"Brett Favre is Overrated" (1 Viewer)

[Maven]

Thought this was interesting...

http://www.bbnflstats.com/2008/07/brett-favre-is-overrated.html

he Brett Favre retirement drama is back in full swing. I don't blame him one bit for wanting to play another year, but despite the resurgent season he had in 2007, he's not the quarterback everyone thinks he is. Chances are he wouldn't have nearly as good a year as last year, especially if he goes to another team. In this article, I'll explain why.

I suddenly became a huge Brett Favre fan last year. My fantasy football draft seemed to be going well and I was excited to have Marc Bulger as my starting QB. But as the draft dragged on, I had to leave for an appointment. For my last few picks, I left instructions with a fellow team owner. One of them was to grab the top ranked remaining QB in round 15 as my backup, who turned out to be Favre. As the Rams disintegrated in the early weeks of the season, I was forced to plug in the rapidly aging Favre, who then went on to have a fantastic year and carry my team into my league's championship game.

But he didn't really have a fantastic year. His receivers did.

The Packers receivers racked up more yards after catch (YAC) than any other corps in the NFL, even the Moss-Welker-Stallworth squad in New England. On a per-pass basis, Brett Favre's passing statistics were extremely inflated by the abilities of his receivers. In fact, 52% of his passing yards came from YAC, second (tied) only to Kansas City's defenseless Brodie Croyle.

But getting lots of YAC is a skill you say. You say there is some special quality of a QB that allows his receivers to gain lots of YAC. It actually has far, far more to do with the receiver than the QB. No matter how we measure QB accuracy, there is scant evidence of a positive correlation between a QB's precision and his receivers' YAC.

YAC is actually a function of two primary factors: receiver ability and what type of pass is thrown. Getting YAC appears to be a persisting skill from year to year for receivers. Receivers who rack up a lot of yards one year will tend to get a lot the next. The correlation from year to year is far stronger for receivers than for QBs, an indication that the skill lies with the pass catcher, not the thrower.

Additionally, YAC is determined by what kind of pass is thrown. Very difficult passes, like those "into traffic" or deep out routes (or touchdowns) tend to get little or no YAC. But easy passes like screens, flares, and "dump-offs" get very large amounts of YAC. Think of a flare or screen pass that is caught at about the line of scrimmage. The yardage would be nearly all YAC.

Ironically, the worse the quarterback, the more YAC he'll probably get. The QBs with the most YAC per pass last year included Croyle, Favre, the once-great-but-ancient Vinnie Testaverde, Brian Griese, Joey Harrington and Josh McCown--not good company.

Guys who can't throw deep and accurate passes accumulate YAC. Consider this situation. Your team is leading the Colts late in the 4th quarter and Peyton Manning needs to quickly move into field goal range. He'll pick apart your defense with deep sideline passes even though the pass defenders know that's where the ball is going. Guys like Boller, Harrington, Carr can only dump off to RBs over the middle or behind the line of scrimmage, then call the last time out. They might get plenty of yards, much of it as YAC, but it won't help their teams win.

Every drop-back for Brett Favre netted only 3.8 yards, not including sacks and interceptions. That ranks 19th in the NFL for all QBs in 2007, behind guys like Boller, Pennington, and Frerotte. (This doesn't even count Favre's worst game of the year, late in December against the Bears when he was outgunned by Kyle Orton.)

I'm not saying he's awful, just that he's very overrated. He's my age, so I'm truly amazed by his durability and have respect for a competitor of his caliber. But whatever team ends up with him in 2008 will probably be very disappointed.

The table below lists 2007 QBs according to their total performance (until the final week of the season, not including receiver YAC. AY/A is "Air Yards per Attempt"--passing yards per attempt without YAC. +WP16 is the estimated wins added above average for each QB. Click on the table headers to sort.

Rank Quarterback QBRat Att Yds Int Rush Yds Sk Yds Fum AY/A %YAC +WP16

1 Brady 119.7 503 4235 6 29 91 107 4 4.9 42 2.48

2 Garrard 101.6 307 2310 2 45 166 91 3 4.8 37 2.21

3 Manning P 95.2 464 3634 14 19 -4 122 5 4.9 37 1.29

4 Anderson 85.8 459 3384 14 30 64 100 5 4.5 38 0.95

5 Romo 101.0 462 3868 17 25 116 166 9 4.9 41 0.89

6 Schaub 87.2 289 2241 9 17 52 126 7 5.0 36 0.87

7 Roethlisberger 104.1 404 3154 11 35 204 347 9 5.2 34 0.86

8 Cutler 90.8 398 3096 12 41 163 119 8 4.3 44 0.46

9 Garcia 93.6 307 2244 4 34 116 98 3 3.7 50 0.44

10 Palmer 86.2 522 3700 17 22 11 119 5 4.3 40 0.36

11 Hasselbeck 92.0 510 3620 10 35 68 183 8 4.0 44 0.17

12 Brees 92.1 550 3819 15 22 53 89 7 3.8 45 0.11

13 Favre 97.7 492 3905 13 25 -9 89 8 3.8 52 -0.16

14 Warner 87.6 360 2748 15 13 -4 140 11 4.7 38 -0.22

15 Kitna 84.6 497 3707 17 21 55 304 15 4.7 37 -0.26

16 McNabb 86.8 397 2716 6 43 199 192 7 3.4 50 -0.33

17 Campbell 77.6 417 2700 11 36 185 110 13 3.6 44 -0.44

18 Jackson 69.6 222 1516 10 42 180 47 3 3.6 47 -0.58

19 Pennington 85.8 228 1501 7 18 27 142 3 4.1 38 -0.61

20 Boller 75.2 275 1743 10 19 89 159 5 4.0 37 -0.74

21 Young 70.1 342 2223 16 82 375 132 7 3.5 46 -0.92

22 Edwards 75.6 213 1336 5 9 25 71 2 3.1 51 -0.94

23 Bulger 71.4 353 2216 13 9 13 248 6 4.1 35 -1.11

24 Manning E 72.6 482 2974 17 24 56 186 7 3.5 43 -1.11

25 Losman 76.9 175 1204 6 20 110 103 4 3.4 50 -1.21

26 Rivers 80.0 412 2828 15 26 31 153 10 3.7 46 -1.22

27 Culpepper 78.0 186 1331 5 20 40 130 8 4.0 44 -1.24

28 Harrington 77.2 348 2215 8 14 33 192 0 3.0 52 -1.26

29 Smith 57.2 193 914 4 13 89 121 6 3.1 35 -1.43

30 Lemon 69.9 247 1479 6 25 86 120 6 3.0 50 -1.52

31 Clemens 59.0 225 1414 10 19 93 125 4 3.4 46 -1.80

32 McNair 73.9 205 1113 4 10 32 85 8 2.8 49 -2.02

33 Huard 72.6 296 1952 13 9 -1 204 4 3.6 45 -2.03

34 Grossman 66.4 225 1411 7 14 27 198 6 3.5 44 -2.03

35 Griese 75.6 262 1803 12 13 28 114 6 3.3 52 -2.22

36 Testaverde 65.8 172 952 6 8 23 46 3 2.6 52 -2.24

37 Frerotte 62.0 162 1010 11 6 3 59 3 3.9 38 -2.34

38 McCown 68.6 182 1105 11 29 143 78 10 3.0 51 -3.14

39 Croyle 71.7 169 963 5 5 16 72 4 1.8 68 -3.57

40 Dilfer 55.1 219 1166 12 10 25 182 8 3.0 43 -3.87

 

[Pictus Cat]

The Bears adding KJ, and possibly Brett and I think they should go after Bentley.

Team "They don't respect you"

The article was interesting. Jennings does have that YAC ability, which is probably what those plays were designed to do.

Just because a team may not have a player like Jennings, doesn't mean Brett Farve would not use the recievers he has to their ability.

 

[BigRed]

Of COURSE it's interesting. It's a Favre thread!!!

:trumpets:

Keep em bumped!

 

[jurb26]

Of COURSE it's interesting. It's a Favre thread!!!:trumpets:Keep em bumped!

Well, most people still haven't gotten enough of Favre. I mean he only has 11 stories/links on page one of NFL.com and at least two stories/links on every other major sports web site on the internet. How dare you get tired of it!

 

[DawnBTVS]

Any idea how his 2007 RAC (or YAC) compared to his "decline" years of 2006 and 2005?

 

[RJS113]

I competely disagree with the article. The Packers receivers were able to get so many yards after the catch because of Favre's ability to hit them in stride.

 

[Banger]

Ya, Favre has no impact on the wr's and his ability to hit them in stride. Silly article. So he has garbage for wr's for a few years with the exception of Driver and is criticized then his team has a breakthrough year and it's due to his wr's. Lets see how great Rodgers is this year with those same wr's......

 

[Tau837]

I competely disagree with the article. The Packers receivers were able to get so many yards after the catch because of Favre's ability to hit them in stride.

That, and the nature of the playcalling.

 

[Tau837]

Ya, Favre has no impact on the wr's and his ability to hit them in stride. Silly article. So he has garbage for wr's for a few years with the exception of Driver and is criticized then his team has a breakthrough year and it's due to his wr's. Lets see how great Rodgers is this year with those same wr's......

 

[FreeBaGeL]

I've been saying this all offseason.

Look people, the guy SUCKED for two seasons, then magically at the age of 38 he remembers how to play football?

Even at the beginning of the year, while a vast improvement over the prior two years, he didn't really hit his stride until Ryan Grant stepped in. Jennings made some amazing long touchdowns out of short passes, and few had to do with him being hit in stride.

Odd coincidence.

 

[Tau837]

I've been saying this all offseason.Look people, the guy SUCKED for two seasons, then magically at the age of 38 he remembers how to play football?Even at the beginning of the year, while a vast improvement over the prior two years, he didn't really hit his stride until Ryan Grant stepped in. Jennings made some amazing long touchdowns out of short passes, and few had to do with him being hit in stride.Odd coincidence.

So they won't miss a beat with Rodgers this year, then, right?

 

[Phase of the Game]

I've been saying this all offseason.Look people, the guy SUCKED for two seasons, then magically at the age of 38 he remembers how to play football?Even at the beginning of the year, while a vast improvement over the prior two years, he didn't really hit his stride until Ryan Grant stepped in. Jennings made some amazing long touchdowns out of short passes, and few had to do with him being hit in stride.Odd coincidence.

If you watched the Packers every game for the last 3 years especially last year and this is your observation then you need to go back to 1st grade.

 

[Tecmo]

not many qbs can get rid of the ball to the right guy so quick. Favre made that spread offense work, not the receivers, imho

 

[FreeBaGeL]

So what happened in '05 and '06 then? What is it about the age of 38 that makes a lightbulb go off in a guy's head?

 

[Phase of the Game]

So what happened in '05 and '06 then? What is it about the age of 38 that makes a lightbulb go off in a guy's head?

You should only hope that you get a lightbulb in your head.

 

[Interseptopus]

I've been saying this all offseason.

Look people, the guy SUCKED for two seasons, then magically at the age of 38 he remembers how to play football?

Even at the beginning of the year, while a vast improvement over the prior two years, he didn't really hit his stride until Ryan Grant stepped in. Jennings made some amazing long touchdowns out of short passes, and few had to do with him being hit in stride.

Odd coincidence.

If you watched the Packers every game last season and this is your observation then you need to go back to 1st grade.

Favre made great plays, he also made big mistakes. He was a high risk/reward player; a gunslinger. I personally think this article has some good points- Favre's stats seem to be "best ever" because of a talented WR bunch as well as good playcalling and a switch to this spread offense that some teams are going to now. That offense was FUN to watch for the first time in a long time that I can remember. Packers had the deep ball (and I'm more excited with Driver saying Rodgers' deep ball is better than Bretts!), they had the dink and dunk down to perfection, and they had a RB to come in and bring some ground game. Yes, we all know, players do better when surrounded with more talent. Congrats, you just unearthed an idea that has been discussed forever. Put Favre on the 2007 Dolphins and he's not as good as he was with GB. Wow, BIG observation... but less we forget, it's not JUST the surrounding players that make the QB... Leinart is surrounded by the BEST 1-2 bunch at WR in the league, as well as an excellent RB. How well has he done? If you mean to tell me that you put David Carr in at QB for GB last season and he has an equal year to Brett Favre, then you are of such stupidity that I'm surprised you remember how to sign in to post here.

Yes, I agree, a lot of Brett's success last year versus previous 2-3 years has to do with his surrounding cast. He had a healthy, young, good RB in Grant. He had the best group (WR1 to WR5) of WRs he's had his entire career, and they used every single one of those WRs. Yes, the OL is finally matured and gelled to a point where they are top 1/4 of the league. BUT, you cannot tell me (and no one has yet to answer this from others asking) that GB will not miss a beat with Rodgers in at QB next year. I think this team is still a 10 win team, and Rodgers will have an excellent year, but no matter what, that does not take away Favre's ability to throw the ball far and to throw the ball accurately. It's absolutely ludacris to think that the only reason Favre posted career numbers was because of his surrounding players...

At the same time, you CANNOT say that the ONLY reason for his success is himself. It is a mixture of both. The fact that this thread takes one side, suggesting that any QB could have posted such great numbers, is insane.

Wasted 10 minutes skimming over the original post and responses, and another 5 writing this response. I expect an appology for those 15 minutes of my life that I will never get back

 

[FreeBaGeL]

I've been saying this all offseason.Look people, the guy SUCKED for two seasons, then magically at the age of 38 he remembers how to play football?Even at the beginning of the year, while a vast improvement over the prior two years, he didn't really hit his stride until Ryan Grant stepped in. Jennings made some amazing long touchdowns out of short passes, and few had to do with him being hit in stride.Odd coincidence.

So they won't miss a beat with Rodgers this year, then, right?

Sure they'll miss a beat, they've got a first-time starter coming in, but I don't expect it to be anything like most people expect. At this stage in his career, he's a decent QB, but not the top 5 type guy that his numbers indicated.It gets old hearing about how GB's offense is going to suffer a huge setback this year because they lost a "hall of fame QB". This is not Brett Favre circa 1996 we're talking about here. The guy was nowhere near that level of player the last few seasons and I don't think there's any one player you could pull off that GB offense that would make them fall apart at the seams like many seem to be so scared of.

 

[Tecmo]

Favre threw so many INTs in 05 and 06 because he didn't get the proper protection. He forced way too many throws because a defender was about to close in. That was my conclusion from the games I saw.

Personally, he looks like a ### when he doesn't get good protection. Particularly in 05, the 29 INTs were ridiculous of a player with his talent. I felt like he made a way bigger issue out of his line than what was needed, he could of threw a lot of balls away instead of forcing ill-adviced throws.

But in no way is Rogers going to come in and do what Favre did just because the receivers can YAC. Favre can see the field and fire off decisions very quickly. So quickly that it make a blitz look like a fatal mistake.

 

[Interseptopus]

I've been saying this all offseason.

Look people, the guy SUCKED for two seasons, then magically at the age of 38 he remembers how to play football?

Even at the beginning of the year, while a vast improvement over the prior two years, he didn't really hit his stride until Ryan Grant stepped in. Jennings made some amazing long touchdowns out of short passes, and few had to do with him being hit in stride.

Odd coincidence.

So they won't miss a beat with Rodgers this year, then, right?

Sure they'll miss a beat, they've got a first-time starter coming in, but I don't expect it to be anything like most people expect. At this stage in his career, he's a decent QB, but not the top 5 type guy that his numbers indicated.It gets old hearing about how GB's offense is going to suffer a huge setback this year because they lost a "hall of fame QB". This is not Brett Favre circa 1996 we're talking about here. The guy was nowhere near that level of player the last few seasons and I don't think there's any one player you could pull off that GB offense that would make them fall apart at the seams like many seem to be so scared of.

I like what's bolded. I agree 100%I think I agree with all of what you're saying, but at the same time I think it's foolish to call Brett Favre "overrated" because the offense is so solid that he did well. He's a great NFL QB. Yes, maybe not top 5, but top 10 last yearwith an average offense. He's been on the lower half of top 10 for a long time if I'm not mistaken. I just think it's ridiculous to brand him with a title such as overrated. That's just asking for trouble. Favre was great- he made plays, and was very talented. He didn't peak at 38. I think everyone can admit that. And I agree that the offense won't drop off to below the top half of the league with Favre gone. But at the same time you miss that leadership, that guy to turn to in the 4th quarter for a comeback or when you need a big play. The intangibles are endless that leave with Favre. It's more than pass strength and accuracy

We need to get out of this Madden mentallity and realize there's more to a QB than 95 strength 95 accuracy...

 

[msommer]

So, can any one answer why Favre's WRs necessarily regress this year?

 

[bcr8f]

So, can any one answer why Favre's WRs necessarily regress this year?

That site said GB was the luckiest team in the NFl. Good luck with that. The wideouts will not regress.

 

[bcr8f]

Favre threw so many INTs in 05 and 06 because he didn't get the proper protection. He forced way too many throws because a defender was about to close in. That was my conclusion from the games I saw. Personally, he looks like a ### when he doesn't get good protection. Particularly in 05, the 29 INTs were ridiculous of a player with his talent. I felt like he made a way bigger issue out of his line than what was needed, he could of threw a lot of balls away instead of forcing ill-adviced throws. But in no way is Rogers going to come in and do what Favre did just because the receivers can YAC. Favre can see the field and fire off decisions very quickly. So quickly that it make a blitz look like a fatal mistake.

McCarthy is tailoring the offense so Rodgers can do the same. He looked very good against Dallas. Favre's problem with interceptions is he gets bored with the offense and starts firing bombs at will. Also look at the Dallas game for this. Sure he could throw the ball away but he likes threading ball between defenders and defenses know it.

 

[sho nuff]

I've been saying this all offseason.Look people, the guy SUCKED for two seasons, then magically at the age of 38 he remembers how to play football?Even at the beginning of the year, while a vast improvement over the prior two years, he didn't really hit his stride until Ryan Grant stepped in. Jennings made some amazing long touchdowns out of short passes, and few had to do with him being hit in stride.Odd coincidence.

He did not totally suck in 06...but nice try.Did not hit his stride until Grant stepped in?You might want to look back to the start of last year and what they did throwing the ball with no running game (and Jennings missed the first several games).

 

[sho nuff]

So what happened in '05 and '06 then? What is it about the age of 38 that makes a lightbulb go off in a guy's head?

05...several things. His play was pretty bad...some of that came from Walker and Green being hurt...a terrible Oline in front of him...Driver dinged up...and throwing to Robert Ferguson. Now...his play was not great either...he forced things due to nobody being open and it burnt them. That and Sherm was still the coach and let him get away with that kind of stuff.06...you started to see more control under McCarthy...they still had no running game and once again a newly revamped Oline that was young and struggled early. He still forced things a bit too often.07...it came together...he bought in to McCarthy's system and did not force things nearly as often. The short passes set up the longer ones...the oline continued to improve...and then Grant stepped in and the offense was really firing well.

 

[Banger]

So what happened in '05 and '06 then? What is it about the age of 38 that makes a lightbulb go off in a guy's head?

Besides Driver who did he have to throw the ball to? WR or TE? They were absolute garbage, then he gets some decent talent, yet still young and raw and then all the sudden the team blossoms...hmmmm...and c'mon with this talented bunch of WR's stuff... they have some talent but they aren't Harrison/Wayne, aren't Fitz/Boldin, aren't Winslow/Edwards, aren't CJ/Housh/Henry, etc. They have some decent talent but they aren't great by any stretch.

 

[Banger]

Favre threw so many INTs in 05 and 06 because he didn't get the proper protection. He forced way too many throws because a defender was about to close in. That was my conclusion from the games I saw. Personally, he looks like a ### when he doesn't get good protection. Particularly in 05, the 29 INTs were ridiculous of a player with his talent. I felt like he made a way bigger issue out of his line than what was needed, he could of threw a lot of balls away instead of forcing ill-adviced throws. But in no way is Rogers going to come in and do what Favre did just because the receivers can YAC. Favre can see the field and fire off decisions very quickly. So quickly that it make a blitz look like a fatal mistake.

and he had one target (Driver) which everyone watching knew he was going to force it to every time...

 

[Tau837]

I've been saying this all offseason.Look people, the guy SUCKED for two seasons, then magically at the age of 38 he remembers how to play football?Even at the beginning of the year, while a vast improvement over the prior two years, he didn't really hit his stride until Ryan Grant stepped in. Jennings made some amazing long touchdowns out of short passes, and few had to do with him being hit in stride.Odd coincidence.

He did not totally suck in 06...but nice try.Did not hit his stride until Grant stepped in?You might want to look back to the start of last year and what they did throwing the ball with no running game (and Jennings missed the first several games).

To be fair, Grant "stepped in" in their 7th game last season. Through that point, Favre arguably had 3 poor games and 3 good games. And Jennings missed the first two games (and the last game) of the regular season... not several games.That said, I agree there were some mitigating circumstances in 2005 & 2006. Walker got hurt in the first game in 2005, leaving Ferguson and Chatman as the #2 & #3 WRs all season... ugh. And they were rebuilding their OL and struggling in the running game that entire time. It is no coincidence that Favre attempted more passes in 2005 & 2006 than in any other seasons in his career, despite the fact that he wasn't playing as well as he had historically - the team was in bad shape and needed to put it on Favre's shoulders.All players, including all HOF players, are to a degree made by the system they play in, the coaching decisions made, and the personnel surrounding them. The fact that Favre's performance improved as the situation around him improved is not an indictment of him. I suspect that a lot of Green Bay fans will be looking back in 5 years realizing they took Favre for granted for a long time.

 

[Interseptopus]

and c'mon with this talented bunch of WR's stuff... they have some talent but they aren't Harrison/Wayne, aren't Fitz/Boldin, aren't Winslow/Edwards, aren't CJ/Housh/Henry, etc. They have some decent talent but they aren't great by any stretch.

So you don't think Driver/Jennings/J. Nelson/J. Jones/R. Martin are the best 1-5 WR group in the league??? Driver is about as consistant as they come. Yes, Favre made Driver more than Driver made Favre, but that doesn't take away from his dependability. Oh yeah, he was a probowler last year.... but that doesn't mean anything does it?

Jennings SHOULD have been in the probowl, but he missed too many games at the start. In 13 (THIRTEEN!) games he posted 12 TDs, 920 yards, on 53 catches. Average that out over 16 games and you get 65 catches for 1132 yards, and 14.7 TDs... pretty impressive.

Nelson is an amazing #3 WR (

... it's a video of Nelson versus Aqib Talib, who was said to be the most NFL-ready-now CB the NFL has seen in a long time). He is going to be a good WR in this leagueJames Jones is a legitimate #2 WR in the NFL. Watching him last year, he's got the makings to start for most teams in the NFL at the #2 WR position.

Ruvell Martin is better than any WR5 out there! This guy is the best run blocker at WR I've ever seen, and he is the wild card-- No one expects him to do much offensively, but when you go 5 wide, he's the guy teams cannot match up against and he comes up with a big play. Show me a WR5 last year who put up better numbers than 16/242/4. Not impressive numbers for a WR alone, but amazing for a WR5. Considering many WR5s in the league has ZERO receptions, I'd say I'm confident putting my money where my mouth is and betting that no other WR5 in the league did better than him

Oh yeah, and check your facts- HENRY was RELEASED from CIN...

But okay, I'll play along. Wayne/Harrison/Gonzalez I'll even give you... great top 3 WRs. #4-5:

#4: Aromashodu. Who? Oh yeah, a 7th round draft pick in 2006. Really not worth mentioning. Not sure anyone but Colt fans knew he existed. Oh boy, #5 should be even better

#5: Roy Hall or Pierre Garcon. 5th and 6th round draft picks in 2007 and 2008. Neither has caught an NFL pass

Need I go on to break down ARI, CLE, and CIN's WRs?

Bottom line is that This group of WRs 1-5 beats out any other group 1-5 because of its depth. James Jones is a #2 WR on most other NFL teams. Driver and Jennings are legitimate #2 WRs. It's like a poor man's Harrison/Wayne. But with better talent behind them.

 

[Interseptopus]

So what happened in '05 and '06 then? What is it about the age of 38 that makes a lightbulb go off in a guy's head?

and c'mon with this talented bunch of WR's stuff... they have some talent but they aren't Harrison/Wayne, aren't Fitz/Boldin, aren't Winslow/Edwards, aren't CJ/Housh/Henry, etc. They have some decent talent but they aren't great by any stretch.

IND:Wayne: 104/ 1510/10

Harrison: 20/247/1 (injured, only played 5 games. Average his stats out for 16 and he gets: 64/790/3 TDs)

Gonzalez: 37/576/3

Aromashodu: 7/96/0

*Thorpe: 12/70/1

Total: 224/3040/17

ARI:

Fitzgerald: 100/1409/10

Boldin: 71/853/9

*Bryant Johnson: 46/528/2

Urban: 22/329/2

Morey 8/131/0

Total: 247/3432/23

CLE:

Edwards: 90/1289/16

Jurevicius: 50/614/3

Tim Carter: 8/117/1

Joshua Cribbs: 3/37/0

(NO WR5 had any catches for CLE last season)

Stallworth with NE: 46/697/3... hardly impressive

Winslow is NOT a WR, therefore you cannot include him in a WR conversation.

Total: 197/2754/23

(and this is counting stats Stallworth got from a different QB in a different system)

CIN:

C. Johnson: 93/1440/8

Houshmandzadeh: 112/1143/12

*Chris Henry: 21/343/2

Antonio Chatman: 19/149/1

Glenn Holt: 16/143/1

Total: 258/3218/25

GB:

Driver: 82/1048/2

Jennings: 53/920/12 (injured, move that out to 16 games and you get: 65/1132/15)

James Jones: 47/676/2

*Koren Robinson: 21/241/1 (sat out the first 7 games. average that out: 37/428/2

Ruvell Martin: 16/242/4

Total: 247/3526/25

*No longer with the team or is not listed on the 2008 Depth Chart

So of those teams you mentioned, here are the ranks:

Receptions:

CIN with 258

GB with 247

ARI with 247

IND with 224

CLE with 197

Yardage:

GB with 3528

ARI with 3432

CIN with 3219

IND with 3040

CLE with 2754

TDs:

GB with 25

CIN with 25

ARI with 23

CLE with 23

IND with 17

So final average rankings:

GB: 1.3

CIN: 1.7

ARI: 2.3

CLE: 4.3

IND: 4.7

So, GB's WRs last season were better than ALL of the teams you mentioned.

Sure, their total salaries are probably at least half as much as any of those other teams.

Sure, they aren't as sexy as a 1st round pick, which every one of those teams has.

Sure, they aren't in the news as much as those other guys

BUT they get the job done and post excellent stats without being flashy about it. Punch in and punch out. It's no surprise someone like you would not realize the talent this group has, and how 1-5 they have arguabley the best WR corps in the league.

I'm sure NE's stats would trump GBs, but NE cheats

Sure, 1-2 Driver/Jennings doesn't stack up with a combo like Fitz/Boldin, but luckily for GB and my argument, GB doesn't use 2 WR sets often. They don't depend on their 1 and 2 WRs to carry the team. They run 3, 4, 5 WR sets. And also, I never said that Driver and Jennings are one of the best combos in the league. In fact, no one in this thread has. I've said that they have the best GROUP of WRs in the league... which I just showed stacks up there with some of the best WR teams in the league. I'm sure NE would out perform GB, but this season I'm not too sure- they lost Stallworth and although he's not a stud, he is a wheel on the bus that was so successful last season.

 

[sho nuff]

Stats are nice...but I would trade Driver and Jennings right now in a heartbeat for Boldin and Fitz.

 

[Tau837]

So what happened in '05 and '06 then? What is it about the age of 38 that makes a lightbulb go off in a guy's head?

and c'mon with this talented bunch of WR's stuff... they have some talent but they aren't Harrison/Wayne, aren't Fitz/Boldin, aren't Winslow/Edwards, aren't CJ/Housh/Henry, etc. They have some decent talent but they aren't great by any stretch.

IND:Wayne: 104/ 1510/10

Harrison: 20/247/1 (injured, only played 5 games. Average his stats out for 16 and he gets: 64/790/3 TDs)

Gonzalez: 37/576/3

Aromashodu: 7/96/0

*Thorpe: 12/70/1

Total: 224/3040/17

ARI:

Fitzgerald: 100/1409/10

Boldin: 71/853/9

*Bryant Johnson: 46/528/2

Urban: 22/329/2

Morey 8/131/0

Total: 247/3432/23

CLE:

Edwards: 90/1289/16

Jurevicius: 50/614/3

Tim Carter: 8/117/1

Joshua Cribbs: 3/37/0

(NO WR5 had any catches for CLE last season)

Stallworth with NE: 46/697/3... hardly impressive

Winslow is NOT a WR, therefore you cannot include him in a WR conversation.

Total: 197/2754/23

(and this is counting stats Stallworth got from a different QB in a different system)

CIN:

C. Johnson: 93/1440/8

Houshmandzadeh: 112/1143/12

*Chris Henry: 21/343/2

Antonio Chatman: 19/149/1

Glenn Holt: 16/143/1

Total: 258/3218/25

GB:

Driver: 82/1048/2

Jennings: 53/920/12 (injured, move that out to 16 games and you get: 65/1132/15)

James Jones: 47/676/2

*Koren Robinson: 21/241/1 (sat out the first 7 games. average that out: 37/428/2

Ruvell Martin: 16/242/4

Total: 247/3526/25

*No longer with the team or is not listed on the 2008 Depth Chart

So of those teams you mentioned, here are the ranks:

Receptions:

CIN with 258

GB with 247

ARI with 247

IND with 224

CLE with 197

Yardage:

GB with 3528

ARI with 3432

CIN with 3219

IND with 3040

CLE with 2754

TDs:

GB with 25

CIN with 25

ARI with 23

CLE with 23

IND with 17

So final average rankings:

GB: 1.3

CIN: 1.7

ARI: 2.3

CLE: 4.3

IND: 4.7

So, GB's WRs last season were better than ALL of the teams you mentioned.

Sure, their total salaries are probably at least half as much as any of those other teams.

Sure, they aren't as sexy as a 1st round pick, which every one of those teams has.

Sure, they aren't in the news as much as those other guys

BUT they get the job done and post excellent stats without being flashy about it. Punch in and punch out. It's no surprise someone like you would not realize the talent this group has, and how 1-5 they have arguabley the best WR corps in the league.

I'm sure NE's stats would trump GBs, but NE cheats

Sure, 1-2 Driver/Jennings doesn't stack up with a combo like Fitz/Boldin, but luckily for GB and my argument, GB doesn't use 2 WR sets often. They don't depend on their 1 and 2 WRs to carry the team. They run 3, 4, 5 WR sets. And also, I never said that Driver and Jennings are one of the best combos in the league. In fact, no one in this thread has. I've said that they have the best GROUP of WRs in the league... which I just showed stacks up there with some of the best WR teams in the league. I'm sure NE would out perform GB, but this season I'm not too sure- they lost Stallworth and although he's not a stud, he is a wheel on the bus that was so successful last season.

This whole analysis is flawed. First, you can't effectively compare a team like GB that is WR-focused to other teams with great tight ends (like Cleveland and Indy) and ignore the TE position. To a lesser degree, this is also true with the receiving ability of the teams' RBs. Second, you have to consider context, like how many attempts the teams had. Just because Green Bay threw more often to its WRs does not mean they are a better group.

 

[Interseptopus]

Stats are nice...but I would trade Driver and Jennings right now in a heartbeat for Boldin and Fitz.

100% agree. I think everyone would have to agree with that

 

[Chase Stuart]

So what happened in '05 and '06 then? What is it about the age of 38 that makes a lightbulb go off in a guy's head?

You should only hope that you get a lightbulb in your head.

Please turn the tool factor way down.

 

[Interseptopus]

So what happened in '05 and '06 then? What is it about the age of 38 that makes a lightbulb go off in a guy's head?

and c'mon with this talented bunch of WR's stuff... they have some talent but they aren't Harrison/Wayne, aren't Fitz/Boldin, aren't Winslow/Edwards, aren't CJ/Housh/Henry, etc. They have some decent talent but they aren't great by any stretch.

IND:Wayne: 104/ 1510/10

Harrison: 20/247/1 (injured, only played 5 games. Average his stats out for 16 and he gets: 64/790/3 TDs)

Gonzalez: 37/576/3

Aromashodu: 7/96/0

*Thorpe: 12/70/1

Total: 224/3040/17

ARI:

Fitzgerald: 100/1409/10

Boldin: 71/853/9

*Bryant Johnson: 46/528/2

Urban: 22/329/2

Morey 8/131/0

Total: 247/3432/23

CLE:

Edwards: 90/1289/16

Jurevicius: 50/614/3

Tim Carter: 8/117/1

Joshua Cribbs: 3/37/0

(NO WR5 had any catches for CLE last season)

Stallworth with NE: 46/697/3... hardly impressive

Winslow is NOT a WR, therefore you cannot include him in a WR conversation.

Total: 197/2754/23

(and this is counting stats Stallworth got from a different QB in a different system)

CIN:

C. Johnson: 93/1440/8

Houshmandzadeh: 112/1143/12

*Chris Henry: 21/343/2

Antonio Chatman: 19/149/1

Glenn Holt: 16/143/1

Total: 258/3218/25

GB:

Driver: 82/1048/2

Jennings: 53/920/12 (injured, move that out to 16 games and you get: 65/1132/15)

James Jones: 47/676/2

*Koren Robinson: 21/241/1 (sat out the first 7 games. average that out: 37/428/2

Ruvell Martin: 16/242/4

Total: 247/3526/25

*No longer with the team or is not listed on the 2008 Depth Chart

So of those teams you mentioned, here are the ranks:

Receptions:

CIN with 258

GB with 247

ARI with 247

IND with 224

CLE with 197

Yardage:

GB with 3528

ARI with 3432

CIN with 3219

IND with 3040

CLE with 2754

TDs:

GB with 25

CIN with 25

ARI with 23

CLE with 23

IND with 17

So final average rankings:

GB: 1.3

CIN: 1.7

ARI: 2.3

CLE: 4.3

IND: 4.7

So, GB's WRs last season were better than ALL of the teams you mentioned.

Sure, their total salaries are probably at least half as much as any of those other teams.

Sure, they aren't as sexy as a 1st round pick, which every one of those teams has.

Sure, they aren't in the news as much as those other guys

BUT they get the job done and post excellent stats without being flashy about it. Punch in and punch out. It's no surprise someone like you would not realize the talent this group has, and how 1-5 they have arguabley the best WR corps in the league.

I'm sure NE's stats would trump GBs, but NE cheats

Sure, 1-2 Driver/Jennings doesn't stack up with a combo like Fitz/Boldin, but luckily for GB and my argument, GB doesn't use 2 WR sets often. They don't depend on their 1 and 2 WRs to carry the team. They run 3, 4, 5 WR sets. And also, I never said that Driver and Jennings are one of the best combos in the league. In fact, no one in this thread has. I've said that they have the best GROUP of WRs in the league... which I just showed stacks up there with some of the best WR teams in the league. I'm sure NE would out perform GB, but this season I'm not too sure- they lost Stallworth and although he's not a stud, he is a wheel on the bus that was so successful last season.

This whole analysis is flawed. First, you can't effectively compare a team like GB that is WR-focused to other teams with great tight ends (like Cleveland and Indy) and ignore the TE position. To a lesser degree, this is also true with the receiving ability of the teams' RBs. Second, you have to consider context, like how many attempts the teams had. Just because Green Bay threw more often to its WRs does not mean they are a better group.

Look at the bold way up top. I was responding to another's criticism of GB's WRs. This is a WR comparison only, therefore I exlcuded TEs.Also, my only point was to defend my earlier of saying that GB has one of the best WR groups 1-5 in the league. This guy "Banger" offered a suggestion that GBs WRs are not as good as other teams

Yes, I know when comparing WRs you must compare not only attempts but also what style of offense they run. CLE looks to their Te more and runs 2 WR sets. ARI runs 2 WR sets. IND and GB run the spread. CIN I didn't get to watch but judging by their stats I'd say they run a lot of 2 WR sets with some 3.

But I'm not talking about the best offense in the league. I'm talking about the best WRs 1-5. GB uses their WRs 1-5, inflating their stats when compared to a team that does not, but if they didn't have the talent I highly doubt they would have used that same type of offense (McCarthy's first year in 2006 they did not, but in 2007 they had K. Robinson and James Jones, creating the talent to do so and it worked).

It all comes down to talent versus opportunity (nature versus nurture). You can argue that the reason those guys look good is because they are in a good opportunity. Also, you can argue that they are strictly talented so GB used an offense that would use their talents. I think it's a combination of both. I think you have good WRs at 3-5 and by using this spread offense they were able to flourish. Put Joshua Cribbs (CLE) on GB and I doubt he's as successful as Koren Robinson, James Jones, Ruvell Martin. Sure, he posts better numbers than he did with CLE, but if you don't have the talent to begin with you won't see the ball very often

 

[Flash]

I've been saying this all offseason.Look people, the guy SUCKED for two seasons, then magically at the age of 38 he remembers how to play football?Even at the beginning of the year, while a vast improvement over the prior two years, he didn't really hit his stride until Ryan Grant stepped in. Jennings made some amazing long touchdowns out of short passes, and few had to do with him being hit in stride.Odd coincidence.

You are quite the football God. Look at em all come out of the woodwork now...... Funny as hell.

 

[Aaronstory]

Lets see how great Rodgers is this year with those same wr's......

He'll be pretty good.

 

[Banger]

So what happened in '05 and '06 then? What is it about the age of 38 that makes a lightbulb go off in a guy's head?

and c'mon with this talented bunch of WR's stuff... they have some talent but they aren't Harrison/Wayne, aren't Fitz/Boldin, aren't Winslow/Edwards, aren't CJ/Housh/Henry, etc. They have some decent talent but they aren't great by any stretch.

IND:Wayne: 104/ 1510/10

Harrison: 20/247/1 (injured, only played 5 games. Average his stats out for 16 and he gets: 64/790/3 TDs)

Gonzalez: 37/576/3

Aromashodu: 7/96/0

*Thorpe: 12/70/1

Total: 224/3040/17

ARI:

Fitzgerald: 100/1409/10

Boldin: 71/853/9

*Bryant Johnson: 46/528/2

Urban: 22/329/2

Morey 8/131/0

Total: 247/3432/23

CLE:

Edwards: 90/1289/16

Jurevicius: 50/614/3

Tim Carter: 8/117/1

Joshua Cribbs: 3/37/0

(NO WR5 had any catches for CLE last season)

Stallworth with NE: 46/697/3... hardly impressive

Winslow is NOT a WR, therefore you cannot include him in a WR conversation.

Total: 197/2754/23

(and this is counting stats Stallworth got from a different QB in a different system)

CIN:

C. Johnson: 93/1440/8

Houshmandzadeh: 112/1143/12

*Chris Henry: 21/343/2

Antonio Chatman: 19/149/1

Glenn Holt: 16/143/1

Total: 258/3218/25

GB:

Driver: 82/1048/2

Jennings: 53/920/12 (injured, move that out to 16 games and you get: 65/1132/15)

James Jones: 47/676/2

*Koren Robinson: 21/241/1 (sat out the first 7 games. average that out: 37/428/2

Ruvell Martin: 16/242/4

Total: 247/3526/25

*No longer with the team or is not listed on the 2008 Depth Chart

So of those teams you mentioned, here are the ranks:

Receptions:

CIN with 258

GB with 247

ARI with 247

IND with 224

CLE with 197

Yardage:

GB with 3528

ARI with 3432

CIN with 3219

IND with 3040

CLE with 2754

TDs:

GB with 25

CIN with 25

ARI with 23

CLE with 23

IND with 17

So final average rankings:

GB: 1.3

CIN: 1.7

ARI: 2.3

CLE: 4.3

IND: 4.7

So, GB's WRs last season were better than ALL of the teams you mentioned.

Sure, their total salaries are probably at least half as much as any of those other teams.

Sure, they aren't as sexy as a 1st round pick, which every one of those teams has.

Sure, they aren't in the news as much as those other guys

BUT they get the job done and post excellent stats without being flashy about it. Punch in and punch out. It's no surprise someone like you would not realize the talent this group has, and how 1-5 they have arguabley the best WR corps in the league.

I'm sure NE's stats would trump GBs, but NE cheats

Sure, 1-2 Driver/Jennings doesn't stack up with a combo like Fitz/Boldin, but luckily for GB and my argument, GB doesn't use 2 WR sets often. They don't depend on their 1 and 2 WRs to carry the team. They run 3, 4, 5 WR sets. And also, I never said that Driver and Jennings are one of the best combos in the league. In fact, no one in this thread has. I've said that they have the best GROUP of WRs in the league... which I just showed stacks up there with some of the best WR teams in the league. I'm sure NE would out perform GB, but this season I'm not too sure- they lost Stallworth and although he's not a stud, he is a wheel on the bus that was so successful last season.

This whole analysis is flawed. First, you can't effectively compare a team like GB that is WR-focused to other teams with great tight ends (like Cleveland and Indy) and ignore the TE position. To a lesser degree, this is also true with the receiving ability of the teams' RBs. Second, you have to consider context, like how many attempts the teams had. Just because Green Bay threw more often to its WRs does not mean they are a better group.

Look at the bold way up top. I was responding to another's criticism of GB's WRs. This is a WR comparison only, therefore I exlcuded TEs.Also, my only point was to defend my earlier of saying that GB has one of the best WR groups 1-5 in the league. This guy "Banger" offered a suggestion that GBs WRs are not as good as other teams

Yes, I know when comparing WRs you must compare not only attempts but also what style of offense they run. CLE looks to their Te more and runs 2 WR sets. ARI runs 2 WR sets. IND and GB run the spread. CIN I didn't get to watch but judging by their stats I'd say they run a lot of 2 WR sets with some 3.

But I'm not talking about the best offense in the league. I'm talking about the best WRs 1-5. GB uses their WRs 1-5, inflating their stats when compared to a team that does not, but if they didn't have the talent I highly doubt they would have used that same type of offense (McCarthy's first year in 2006 they did not, but in 2007 they had K. Robinson and James Jones, creating the talent to do so and it worked).

It all comes down to talent versus opportunity (nature versus nurture). You can argue that the reason those guys look good is because they are in a good opportunity. Also, you can argue that they are strictly talented so GB used an offense that would use their talents. I think it's a combination of both. I think you have good WRs at 3-5 and by using this spread offense they were able to flourish. Put Joshua Cribbs (CLE) on GB and I doubt he's as successful as Koren Robinson, James Jones, Ruvell Martin. Sure, he posts better numbers than he did with CLE, but if you don't have the talent to begin with you won't see the ball very often

I wasn't criticizing the GB wr's, I thought/think they are a nice group with some talent but there's not a dominant goto wr in the mix. The article that started this thread was referring to the fact that Favre really wasn't a good QB last year and that his stats were greatly inflated due to the play of his wr crew to which I disagree bigtime. Favre made them, they did not make Favre and that was my point. All the stats and analysis are great but they were allowed to show their depth and excel due to Favre's ability and experience to run a 5 wide offense, read the defense and deliver it to the right player in the right spot. The same will not be true if Rodgers is the starter this year (IMO of course)...

 

[ookook]

To answer the issue of whether Favre is overrated, we need to take into account where he is rated.

If all I had to worry about were a single season, how many QBs currrently in the NFL would I prefer to have?

IMHO, about 6 to 8.

That is how many I think would have done better the past three years than he has.

Perhaps someone can name 10 for me that they believe would have done better with what the team had? Go for it!

 

[FavreCo]

I competely disagree with the article. The Packers receivers were able to get so many yards after the catch because of Favre's ability to hit them in stride.

Don't try and talk sense. Let's see. Favre is over-rated. Ok, what's is a 9 TD, 17 INT turd then? Why is it people think that bum is at all capable?

 

[Banger]

I competely disagree with the article. The Packers receivers were able to get so many yards after the catch because of Favre's ability to hit them in stride.

Don't try and talk sense. Let's see. Favre is over-rated. Ok, what's is a 9 TD, 17 INT turd then? Why is it people think that bum is at all capable?

which "turd" are you referring to?

 

[FreeBaGeL]

I've been saying this all offseason.

Look people, the guy SUCKED for two seasons, then magically at the age of 38 he remembers how to play football?

Even at the beginning of the year, while a vast improvement over the prior two years, he didn't really hit his stride until Ryan Grant stepped in. Jennings made some amazing long touchdowns out of short passes, and few had to do with him being hit in stride.

Odd coincidence.

He did not totally suck in 06...but nice try.Did not hit his stride until Grant stepped in?

You might want to look back to the start of last year and what they did throwing the ball with no running game (and Jennings missed the first several games).

Favre (in 2007) when Grant did not start threw for 285 yards and 1.5 touchdowns per game and 6.9ypa.Favre (in 2007) when Grant did start threw for 330 yards and 2.42 touchdowns per game and 8.8ypa.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

So what happened in '05 and '06 then? What is it about the age of 38 that makes a lightbulb go off in a guy's head?

05...several things. His play was pretty bad...some of that came from Walker and Green being hurt...a terrible Oline in front of him...Driver dinged up...and throwing to Robert Ferguson. Now...his play was not great either...he forced things due to nobody being open and it burnt them. That and Sherm was still the coach and let him get away with that kind of stuff.06...you started to see more control under McCarthy...they still had no running game and once again a newly revamped Oline that was young and struggled early. He still forced things a bit too often.07...it came together...he bought in to McCarthy's system and did not force things nearly as often. The short passes set up the longer ones...the oline continued to improve...and then Grant stepped in and the offense was really firing well.

So what happened in '05 and '06 then? What is it about the age of 38 that makes a lightbulb go off in a guy's head?

Besides Driver who did he have to throw the ball to? WR or TE? They were absolute garbage, then he gets some decent talent, yet still young and raw and then all the sudden the team blossoms...hmmmm...and c'mon with this talented bunch of WR's stuff... they have some talent but they aren't Harrison/Wayne, aren't Fitz/Boldin, aren't Winslow/Edwards, aren't CJ/Housh/Henry, etc. They have some decent talent but they aren't great by any stretch.

Favre threw so many INTs in 05 and 06 because he didn't get the proper protection. He forced way too many throws because a defender was about to close in. That was my conclusion from the games I saw. Personally, he looks like a ### when he doesn't get good protection. Particularly in 05, the 29 INTs were ridiculous of a player with his talent. I felt like he made a way bigger issue out of his line than what was needed, he could of threw a lot of balls away instead of forcing ill-adviced throws. But in no way is Rogers going to come in and do what Favre did just because the receivers can YAC. Favre can see the field and fire off decisions very quickly. So quickly that it make a blitz look like a fatal mistake.

and he had one target (Driver) which everyone watching knew he was going to force it to every time...

All players, including all HOF players, are to a degree made by the system they play in, the coaching decisions made, and the personnel surrounding them. The fact that Favre's performance improved as the situation around him improved is not an indictment of him. I suspect that a lot of Green Bay fans will be looking back in 5 years realizing they took Favre for granted for a long time.

So basically what you're all saying is that with poor players surrounding him, he was bad (beyond bad in '05), but when surrounded with talent he did very well.Well c'mon, you've just described half the starting QBs in the NFL.People are acting like GB lost a top tier QB. Favre was once, but not at the age of 38 he wasn't. Top QBs excel no matter the situation. We saw Brady put up great numbers every year no matter what no-name WRs they put around him.The "he stunk when the guys around him sucked, but he was good when the guys around him were good" thing applies to half the QBs out there. In his prime Favre could've carried the guys around him all on his own, he's not that guy anymore, and hasn't been for years.

 

[Zaxxon]

I competely disagree with the article. The Packers receivers were able to get so many yards after the catch because of Favre's ability to hit them in stride.

Ok, what's is a 9 TD, 17 INT turd then? Why is it people think that bum is at all capable?

What language is this written in?

 

[phthalatemagic]

I've been saying this all offseason.

Look people, the guy SUCKED for two seasons, then magically at the age of 38 he remembers how to play football?

Even at the beginning of the year, while a vast improvement over the prior two years, he didn't really hit his stride until Ryan Grant stepped in. Jennings made some amazing long touchdowns out of short passes, and few had to do with him being hit in stride.

Odd coincidence.

He did not totally suck in 06...but nice try.Did not hit his stride until Grant stepped in?

You might want to look back to the start of last year and what they did throwing the ball with no running game (and Jennings missed the first several games).

Favre (in 2007) when Grant did not start threw for 285 yards and 1.5 touchdowns per game and 6.9ypa.Favre (in 2007) when Grant did start threw for 330 yards and 2.42 touchdowns per game and 8.8ypa.

 

[sho nuff]

I've been saying this all offseason.

Look people, the guy SUCKED for two seasons, then magically at the age of 38 he remembers how to play football?

Even at the beginning of the year, while a vast improvement over the prior two years, he didn't really hit his stride until Ryan Grant stepped in. Jennings made some amazing long touchdowns out of short passes, and few had to do with him being hit in stride.

Odd coincidence.

He did not totally suck in 06...but nice try.Did not hit his stride until Grant stepped in?

You might want to look back to the start of last year and what they did throwing the ball with no running game (and Jennings missed the first several games).

Favre (in 2007) when Grant did not start threw for 285 yards and 1.5 touchdowns per game and 6.9ypa.Favre (in 2007) when Grant did start threw for 330 yards and 2.42 touchdowns per game and 8.8ypa.

Somewhat as I did not think the stats were that skewed.However...watching the games...it was not as if he was just out chucking it up sucking those first games.

He also missed Jennings the first 2 games.

You also have the progression of the line to think about in his protection that gets overlooked.

While he did better with Grant and a running game...he was not exactly terrible before that.

 

[GreenNGold]

I've been saying this all offseason.

Look people, the guy SUCKED for two seasons, then magically at the age of 38 he remembers how to play football?

Even at the beginning of the year, while a vast improvement over the prior two years, he didn't really hit his stride until Ryan Grant stepped in. Jennings made some amazing long touchdowns out of short passes, and few had to do with him being hit in stride.

Odd coincidence.

He did not totally suck in 06...but nice try.Did not hit his stride until Grant stepped in?

You might want to look back to the start of last year and what they did throwing the ball with no running game (and Jennings missed the first several games).

Favre (in 2007) when Grant did not start threw for 285 yards and 1.5 touchdowns per game and 6.9ypa.Favre (in 2007) when Grant did start threw for 330 yards and 2.42 touchdowns per game and 8.8ypa.

Somewhat as I did not think the stats were that skewed.However...watching the games...it was not as if he was just out chucking it up sucking those first games.

He also missed Jennings the first 2 games.

You also have the progression of the line to think about in his protection that gets overlooked.

While he did better with Grant and a running game...he was not exactly terrible before that.

Stats can be skewed to support any point anyone is trying to make. The above does not take into consideration strength of schedule or opposing defenses either (including 2 games agains the Lions that stick out the most to me, as well as other teams that tended to have softer defenses for the most part than before Grant started playing).Using the logic in this thread, Rex Grossman is a better QB than Brett Favre, he just hasn't had the receivers to turn him into a good QB. Imagine what Rex could do on the Packers!!!

 

[sho nuff]

I've been saying this all offseason.

Look people, the guy SUCKED for two seasons, then magically at the age of 38 he remembers how to play football?

Even at the beginning of the year, while a vast improvement over the prior two years, he didn't really hit his stride until Ryan Grant stepped in. Jennings made some amazing long touchdowns out of short passes, and few had to do with him being hit in stride.

Odd coincidence.

He did not totally suck in 06...but nice try.Did not hit his stride until Grant stepped in?

You might want to look back to the start of last year and what they did throwing the ball with no running game (and Jennings missed the first several games).

Favre (in 2007) when Grant did not start threw for 285 yards and 1.5 touchdowns per game and 6.9ypa.Favre (in 2007) when Grant did start threw for 330 yards and 2.42 touchdowns per game and 8.8ypa.

Somewhat as I did not think the stats were that skewed.However...watching the games...it was not as if he was just out chucking it up sucking those first games.

He also missed Jennings the first 2 games.

You also have the progression of the line to think about in his protection that gets overlooked.

While he did better with Grant and a running game...he was not exactly terrible before that.

Stats can be skewed to support any point anyone is trying to make. The above does not take into consideration strength of schedule or opposing defenses either (including 2 games agains the Lions that stick out the most to me, as well as other teams that tended to have softer defenses for the most part than before Grant started playing).Using the logic in this thread, Rex Grossman is a better QB than Brett Favre, he just hasn't had the receivers to turn him into a good QB. Imagine what Rex could do on the Packers!!!

Exactly...though, I admit I did not think the numbers were as off as they are.

 

[Interseptopus]

To quote the great Homer Simpson:

"Statistics can be used to prove anything... 40% of all people know that!"

 

[FavreCo]

I competely disagree with the article. The Packers receivers were able to get so many yards after the catch because of Favre's ability to hit them in stride.

Ok, what's is a 9 TD, 17 INT turd then? Why is it people think that bum is at all capable?

What language is this written in?

The language that Vince Young (the turd) can understand.

 

[Ghost Rider]

I've been saying this all offseason.

Look people, the guy SUCKED for two seasons, then magically at the age of 38 he remembers how to play football?

Even at the beginning of the year, while a vast improvement over the prior two years, he didn't really hit his stride until Ryan Grant stepped in. Jennings made some amazing long touchdowns out of short passes, and few had to do with him being hit in stride.

Odd coincidence.

He did not totally suck in 06...but nice try.Did not hit his stride until Grant stepped in?

You might want to look back to the start of last year and what they did throwing the ball with no running game (and Jennings missed the first several games).

Favre (in 2007) when Grant did not start threw for 285 yards and 1.5 touchdowns per game and 6.9ypa.Favre (in 2007) when Grant did start threw for 330 yards and 2.42 touchdowns per game and 8.8ypa.

How well do you think Grant would have done in 2007 if the Packers had had a QB equivalent to what the Packers had at RB before Grant took over?