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Brewers to offer CC Sabathia contract sometime today (1 Viewer)

larry_boy_44

Footballguy
or so I've heard from a few places...

don't know how long or how much... but the rumors are that they are telling him what we can give him today...

I've heard 4 years/$100 million, but no clue if that is credible at all (I'd lean towards it not being credible even if its true)...

this says "soon" yesterday, but I've heard "today" a few times today: http://www.jsonline.com/sports/brewers/33616914.html

 
Odds of Brewers re-signing CC - 5%. Maybe.
I'd place it at atleast 10%. I know he was amazing, but other teams have to be wary of all the innings he pitched down the stretch this year, especially given his slow start on the year following his extended workload last year.
 
Odds of Brewers re-signing CC - 5%. Maybe.
I'd place it at atleast 10%. I know he was amazing, but other teams have to be wary of all the innings he pitched down the stretch this year, especially given his slow start on the year following his extended workload last year.
I would say that 4/100 isn't going to cut it...not unless they can get him to buy into a hometown discount. I'd love to see him there if he can't/won't come back to Cleveland, but I'd say CC's pitched his last game in Milwaukee.
 
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I've been saying since late in the season that he'll sign with the Yankees, somewhere in the neighborhood of $140-$150 mil over 6-7 years.

 
I've been saying since late in the season that he'll sign with the Yankees, somewhere in the neighborhood of $140-$150 mil over 6-7 years.
Which is equal to or less than the Brewers are offering moneywise.
The extra two years are a huge difference. A Zitoesque seven year deal would carry CC through his age 34 season. The Yankees are much better positioned to eat the last few years of a bad deal. They could still go out and sign a replacement if Sabathia is hurt or ineffective. A $20M/yr pitcher could be an albatross to a team like Milwaukee.
 
I've been saying since late in the season that he'll sign with the Yankees, somewhere in the neighborhood of $140-$150 mil over 6-7 years.
Which is equal to or less than the Brewers are offering moneywise.
If reports are true, Milwaukee is offering $100 million for four years. The Yankees would offer, say, $150 million for 7 years. In what crazy world is $100 million equal to $150 million?
 
I've been saying since late in the season that he'll sign with the Yankees, somewhere in the neighborhood of $140-$150 mil over 6-7 years.
Which is equal to or less than the Brewers are offering moneywise.
If reports are true, Milwaukee is offering $100 million for four years. The Yankees would offer, say, $150 million for 7 years. In what crazy world is $100 million equal to $150 million?
$25 M/year > $21 and 3/7 M/year
 
I think Fatbathia would like to stay in the NL and get to a team near his home in Cali but the Yankees will throw so many gold bars and access to the world's best restaurants, it's gonna be hard for him to pass that up.

 
I heard the offer was $100 mil for 5 years. I don't think CC signs for $20 mil a year. He'll get much closer to $25. On the other hand, Mike Cameron was on local sports talk radio and said he talks to CC just about every day. CC would love to stay in Milwaukee and doesn't sound like it will come down to just money. I think if the money is close, the Brewers have a chance. IMO, I don't think the money will be close though.

 
I hope the Brewers come up with enough coin to satisfy him, I would love to see him stay in Milwaukee. Hopefully we'll see an athlete choose happiness over highest contract possible.

 
What's funny is that a few years ago, we wouldn't even be having this discussion. Thank you, Mark Antanasio.

 
larry_boy_44 said:
Capella said:
larry_boy_44 said:
$25 M/year > $21 and 3/7 M/year
FAIL
So 25 is not larger than 22? Since when???I realize the years makes a difference, and I never said it didn't.But that doesn't change that the yearly salary in a 4/100 deal is larger than the yearly salary in a 7/150 deal...
Right, the yearly salary is higher. But these guys aren't like regular workers. They aren't working on one-year deals, and they've got to plan for their bodies to give out, especially when those bodies are approaching 300 pounds.So unless Sabathia thinks he can finish out a four year deal with the Brewers and THEN get a contract of $50 million for three years at the age of 33 AND pitch well enough and remain healthy enough to warrant it, the $150 mil guaranteed over seven years is far better than $100 mil over four.Not to mention, if the average salary thing really is the kicker, then the Yankees offer could very well be $150 for six years rather than seven. That gets them to an equal average salary to Milwaukee and gives him an extra $50 million.
 
larry_boy_44 said:
Capella said:
larry_boy_44 said:
$25 M/year > $21 and 3/7 M/year
FAIL
So 25 is not larger than 22? Since when???I realize the years makes a difference, and I never said it didn't.But that doesn't change that the yearly salary in a 4/100 deal is larger than the yearly salary in a 7/150 deal...
Right, the yearly salary is higher. But these guys aren't like regular workers. They aren't working on one-year deals, and they've got to plan for their bodies to give out, especially when those bodies are approaching 300 pounds.So unless Sabathia thinks he can finish out a four year deal with the Brewers and THEN get a contract of $50 million for three years at the age of 33 AND pitch well enough and remain healthy enough to warrant it, the $150 mil guaranteed over seven years is far better than $100 mil over four.Not to mention, if the average salary thing really is the kicker, then the Yankees offer could very well be $150 for six years rather than seven. That gets them to an equal average salary to Milwaukee and gives him an extra $50 million.
That's lowballing him (especially with the years) if he pitches well on the backside. Assuming he pitches well, at 32 he should be able to get at least 4 year deal at more $ per year than what you said. There's also various option clauses that could be included for things like game started and the like that the Brewers could include on the back end years if he's really concerned about it.
 
KingPrawn said:
I heard the offer was $100 mil for 5 years. I don't think CC signs for $20 mil a year. He'll get much closer to $25. On the other hand, Mike Cameron was on local sports talk radio and said he talks to CC just about every day. CC would love to stay in Milwaukee and doesn't sound like it will come down to just money. I think if the money is close, the Brewers have a chance. IMO, I don't think the money will be close though.
I'll say this. If money wasn't the deciding factor, he would've instructed his agent to sign an extension with Cleveland last spring for below market value. In my opinion, this is all about playing nice and not burning bridges with a fanbase that treated him well and all that. No one outside of Manny is going to come out and say, "Highest bidder wins".But when push comes to shove, he's not turning down an extra $50, $60 mil -- and the Yankees WILL blow any offer out of the water money-wise. They'll sell him on being a potential Yankee hall of famer, winning in NY, joining the history of great lefty pitchers there, opening up the brand-new stadium, the NYC nightlife, the endorsement opportunities for a larger-than-life guy, and the tons and tons of cash.

Regardless of whether he'd prefer a higher yearly average or a higher total package contract, I will say with 100% certainty that the Yankees will not lose out on him if they truly want him and will give him whatever money/years combo it takes to get it done.

If they don't sign him, it won't be due to his preference to pitch on the west coast or because he likes to bat. It'll be because the Yankees choose not to aggressively pursue him, which I don't see any way they fail to go after him hard.

 
larry_boy_44 said:
Capella said:
larry_boy_44 said:
$25 M/year > $21 and 3/7 M/year
FAIL
So 25 is not larger than 22? Since when???I realize the years makes a difference, and I never said it didn't.But that doesn't change that the yearly salary in a 4/100 deal is larger than the yearly salary in a 7/150 deal...
Right, the yearly salary is higher. But these guys aren't like regular workers. They aren't working on one-year deals, and they've got to plan for their bodies to give out, especially when those bodies are approaching 300 pounds.So unless Sabathia thinks he can finish out a four year deal with the Brewers and THEN get a contract of $50 million for three years at the age of 33 AND pitch well enough and remain healthy enough to warrant it, the $150 mil guaranteed over seven years is far better than $100 mil over four.Not to mention, if the average salary thing really is the kicker, then the Yankees offer could very well be $150 for six years rather than seven. That gets them to an equal average salary to Milwaukee and gives him an extra $50 million.
That's lowballing him (especially with the years) if he pitches well on the backside. Assuming he pitches well, at 32 he should be able to get at least 4 year deal at more $ per year than what you said. There's also various option clauses that could be included for things like game started and the like that the Brewers could include on the back end years if he's really concerned about it.
But athletes contracts are typically all about minimizing risk. It's why you see Evan Longoria ink a six year deal one week into his career. Sure, he COULD play out of his mind and be worth far more than what he signed for. But it's tough to turn down $18 million up front. And that goes even moreseo for a pitcher, and a fat one with a heavy workload to boot.Sabathia could gamble that he'll remain healthy and effective over the next four years. But you're automatically assuming that he'll still be the same pitcher four years from now that he is today. There is no guarantee of that happening (Pedro Martinez, Jason Schmidt, Darren Dreifort, the list of FA pitchers who fizzled out quickly after signing their deals is a long one) and I doubt he takes a $50 million bet on his own success.
 
larry_boy_44 said:
Capella said:
larry_boy_44 said:
$25 M/year > $21 and 3/7 M/year
FAIL
So 25 is not larger than 22? Since when???I realize the years makes a difference, and I never said it didn't.But that doesn't change that the yearly salary in a 4/100 deal is larger than the yearly salary in a 7/150 deal...
Right, the yearly salary is higher. But these guys aren't like regular workers. They aren't working on one-year deals, and they've got to plan for their bodies to give out, especially when those bodies are approaching 300 pounds.So unless Sabathia thinks he can finish out a four year deal with the Brewers and THEN get a contract of $50 million for three years at the age of 33 AND pitch well enough and remain healthy enough to warrant it, the $150 mil guaranteed over seven years is far better than $100 mil over four.Not to mention, if the average salary thing really is the kicker, then the Yankees offer could very well be $150 for six years rather than seven. That gets them to an equal average salary to Milwaukee and gives him an extra $50 million.
That's lowballing him (especially with the years) if he pitches well on the backside. Assuming he pitches well, at 32 he should be able to get at least 4 year deal at more $ per year than what you said. There's also various option clauses that could be included for things like game started and the like that the Brewers could include on the back end years if he's really concerned about it.
But athletes contracts are typically all about minimizing risk. It's why you see Evan Longoria ink a six year deal one week into his career. Sure, he COULD play out of his mind and be worth far more than what he signed for. But it's tough to turn down $18 million up front. And that goes even moreseo for a pitcher, and a fat one with a heavy workload to boot.Sabathia could gamble that he'll remain healthy and effective over the next four years. But you're automatically assuming that he'll still be the same pitcher four years from now that he is today. There is no guarantee of that happening (Pedro Martinez, Jason Schmidt, Darren Dreifort, the list of FA pitchers who fizzled out quickly after signing their deals is a long one) and I doubt he takes a $50 million bet on his own success.
Longoria isn't a good comparison because he's not eligible for free agency until 2014. His contract ties him to Tampa until then, with two additional option years. Even if both options get exercised, Longoria will only be 30 so he'll be positioned for another big contract after it's all said and done.Sabathia is at peak value right now. This is his best chance to get paid. I agree there are no guarantees he'll be in the same bargaining position at the end of a four year deal. If I was his agent, I'd advise him to take the maximum number of years and highest aggregate amount.
 
larry_boy_44 said:
Capella said:
larry_boy_44 said:
$25 M/year > $21 and 3/7 M/year
FAIL
So 25 is not larger than 22? Since when???I realize the years makes a difference, and I never said it didn't.But that doesn't change that the yearly salary in a 4/100 deal is larger than the yearly salary in a 7/150 deal...
Right, the yearly salary is higher. But these guys aren't like regular workers. They aren't working on one-year deals, and they've got to plan for their bodies to give out, especially when those bodies are approaching 300 pounds.So unless Sabathia thinks he can finish out a four year deal with the Brewers and THEN get a contract of $50 million for three years at the age of 33 AND pitch well enough and remain healthy enough to warrant it, the $150 mil guaranteed over seven years is far better than $100 mil over four.Not to mention, if the average salary thing really is the kicker, then the Yankees offer could very well be $150 for six years rather than seven. That gets them to an equal average salary to Milwaukee and gives him an extra $50 million.
That's lowballing him (especially with the years) if he pitches well on the backside. Assuming he pitches well, at 32 he should be able to get at least 4 year deal at more $ per year than what you said. There's also various option clauses that could be included for things like game started and the like that the Brewers could include on the back end years if he's really concerned about it.
But athletes contracts are typically all about minimizing risk. It's why you see Evan Longoria ink a six year deal one week into his career. Sure, he COULD play out of his mind and be worth far more than what he signed for. But it's tough to turn down $18 million up front. And that goes even moreseo for a pitcher, and a fat one with a heavy workload to boot.Sabathia could gamble that he'll remain healthy and effective over the next four years. But you're automatically assuming that he'll still be the same pitcher four years from now that he is today. There is no guarantee of that happening (Pedro Martinez, Jason Schmidt, Darren Dreifort, the list of FA pitchers who fizzled out quickly after signing their deals is a long one) and I doubt he takes a $50 million bet on his own success.
Longoria isn't a good comparison because he's not eligible for free agency until 2014. His contract ties him to Tampa until then, with two additional option years. Even if both options get exercised, Longoria will only be 30 so he'll be positioned for another big contract after it's all said and done.Sabathia is at peak value right now. This is his best chance to get paid. I agree there are no guarantees he'll be in the same bargaining position at the end of a four year deal. If I was his agent, I'd advise him to take the maximum number of years and highest aggregate amount.
Agreed with the second part about CC being at peak value, though in the first part I wasn't comparing Longoria's situation to that of Sabathia. I was emphasizing how players will typically turn down a shot at extra money down the road for the guarantee of less money right now as long as it's still lucrative. And in that sense, Longoria is a good reference.He could've played the next few seasons, become arbitration-eligible, and picked up $10 mil per year in arbitration if he really dominated (as it looks like he might). And if he had another couple of big-time seasons between now and then, he could've signed a six year extension with Tampa in season 4 of his career that might've paid him $15 mil annually. But by signing the contract when he did, he probably cost himself many millions of dollars over the course of his career. Yes, he should be poised for a big contract at 30...but again, you're assuming he's going to be healthy and effective. That was a risk on his part, and he determined he'd rather have the money right now. Too much risk of injury, ineffectiveness, etc., to turn down that much cash one week into his career.Both he and Tampa risked a lot (Longoria risked losing money while Tampa risked signing a guy long-term who ended up being a bust), but also minimized their worst-case scenarios (Longoria's worst-case scenario being that he suffes a career-ending injury and Tampa's worst-case would be having to pay him $10 mil per year in arbitration or trading him if he became too expensive) when they agreed to that deal. So like I said, it is about minimizing risk.
 
Long term deals for pitching is always a risk, especially with the body type in this case. I'd be surprised if the team signing him does not regret the annual +20M drag on their payroll the last few years of the deal.

 
Long term deals for pitching is always a risk, especially with the body type in this case. I'd be surprised if the team signing him does not regret the annual +20M drag on their payroll the last few years of the deal.
True, but a team like the Yankees can take a bigger risk of a $20M future bust than a team with a < $80M total payroll.
 
larry_boy_44 said:
Capella said:
$25 M/year > $21 and 3/7 M/year
FAIL
So 25 is not larger than 22? Since when???I realize the years makes a difference, and I never said it didn't.But that doesn't change that the yearly salary in a 4/100 deal is larger than the yearly salary in a 7/150 deal...
Right, the yearly salary is higher. But these guys aren't like regular workers. They aren't working on one-year deals, and they've got to plan for their bodies to give out, especially when those bodies are approaching 300 pounds.So unless Sabathia thinks he can finish out a four year deal with the Brewers and THEN get a contract of $50 million for three years at the age of 33 AND pitch well enough and remain healthy enough to warrant it, the $150 mil guaranteed over seven years is far better than $100 mil over four.Not to mention, if the average salary thing really is the kicker, then the Yankees offer could very well be $150 for six years rather than seven. That gets them to an equal average salary to Milwaukee and gives him an extra $50 million.
I understand all that.I realize that the longer contract is better overall... I'm just saying that the short contract is more money per year and if CC thinks he'll be good enough to get a good contract in 4 seasons, the shorter one could actually be better long-term...and in terms of this next season, the shorter one is giving him a higher one-year salary...That's all... The Yankees offer is absolutely better...
 
larry_boy_44 said:
Capella said:
$25 M/year > $21 and 3/7 M/year
FAIL
So 25 is not larger than 22? Since when???I realize the years makes a difference, and I never said it didn't.But that doesn't change that the yearly salary in a 4/100 deal is larger than the yearly salary in a 7/150 deal...
Right, the yearly salary is higher. But these guys aren't like regular workers. They aren't working on one-year deals, and they've got to plan for their bodies to give out, especially when those bodies are approaching 300 pounds.So unless Sabathia thinks he can finish out a four year deal with the Brewers and THEN get a contract of $50 million for three years at the age of 33 AND pitch well enough and remain healthy enough to warrant it, the $150 mil guaranteed over seven years is far better than $100 mil over four.Not to mention, if the average salary thing really is the kicker, then the Yankees offer could very well be $150 for six years rather than seven. That gets them to an equal average salary to Milwaukee and gives him an extra $50 million.
if CC thinks he'll be good enough to get a good contract in 4 seasons, the shorter one could actually be better long-term
Gotcha. I just don't think he'll gamble it. And hey, he might not have to. Would anyone be shocked if his agent convinced the Yanks to go to $175/7 with the money they've got to spend?
 
I think the Dodgers have just about finished paying Kevin Brown's contract. Maybe they'll offer something too.

 
I will go on the record saying that there is no way of CC becoming a Yankee.

probably only 20% chance he remains a Brewer, but I have my fingers crossed.

One of the few gentlemen and gamers in the league and any team would be lucky to have him, you will never ever see him throw a clubhouse fit and he seems to love the fans even more than the game.

 
I will go on the record saying that there is no way of CC becoming a Yankee.probably only 20% chance he remains a Brewer, but I have my fingers crossed.One of the few gentlemen and gamers in the league and any team would be lucky to have him, you will never ever see him throw a clubhouse fit and he seems to love the fans even more than the game.
So if you think there's no way he becomes a Yankee and 20% shot of being a Brewer, where do you see him going? I could see a situation where Manny signs with someone other than the Dodgers and they get into the mix or Teixeira leaves the Angels and they make an offer. But do you think he'll take less money to go to either of those teams instead of the Yankees? Because I think we can all agree that the Yankees won't be outbid.
 
I will go on the record saying that there is no way of CC becoming a Yankee.probably only 20% chance he remains a Brewer, but I have my fingers crossed.One of the few gentlemen and gamers in the league and any team would be lucky to have him, you will never ever see him throw a clubhouse fit and he seems to love the fans even more than the game.
So if you think there's no way he becomes a Yankee and 20% shot of being a Brewer, where do you see him going? I could see a situation where Manny signs with someone other than the Dodgers and they get into the mix or Teixeira leaves the Angels and they make an offer. But do you think he'll take less money to go to either of those teams instead of the Yankees? Because I think we can all agree that the Yankees won't be outbid.
In this order:Cleveland, Braves, Dodgers, Angels, anyone else.Maybe I understated the chances of him staying a Brewer, I just think they put him through too much abuse at the end of the season in their playoff run. I don't know if CC is the type of gamer that was loving every minute of it, or if he was stressed because of what they were putting his arm through. If he would have had to pitch 2 or 3 less games down the stretch I think the chances of him staying would have been almost 50%. If he doesn't stay a Brewer or go back to Cleveland, then maybe everyone is right and he will be a Yankee. I just think it takes a certain type of person to sign a Yankee contract, regardless of the money, because of everything else they have to deal with, and I don't believe CC is that type of person.
 
I will go on the record saying that there is no way of CC becoming a Yankee.probably only 20% chance he remains a Brewer, but I have my fingers crossed.One of the few gentlemen and gamers in the league and any team would be lucky to have him, you will never ever see him throw a clubhouse fit and he seems to love the fans even more than the game.
So if you think there's no way he becomes a Yankee and 20% shot of being a Brewer, where do you see him going? I could see a situation where Manny signs with someone other than the Dodgers and they get into the mix or Teixeira leaves the Angels and they make an offer. But do you think he'll take less money to go to either of those teams instead of the Yankees? Because I think we can all agree that the Yankees won't be outbid.
In this order:Cleveland, Braves, Dodgers, Angels, anyone else.Maybe I understated the chances of him staying a Brewer, I just think they put him through too much abuse at the end of the season in their playoff run. I don't know if CC is the type of gamer that was loving every minute of it, or if he was stressed because of what they were putting his arm through. If he would have had to pitch 2 or 3 less games down the stretch I think the chances of him staying would have been almost 50%. If he doesn't stay a Brewer or go back to Cleveland, then maybe everyone is right and he will be a Yankee. I just think it takes a certain type of person to sign a Yankee contract, regardless of the money, because of everything else they have to deal with, and I don't believe CC is that type of person.
Well-written response. But I'd be shocked out of my face to see him go back to Cleveland. If he really wanted to be there and they really wanted to re-sign him, why didn't they get it done last spring? Now all that's happened is that his price tag has gone up. I understand CC's seemingly a great guy and has said all the right things, but like I said earlier, if it wasn't about money he could've instructed his agent to get a deal done in the spring for 4 years at $60 million or something to guarantee he'd stay there. The money WILL come into play a great deal more than some people think.I don't know Atlanta's financial situation, but this would likewise be a shock to me. He's from the west coast and the Braves have never shown much inclination to set the salary bar for players. Besides, I know he's Sabathia and all but do they even know that they have a spot for him in the rotation?I'd also assume teams like the Phillies and White Sox, who may have open rotation slots and larger payrolls, still don't have the cash to get it done.I'd put it like this: Yankees 60%, Dodgers 20%, Angels 15%, Brewers 4%, anyone else 1%
 
I will go on the record saying that there is no way of CC becoming a Yankee.

probably only 20% chance he remains a Brewer, but I have my fingers crossed.

One of the few gentlemen and gamers in the league and any team would be lucky to have him, you will never ever see him throw a clubhouse fit and he seems to love the fans even more than the game.
So if you think there's no way he becomes a Yankee and 20% shot of being a Brewer, where do you see him going? I could see a situation where Manny signs with someone other than the Dodgers and they get into the mix or Teixeira leaves the Angels and they make an offer. But do you think he'll take less money to go to either of those teams instead of the Yankees? Because I think we can all agree that the Yankees won't be outbid.
In this order:Cleveland, Braves, Dodgers, Angels, anyone else.

Maybe I understated the chances of him staying a Brewer, I just think they put him through too much abuse at the end of the season in their playoff run. I don't know if CC is the type of gamer that was loving every minute of it, or if he was stressed because of what they were putting his arm through. If he would have had to pitch 2 or 3 less games down the stretch I think the chances of him staying would have been almost 50%. If he doesn't stay a Brewer or go back to Cleveland, then maybe everyone is right and he will be a Yankee. I just think it takes a certain type of person to sign a Yankee contract, regardless of the money, because of everything else they have to deal with, and I don't believe CC is that type of person.
Well-written response. But I'd be shocked out of my face to see him go back to Cleveland. If he really wanted to be there and they really wanted to re-sign him, why didn't they get it done last spring? Now all that's happened is that his price tag has gone up. I understand CC's seemingly a great guy and has said all the right things, but like I said earlier, if it wasn't about money he could've instructed his agent to get a deal done in the spring for 4 years at $60 million or something to guarantee he'd stay there. The money WILL come into play a great deal more than some people think.I don't know Atlanta's financial situation, but this would likewise be a shock to me. He's from the west coast and the Braves have never shown much inclination to set the salary bar for players. Besides, I know he's Sabathia and all but do they even know that they have a spot for him in the rotation?

I'd also assume teams like the Phillies and White Sox, who may have open rotation slots and larger payrolls, still don't have the cash to get it done.

I'd put it like this: Yankees 60%, Dodgers 20%, Angels 15%, Brewers 4%, anyone else 1%
I don't know how well documented this was but a few weeks after he was traded to Milwaukee, CC took out a full page newspaper ad in Cleveland thanking the fans and organization for everything they have done for him and his family. I believe it was pretty specific about how much his wife and young kids loved the city. If the Indians didn't go in the gutter so fast in 2008 I don't think he would have been traded and he believes they did him a favor by letting him go to a contender mid-season. Any player that would go through this amount of effort for a city like Cleveland where most would cut ties and run, would have to be considered to at least have a chance at coming back.http://blog.cleveland.com/sports/2008/07/c...ain_dealer.html

ETA:

Also, I'm speaking as a homer here so take it for what its worth, but if CC is serious about winning a championship I think he has a much better shot at doing it with the Brewers in the next 4 years then with the Yankees and their aging squad the next 6 years. If he does lead the Brew Crew to a Series he will be able to more than make up that $50 million guarenteed over the last two years by signing with another squad.

 
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I will go on the record saying that there is no way of CC becoming a Yankee.probably only 20% chance he remains a Brewer, but I have my fingers crossed.One of the few gentlemen and gamers in the league and any team would be lucky to have him, you will never ever see him throw a clubhouse fit and he seems to love the fans even more than the game.
So if you think there's no way he becomes a Yankee and 20% shot of being a Brewer, where do you see him going? I could see a situation where Manny signs with someone other than the Dodgers and they get into the mix or Teixeira leaves the Angels and they make an offer. But do you think he'll take less money to go to either of those teams instead of the Yankees? Because I think we can all agree that the Yankees won't be outbid.
In this order:Cleveland, Braves, Dodgers, Angels, anyone else.Maybe I understated the chances of him staying a Brewer, I just think they put him through too much abuse at the end of the season in their playoff run. I don't know if CC is the type of gamer that was loving every minute of it, or if he was stressed because of what they were putting his arm through. If he would have had to pitch 2 or 3 less games down the stretch I think the chances of him staying would have been almost 50%. If he doesn't stay a Brewer or go back to Cleveland, then maybe everyone is right and he will be a Yankee. I just think it takes a certain type of person to sign a Yankee contract, regardless of the money, because of everything else they have to deal with, and I don't believe CC is that type of person.
lol, wat? you think there's a 20% chance CC is a Brewer, but you have 4 other teams more likely to sign him? Wanna put some percents on those other 4 teams? because remember it has to equal 100%. I'd like to see how that's possible.
 
I will go on the record saying that there is no way of CC becoming a Yankee.probably only 20% chance he remains a Brewer, but I have my fingers crossed.One of the few gentlemen and gamers in the league and any team would be lucky to have him, you will never ever see him throw a clubhouse fit and he seems to love the fans even more than the game.
So if you think there's no way he becomes a Yankee and 20% shot of being a Brewer, where do you see him going? I could see a situation where Manny signs with someone other than the Dodgers and they get into the mix or Teixeira leaves the Angels and they make an offer. But do you think he'll take less money to go to either of those teams instead of the Yankees? Because I think we can all agree that the Yankees won't be outbid.
In this order:Cleveland, Braves, Dodgers, Angels, anyone else.Maybe I understated the chances of him staying a Brewer, I just think they put him through too much abuse at the end of the season in their playoff run. I don't know if CC is the type of gamer that was loving every minute of it, or if he was stressed because of what they were putting his arm through. If he would have had to pitch 2 or 3 less games down the stretch I think the chances of him staying would have been almost 50%. If he doesn't stay a Brewer or go back to Cleveland, then maybe everyone is right and he will be a Yankee. I just think it takes a certain type of person to sign a Yankee contract, regardless of the money, because of everything else they have to deal with, and I don't believe CC is that type of person.
lol, wat? you think there's a 20% chance CC is a Brewer, but you have 4 other teams more likely to sign him? Wanna put some percents on those other 4 teams? because remember it has to equal 100%. I'd like to see how that's possible.
Ok, you got me there, I said 20% the first time because I didn't want to sound too much like a wishful thinker and I didn't want to get flamed too bad. Upon further thought I would say 60% chance, but thats probably a little too optimistic. I hope he stays because the Brewers need all the help they can get in their rotation outside of Gallardo and there isn't a lot to choose from in the FA market. I do worry about the extra stress they put on his arm last fall but it didn't seem to effect his performance at all. I'm not really a big believer in the "Some players just have rubber arms" and think that this will probably eventually catch up to him with shoulder problems.
 
Also, I'm speaking as a homer here so take it for what its worth, but if CC is serious about winning a championship I think he has a much better shot at doing it with the Brewers in the next 4 years then with the Yankees and their aging squad the next 6 years.
With all the problems and injuries the Yankees had this past year and the total disaster the season was, They won a total of 1 less game than Milwaulkee.. Now, Imagine CC was on the Yankees and the Brewers were ravaged by injuries :wub:
 
Also, I'm speaking as a homer here so take it for what its worth, but if CC is serious about winning a championship I think he has a much better shot at doing it with the Brewers in the next 4 years then with the Yankees and their aging squad the next 6 years.
With all the problems and injuries the Yankees had this past year and the total disaster the season was, They won a total of 1 less game than Milwaulkee.. Now, Imagine CC was on the Yankees and the Brewers were ravaged by injuries ;)
:confused: The aging Yankee thing held true for this year, and probably only this year. While it's true that they don't have offensive reinforcements in the minor leagues, they still have a number of all-star caliber ML hitters and could very well add Teixeira.C-Posada1B-Teixeira2B-Cano3B-ARodSS-JeterLF-NadyCF-Damon (admittedly a weak spot right now, though I expect them to make a trade to address this. Perhaps move Matsui and make Damon the DH)RF-AbreuDH-MatsuiOf that crew, only Posada/Matsui can be considered "aging". And an aging Posada is still an above average hitter for a catcher. Damon, Jeter, and Abreu are not young but they're all coming off good seasons and shouldn't fall off a cliff anytime soon.If they also sign Sabathia, the rotation would look as follows:SabathiaWangJobaPettitteHughes/MussinaWith the way the pen performed last year and a still-dominant Mariano anchoring the back end, it's not inconceivable to see the Yankees return near the top of the AL in short order. Milwaukee, on the other hand, if they sign Sabathia will have no shot at re-signing Sheets. And it'll also probably mean no money for Prince Fielder in another year or two so he would likely be dealt.As for the ad Sabathia took out for Cleveland, I took that as a classy move by a classy guy. But I, like most Cleveland fans, took it as good-bye. Not, see you in a few months.
 
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Also, I'm speaking as a homer here so take it for what its worth, but if CC is serious about winning a championship I think he has a much better shot at doing it with the Brewers in the next 4 years then with the Yankees and their aging squad the next 6 years.
With all the problems and injuries the Yankees had this past year and the total disaster the season was, They won a total of 1 less game than Milwaulkee.. Now, Imagine CC was on the Yankees and the Brewers were ravaged by injuries :confused:
Injuries really have nothing to do with it, look at what the Yankees paid to get that one last win and look what the Brewer's farm system has produced and still has waiting at bay.Give me the name of a top prospect for the Yankees? Brett Gardner is the only one I can think of that is anywhere close to major league ready. The Yankee's core is on the way wrong side of 30 and sure they can spend the money each year to bring in the talent to win games, but you need a "team" and not just talent to take home a series. The Brewer's core are still 25 or under and regardless of how much money the Steinbrenners have, Antonosio has proven himself to be a reliable decision maker and committed to putting together a winnning team.
 
rumor going around Milwaukee is that CC told the Brewers if they took the option on Cameron ($10 M this year) that he would listen to other offers, but as long as Milwaukee's offer was in the same ballpark as the other offers, he was going to come back...

and the rumors are the deal Milwaukee signed was 5 years/$100 M...

 
hooter311 said:
Reaper said:
hooter311 said:
Also, I'm speaking as a homer here so take it for what its worth, but if CC is serious about winning a championship I think he has a much better shot at doing it with the Brewers in the next 4 years then with the Yankees and their aging squad the next 6 years.
With all the problems and injuries the Yankees had this past year and the total disaster the season was, They won a total of 1 less game than Milwaulkee.. Now, Imagine CC was on the Yankees and the Brewers were ravaged by injuries :bag:
Injuries really have nothing to do with it, look at what the Yankees paid to get that one last win and look what the Brewer's farm system has produced and still has waiting at bay.Give me the name of a top prospect for the Yankees? Brett Gardner is the only one I can think of that is anywhere close to major league ready. The Yankee's core is on the way wrong side of 30 and sure they can spend the money each year to bring in the talent to win games, but you need a "team" and not just talent to take home a series. The Brewer's core are still 25 or under and regardless of how much money the Steinbrenners have, Antonosio has proven himself to be a reliable decision maker and committed to putting together a winnning team.
It takes a team to make the playoffs. It takes a lot of breaks to take home a series, and great starting pitching. Not necessarily great pitchERS but pitchING. What I mean is, for every Jake Peavy and Brandon Webb and Randy Johnson that has fizzled in the playoffs the last several years, there's a Jeff Suppan or a Kenny Rogers or a Derek Lowe who has dominated. People mistakenly think the best pitchers always win. That's not true. The team that gets the best performances from those pitchers wins. Did the Yankees have the best pitchers when they were winning the WS? Not really. But David Wells, El Duque, Cone, and Pettitte typically came up big in the playoffs for whatever reason. Those guys are nowhere near the caliber of Maddux, Smoltz, and Glavine, yet they beat those guys twice in a four-year span heads-up.People have simplified the playoffs to think that a team like the Yankees as presently constructed CAN'T win in the postseason. They point to things like egos and lineup structure and too many superstars and things of that nature. I myself was guilty of that just a few years ago. But it's ludicrous.I realize I'm going to get killed for the following statements, but...In 2003, the Yankees were an Aaron Boone flyball away from a 3-1 series lead over Florida in the WS.In 2004, they were a Mo Rivera save from sweeping Boston and playing for the WS. Then they were a Hideki Matsui sinking liner from winning. Then a Tony Clark ground rule double. Then a Jorge Posada flyball knocked down by the wind.In 2005, Bubba Crosby and Gary Sheffield collide in CF and cost them the clinching game against the Angels. And who beat them? A rookie pitcher with no postseason experience named Ervin Santana. So what teams should now do is throw rookies that have never been tested into the fire? That's the key to postseason success?In 2006, they entered the playoffs as the hottest team in baseball and were inexplicably shut down by Kenny Rogers. Verlander and Bonderman I'll give you, but Rogers? That was absurd. Do you think that one game was indicative of the quality of the team, or was it a fluke occurrence that came at a bad time?In 2007, Joba Chamberlain was attacked by a swarm of midges on the mound. Not saying they definitely win the game or series, but it certainly didn't help. Boston won 5/6 against the Yanks early in the regular season that year, but the Yankees dominated the head to head matchup after that point if I'm not mistaken. If they get by Cleveland, there's a decent chance they get by Boston. And that year, the NL forgot to show up for the World Series.See, the playoffs are a funny thing. One or two breaks go another way and you're talking about a World Championship or three. Just like during the Yankees winning run, we saw the following:In 1996, they're a Jeff Maier-aided HR from going down 0-1 to the O's. Then without the Leyritz HR in Game 4, they're down 3-1 and facing Smoltz in an elimination game in Atlanta. No way they'd have won. Did Leyritz hit that HR because the Yankees were a younger team, or did he hit the HR because Wohlers hung a slider?In 1998, El Duque saved their season after Knoblauch's brain lock. Then in the WS, they were a horrid non-call on strike 3 to Tino Martinez from heading into the 9th tied in Game 1. Then it took a HR off the bat of Scott Brosius (who had hit .205 the year before the Yankees signed him) in the 9th off Hoffman to win another one. So now the key to success is to sign guys who had horrible seasons the year before?In 2000, they finished the season horribly, limping into the playoffs. They were an Armando Benitez walk and a Timo Perez failure to hustle away from losing the Game 1 home opener to the Mets in the WS.In 2001, there were about 75 plays on either side (Jeter flip play, Giambi throwing error in game 5, Tino HR, Brosius HR, Rivera throwing error in Game 7) from having any one of those series go the other way.People on this and other forums go on and on all the time about how much the Yankees have sucked lately. But the simple fact is that during their so-called glory years, they were always a play or two away from not winning. And during these so-called down years, they've been a play or two away from playing for the whole thing. What I see is a team that certainly declined last season (after all, age is a part of injuries) but one that was still winning 95-100 games per year from 2001 to 2007 despite no rings. And despite the decline last year, they were within striking distance of a playoff spot when they lost Joba in late August...after having lost Wang and his 19 wins in June.If anyone is going to suggest that a team that is poised to lose its number 2 starter and has made the playoffs once since 1982 has a better shot at a championship than a team that has been in the playoffs all but once since 1994, I don't think I need to say anything other than what I just did.
 
In 1926, Babe Ruth was thrown out trying to steal second for the final out of World Series Game 7.

 
In 1996 I ate popcorn and then ####ed my girlfriend during the World Series.

 
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hooter311 said:
Reaper said:
hooter311 said:
Also, I'm speaking as a homer here so take it for what its worth, but if CC is serious about winning a championship I think he has a much better shot at doing it with the Brewers in the next 4 years then with the Yankees and their aging squad the next 6 years.
With all the problems and injuries the Yankees had this past year and the total disaster the season was, They won a total of 1 less game than Milwaulkee.. Now, Imagine CC was on the Yankees and the Brewers were ravaged by injuries :confused:
Injuries really have nothing to do with it, look at what the Yankees paid to get that one last win and look what the Brewer's farm system has produced and still has waiting at bay.Give me the name of a top prospect for the Yankees? Brett Gardner is the only one I can think of that is anywhere close to major league ready. The Yankee's core is on the way wrong side of 30 and sure they can spend the money each year to bring in the talent to win games, but you need a "team" and not just talent to take home a series. The Brewer's core are still 25 or under and regardless of how much money the Steinbrenners have, Antonosio has proven himself to be a reliable decision maker and committed to putting together a winnning team.
It takes a team to make the playoffs. It takes a lot of breaks to take home a series, and great starting pitching. Not necessarily great pitchERS but pitchING. What I mean is, for every Jake Peavy and Brandon Webb and Randy Johnson that has fizzled in the playoffs the last several years, there's a Jeff Suppan or a Kenny Rogers or a Derek Lowe who has dominated. People mistakenly think the best pitchers always win. That's not true. The team that gets the best performances from those pitchers wins. Did the Yankees have the best pitchers when they were winning the WS? Not really. But David Wells, El Duque, Cone, and Pettitte typically came up big in the playoffs for whatever reason. Those guys are nowhere near the caliber of Maddux, Smoltz, and Glavine, yet they beat those guys twice in a four-year span heads-up.People have simplified the playoffs to think that a team like the Yankees as presently constructed CAN'T win in the postseason. They point to things like egos and lineup structure and too many superstars and things of that nature. I myself was guilty of that just a few years ago. But it's ludicrous.I realize I'm going to get killed for the following statements, but...In 2003, the Yankees were an Aaron Boone flyball away from a 3-1 series lead over Florida in the WS.In 2004, they were a Mo Rivera save from sweeping Boston and playing for the WS. Then they were a Hideki Matsui sinking liner from winning. Then a Tony Clark ground rule double. Then a Jorge Posada flyball knocked down by the wind.In 2005, Bubba Crosby and Gary Sheffield collide in CF and cost them the clinching game against the Angels. And who beat them? A rookie pitcher with no postseason experience named Ervin Santana. So what teams should now do is throw rookies that have never been tested into the fire? That's the key to postseason success?In 2006, they entered the playoffs as the hottest team in baseball and were inexplicably shut down by Kenny Rogers. Verlander and Bonderman I'll give you, but Rogers? That was absurd. Do you think that one game was indicative of the quality of the team, or was it a fluke occurrence that came at a bad time?In 2007, Joba Chamberlain was attacked by a swarm of midges on the mound. Not saying they definitely win the game or series, but it certainly didn't help. Boston won 5/6 against the Yanks early in the regular season that year, but the Yankees dominated the head to head matchup after that point if I'm not mistaken. If they get by Cleveland, there's a decent chance they get by Boston. And that year, the NL forgot to show up for the World Series.See, the playoffs are a funny thing. One or two breaks go another way and you're talking about a World Championship or three. Just like during the Yankees winning run, we saw the following:In 1996, they're a Jeff Maier-aided HR from going down 0-1 to the O's. Then without the Leyritz HR in Game 4, they're down 3-1 and facing Smoltz in an elimination game in Atlanta. No way they'd have won. Did Leyritz hit that HR because the Yankees were a younger team, or did he hit the HR because Wohlers hung a slider?In 1998, El Duque saved their season after Knoblauch's brain lock. Then in the WS, they were a horrid non-call on strike 3 to Tino Martinez from heading into the 9th tied in Game 1. Then it took a HR off the bat of Scott Brosius (who had hit .205 the year before the Yankees signed him) in the 9th off Hoffman to win another one. So now the key to success is to sign guys who had horrible seasons the year before?In 2000, they finished the season horribly, limping into the playoffs. They were an Armando Benitez walk and a Timo Perez failure to hustle away from losing the Game 1 home opener to the Mets in the WS.In 2001, there were about 75 plays on either side (Jeter flip play, Giambi throwing error in game 5, Tino HR, Brosius HR, Rivera throwing error in Game 7) from having any one of those series go the other way.People on this and other forums go on and on all the time about how much the Yankees have sucked lately. But the simple fact is that during their so-called glory years, they were always a play or two away from not winning. And during these so-called down years, they've been a play or two away from playing for the whole thing. What I see is a team that certainly declined last season (after all, age is a part of injuries) but one that was still winning 95-100 games per year from 2001 to 2007 despite no rings. And despite the decline last year, they were within striking distance of a playoff spot when they lost Joba in late August...after having lost Wang and his 19 wins in June.If anyone is going to suggest that a team that is poised to lose its number 2 starter and has made the playoffs once since 1982 has a better shot at a championship than a team that has been in the playoffs all but once since 1994, I don't think I need to say anything other than what I just did.
WOW... Excellent post. "The Midges" THAT was th emost unbelievable thing.And I've said that all along.. When the Yankees were considered a dynasty people acted like "Oh well, they're that much better and spend that much money, they SHOULD win"..... But, Damn, it was NEVER easy.... And I don't think it's ever easy for any team.But, Bottom line, that horrible Yankee team of 07' won 89 games - They have 80 million to spend and with the new stadium, I'm not declaring or guaranteeing anything but, a competitive team that If healthy and on a roll going into the playoffs, will have as a good a shot as most teams.... We'll see maybe one team will absolutely dominate... And that's not being a "cocky" Yankee fan - that's just the reality of MLB....Talk in the papers in NY today is the Yankees trading Melky, Cabrera and a pitching prospect for Cameron.
 
Shapiro said to not exclude the Indians from negotiations, and that if CC was considering Milwaukee's offer of $100/5 then he'd like a shot at making an offer. So it sounds like the Tribe would max out around that number.

Article goes on to say more of the rest of what we've all been saying here.

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