Broncos RB. (2 Viewers)

[pantherclub]

Ball was cut - didn't make the 53.

eta: link

dude

 

[Adam Harstad]

looks like CJ made the final 53:

C.J. Anderson ‏@CjAndersonRB92h
I'm a bronco

I'm happy about this. There's no way they were sneaking him through waivers, and it's not like they'll suffer so many injuries that they'll need their 4th RB in the next week or two before he gets back.

 

[ninerfanatic492000]

I know the hillman haters will throw rocks at this...but, it's possible that Fox wanted to get him a few carries to help get the yips out of Ronnies head. I think he was in there for only 3 plays...and his 2nd carry was an ankle tackle away from a long td. If nothing else, I think Hillman may have replinished a small amount of confidence.

Quite literally anyone who is unbiased would say the same thing. Hillman looks the best of the 3.......if he can overcome fumbling the offense is so much better and explosive

I'm a Ball owner (and Moreno in one league) and I think Hillman has looked the best by far from what I've seen (fumbles aside of course). I hope he falls flat on his face but he's looked the most dangerous to me.

 

[One]

I know the hillman haters will throw rocks at this...but, it's possible that Fox wanted to get him a few carries to help get the yips out of Ronnies head. I think he was in there for only 3 plays...and his 2nd carry was an ankle tackle away from a long td. If nothing else, I think Hillman may have replinished a small amount of confidence.

Quite literally anyone who is unbiased would say the same thing. Hillman looks the best of the 3.......if he can overcome fumbling the offense is so much better and explosiveI'm a Ball owner (and Moreno in one league) and I think Hillman has looked the best by far from what I've seen (fumbles aside of course). I hope he falls flat on his face but he's looked the most dangerous to me.

I agree, Hillman looks the best, but Ball looks like pretty darn good at GL.

 

[monk]

I find it interesting that people think Moreno will be the lead share holder when last year he only played a role when they had to play him. The team has been reluctant to make him the primary ball carrier and each year brought in someone else to run the ball. That still to me tells me that Moreno is not viewed as a main ball carrier or with long term potential in Denver, no matter how much coach speak there is to talk him up. Maybe Moreno will see a little more work in the beginning of the season, but the current coaching staff in DEN drafted Bell and Hillman and will coach them up and eventually both will have bigger roles than Moreno.

Why do people make things up to make hemselves feel better about their position? Every team needs more than 1 running back and Moreno has injury concerns so of course other RBS are involved

• rookie season easily led the team in carries
• 2nd season easily lead the team in carriees despite getting injured
• 3rd season injured almost the entire season
• 4th season - Despite all of the previous injuries was #2 behind Mcghee who was a solid veteran RB
• 5th Season - Again overcoming injuries and seems to be favorite for starting role

 

[monk]

I know the hillman haters will throw rocks at this...but, it's possible that Fox wanted to get him a few carries to help get the yips out of Ronnies head. I think he was in there for only 3 plays...and his 2nd carry was an ankle tackle away from a long td. If nothing else, I think Hillman may have replinished a small amount of confidence.

Quite literally anyone who is unbiased would say the same thing. Hillman looks the best of the 3.......if he can overcome fumbling the offense is so much better and explosiveI'm a Ball owner (and Moreno in one league) and I think Hillman has looked the best by far from what I've seen (fumbles aside of course). I hope he falls flat on his face but he's looked the most dangerous to me.

I agree, Hillman looks the best, but Ball looks like pretty darn good at GL.

Hillman looks the worst all around (Pass protection , fumbling, power are all major problems)

Ball looks the best running (Pass protection, receiving ? a concern)

Moreno best all around (Best Pass protection, Best Receiver and solid not spectacular runner, more power than Hillman less than Ball. injuries are a concern)

 

[Adam Harstad]

I find it interesting that people think Moreno will be the lead share holder when last year he only played a role when they had to play him. The team has been reluctant to make him the primary ball carrier and each year brought in someone else to run the ball. That still to me tells me that Moreno is not viewed as a main ball carrier or with long term potential in Denver, no matter how much coach speak there is to talk him up. Maybe Moreno will see a little more work in the beginning of the season, but the current coaching staff in DEN drafted Bell and Hillman and will coach them up and eventually both will have bigger roles than Moreno.

Why do people make things up to make hemselves feel better about their position? Every team needs more than 1 running back and Moreno has injury concerns so of course other RBS are involved

• rookie season easily led the team in carries
• 2nd season easily lead the team in carriees despite getting injured
• 3rd season injured almost the entire season
• 4th season - Despite all of the previous injuries was #2 behind Mcghee who was a solid veteran RB
• 5th Season - Again overcoming injuries and seems to be favorite for starting role

Yudkin didn't make anything up at all. Yudkin's take is right on the money.

Moreno's first two seasons came under McDaniels and the coaching staff that drafted him. Of course he easily led the team in carries- the team spent a first round pick on him, he was "their guy". Then John Fox came to town. Let's review what's happened since then.

2011- Despite having a young 1st round pick with back-to-back seasons of nearly 1200 yards, Denver gave Willis McGahee a 4-year, $10 million contract. That's not the kind of money you pay to a clear backup. Knowshon Moreno got injured in week 1, and questionable in week 2 and 3 (receiving no carries in either game), but he was probable in week 4 and 5, had a bye in week 6, and didn't even appear on the injury report in weeks 7, 8, 9, or 10 So that's 6 games where Moreno was probable or better, and he had a whopping 29 carries in those six games, or fewer than 5 a game. Half of those carries came in a single game, when Willis McGahee was injured and out. In other words, a completely healthy Moreno was a clear and unequivocal backup for half a season before he finally suffered his season-ending injury.

2012- Despite having both McGahee and Moreno, Denver drafted another RB in the 3rd round. Knowshon Moreno had 8 carries in the first 2 games, and then was a game-day inactive for 8 consecutive weeks. Denver decided that Knowshon Moreno wasn't even good enough to be listed among its top-46 players on gameday. Denver activated three RBs, and Knowshon Moreno wasn't one of them. Then McGahee got hurt, Hillman lost 20 pounds (and sucked, besides), and Denver reluctantly turned the job over to Moreno, who had a solid finish to the season that was really unremarkable in any way except for the sheer volume of touches he received.

2013- As a reward for his work in 2012, Denver drafted an RB in the 2nd round and demoted Moreno back to the 3rd string again. They gave Moreno very few carries with the 1st string offense. He was always the 3rd RB into the game during preseason.

Given this history, what about the statement "The team has been reluctant to make him the primary ball carrier and each year brought in someone else to run the ball" would you say is not true? I would say giving him an average of under 5 carries a game when healthy, deactivating him for half a season, and not giving him any 1st string reps during the offseason demonstrates a reluctance to make him the primary ball-carrier; this ignores all of the comments from the coaches and teammates, as well. It's a demonstrable fact that Denver has brought in someone else to run the ball every year- McGahee in 2011, Hillman in 2012, Ball in 2013. I would call that statement clearly true. Maybe things change going forward, but to this point, that is a very fair and accurate assessment of Moreno's career under John Fox.

 

[Adam Harstad]

I know the hillman haters will throw rocks at this...but, it's possible that Fox wanted to get him a few carries to help get the yips out of Ronnies head. I think he was in there for only 3 plays...and his 2nd carry was an ankle tackle away from a long td. If nothing else, I think Hillman may have replinished a small amount of confidence.

Quite literally anyone who is unbiased would say the same thing. Hillman looks the best of the 3.......if he can overcome fumbling the offense is so much better and explosiveI'm a Ball owner (and Moreno in one league) and I think Hillman has looked the best by far from what I've seen (fumbles aside of course). I hope he falls flat on his face but he's looked the most dangerous to me.

I agree, Hillman looks the best, but Ball looks like pretty darn good at GL.

Hillman looks the worst all around (Pass protection , fumbling, power are all major problems)

Ball looks the best running (Pass protection, receiving ? a concern)

Moreno best all around (Best Pass protection, Best Receiver and solid not spectacular runner, more power than Hillman less than Ball. injuries are a concern)

There's no concerns about Hillman's pass protection.

 

[Adam Harstad]

Denver releases the first depth chart of the season. Hillman at #1, Ball at #2, Moreno at #3.

http://www.denverbroncos.com/team/depth-chart.html

 

[purestrength]

**** I guess they aren't that serious about winning a Super Bowl before Manning retires after all.

 

[monk]

I know the hillman haters will throw rocks at this...but, it's possible that Fox wanted to get him a few carries to help get the yips out of Ronnies head. I think he was in there for only 3 plays...and his 2nd carry was an ankle tackle away from a long td. If nothing else, I think Hillman may have replinished a small amount of confidence.

Quite literally anyone who is unbiased would say the same thing. Hillman looks the best of the 3.......if he can overcome fumbling the offense is so much better and explosiveI'm a Ball owner (and Moreno in one league) and I think Hillman has looked the best by far from what I've seen (fumbles aside of course). I hope he falls flat on his face but he's looked the most dangerous to me.

I agree, Hillman looks the best, but Ball looks like pretty darn good at GL.

Hillman looks the worst all around (Pass protection , fumbling, power are all major problems)

Ball looks the best running (Pass protection, receiving ? a concern)

Moreno best all around (Best Pass protection, Best Receiver and solid not spectacular runner, more power than Hillman less than Ball. injuries are a concern)

There's no concerns about Hillman's pass protection.

You may not be concerned but Denver is ... google it there's plenty about it

Here's one quote but there's plenty more

At the same time, Hillman definitely has some room to grow though. He’s been criticized for his “pass-protection” skills.

 

[GECKO]

We are talking Fox and protecting Manning. Moreno should be the start until the young backs can mature and protect. If that even happnes. Can't see it any other way.

 

[Adam Harstad]

I know the hillman haters will throw rocks at this...but, it's possible that Fox wanted to get him a few carries to help get the yips out of Ronnies head. I think he was in there for only 3 plays...and his 2nd carry was an ankle tackle away from a long td. If nothing else, I think Hillman may have replinished a small amount of confidence.

Quite literally anyone who is unbiased would say the same thing. Hillman looks the best of the 3.......if he can overcome fumbling the offense is so much better and explosiveI'm a Ball owner (and Moreno in one league) and I think Hillman has looked the best by far from what I've seen (fumbles aside of course). I hope he falls flat on his face but he's looked the most dangerous to me.

I agree, Hillman looks the best, but Ball looks like pretty darn good at GL.

Hillman looks the worst all around (Pass protection , fumbling, power are all major problems)

Ball looks the best running (Pass protection, receiving ? a concern)

Moreno best all around (Best Pass protection, Best Receiver and solid not spectacular runner, more power than Hillman less than Ball. injuries are a concern)

There's no concerns about Hillman's pass protection.

You may not be concerned but Denver is ... google it there's plenty about it

Here's one quote but there's plenty more

At the same time, Hillman definitely has some room to grow though. He’s been criticized for his “pass-protection” skills.

That's from a Bleacher Report article written in April. Find me something from August criticizing his pass protection. Hillman put in a lot of work, and is much improved from his rookie season.

Here's the Woody Paige of the Denver Post on July 28th:

Hillman is more comfortable and, Fox told me, "tenacious." Gaze said Hillman has made the second-year leap, and his blocking has improved.

Here's Mike Klis from the same paper on July 31st:

That Hillman has maintained his No. 1 spot on the tailback depth chart from Day One of the 2013 preseason speaks to his improvement in blocking for quarterback Peyton Manning.

The Broncos official site on May 24th:

One of his biggest leaps in improvement came in blitz pickup as a blocker... Through three days of OTAs, the team’s coaches have already seen an improvement in the pass-blocking abilities of the second-year running back.

“The thing that he’s shown us the last three days is at least his aggressiveness and willingness to go attack the blitzer,” Offensive Coordinator Adam Gase said. “That’s what we need to see. When we get in pads, that’s going to be a different deal as far as, OK, is he going to be able to sustain and do it consistently? I think he will."

 

[eefflrat]

Just saw a tweet that Hillman was named starter

 

[leave a whisper]

Just saw a tweet that Hillman was named starter

I just saw the same NFL.com as well

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

what a mess.

 

[Kenny Powers]

Im doing the Ronnie Hillman 13th round shuffle right now

 

[weebs]

Im doing the Ronnie Hillman 13th round shuffle right now

Until the third run and fumble by hillman, then you will be doing the Ronnie hillman face palm

 

[Kenny Powers]

Im doing the Ronnie Hillman 13th round shuffle right now

Until the third run and fumble by hillman, then you will be doing the Ronnie hillman face palm

Not really. I took him in the 13th round so there's pretty much nothing to lose. If Knowshon and Ball overtake him, so be it.

 

[Shutout]

Im doing the Ronnie Hillman 13th round shuffle right now

Until the third run and fumble by hillman, then you will be doing the Ronnie hillman face palm

Not really. I took him in the 13th round so there's pretty much nothing to lose. If Knowshon and Ball overtake him, so be it.

But can you start him with any confidence at all in fantasy? Honestly, had they came out and said Ball is our guy, I think you could. If they had said Moreno is our guy, I think we could because we get the pass protection aspect. But with hillman, this has " you're the guy...until someone brings heat or until we get to the redzone" written all over it.

Ther Weill probably be a thread dedicated to this coming this week of people who started hillman. I don't think it will take long considering the first opponent. I just don't see how I could, as a hillman owner, have him as a starter if I have any other options. This seems like a "congradudolences" thing. Congrats, you have the listed starter but you probably will have to watch these games for 2-3 weeks to understand when you can actually play him.

 

[LinusMarr]

Im doing the Ronnie Hillman 13th round shuffle right now

Until the third run and fumble by hillman, then you will be doing the Ronnie hillman face palm

Not really. I took him in the 13th round so there's pretty much nothing to lose. If Knowshon and Ball overtake him, so be it.

But can you start him with any confidence at all in fantasy? Honestly, had they came out and said Ball is our guy, I think you could. If they had said Moreno is our guy, I think we could because we get the pass protection aspect. But with hillman, this has " you're the guy...until someone brings heat or until we get to the redzone" written all over it.

Ther Weill probably be a thread dedicated to this coming this week of people who started hillman. I don't think it will take long considering the first opponent. I just don't see how I could, as a hillman owner, have him as a starter if I have any other options. This seems like a "congradudolences" thing. Congrats, you have the listed starter but you probably will have to watch these games for 2-3 weeks to understand when you can actually play him.

I have him in a couple of leagues, no way can I start him with any confidence lol

 

[Adam Harstad]

Im doing the Ronnie Hillman 13th round shuffle right now

Until the third run and fumble by hillman, then you will be doing the Ronnie hillman face palm

Not really. I took him in the 13th round so there's pretty much nothing to lose. If Knowshon and Ball overtake him, so be it.

But can you start him with any confidence at all in fantasy? Honestly, had they came out and said Ball is our guy, I think you could. If they had said Moreno is our guy, I think we could because we get the pass protection aspect. But with hillman, this has " you're the guy...until someone brings heat or until we get to the redzone" written all over it.

Ther Weill probably be a thread dedicated to this coming this week of people who started hillman. I don't think it will take long considering the first opponent. I just don't see how I could, as a hillman owner, have him as a starter if I have any other options. This seems like a "congradudolences" thing. Congrats, you have the listed starter but you probably will have to watch these games for 2-3 weeks to understand when you can actually play him.

I can agree with this. In leagues where I own Hillman and Ball, I'm really conflicted on who to start in week 1, in a way I wouldn't be if Ball or Moreno were 1st string on the depth chart. I expect Hillman to get most of the touches, but Ball to have the highest chance at a TD.

Cross-posting this from another thread:

Last year, Denver's backs combined for 449 carries for 1829 yards (4.06 ypc) with 12 TDs, plus another 65/518/1 receiving. That's good for 312.7 fantasy points in standard scoring leagues. I would expect the rushing TD total to come up, as well as the YPC some (I'd be hard-pressed to see Denver rushing for barely 4 ypc again given the amount of nickel defense they'll be facing- especially because Moreno was the primary reason it was so low, and Moreno's running 3rd on the depth chart). Call it 450 carries for 1935 yards (4.3 ypc) with 15 TDs, with maybe 60/500/2 receiving, or 345.5 points. Assume that 10% of that is going to go to Hester and Anderson (last season, Denver's 4th and 5th RBs were Hester and Lance Ball, who got 17.5% of the fantasy points... but that was largely a result of McGahee's injury). That leaves 311 points left to divide among Hillman, Ball, and Moreno.

Over the last 5 years, the average RB24 has scored 140 fantasy points in standard. The average RB18 has scored 164 fantasy points. Assuming all of my projections to this point are in the ballpark, and there's 311 fantasy points to divide among Hillman, Ball, and Moreno, oneback will need to score 45% of the fantasy points in order to be a very low-end RB2, or 53% of the fantasy points to be a middle-of-the-road RB2. Assuming the split won't be a perfect 33/33/33/ split (hint: it won't), then either of those are totally achievable. If it's 40/40/20, you've got a pair of crappy RB2s / fantastic flex plays. If the split is 50/30/20, you've got a very credible RB2 and a crappy flex play. If one of the three gets injured, you're either looking at a fantasy RB1 or else a fantasy RB2 + flex-worthy backup.

As it stands, I see Moreno getting maybe 20% of the split. I think he'll be the primary back when Denver's in its 2-minute offense, but in standard game situations, I expect him to be the 3rd option just like the depth chart says he is. That means either one of Hillman or Ball will almost certainly be startable (but underwhelming- we're talking low-to-middle-end RB2), or both will be flex-able.

At least, that's how I see everything playing out. There's a lot of risk inherent in the situation (I feel like my projections are realistic, but if Denver underperforms them, or if the split winds up closer to 33/33/33, or if C.J. Anderson throws his hat into the ring, you could be burning multiple roster spots on players who are completely unstartable, even as a flex). At the same time, there's a lot of upside, too.

 

[monk]

I know the hillman haters will throw rocks at this...but, it's possible that Fox wanted to get him a few carries to help get the yips out of Ronnies head. I think he was in there for only 3 plays...and his 2nd carry was an ankle tackle away from a long td. If nothing else, I think Hillman may have replinished a small amount of confidence.

Quite literally anyone who is unbiased would say the same thing. Hillman looks the best of the 3.......if he can overcome fumbling the offense is so much better and explosiveI'm a Ball owner (and Moreno in one league) and I think Hillman has looked the best by far from what I've seen (fumbles aside of course). I hope he falls flat on his face but he's looked the most dangerous to me.

I agree, Hillman looks the best, but Ball looks like pretty darn good at GL.

Hillman looks the worst all around (Pass protection , fumbling, power are all major problems)

Ball looks the best running (Pass protection, receiving ? a concern)

Moreno best all around (Best Pass protection, Best Receiver and solid not spectacular runner, more power than Hillman less than Ball. injuries are a concern)

There's no concerns about Hillman's pass protection.

You may not be concerned but Denver is ... google it there's plenty about it

Here's one quote but there's plenty more

At the same time, Hillman definitely has some room to grow though. He’s been criticized for his “pass-protection” skills.

That's from a Bleacher Report article written in April. Find me something from August criticizing his pass protection. Hillman put in a lot of work, and is much improved from his rookie season.

Here's the Woody Paige of the Denver Post on July 28th:

Hillman is more comfortable and, Fox told me, "tenacious." Gaze said Hillman has made the second-year leap, and his blocking has improved.

Here's Mike Klis from the same paper on July 31st:

That Hillman has maintained his No. 1 spot on the tailback depth chart from Day One of the 2013 preseason speaks to his improvement in blocking for quarterback Peyton Manning.

The Broncos official site on May 24th:

One of his biggest leaps in improvement came in blitz pickup as a blocker... Through three days of OTAs, the team’s coaches have already seen an improvement in the pass-blocking abilities of the second-year running back.

“The thing that he’s shown us the last three days is at least his aggressiveness and willingness to go attack the blitzer,” Offensive Coordinator Adam Gase said. “That’s what we need to see. When we get in pads, that’s going to be a different deal as far as, OK, is he going to be able to sustain and do it consistently? I think he will."

Everyone looks good until the pads come on

 

[Adam Harstad]

Everyone looks good until the pads come on

Pads were on in the preseason. Hillman looked fine. He's not ever going to be the greatest blocker in the history of mankind, but he acquitted himself pretty well, and Denver had no problem entrusting Manning's neck to him when the bullets were live.

 

[3nOut]

As a Hillman owner who is now regretting the pick, Hillman being named the starter is great news. Even though I drafted him as my RB3/RB4, I still have no confidence starting him. This mess can can easily last throughout the year. I don't need that headache. With Hillman listed as the "starter" I am wondering what I can get in return for him in a trade before things flpflop again later.

 

[sho nuff]

regretting getting into this situation at all...and Im all in on it with all 3 of them (deep enough rosters to do it)...its my RB4...maybe 5 if the Vereen play lives up to any of the hype.

 

[3optic]

As a Hillman owner who is now regretting the pick, Hillman being named the starter is great news. Even though I drafted him as my RB3/RB4, I still have no confidence starting him. This mess can can easily last throughout the year. I don't need that headache. With Hillman listed as the "starter" I am wondering what I can get in return for him in a trade before things flpflop again later.

I'll give you LaFell for him

 

[pizzatyme]

To me, this is a case of the current staff not liking Moreno for whatever reason so much that their only alternative was to start Hillman. They've seen what Ball can't do when it comes to pass blocking. I honestly think they'l try to give Ball chances to pass protect during the regular season to earn their trust. What he does with it will cement his role in the rotation for better or worse.

Hillman will cement his role with the fumbles or lack thereof.

Moreno could still play a big role by default.

For the life of me, I do not understand the disdain for Moreno by the current staff. I thought he was exceptional during the playoffs last year. But, I do not see him every day.

 

[Adam Harstad]

regretting getting into this situation at all...and Im all in on it with all 3 of them (deep enough rosters to do it)...its my RB4...maybe 5 if the Vereen play lives up to any of the hype.

I've got four slots burned on Denver RBs in a Dynasty league where I waited forever before drafting my backs (the three regulars plus C.J. Anderson). I was hoping Anderson would get cut and picked up by some other team. In the meantime, I comfort myself with the fact that we should have a lot more clarity in a couple of weeks, and by the time the byes approach I'll probably feel comfortable cutting one or even two of these guys loose again.

 

[Eviloutsider]

I am trying to trade into this mess looking to trade Vereen and Pierce for Hillman and Ball (already have Moreno). I think someone emerges at some point.

 

[OG_GF]

I am trying to trade into this mess looking to trade Vereen and Pierce for Hillman and Ball (already have Moreno). I think someone emerges at some point.

'

I wouldn't do that. Pierce is a #1`RB if Rice sits out some games. I think Fox is playing games ... not with us, but with his opponents. 3 different backs, that's `3 guys you hafta game plan for. There's no doubt all 3 guys are gonna get touches ... but I think you already have the guy that puts up the most points this year in that offense. PPR.

 

[Faust]

Rotoworld:

NFL Network's Ian Rapoport reports the Broncos plan to use a running back by committee on a "drive-by-drive" basis.
As opposed to a "play-by-play" basis, the "drive-by-drive" formula will allow Ronnie Hillman, Montee Ball, and Knowshon Moreno to "stay in" and "go fast" in the Broncos' hurry-up attack. Hillman is expected to get the "start" on Thursday, but it's anyone's guess who will end up leading the backfield in touches against the Ravens. Our money's on Ball. As our own Evan Silva noted in his "Matchups" column, it's best to take a wait-and-see approach for the opener.

Related: Knowshon Moreno, Montee Ball

Source: Ian Rapoport on Twitter

 

[Twenty-Four Eighty-Four]

Rotoworld:

NFL Network's Ian Rapoport reports the Broncos plan to use a running back by committee on a "drive-by-drive" basis.

As opposed to a "play-by-play" basis, the "drive-by-drive" formula will allow Ronnie Hillman, Montee Ball, and Knowshon Moreno to "stay in" and "go fast" in the Broncos' hurry-up attack. Hillman is expected to get the "start" on Thursday, but it's anyone's guess who will end up leading the backfield in touches against the Ravens. Our money's on Ball. As our own Evan Silva noted in his "Matchups" column, it's best to take a wait-and-see approach for the opener.

Related: Knowshon Moreno, Montee Ball

Source: Ian Rapoport on Twitter

They'll all be asked to block if that's true. The problem will be that if a guy misses a block and gets pulled, he could miss a significant chance to make an impact and get carries.

 

[FDC]

We are talking Fox and protecting Manning. Moreno should be the start until the young backs can mature and protect. If that even happnes. Can't see it any other way.

Fox is often faithful to Vets but remember Moreno has seemingly been in the doghouse much of his time with Fox

Fox is just stubborn. Seems like he made the decision to roll with Hillman this spring and it would take something glaringly obvious for him to lose the job.

Rotoworld:

NFL Network's Ian Rapoport reports the Broncos plan to use a running back by committee on a "drive-by-drive" basis.
As opposed to a "play-by-play" basis, the "drive-by-drive" formula will allow Ronnie Hillman, Montee Ball, and Knowshon Moreno to "stay in" and "go fast" in the Broncos' hurry-up attack. Hillman is expected to get the "start" on Thursday, but it's anyone's guess who will end up leading the backfield in touches against the Ravens. Our money's on Ball. As our own Evan Silva noted in his "Matchups" column, it's best to take a wait-and-see approach for the opener.

Related: Knowshon Moreno, Montee Ball

Source: Ian Rapoport on Twitter

reminiscent of Dwill/JStew

And don't expect any clarity after week 1 either even if one has a shockingly bad and/or good performance.

"It is what it is"

 

[LOCO]

i think Moreno is worth a flyer. other than that, I think i am passing.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

i think Moreno is worth a flyer. other than that, I think i am passing.

I enjoy watching Moreno play. It seems like since after his rookie year, Moreno has just come in and done well every time. Catches the ball well, blocks well, good at the goal line, and the Broncos (Elway) just keeps trying to find a replacement.

 

[Adam Harstad]

i think Moreno is worth a flyer. other than that, I think i am passing.

I enjoy watching Moreno play. It seems like since after his rookie year, Moreno has just come in and done well every time. Catches the ball well, blocks well, good at the goal line, and the Broncos (Elway) just keeps trying to find a replacement.

Since entering the league, Knowshon Moreno has 20 carries that (a) came inside the 5 yard line and (b) came with 2 or fewer yards to go for a first down. On those 20 carries, he has scored 9 TDs, good for 45%.

For comparison, over that same span, all other Broncos RBs combined have 23 carries and 10 TDs, good for a nearly-identical success rate (43%). In this case, "all other RBs" includes McGahee (9 carries), Jacob Hester (2), Peyton Hillis (3), Correll Buckhalter (1), Lance Ball (4), LaMont Jordan (1), and Laurence Maroney (3). In other words, there's an awful lot of roster trash in those numbers.

I think this is Knowshon Moreno's career in a nutshell. He'll perform the same as any other generic RB would, no better and no worse. Since he entered the league, Broncos RBs as a whole (including Moreno) average 4.18 ypc, while Moreno alone averages 4.02 ypc. All Broncos RBs combined (including Moreno) get a first down on 21.6% of their carries, while Moreno alone gets one on 20.4%. He's the platonic ideal of replacement level. He's basically Isaac Redman, or Chester Taylor, or any number of other replacement-level RBs who have managed to put up some solid production when given the opportunity, but who weren't nearly good enough to keep the opportunity once they had it. Elway and Fox keep trying to replace him, because that's what you do to replacement-level players- you try to get an upgrade. In Willis McGahee, they succeeded. In Ronnie Hillman, they failed (at least during his rookie year). Will 2nd-year Hillman or 1st-year Ball be an upgrade over Knowshon Moreno? Maybe, maybe not. If they aren't, though, and if Knowshon Moreno winds up winning the starting job, I guarantee you one thing- Denver's going to spend next offseason trying to upgrade from Knowshon Moreno, too. He's the Mendoza Line of NFL RBs.

 

[Raiderfan32904]

I guarantee you one thing- Denver's going to spend next offseason trying to upgrade from Knowshon Moreno, too. He's the Mendoza Line of NFL RBs.

Didn't the original Mendoza weigh in the 180's? Can't bat .180? Yeesh that's bad. I hope he's better than that.

And this is the NFL, where GM's are always looking to upgrade personnel regardless of who you are. Denver will upgrade next year and look to do the same in 2015. That's part of this business.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

I guarantee you one thing- Denver's going to spend next offseason trying to upgrade from Knowshon Moreno, too. He's the Mendoza Line of NFL RBs.

Didn't the original Mendoza weigh in the 180's? Can't bat .180? Yeesh that's bad. I hope he's better than that.

And this is the NFL, where GM's are always looking to upgrade personnel regardless of who you are. Denver will upgrade next year and look to do the same in 2015. That's part of this business.

I thought it was .220

Ok, you made me look it up. .200

 

[purestrength]

Looks like I should tear up that Moreno golden lottery ticket mentioned in another thread. Hillman is (pretty much) the man.

 

[Judge Smails]

i think Moreno is worth a flyer. other than that, I think i am passing.

I enjoy watching Moreno play. It seems like since after his rookie year, Moreno has just come in and done well every time. Catches the ball well, blocks well, good at the goal line, and the Broncos (Elway) just keeps trying to find a replacement.

Since entering the league, Knowshon Moreno has 20 carries that (a) came inside the 5 yard line and (b) came with 2 or fewer yards to go for a first down. On those 20 carries, he has scored 9 TDs, good for 45%.

For comparison, over that same span, all other Broncos RBs combined have 23 carries and 10 TDs, good for a nearly-identical success rate (43%). In this case, "all other RBs" includes McGahee (9 carries), Jacob Hester (2), Peyton Hillis (3), Correll Buckhalter (1), Lance Ball (4), LaMont Jordan (1), and Laurence Maroney (3). In other words, there's an awful lot of roster trash in those numbers.

I think this is Knowshon Moreno's career in a nutshell. He'll perform the same as any other generic RB would, no better and no worse. Since he entered the league, Broncos RBs as a whole (including Moreno) average 4.18 ypc, while Moreno alone averages 4.02 ypc. All Broncos RBs combined (including Moreno) get a first down on 21.6% of their carries, while Moreno alone gets one on 20.4%. He's the platonic ideal of replacement level. He's basically Isaac Redman, or Chester Taylor, or any number of other replacement-level RBs who have managed to put up some solid production when given the opportunity, but who weren't nearly good enough to keep the opportunity once they had it. Elway and Fox keep trying to replace him, because that's what you do to replacement-level players- you try to get an upgrade. In Willis McGahee, they succeeded. In Ronnie Hillman, they failed (at least during his rookie year). Will 2nd-year Hillman or 1st-year Ball be an upgrade over Knowshon Moreno? Maybe, maybe not. If they aren't, though, and if Knowshon Moreno winds up winning the starting job, I guarantee you one thing- Denver's going to spend next offseason trying to upgrade from Knowshon Moreno, too. He's the Mendoza Line of NFL RBs.

Good analysis. I don't think anybody is saying Moreno is their long term back. He's not electric by any means. Nobody builds a RB stable behind a Knowhson Moreno. But the truth of the matter is that a Mendoza Line of NFL RB's can do very well in an offense like this. In a redraft situation, not worrying about next year, at a time when they have to win now with Manning's window, Moreno may win out. And I don't think they really want to go by committee. Ruins there flow. We saw McGahee, we saw Moreno - they want a prime back.

 

[FlapJacks]

i think Moreno is worth a flyer. other than that, I think i am passing.

I enjoy watching Moreno play. It seems like since after his rookie year, Moreno has just come in and done well every time. Catches the ball well, blocks well, good at the goal line, and the Broncos (Elway) just keeps trying to find a replacement.

Since entering the league, Knowshon Moreno has 20 carries that (a) came inside the 5 yard line and (b) came with 2 or fewer yards to go for a first down. On those 20 carries, he has scored 9 TDs, good for 45%.

For comparison, over that same span, all other Broncos RBs combined have 23 carries and 10 TDs, good for a nearly-identical success rate (43%). In this case, "all other RBs" includes McGahee (9 carries), Jacob Hester (2), Peyton Hillis (3), Correll Buckhalter (1), Lance Ball (4), LaMont Jordan (1), and Laurence Maroney (3). In other words, there's an awful lot of roster trash in those numbers.

I think this is Knowshon Moreno's career in a nutshell. He'll perform the same as any other generic RB would, no better and no worse. Since he entered the league, Broncos RBs as a whole (including Moreno) average 4.18 ypc, while Moreno alone averages 4.02 ypc. All Broncos RBs combined (including Moreno) get a first down on 21.6% of their carries, while Moreno alone gets one on 20.4%. He's the platonic ideal of replacement level. He's basically Isaac Redman, or Chester Taylor, or any number of other replacement-level RBs who have managed to put up some solid production when given the opportunity, but who weren't nearly good enough to keep the opportunity once they had it. Elway and Fox keep trying to replace him, because that's what you do to replacement-level players- you try to get an upgrade. In Willis McGahee, they succeeded. In Ronnie Hillman, they failed (at least during his rookie year). Will 2nd-year Hillman or 1st-year Ball be an upgrade over Knowshon Moreno? Maybe, maybe not. If they aren't, though, and if Knowshon Moreno winds up winning the starting job, I guarantee you one thing- Denver's going to spend next offseason trying to upgrade from Knowshon Moreno, too. He's the Mendoza Line of NFL RBs.

Good analysis. I don't think anybody is saying Moreno is their long term back. He's not electric by any means. Nobody builds a RB stable behind a Knowhson Moreno. But the truth of the matter is that a Mendoza Line of NFL RB's can do very well in an offense like this. In a redraft situation, not worrying about next year, at a time when they have to win now with Manning's window, Moreno may win out. And I don't think they really want to go by committee. Ruins there flow. We saw McGahee, we saw Moreno - they want a prime back.

The funny part is that they belive that Hillman can/has improved, but that Moreno can't?

I think this will play out over an extended time, barring injury. If one or more of three suck or cause sacks or fumble, Fox will have to adjust. The fans, the OC and Manning will have some input into this.

W1 Hillman will get the call, and we'll have to see how he does and go from there.

 

[LawFitz]

Dangerous waters here. Swim accordingly. Anyone forced to start a Denver RB week 1, good luck. We'll see this thing play out over 16 games with each RB having his time in the sun. I like the play fast mantra of the team, means a lot of stats to share.

 

[ShaHBucks]

i think Moreno is worth a flyer. other than that, I think i am passing.

I enjoy watching Moreno play. It seems like since after his rookie year, Moreno has just come in and done well every time. Catches the ball well, blocks well, good at the goal line, and the Broncos (Elway) just keeps trying to find a replacement.

Since entering the league, Knowshon Moreno has 20 carries that (a) came inside the 5 yard line and (b) came with 2 or fewer yards to go for a first down. On those 20 carries, he has scored 9 TDs, good for 45%.

For comparison, over that same span, all other Broncos RBs combined have 23 carries and 10 TDs, good for a nearly-identical success rate (43%). In this case, "all other RBs" includes McGahee (9 carries), Jacob Hester (2), Peyton Hillis (3), Correll Buckhalter (1), Lance Ball (4), LaMont Jordan (1), and Laurence Maroney (3). In other words, there's an awful lot of roster trash in those numbers.

I think this is Knowshon Moreno's career in a nutshell. He'll perform the same as any other generic RB would, no better and no worse. Since he entered the league, Broncos RBs as a whole (including Moreno) average 4.18 ypc, while Moreno alone averages 4.02 ypc. All Broncos RBs combined (including Moreno) get a first down on 21.6% of their carries, while Moreno alone gets one on 20.4%. He's the platonic ideal of replacement level. He's basically Isaac Redman, or Chester Taylor, or any number of other replacement-level RBs who have managed to put up some solid production when given the opportunity, but who weren't nearly good enough to keep the opportunity once they had it. Elway and Fox keep trying to replace him, because that's what you do to replacement-level players- you try to get an upgrade. In Willis McGahee, they succeeded. In Ronnie Hillman, they failed (at least during his rookie year). Will 2nd-year Hillman or 1st-year Ball be an upgrade over Knowshon Moreno? Maybe, maybe not. If they aren't, though, and if Knowshon Moreno winds up winning the starting job, I guarantee you one thing- Denver's going to spend next offseason trying to upgrade from Knowshon Moreno, too. He's the Mendoza Line of NFL RBs.

Good analysis. I don't think anybody is saying Moreno is their long term back. He's not electric by any means. Nobody builds a RB stable behind a Knowhson Moreno. But the truth of the matter is that a Mendoza Line of NFL RB's can do very well in an offense like this. In a redraft situation, not worrying about next year, at a time when they have to win now with Manning's window, Moreno may win out. And I don't think they really want to go by committee. Ruins there flow. We saw McGahee, we saw Moreno - they want a prime back.

It's the state of the RB market, not a knock on any of these guys. Every team in the league should look to exploit rookie RB contracts by drafting a few backs late and let them form a committee. If one breaks out then use him for 300+ carries every year. When it's contract time hopefully you already have a Ben Tate/ B Pierce waiting when your star RB contract is up. It's a copy cat league. Untl AP or CJ2k win a few playoff games that's what smart teams are doing right now since there are so many capable RBs in the league. It's obvious Elway isn't reinventing the wheel here. This looks like a poor mans versions of the Saints backfield right now. Ball might be great as a bellcow but underwhelm in a committee like Ingram, Knowshon may be the most efficient all-around like Thomas and still put in a top 30-35 season in a prolific offense while no one cares, and Hillman can be Sproles without being used as much in the passing game. Moreno has the most upside for his versatility and Hillman the most downside for his inabilities. As long as I know some touches are there I don't think playing Moreno/Ball in a pinch is that bad week 1.

 

[Buffaloes]

Looks like I should tear up that Moreno golden lottery ticket mentioned in another thread. Hillman is (pretty much) the man.

RBBC just like it was a week ago imo

 

[Adam Harstad]

i think Moreno is worth a flyer. other than that, I think i am passing.

I enjoy watching Moreno play. It seems like since after his rookie year, Moreno has just come in and done well every time. Catches the ball well, blocks well, good at the goal line, and the Broncos (Elway) just keeps trying to find a replacement.

Since entering the league, Knowshon Moreno has 20 carries that (a) came inside the 5 yard line and (b) came with 2 or fewer yards to go for a first down. On those 20 carries, he has scored 9 TDs, good for 45%.

For comparison, over that same span, all other Broncos RBs combined have 23 carries and 10 TDs, good for a nearly-identical success rate (43%). In this case, "all other RBs" includes McGahee (9 carries), Jacob Hester (2), Peyton Hillis (3), Correll Buckhalter (1), Lance Ball (4), LaMont Jordan (1), and Laurence Maroney (3). In other words, there's an awful lot of roster trash in those numbers.

I think this is Knowshon Moreno's career in a nutshell. He'll perform the same as any other generic RB would, no better and no worse. Since he entered the league, Broncos RBs as a whole (including Moreno) average 4.18 ypc, while Moreno alone averages 4.02 ypc. All Broncos RBs combined (including Moreno) get a first down on 21.6% of their carries, while Moreno alone gets one on 20.4%. He's the platonic ideal of replacement level. He's basically Isaac Redman, or Chester Taylor, or any number of other replacement-level RBs who have managed to put up some solid production when given the opportunity, but who weren't nearly good enough to keep the opportunity once they had it. Elway and Fox keep trying to replace him, because that's what you do to replacement-level players- you try to get an upgrade. In Willis McGahee, they succeeded. In Ronnie Hillman, they failed (at least during his rookie year). Will 2nd-year Hillman or 1st-year Ball be an upgrade over Knowshon Moreno? Maybe, maybe not. If they aren't, though, and if Knowshon Moreno winds up winning the starting job, I guarantee you one thing- Denver's going to spend next offseason trying to upgrade from Knowshon Moreno, too. He's the Mendoza Line of NFL RBs.

Good analysis. I don't think anybody is saying Moreno is their long term back. He's not electric by any means. Nobody builds a RB stable behind a Knowhson Moreno. But the truth of the matter is that a Mendoza Line of NFL RB's can do very well in an offense like this. In a redraft situation, not worrying about next year, at a time when they have to win now with Manning's window, Moreno may win out. And I don't think they really want to go by committee. Ruins there flow. We saw McGahee, we saw Moreno - they want a prime back.

The funny part is that they belive that Hillman can/has improved, but that Moreno can't?

I think this will play out over an extended time, barring injury. If one or more of three suck or cause sacks or fumble, Fox will have to adjust. The fans, the OC and Manning will have some input into this.

W1 Hillman will get the call, and we'll have to see how he does and go from there.

Obviously anyone is capable of improving. John Riggins never topped 250 carries until he was 30, and never topped 300 until he was 34. Nothing is impossible.

With that said, there's a lot more reason to believe that Hillman will improve than Moreno. The offseason between first and second year is where most players make the biggest jump, physically. Most importantly, Ronnie Hillman is still very young. Ronnie Hillman is the youngest player on the entire team. I don't mean he was last year, I mean today, right this very instant, Ronnie Hillman is still the youngest player on the entire team. Last year, he was the youngest player in the entire NFL. If Ronnie Hillman wanted to celebrate Denver's week 1 win over Pittsburgh last year by going out to a bar, he would have had to bring a fake ID, because he still wasn't legal for liquor. He's still three years younger than Doug Martin. There's still lots of room for improvement.

 

[cubbie5150]

^^^^^^^Yep. Age relative to league matters for prospects, in all sports. As a baseball scout would perhaps say, there's still projectability when it comes to Hillman. We pretty much know what Moreno is.

 

[NDyse10]

I own all 3 in a dynasty league. Whether I like it or not I am in it for the long haul this year.

 

[ffldrew]

i think Moreno is worth a flyer. other than that, I think i am passing.

I enjoy watching Moreno play. It seems like since after his rookie year, Moreno has just come in and done well every time. Catches the ball well, blocks well, good at the goal line, and the Broncos (Elway) just keeps trying to find a replacement.

Since entering the league, Knowshon Moreno has 20 carries that (a) came inside the 5 yard line and (b) came with 2 or fewer yards to go for a first down. On those 20 carries, he has scored 9 TDs, good for 45%.

For comparison, over that same span, all other Broncos RBs combined have 23 carries and 10 TDs, good for a nearly-identical success rate (43%). In this case, "all other RBs" includes McGahee (9 carries), Jacob Hester (2), Peyton Hillis (3), Correll Buckhalter (1), Lance Ball (4), LaMont Jordan (1), and Laurence Maroney (3). In other words, there's an awful lot of roster trash in those numbers.

I think this is Knowshon Moreno's career in a nutshell. He'll perform the same as any other generic RB would, no better and no worse. Since he entered the league, Broncos RBs as a whole (including Moreno) average 4.18 ypc, while Moreno alone averages 4.02 ypc. All Broncos RBs combined (including Moreno) get a first down on 21.6% of their carries, while Moreno alone gets one on 20.4%. He's the platonic ideal of replacement level. He's basically Isaac Redman, or Chester Taylor, or any number of other replacement-level RBs who have managed to put up some solid production when given the opportunity, but who weren't nearly good enough to keep the opportunity once they had it. Elway and Fox keep trying to replace him, because that's what you do to replacement-level players- you try to get an upgrade. In Willis McGahee, they succeeded. In Ronnie Hillman, they failed (at least during his rookie year). Will 2nd-year Hillman or 1st-year Ball be an upgrade over Knowshon Moreno? Maybe, maybe not. If they aren't, though, and if Knowshon Moreno winds up winning the starting job, I guarantee you one thing- Denver's going to spend next offseason trying to upgrade from Knowshon Moreno, too. He's the Mendoza Line of NFL RBs.

Good stuff here...and what is really frustrating with him is that he's had every opportunity to increase those % and #'s - and yet he takes himself off the field. He can't last for a drive much less a season - that is the #1 reason why those other guys get the chance. My picture of Moreno is making a good run and looking at the bench and coming off the field.

 

[sho nuff]

^^^^^^^Yep. Age relative to league matters for prospects, in all sports. As a baseball scout would perhaps say, there's still projectability when it comes to Hillman. We pretty much know what Moreno is.

Got sucked in too...not in dynasty.

Right now just tying up 3 roster spots with guys I can't trust hoping one of them steps out and it gets clearer soon.