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Brett Favre vs Vince Young...very similar situations (1 Viewer)

Ministry of Pain

Footballguy
It dawned on me that some of you don't even know that Brett Favre at one time, early in his career, came out and admitted that he was addicted to painkillers...codeine I believe. He asked the Packers for help, asked for the forgiveness of the fans, and asked for forgiveness from the league. And we all gave it to him...and I think he won the SB later that year IIRC.

Favre said that the painkillers after awhile took away some of his depression as well, although it all caught up to him.

Now we find out that Vince Young may be perhaps suffering from depression. Why won't we give him a chance? Why do we want to throw him under the bus? Is it a race thing? Be honest, and if this has to be moved to the FFA, I understand but I sure would like to know why one gets a pass and the other is being piled on.

 
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Dude, it's because he sucks...and should be lining up at WR along with most of the other scrambling QB's that can't throw.

 
It dawned on me that some of you don't even know that Brett Favre at one time, early in his career, came out and admitted that he was addicted to painkillers...codeine I believe. He asked the Packers for help, asked for the forgiveness of the fans, and asked for forgiveness from the league. And we all gave it to him...and I think he won the SB later that year IIRC.Favre said that the painkillers after awhile took away some of his depression as well, although it all caught up to him.Now we find out that Vince Young may be perhaps suffering from depression. Why won't we give him a chance? Why do we want to throw him under the bus? Is it a race thing? Be honest, and if this has to be moved to the FFA, I understand but I sure would like to know why one gets a pass and the other is being piled on.
:goodposting: Then see the 2 posts above mine.Let me add in the following. You don't keep giving some worthless hack chance after chance when it's obvious he has no talent at all.....see David Carr, the biggest waste of time in the history of the QB position.
 
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I'd argue that in professional sports, it's much easier to overcome 1) drug addiction with therapy and the benefit of good talent than 2) depression/mental illness with therapy and mediocre talent.

 
Cause he didn't quit on his team.

In the middle of a game.

Cause he got booed.

ETA, I don't see these situations as even remotely similar.

 
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Dude, it's because he sucks...and should be lining up at WR along with most of the other scrambling QB's that can't throw.
Young has gone 18-11, and helped take the Titans to the playoffs when they weren't all that great to begin with. Does he have a WR1 that would start for any other team?Can you expand on it besides "He suxor"...so why again doesn't Young get the same treatment Favre got?
 
Wow, so prodding for a race debate is your idea of improving the Shark Pool? Why not start those other, more useful threads you clamored for in the treatise you just wrote?

 
It dawned on me that some of you don't even know that Brett Favre at one time, early in his career, came out and admitted that he was addicted to painkillers...codeine I believe. He asked the Packers for help, asked for the forgiveness of the fans, and asked for forgiveness from the league. And we all gave it to him...and I think he won the SB later that year IIRC.Favre said that the painkillers after awhile took away some of his depression as well, although it all caught up to him.Now we find out that Vince Young may be perhaps suffering from depression. Why won't we give him a chance? Why do we want to throw him under the bus? Is it a race thing? Be honest, and if this has to be moved to the FFA, I understand but I sure would like to know why one gets a pass and the other is being piled on.
:unsure: Then see the 2 posts above mine.Let me add in the following. You don't keep giving some worthless hack chance after chance when it's obvious he has no talent at all.....see David Carr, the biggest waste of time in the history of the QB position.
You have to admit though, the man has a stylish (if a bit gay) taste in throwing gloves.
 
I think the reason he does not get a pass here in the Shark Pool is because he has been a fairly big fantasy disappointment (JMO).

That said, I think that in the real world (not on a Fantasy Football website) people would absolutely give him a second chance. I know I would. He seems like a good guy going through some fairly difficult struggles, the likes of which I certainly have never dealt with.

 
I think so far, most of the posts are form a FF angle. Young went like 10-6 as a rookie and made the Pro Bowl, had a down year last year, rough game in week 1 agianst a good Jags defense, team still won the game...but lets run VY out of town.

Favre went 26-19 his 1st 4 seasons in the league, and it looks like he didn't make the playoffs until his 5th season, Young did go to the playoffs in his 2nd season, Pro bowl the 1st, so he beat Favre to the punch in both these categories.

Again, why is Young not gettign the same treatment?

 
Wow, so prodding for a race debate is your idea of improving the Shark Pool? Why not start those other, more useful threads you clamored for in the treatise you just wrote?
I'm sorry Val, but this needs to be adressed. Why is Young getting the shaft? Again, for the 1,000th time, I felt this guy would fail coming out of college. That does not make me feel good about his present situation. if this thread doesn't belong in the SP, I'll be happy to see it moved to the FFA, but i really feel that folks are putting way too much emphasis on stats with these 2 players. I stated how Young made the pro bowl and playoffs faster than Favre. There has to be more reasons.I'm not trying to pick a fight either, but I would liek to try and understand why this is happening to him.
 
Favre was already putting up pro-bowl numbers when he got hooked on the junk.
Didn't Vince Young make the Pro Bowl as a rookie? :no:
Shows what that means. Does this sound like Pro Bowl material? ....51% completions for 2199 yards. 12 td's and 13 INTs Where is Eli Mannings Pro Bowl? He did better than that AND won a championship. Can't wait for this answer.
Did he beat Favre to making the Pro Bowl? Did he lead his team to the playoffs in his 2nd season? I get what you're about FC, we've heard form you, obviously you hate Vince and want to ram it down everyone's throat that you are right somehow. Show me the post where you said before he took the field in the NFl that he was headcase and likely would suffer from depression after making the Pro Bowl as a rookie and the playoffs his 2nd season...if you can make a link to that, then I'll give you your due props. but otherwise, you just seem ready to pick a fight with anyone that speaks positive about Vince or even dares make a comparison to another player you obviously love.We're good, good luck to you the rest of the season.
 
Dude, it's because he sucks...and should be lining up at WR along with most of the other scrambling QB's that can't throw.
Young has gone 18-11, and helped take the Titans to the playoffs when they weren't all that great to begin with. Does he have a WR1 that would start for any other team?Can you expand on it besides "He suxor"...so why again doesn't Young get the same treatment Favre got?
Record doesn't equal talent. Kyle Orton has a better winning percentage as a starter and also took a team to the playoffs. These two situations really don't seem that similar to me and Race has nothing to do with it.
 
I think the reason he does not get a pass here in the Shark Pool is because he has been a fairly big fantasy disappointment (JMO).

That said, I think that in the real world (not on a Fantasy Football website) people would absolutely give him a second chance. I know I would. He seems like a good guy going through some fairly difficult struggles, the likes of which I certainly have never dealt with.
Exactly, and one has nothing to do with the other, so i think folks should lay off, because the whole piling on with him is pretty short sighted, IMO.
 
Again, I think most of the people bashing here from the FF perspective.

In terms of why TN is not currently being a kind to Young as GB was the Favre back in the day I think probably has more to do with Favre's outgoing personality than it does with race. Favre seems like the kind of guy someone would have a beer with, and Green Bay is the type of town that seems to appreciate that.

Young is a very different type of person than that, obviously and I think that more than likely most of the Titan fans do not feel that connection with Young that the GB folks felt with Favre. I think that by itself is why the fans might not be as forgiving right off the bat.

Clearly Young has skill and has proven to be a winner with less than spectacular talent around him. If he opens up to the fans and relates to them (may not be possible) I bet he would get a second chance just as quickly as Favre did.

 
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What's better SP?

A QB that wins games and makes the playoffs, or a QB that throws for 4,000 yds and 30 TD every year? I know from a FF perspective who you like better but this thread wasn't really about the FF angle, and I apologize for not making that clear uptop.

 
Did he beat Favre to making the Pro Bowl? Did he lead his team to the playoffs in his 2nd season? I get what you're about FC, we've heard form you, obviously you hate Vince and want to ram it down everyone's throat that you are right somehow. Show me the post where you said before he took the field in the NFl that he was headcase and likely would suffer from depression after making the Pro Bowl as a rookie and the playoffs his 2nd season...if you can make a link to that, then I'll give you your due props. but otherwise, you just seem ready to pick a fight with anyone that speaks positive about Vince or even dares make a comparison to another player you obviously love.We're good, good luck to you the rest of the season.
Excellent answer. Total ramble but a great read. Understand this: Vince Young is no good. You were the one somehow trying to compare Favre to Young via non football related issues. One is an NFL QB, the other is Vince Young. Good luck to you too.
 
This is an interesting thread with some good points on both sides. I think a great example of what MOP is talking about is this, by Abraham, from one of the other threads:

Everything done wrong [by VY] is a big deal, and every thing done right is "lucky". He throws a TD to Chris Johnson - a good decision, a good read - and all people can talk about is how the throw was low and behind him. Contrast that with Aaron Rodgers, who throws a TD last night across his body off one foot and all you hear far and wide is about how much like Brett Favre he is.
It's always been like this for him. Every mistake magnified. Every success downplayed. Why the double standard? I for one am mystified. Seriously.
 
The only difference between VY going to the Pro Bowl and me going to the Pro Bowl is that I had to have a ticket. Whoopty freakin doo...Let's see, yep all sports accolades including all-star voting are completely objective and should be treated as an genuine example of the perfomance on the field of play. There is never any politics involved in these decisions. In the case of Vince Young, the fact that he made his sport's all star team should give him a free pass to completely suck until he has at least played out his first contract.

Or not.

I've said it before and I'll say it again - the guy's head is a bingo tumbler. Why anyone would think he could handle the most demanding position in sports is a perfect storm of ego and ignorance. But let's go ahead and debate his relevance because he's a college hero. Please.

 
This is an interesting thread with some good points on both sides. I think a great example of what MOP is talking about is this, by Abraham, from one of the other threads:

Everything done wrong [by VY] is a big deal, and every thing done right is "lucky". He throws a TD to Chris Johnson - a good decision, a good read - and all people can talk about is how the throw was low and behind him. Contrast that with Aaron Rodgers, who throws a TD last night across his body off one foot and all you hear far and wide is about how much like Brett Favre he is.
It's always been like this for him. Every mistake magnified. Every success downplayed. Why the double standard? I for one am mystified. Seriously.
A qb taken in the top 3 (Even the first round for that matter) is likely to take more heat when not producing. The guy got a lot of money to take that team to the next level, currently they still look like one and done playoff team with him leading the charge.
 
To the OP.

What are you trying to compare? Why do you think VY is getting the shaft?

1. Favre was addicted to Vicodin which was prescribed while he was injured.

2. Favre was booed more the VY and he did not quit and never said he didn't want to play.

3. I see absolutely no comparison between Favre and Young.

Did I miss something today? Did Tenn. cut Vince today? Why does he need a second chance, he is still working on his first chance.

 
Tennessee won its games despite Vince Young.

Okay sure, Vince might have helped win a few. But even those one's with the highlight TD runs his rookie year, Vince hurt them badly in those same games in so many other ways that it's hard to say he was a net benefit to the team: missing open receivers, unable to stretch the field, forgoing open receivers for a short scramble, and not having a strong grasp of the playbook.

Classic case of what is seen and what is unseen. What we see is Tennessee making the playoffs last year with Vince. So Vince helped, right? What we didn't see was how great Tennessee could have been with that great OL/DL with an average QB who can minimize mistakes and stretch the field. And by "average", read: better than Vince. Where's Trent Dilfer when you need him??

As such, to liken the issues between Favre and Young is just preposterous.

 
Tennessee won its games despite Vince Young.

Okay sure, Vince might have helped win a few. But even those one's with the highlight TD runs his rookie year, Vince hurt them badly in those same games in so many other ways that it's hard to say he was a net benefit to the team: missing open receivers, unable to stretch the field, forgoing open receivers for a short scramble, and not having a strong grasp of the playbook.

Classic case of what is seen and what is unseen. What we see is Tennessee making the playoffs last year with Vince. So Vince helped, right? What we didn't see was how great Tennessee could have been with that great OL/DL with an average QB who can minimize mistakes and stretch the field. And by "average", read: better than Vince. Where's Trent Dilfer when you need him??

As such, to liken the issues between Favre and Young is just preposterous.
Didn't they make the playoffs by beating Indy's second string in week 17?
 
Wow, so prodding for a race debate is your idea of improving the Shark Pool? Why not start those other, more useful threads you clamored for in the treatise you just wrote?
I'm sorry Val, but this needs to be adressed. Why is Young getting the shaft? Again, for the 1,000th time, I felt this guy would fail coming out of college. That does not make me feel good about his present situation. if this thread doesn't belong in the SP, I'll be happy to see it moved to the FFA, but i really feel that folks are putting way too much emphasis on stats with these 2 players. I stated how Young made the pro bowl and playoffs faster than Favre. There has to be more reasons.I'm not trying to pick a fight either, but I would liek to try and understand why this is happening to him.
MoP,I think he's catching a lot of crap here because he has hurt, or at least not helped, any fantasy team he has been on. It's just a case of fantasy geeks being selfish and and saying "What have you done for me lately?"I feel sorry for the guy, just like I felt sorry for Ricky Williams when they put a wedding dress on him and paraded him around. These are just kids that have had the expectations of millions of people placed on their shoulders. It's surprising that more of them don't crack under that kind of pressure.Most of the fantasy geeks here like to say "Man up", but if put in the position of taking criticism from an entire city and millions of people, they would be the first to "run home to mama".JMHO
 
Wow, so prodding for a race debate is your idea of improving the Shark Pool? Why not start those other, more useful threads you clamored for in the treatise you just wrote?
I'm sorry Val, but this needs to be adressed. Why is Young getting the shaft? Again, for the 1,000th time, I felt this guy would fail coming out of college. That does not make me feel good about his present situation. if this thread doesn't belong in the SP, I'll be happy to see it moved to the FFA, but i really feel that folks are putting way too much emphasis on stats with these 2 players. I stated how Young made the pro bowl and playoffs faster than Favre. There has to be more reasons.I'm not trying to pick a fight either, but I would liek to try and understand why this is happening to him.
MoP,I think he's catching a lot of crap here because he has hurt, or at least not helped, any fantasy team he has been on. It's just a case of fantasy geeks being selfish and and saying "What have you done for me lately?"I feel sorry for the guy, just like I felt sorry for Ricky Williams when they put a wedding dress on him and paraded him around. These are just kids that have had the expectations of millions of people placed on their shoulders. It's surprising that more of them don't crack under that kind of pressure.Most of the fantasy geeks here like to say "Man up", but if put in the position of taking criticism from an entire city and millions of people, they would be the first to "run home to mama".JMHO
You feel sorry for the guy? Vince Young the millionaire? That Vince Young? So he gets paid unbelieveable scratch to play a game and I'm supposed to feel sorry for him for cracking under the pressure? He does need to man up. If he's sick he needs to get help. If he's been sick he needs to give the Titan's back some $$. If he's just weak he needs to either quit playing football or quit playing QB. I feel sorry for Titan fans. I do not feel sorry for Vince.
 
Wow, so prodding for a race debate is your idea of improving the Shark Pool? Why not start those other, more useful threads you clamored for in the treatise you just wrote?
I'm sorry Val, but this needs to be adressed. Why is Young getting the shaft? Again, for the 1,000th time, I felt this guy would fail coming out of college. That does not make me feel good about his present situation. if this thread doesn't belong in the SP, I'll be happy to see it moved to the FFA, but i really feel that folks are putting way too much emphasis on stats with these 2 players. I stated how Young made the pro bowl and playoffs faster than Favre. There has to be more reasons.I'm not trying to pick a fight either, but I would liek to try and understand why this is happening to him.
MoP,I think he's catching a lot of crap here because he has hurt, or at least not helped, any fantasy team he has been on. It's just a case of fantasy geeks being selfish and and saying "What have you done for me lately?"I feel sorry for the guy, just like I felt sorry for Ricky Williams when they put a wedding dress on him and paraded him around. These are just kids that have had the expectations of millions of people placed on their shoulders. It's surprising that more of them don't crack under that kind of pressure.Most of the fantasy geeks here like to say "Man up", but if put in the position of taking criticism from an entire city and millions of people, they would be the first to "run home to mama".JMHO
You feel sorry for the guy? Vince Young the millionaire? That Vince Young? So he gets paid unbelieveable scratch to play a game and I'm supposed to feel sorry for him for cracking under the pressure? He does need to man up. If he's sick he needs to get help. If he's been sick he needs to give the Titan's back some $$. If he's just weak he needs to either quit playing football or quit playing QB. I feel sorry for Titan fans. I do not feel sorry for Vince.
Are you kidding me?I'm a firefighter making $70k a year and I still think these guys are underpaid for the abuse they put their bodies through, the unpredictable career length, etc. Every fireman I've asked agrees.This isn't baseball or basketball. These guys are animals.
 
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It dawned on me that some of you don't even know that Brett Favre at one time, early in his career, came out and admitted that he was addicted to painkillers...codeine I believe. He asked the Packers for help, asked for the forgiveness of the fans, and asked for forgiveness from the league. And we all gave it to him...and I think he won the SB later that year IIRC.Favre said that the painkillers after awhile took away some of his depression as well, although it all caught up to him.Now we find out that Vince Young may be perhaps suffering from depression. Why won't we give him a chance? Why do we want to throw him under the bus? Is it a race thing? Be honest, and if this has to be moved to the FFA, I understand but I sure would like to know why one gets a pass and the other is being piled on.
What a reach!!!! :popcorn:
 
It dawned on me that some of you don't even know that Brett Favre at one time, early in his career, came out and admitted that he was addicted to painkillers...codeine I believe. He asked the Packers for help, asked for the forgiveness of the fans, and asked for forgiveness from the league. And we all gave it to him...and I think he won the SB later that year IIRC.Favre said that the painkillers after awhile took away some of his depression as well, although it all caught up to him.Now we find out that Vince Young may be perhaps suffering from depression. Why won't we give him a chance? Why do we want to throw him under the bus? Is it a race thing? Be honest, and if this has to be moved to the FFA, I understand but I sure would like to know why one gets a pass and the other is being piled on.
First time I hear of this.Vince Young sucks.
 
What a bizarre comparison.

If Young has depression, it's a disease and should be treated.

Farve also had a disease... an addiction to prescribed drugs. He got treated, but never had to make his team notify the police to put out an APB in him for fear he might hurt himself.

Favre never let his team down... while it does appear VY may have let his team down. The QB position is unforgiving.... any sign of mental weakness is a career killer. It is THE leadership position on an NFL team. When the general hides in his tent.... instead of leading a counter-attack... he loses his troops.

Is that what Young did? Hide in the tent? Now Fischer says no.... but I have my doubts... this is not the first time we've heard about VY wanting out. Where there is smoke there is usually fire...

 
What's better SP?A QB that wins games and makes the playoffs, or a QB that throws for 4,000 yds and 30 TD every year?
The latter. Be assured that he is actually more valuable to his team and the former player is being carried along in a good situation. I don't hear people clamouring for Philip Rivers to be ranked above Carson Palmer on the Best QB Lists, but somehow scramblers like Vince Young and Michael Vick always get more credit than they deserve for their team's success.
 
I still remember all the crap that the Houston GM took for passing on Bush and Young. I think that in retrospect, taking a guy who looks to be an outstanding defensive lineman in this league turned out to be a great choice.

 
I think a better comparison to Young is Kerry Collins (who by coincidence is his current backup):

Both were drafted high in the first round, both had teams that won regardless of their personal success, neither could carry their team, both quit on their teams, both had the fans turn on them...Collins made a quick stop in NO before resurrecting his career in NY and going to a Super Bowl (in which he was a contributor to that run) and now the whole episode is just a memory. I would not be surprised if the same happened to Vince, but it won't be in NashVegas.

 
Favre went 26-19 his 1st 4 seasons in the league, and it looks like he didn't make the playoffs until his 5th season, Young did go to the playoffs in his 2nd season, Pro bowl the 1st, so he beat Favre to the punch in both these categories.
Dude, come on. You are posting both misleading and false information. Misleading because you say in Favre's first 4 seasons, but he was a starter for only 3 of them. False because your "it looks like he didn't make the playoffs until his 5th season" is way off... the Packers made the playoffs in 1993, Favre's first full season as starter (Majkowski started the first 3 games in 1992), and in the next 5 seasons after that... and overall in 10 of his first 12 seasons as the full time starter (1993-2004). Furthermore, prior to that run, the Packers had not made the playoffs since 1982.
Again, why is Young not gettign the same treatment?
There are so many differences in the situations.Favre revitalized a franchise... Young joined a franchise that was coming off 2 losing seasons but had made the playoffs in 4 of 5 seasons prior to that.While Young's record is good, his performances last season and last week certainly don't make it a foregone conclusion that he is a primary reason for that record. Meanwhile, Favre was deservedly given credit for lifting his franchise to its very good record with him.It is obvious that Young is struggling as a passer. Favre wasn't struggling at that time, in fact he was playing great - he made the Pro Bowl in his first two seasons starting for Green Bay (1992 and 1993).It was reported that Young considered retiring last season or offseason, can't remember... so this is like a recurring issue with him. That wasn't the case with Favre.It was reported last week that Young had to be forced back into the game. Favre never quit on his team in a game.IIRC, Favre addressed his problem in an offseason. Young's problem is happening in season.I don't see any similarity in the situations. :goodposting:
 
Did he beat Favre to making the Pro Bowl?
Technically, yes. But Favre made the Pro Bowl in his first 2 seasons as a starter, his second and third seasons overall. It certainly doesn't seem that Young will match Favre's 2 Pro Bowl in his first 3 seasons.
Did he lead his team to the playoffs in his 2nd season?
Young's team did make the playoffs in his second season. Did he lead the team there? That's debatable... he threw 9 TDs and ran for 3, but he also threw 17 interceptions and lost one fumble... and the offense he led was ranked #21 in the NFL in yards and #22 in points.Meanwhile, Favre's teams made the playoffs in his first two seasons as starter... though it was his third and fourth seasons since he didn't start in Atlanta and Majkowski started the first 3 games of his second season.The comparison just isn't there, even aside from the difference between clinical depression (if that is indeed what Young has) and substance addiction.
 
What's better SP?A QB that wins games and makes the playoffs, or a QB that throws for 4,000 yds and 30 TD every year? I know from a FF perspective who you like better but this thread wasn't really about the FF angle, and I apologize for not making that clear uptop.
Uh, Young has started 29 games and has a .620 winning percentage. Favre has a career .634 winning percentage. Young's teams have made the playoffs in 1 of 2 seasons (50%). Even if you count Favre's year in Atlanta and year starting out behind Majkowski, his teams made the playoffs in 11 of 17 seasons (64.7%).*And* Favre had great passing numbers.Again, you're off base with this comparison.
 
MOP....this is THE worst thread you have ever started. You're an idiot and deserve that based on your premise of this thread. Wake up, son. I have no problem getting a TO for his. I thought you had some knowledge of football.

 
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Favre went 26-19 his 1st 4 seasons in the league, and it looks like he didn't make the playoffs until his 5th season, Young did go to the playoffs in his 2nd season, Pro bowl the 1st, so he beat Favre to the punch in both these categories.
Dude, come on. You are posting both misleading and false information. Misleading because you say in Favre's first 4 seasons, but he was a starter for only 3 of them. False because your "it looks like he didn't make the playoffs until his 5th season" is way off... the Packers made the playoffs in 1993, Favre's first full season as starter (Majkowski started the first 3 games in 1992), and in the next 5 seasons after that... and overall in 10 of his first 12 seasons as the full time starter (1993-2004). Furthermore, prior to that run, the Packers had not made the playoffs since 1982.
Again, why is Young not gettign the same treatment?
There are so many differences in the situations.Favre revitalized a franchise... Young joined a franchise that was coming off 2 losing seasons but had made the playoffs in 4 of 5 seasons prior to that.While Young's record is good, his performances last season and last week certainly don't make it a foregone conclusion that he is a primary reason for that record. Meanwhile, Favre was deservedly given credit for lifting his franchise to its very good record with him.It is obvious that Young is struggling as a passer. Favre wasn't struggling at that time, in fact he was playing great - he made the Pro Bowl in his first two seasons starting for Green Bay (1992 and 1993).It was reported that Young considered retiring last season or offseason, can't remember... so this is like a recurring issue with him. That wasn't the case with Favre.It was reported last week that Young had to be forced back into the game. Favre never quit on his team in a game.IIRC, Favre addressed his problem in an offseason. Young's problem is happening in season.I don't see any similarity in the situations. :lmao:
:goodposting: The other difference why you cannot compare the situations, and it has been implied in this thread by other posters plus JustWin, is that it was Brett Favre who came forward and admitted he had an addiction and got help; whereas that has not been the case with Vince Young. He is still being insulated, or coddled. The first step toward overcoming a situation is identifying, or admitting, to a problem and I haven't seen a link, or article, that has Vince Young coming out and saying he has a problem and needs to get help.Please don't get me wrong, it appears as though Young has some serious personal issues to deal with and I hope he is able to identify/confront/overcome those issues. However, his mother, his agent and his coach are the ones who have come forward on his behalf. The comparison to Kerry Collins, who did not get a pass from fans and media, is more appropriate. I hope for Vince's sake that his story turns out similarly as it appears to have for Collins.
 
:lmao: at the venom spewed towards MOP and VY.. like they murdered someone.

I guess that's what happens when people are not comfortable or secure about race relations. So he threw out a theory, he mentioned race, big deal.

 
It dawned on me that some of you don't even know that Brett Favre at one time, early in his career, came out and admitted that he was addicted to painkillers...codeine I believe. He asked the Packers for help, asked for the forgiveness of the fans, and asked for forgiveness from the league. And we all gave it to him...and I think he won the SB later that year IIRC.Favre said that the painkillers after awhile took away some of his depression as well, although it all caught up to him.Now we find out that Vince Young may be perhaps suffering from depression. Why won't we give him a chance? Why do we want to throw him under the bus? Is it a race thing? Be honest, and if this has to be moved to the FFA, I understand but I sure would like to know why one gets a pass and the other is being piled on.
MOP, I don't recall hearing about depression when Favre was hooked on Vicodin. And as far as I am concerned, Vince Young the person is the most important thing to get well. Whether he plays football again or not really isn't that important. But I do think race is rearing its ugly head here to some extent. Whether people want to admit it or not. Vince needs support, unfortunately many people are simpyl too shallow to realize this. Good luck Vince.
 
:goodposting: at the venom spewed towards MOP and VY.. like they murdered someone. I guess that's what happens when people are not comfortable or secure about race relations. So he threw out a theory, he mentioned race, big deal.
I'm glad you threw the laughing icon out there, cause that must be a joke. Didn't sound like a theory to me, sounded like an accusation. And he still hasn't answered my response of "Young quit on his team, and Favre didn't", while answering other posts where he could drive home the race theory.Perhaps we're not the ones uncomfortable with race relations, rather, it's the people who continually have to bring it up and try to make a federal case out of every perceived slight to a black person.Nothing, I repeat, nothing has been "spewed" at VY that wasn't spewed at Carr, Couch, Harrington and dozens of other QBs who didn't live up to expectations, and I wish people would stop trying to inject race into every damn conversation.
 
Wow, so prodding for a race debate is your idea of improving the Shark Pool? Why not start those other, more useful threads you clamored for in the treatise you just wrote?
I'm sorry Val, but this needs to be adressed. Why is Young getting the shaft? Again, for the 1,000th time, I felt this guy would fail coming out of college. That does not make me feel good about his present situation. if this thread doesn't belong in the SP, I'll be happy to see it moved to the FFA, but i really feel that folks are putting way too much emphasis on stats with these 2 players. I stated how Young made the pro bowl and playoffs faster than Favre. There has to be more reasons.I'm not trying to pick a fight either, but I would liek to try and understand why this is happening to him.
MoP,I think he's catching a lot of crap here because he has hurt, or at least not helped, any fantasy team he has been on. It's just a case of fantasy geeks being selfish and and saying "What have you done for me lately?"I feel sorry for the guy, just like I felt sorry for Ricky Williams when they put a wedding dress on him and paraded him around. These are just kids that have had the expectations of millions of people placed on their shoulders. It's surprising that more of them don't crack under that kind of pressure.Most of the fantasy geeks here like to say "Man up", but if put in the position of taking criticism from an entire city and millions of people, they would be the first to "run home to mama".JMHO
You feel sorry for the guy? Vince Young the millionaire? That Vince Young? So he gets paid unbelieveable scratch to play a game and I'm supposed to feel sorry for him for cracking under the pressure? He does need to man up. If he's sick he needs to get help. If he's been sick he needs to give the Titan's back some $$. If he's just weak he needs to either quit playing football or quit playing QB. I feel sorry for Titan fans. I do not feel sorry for Vince.
Are you kidding me?I'm a firefighter making $70k a year and I still think these guys are underpaid for the abuse they put their bodies through, the unpredictable career length, etc. Every fireman I've asked agrees.This isn't baseball or basketball. These guys are animals.
As a fireman I should think you would understand the difference between a dangerous job that provides a service and a dangerous job that provides entertainment. Nobody puts a gun to these guys heads and forces them to play football. If Vince was busting his a*s out there everyday to benefit charity or something to that effect, I think I would feel differently. But he's not. He's not working very hard (at least nothing that can be seen on the football field); he's not improving; and he's breaking down mentally. I feel sorry for Vince Young the person. I mean, what he's going through can't be fun. But millions of people go through what he is going through. Most of them aren't millionaires. To this point I don't think Vince has earned much of his NFL money. I'm sorry if that offends you.
 
It dawned on me that some of you don't even know that Brett Favre at one time, early in his career, came out and admitted that he was addicted to painkillers...codeine I believe. He asked the Packers for help, asked for the forgiveness of the fans, and asked for forgiveness from the league. And we all gave it to him...and I think he won the SB later that year IIRC.Favre said that the painkillers after awhile took away some of his depression as well, although it all caught up to him.Now we find out that Vince Young may be perhaps suffering from depression. Why won't we give him a chance? Why do we want to throw him under the bus? Is it a race thing? Be honest, and if this has to be moved to the FFA, I understand but I sure would like to know why one gets a pass and the other is being piled on.
[Opening can of Tuna]There is not a racial issue in Tennessee. These are the same fans that supported Steve McNair for years. Favre had already had some success before the pain drug addiction issue which is why the fans back him more. VY is just another great college QB who can't read defenses and lacks the mental ability to play to play the position at the NFL level.[/Opening can of Tuna]
 
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The shark pool needs:

More Brett Favre!!!!!!!!

More Racial comparisons!!!!! (What if Tom Brady changed his name to Doce)

MORE COWBELL!!!!!!

 
It dawned on me that some of you don't even know that Brett Favre at one time, early in his career, came out and admitted that he was addicted to painkillers...codeine I believe. He asked the Packers for help, asked for the forgiveness of the fans, and asked for forgiveness from the league. And we all gave it to him...and I think he won the SB later that year IIRC.

Favre said that the painkillers after awhile took away some of his depression as well, although it all caught up to him.

Now we find out that Vince Young may be perhaps suffering from depression. Why won't we give him a chance? Why do we want to throw him under the bus? Is it a race thing? Be honest, and if this has to be moved to the FFA, I understand but I sure would like to know why one gets a pass and the other is being piled on.
MOP -- while I think your specific analogy has a few holes, the spirit of what you're saying has a lot of merit.As to Favre, you're right that he came out publicly with an addiction to Vicodin and spent time in rehab prior to the 96 season. The same season when he won his 2nd of 3 MVPs and the Super Bowl. But he was hardly an unproven prospect at that time, having already won the league's MVP award.

I think, sadly, the reason fans tolerate things like Favre's addiction is that it's perceived as "TOUGH." Favre was taking pills to stay on the field and "play hurt." So fans project that as a positive trait in their players. Whereas Young's personal demons appear to be keeping him from wanting to play; which is anathema for fans.

I blogged about this very issue yesterday, if you're interested:

http://blog.footballguys.com/2008/09/10/is...really-helping/

Let’s be honest, the NFL is a game built around toughness. Whether it’s fair or not isn’t in question, it’s the reality of the game we all love to watch and participate in via our fantasy leagues. Players are expected to play through pain. Iron men like Brett Favre spend years taking heavy pain medication to gut out games, and when he comes clean about it, we salute him for his courage and toughness. Peyton Manning has knee surgery and less than two months later is back leading his team. Shawne Merriman disregarded the medical opinions of some of the country’s best doctors in order to suit up for San Diego last week; and it only helped to increase fandom’s opinion of him.

But what about mental pain? Are we as quick to applaud players when they’re dealing with psychological issues? The world saluted Terrell Owens for playing in the Super Bowl after suffering a bone break; but were they as supportive of him when news came out about a potential depression that resulted in an accidental overdose? Were Philadelphia Eagles fans praising Shawn Andrews to “get healthy” when he missed training camp with clinical depression? Not so much.

Now we have the Vince Young situation to deal with. By now you’ve read the reports. Vince Young was distraught during the Week One game against the Jaguars (a game the Titans won by the way), and that night Titans officials involved the police in a search for Young after they couldn’t reach him via cellphone.

Rumors have swirled over the last 48 hours about his mental state, his passion for the game, and his future with the Titans.

According to several reports, including ESPN:

Young was the subject of a four-hour search Monday night by Nashville police, who were called by Titans coach Jeff Fisher after Young’s family members expressed concern about Young’s “emotional well-being,” according to police.

Major Adams, Young’s agent, went on the defensive and denied any depression-related issues:

Vince Young’s agent, Major Adams, told ESPN reporter George Smith that he didn’t know why the story has taken on a life of its own.

Adams said he called Young’s friend’s house after hearing that Young was missing. Adams said the quarterback was upbeat and watching the Monday night games, and confirmed that Young was without his cell phone.

As for reports about depression or Young’s fragile emotional state, Adams told Smith they’re “unfounded.”

“It’s the first time I’ve heard that. I know he’s not battling depression,” Adams said. “He’s fine mentally. I think it’s a misunderstanding and misinformation.”

Which brings us to Vince Young’s mother…

Felicia Young and her son are close; that’s a well established fact. Like many athletes, Young has gone out of his way to credit his mother’s influence on his life. It’s only natural that a loving mother would have strong opinions about the well-being of her child. But should she air those concerns in the media?

From the Tennessean newspaper:

* “Vince has gone through a whole lot as a young person,” Felicia Young said. “And I think he has done pretty well up to this point. But it is hard, all he is going through right now. He’s hurting inside and out.”

* “What would you think, if you were tired of being ridiculed and persecuted and talked about and not being treated very well, what would you do? What kind of decision would you make?” Felicia Young said. “He may not want to deal with it (all), but you have to get to that point before you make that decision first.”

Shouldn’t Felicia understand that acknowledging his emotional state actually serves as a disservice to her son? Again, I’m NOT saying it should be that way, but at what point do you have to accept the reality of your given situation? In the NFL, you can get arrested and not lose your job; whereas I would be given my walking papers most likely. That’s MY given situation. On the flip side, if I had some kind of physical or mental illness, I’m betting my employers would be pretty understanding as I dealt through the process. In the NFL, where you have to be TOUGH (whatever that means), it’s sadly difficult if not impossible to brush off reports of depression or lack of passion easily.

So what do you think? Are you concerned about Vince Young’s football future? Do you think this situation should’ve been treated differently by the Titans, his agent, his mother, his friends? Let’s hear your thoughts.
 

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