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British tourist says her vacation in Spain was ruined because there were lots of Spanish people (1 Viewer)

Al O'Pecia

Footballguy
It’s times like these that I remember that we’re not the only nation with a bunch of racist idiots in it. 
Is it really racism if Spaniards and Brits are the same race?

Plus I've been told that racism requires power.  How much power does a tourist in a foreign nation have?

 

Henry Ford

Footballguy
Is it really racism if Spaniards and Brits are the same race?

Plus I've been told that racism requires power.  How much power does a tourist in a foreign nation have?
1. Your position is that people from Spain are not Hispanic, then?

2. There are multiple definitions of racism - and power.  Which is one of the reasons the topic is so complex. 

 

Henry Ford

Footballguy
Fwiw, the like was for most countries being full of racist idiots.

Didn't know I was stepping into the middle of whatever that is
I don’t get it. Lately he just enjoys taking pot shots.  It’s not a big deal, but I’m not entirely sure where it comes from. 

 

rockaction

Footballguy
Fwiw, the like was for most countries being full of racist idiots.

Didn't know I was stepping into the middle of whatever that is
I know, Flop. I don't really know what it is either. I was using "you" in the general sense. Henry ain't a big fan of mine.  

 

GroveDiesel

Footballguy
Fwiw, the like was for most countries being full of racist idiots.
It's shocking how many racists we have in the US and it is imperative for us to continue to work to educate people and eliminate racism.

But it's also good to remember that racism is a general human condition that exists everywhere and that the US is actually much better off than a large chunk of the world.  (Not that it's good that people are racist in general, but I think sometimes we mistakenly view America as especially racist and awful and that's really not true.)

 

Al O'Pecia

Footballguy
1. Your position is that people from Spain are not Hispanic, then?
No, they're Hispanic, but my position is that Hispanic is not a racial category based on genetics.  It's a classification that entails a shared language and/or culture.  That's why someone with predominantly Afro DNA like Sammy Sosa and someone with predominantly Euro DNA like Andy Garcia are both considered Hispanic.

For the most part, native Brits and native Spaniards are both considered Caucasians.

 

Henry Ford

Footballguy
No, they're Hispanic, but my position is that Hispanic is not a racial category based on genetics.  It's a classification that entails a shared language and/or culture.  That's why someone with predominantly Afro DNA like Sammy Sosa and someone with predominantly Euro DNA like Andy Garcia are both considered Hispanic.

For the most part, native Brits and native Spaniards are both considered Caucasians.
I two scary revelations:

1. For the most part, race isn’t genetic. Or rather, genetics makes race look like a joke.  There’s more biodiversity in African people of one “race” than there is in the rest of the world combined.

2. If you require people to understand genetics to be racist, there’s going to be some difficulty coming up with a working definition for whatever other word we’re going to use for my neighbor with the super racist lawn jockeys.  

 
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El Floppo

Footballguy
It's shocking how many racists we have in the US and it is imperative for us to continue to work to educate people and eliminate racism.

But it's also good to remember that racism is a general human condition that exists everywhere and that the US is actually much better off than a large chunk of the world.  (Not that it's good that people are racist in general, but I think sometimes we mistakenly view America as especially racist and awful and that's really not true.)
A lot of countries didn't populate themselves with a visible minorty through slavery though. 

That said, a lot of countries are still mostly homogenous, so people that are visibly diverse are especially so.

 

Al O'Pecia

Footballguy
I two scary revelations:

1. For the most part, race isn’t genetic. Or rather, genetics makes race look like a joke.  
1. That's simply not true according to numerous geneticists based on findings in the field.  

https://www.google.com/amp/nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/amp/2018/03/denying-genetics-isnt-shutting-down-racism-its-fueling-it.html

2.  Even if your point were true, which it isn't, it still doesn't change the fact that "Hispanic" is considered a cultural category rather than racial category.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hispanic

 
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GroveDiesel

Footballguy
A lot of countries didn't populate themselves with a visible minorty through slavery though. 

That said, a lot of countries are still mostly homogenous, so people that are visibly diverse are especially so.
You're right of course, but our diversity is from more than just slavery too. 

And a lot of those countries remain homogenous because they've chosen that for a long time. For instance, it's easy to think that Nordic countries don't have racism issues, when the truth is that they've intentionally limited immigration to remain homogenous. We certainly deal with pushback now, but no country in the world has celebrated the idea of diversity like the US. 

 

thayman

Footballguy
You're right of course, but our diversity is from more than just slavery too. 

And a lot of those countries remain homogenous because they've chosen that for a long time. For instance, it's easy to think that Nordic countries don't have racism issues, when the truth is that they've intentionally limited immigration to remain homogenous. We certainly deal with pushback now, but no country in the world has celebrated the idea of diversity like the US. 
Tolerated would be a better word.  

 

Yankee23Fan

Fair Tax!
Story about stupid person turns into slap fight amongst strangers.  You'll never believe why!

Having said that, which I found funny, so you better have laughed a little, both of you, wow, why too many commas, but I think it is still grammatically correct, or not; I digress.  My recent trip to Montreal has totally convinced me that we need to force people to travel to other countries and even to other regions within their own.  I have never had any training in French at all on any level and I was as close to a fish out of water as you could be when it came to communication and had I not embraced the fact that I was the one that needed to work on that, I would have had a miserable time in a fantastic city.

We need to embrace our differences and see the world from other people's eyes more.  Or not.  Pulling everything in closer and hating everyone and everything outside the lines we draw only makes us more alone in the end.  And that is no fun.

At all. 

 

El Floppo

Footballguy
You're right of course, but our diversity is from more than just slavery too. 

And a lot of those countries remain homogenous because they've chosen that for a long time. For instance, it's easy to think that Nordic countries don't have racism issues, when the truth is that they've intentionally limited immigration to remain homogenous. We certainly deal with pushback now, but no country in the world has celebrated the idea of diversity like the US. 
Exactly so. Although the French and Dutch are pretty good in that regard.

 

Henry Ford

Footballguy
1. That's simply not true according to numerous geneticists based on findings in the field.  

https://www.google.com/amp/nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/amp/2018/03/denying-genetics-isnt-shutting-down-racism-its-fueling-it.html

2.  Even if your point were true, which it isn't, it still doesn't change the fact that "Hispanic" is considered a cultural category rather than racial category.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hispanic
Yeah, it is true. 

https://news.nationalgeographic.com/2017/10/genetics-history-race-neanderthal-rutherford/

And that’s my point.  Even when we use skin color, eye shape, etc, we’re really separating by culture more than biodiversity as evidenced by the fact that we don’t separate the diversity in African backgrounds. 

Is treating Middle Easterners as lesser beings racist? Because they’re Caucasian, too.  But their culture means we use “Middle Eastern/Arab” as a racial classification now. We just don’t separate things that way.  We do a lot of ethnic classification and call it race, which was one point in saying racism has a lot of different definitions.

Regardless, yes, you can be racist against Hispanic people. At the very least, “racism” includes ethnic discrimination. 

 
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I two scary revelations:

1. For the most part, race isn’t genetic. Or rather, genetics makes race look like a joke.  There’s more biodiversity in African people of one “race” than there is in the rest of the world combined.

2. If you require people to understand genetics to be racist, there’s going to be some difficulty coming up with a working definition for whatever other word we’re going to use for my neighbor with the super racist lawn jockeys.  
I have not seen any of those in 50 years.  That said, I did see some in my youth in Wisconsin.  Amazing to me that they are still around.  I guess it shouldn't be, but it is.

 
Yeah, it is true. 

https://news.nationalgeographic.com/2017/10/genetics-history-race-neanderthal-rutherford/

And that’s my point.  Even when we use skin color, eye shape, etc, we’re really separating by culture more than biodiversity as evidenced by the fact that we don’t separate the diversity in African backgrounds. 

Is treating Middle Easterners as lesser beings racist? Because they’re Caucasian, too.  But their culture means we use “Middle Eastern/Arab” as a racial classification now. We just don’t separate things that way.  We do a lot of ethnic classification and call it race, which was one point in saying racism has a lot of different definitions.

Regardless, yes, you can be racist against Hispanic people. At the very least, “racism” includes ethnic discrimination. 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wc0SKvLNdgs

 

Henry Ford

Footballguy
I have seen examples of the second in my time, but never the first.  Amazing. Seems to me he is sort of inviting an ###-kicking, but perhaps I just do not understand the culture having been raised elsewhere. 
"Culture" is a strong word, but yes.  Welcome to rural Louisiana.

 
"Culture" is a strong word, but yes.  Welcome to rural Louisiana.
The guy actually displays that first one, like in his front yard, or on his front porch?  Remarkable.  What happens if he gets a UPS delivery and the delivery driver is African American and he decides to ask what Brown can do for him?

 
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Henry Ford

Footballguy
The guy actually displays that first one, like in his front yard, or on his front porch?  Remarkable.  what happens if he gets a UPS delivery and the delivery driver is African American and he decides to ask what Brown can do for him?
First, yes, it's on his side porch, which attaches to his front porch.

Second, that is not the worst thing an African American has to deal with in my community.  And our mail carrier is, in fact, a black man.  He shakes his head and leaves the mail.  Just as he does with the guy down the street with a Confederate flag.

 
First, yes, it's on his side porch, which attaches to his front porch.

Second, that is not the worst thing an African American has to deal with in my community.  And our mail carrier is, in fact, a black man.  He shakes his head and leaves the mail.  Just as he does with the guy down the street with a Confederate flag.
Your mail carrier sounds like a man of great maturity.  I suppose one has to pick their battles.  Too bad some want to force battles upon others, but there it is, I guess.

 

SoBeDad

Footballguy
The US census bureau has an ethnicity category 'Hispanic'. Hispanics can be any race - look at Shakira, Evo Morales, Hispanic Ashkenazi and Sephardic Jews, Sammy Sosa, etc for racial/genetic diversity. Some of the worse racist comments I've heard were in Bolivia in the 1990s by the upper class toward the majority indigenous. Now, Bolivia has an 'indigenous' president and many indigenous have prospered, in spite of some socialist policies. 

Language differences fuels some suspicion and racism toward Hispanics in South Florida. 

 
For I am already being poured out like a drink offering, and the time of my departure is at hand. I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith.  Sadly, I appear to have lost the race.  I wonder if those appearances are accurate.

 

Ilov80s

Footballguy
My MIL winters in Cancun and I stay for a week every New Years. It's a resort/time-share but she hates it when there are other Mexicans staying there. Now my MIL is Mexican American. She speaks Spanish, she grew up in Mexicantown in Detroit, most of her family lives in the Brownstown area near the Mexican border,etc. She loves the workers at the resort (Mayans) but hates it when Mexican vacationers come in from Mexico City. They tend to be lighter skinned and in her opinion are total #######s to the workers. 

 

Osaurus

Footballguy
My MIL winters in Cancun and I stay for a week every New Years. It's a resort/time-share but she hates it when there are other Mexicans staying there. Now my MIL is Mexican American. She speaks Spanish, she grew up in Mexicantown in Detroit, most of her family lives in the Brownstown area near the Mexican border,etc. She loves the workers at the resort (Mayans) but hates it when Mexican vacationers come in from Mexico City. They tend to be lighter skinned and in her opinion are total #######s to the workers. 
:oldunsure:

 

The Big Guy

Fear the Blitz
Well if we are going there, I offer New Jersey as...…. well, a representation of everything that is wrong with humanity.
Funny as it sounds, I like to think of NJ as a lot of what is right with humanity. All jokes aside, this state has something for everyone and a fair quantity of everyone in it.

 

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