The Chicago Sun-Times reports that the Broncos have offered Chicago WR Ashley Lelie in exchange for RB Thomas Jones. The Bears brass, namely GM Jerry Angelo and head coach Lovie Smith, wouldn't respond to the trade talk. "You heard me talking about Thomas a little while ago and what he means to our team and can't wait to get him on the field,'' Smith said. "There was nothing about we can't wait to get him out of here. Thomas is a valuable part of our team, and I'm sure a lot of teams would like to have Thomas Jones. We're one of them."
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Broncos talking to Bears about Jones (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter jamie
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ffweasel
Weasel Power
From the Blogger yesterday:
July 29, 2006, 09:52
Bears :: RB
GM Angelo Silent On Trade Talk
Brad Biggs, Chicago Sun-Times - FULL ARTICLE
Given the opportunity to stamp out any trade talk surrounding Thomas Jones, Bears general manager Jerry Angelo only fueled rumors the running back could be on the market. Asked about a report that the Denver Broncos have inquired about Jones' availability, Angelo said he would not discuss trades. Asked if Jones is available, Angelo did not say, "no." "I'm not going to get into any of that,'' he said. "We're focused on the season right now."
July 29, 2006, 09:52
Bears :: RB
GM Angelo Silent On Trade Talk
Brad Biggs, Chicago Sun-Times - FULL ARTICLE
Given the opportunity to stamp out any trade talk surrounding Thomas Jones, Bears general manager Jerry Angelo only fueled rumors the running back could be on the market. Asked about a report that the Denver Broncos have inquired about Jones' availability, Angelo said he would not discuss trades. Asked if Jones is available, Angelo did not say, "no." "I'm not going to get into any of that,'' he said. "We're focused on the season right now."
Biabreakable
Footballguy
I don't think Lelie is even close to as valuable as Thomas Jones. Denver would have to give up somthing else substaintial if they really want to pry Jones from the Bears.
But I never thought the Vikings would trade Moss and Culpepper for the drek they got for them either...
But I never thought the Vikings would trade Moss and Culpepper for the drek they got for them either...
The question I'm wondering about should this trade go down is whether denver would continue their rbbc approach or would they let jones be the primary ball carrier like terrell davis? I also think denver may have to give up another pick(s) to make this happen. TJ could explode as the primary ball carrier in denver to the tune of double digit touchdowns and 1400+ yards.
apkballa
Footballguy
I think the broncos think that Lelie is just as valuable or maybe more valuable than Thomas Jones. The broncos have two good RB's that could run the show in denver. They don't need Thomas Jones. But the bears do need a good #2 reciever to take the double team away from Muhammed. If this deal happens it will probably be a straight up deal.
Remeber in the beginning the broncos were asking for a #1 pick for Lelie.
Remeber in the beginning the broncos were asking for a #1 pick for Lelie.
DreadedParms
Footballguy
I need that. I can keep Jones in exchange for a fourth rounder this year in a fourteen team league. Very RB heavy.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
If the Broncos do get Jones from the Bears somehow I don't see him sharing carries much. At least until he gets injured from a heavy workload. He would definitly be better than any other Rb they have imho.
Marc Levin
Hangs out with Oscar Zeta Acosta
If the Broncos didn't want to keep Anderson for what Baltimore paid for him, would they meet TJones' current contract ofr his future demands?
Riffraff
Footballguy
It's only one team (Denver) with an unhappy player seeing if another team (Chicago) with an unhappy player is interested in trading potential headaches.
It does not mean Denver doesn't like Bell/Dayne as their feature back, nor does it mean that Chicago doesn't like Bradley/Berrian as their #2 WR.
Just means each team may be willing to part with a headache. The old addition by subtraction theory.
It does not mean Denver doesn't like Bell/Dayne as their feature back, nor does it mean that Chicago doesn't like Bradley/Berrian as their #2 WR.
Just means each team may be willing to part with a headache. The old addition by subtraction theory.
As a Bears fan I don't think Lelie is much better than Bradley/Berrian. Not to mention that the Bears second receiver usually doesn't play a big role in the offense anyway. The Bears were the second best team in the NFC last year because they ran the ball and played great defense. They do not need to change things. The second running back is far more important than the second receiver. Although I do like Peterson quite a bit, Lelie would still be asking for a large contract, and I don't think he is worth it.
Riffraff
Footballguy
I'll give you that.After all, most teams like to go into the season with 5 halfbacks on the squad.
Currently Denver has Bell and Dayne worthy of a roster spot.
Then they have guys that no other team would want in Cedric Cobbs (sat on a practice squad that any team could hire.. but didn't), Mike Bell (went undrafted), and Marty Johnson (who?).
RB depth is a need for Denver even if they do not land Thomas Jones.
Expect more inquiries (and fantasy owners jumping at every rumor).
Marc Levin
Hangs out with Oscar Zeta Acosta
I'd think the team wants to improve itself anywhere they think they need improvement, or can acquire improvement.Right now, it appears their pressing need on offense is proven experience in the backfield and a solid third receiver (assuming Lelie fails to accept his role as WR3)
I am not surprised the team is looking at veteran RBs, but I'm not convinced they are, per se, "looking for another RB" if you understand what I mean.
I'd bet they are as interested in Brown or Bennett if the price is right.
GRIDIRON ASSASSIN
Footballguy
Lelie and a conditional 2nd round draft pick is what it would take for me to deal Thomas Jones. If he takes a certain amount of snaps, it's a 2nd rounder vs. a 3rd rounder.
The Broncos are eager to deal Lelie as he's holding out, and he's in a contract year - therefore his value is jack squat.
The Bears are not backed into any corners with Thomas Jones. He's under contract for two more years.
The Broncos are eager to deal Lelie as he's holding out, and he's in a contract year - therefore his value is jack squat.
The Bears are not backed into any corners with Thomas Jones. He's under contract for two more years.
From what I've read, Broncos tried to get Jamal. Tried to get Duckett. Inquired about Taylor. Would have drafted Maroney if they didn't get Cutler. Now Jones?That's not just "looking for a value trade around the league". That's looking for a RB because they trust Dayne/Bell as far as they can throw them. They obviously won't break the bank for a RB, but it seems like they're very interested in getting a RB before the season starts.
Marc Levin
Hangs out with Oscar Zeta Acosta
I think they "were" interested in getting another RB and still "are" interested - if the price is right.
I truly believe Shanahan is ready to go into the season with his current guys.
The real question I have is, assuming they DO add another RB, is that an indictment of bell or is it an indictment of Dayne?
Does Bell maintain his 10-12 touches per game status and does Dayne move to backup? Still an open competition?
I truly believe Shanahan is ready to go into the season with his current guys.
The real question I have is, assuming they DO add another RB, is that an indictment of bell or is it an indictment of Dayne?
Does Bell maintain his 10-12 touches per game status and does Dayne move to backup? Still an open competition?
Riffraff
Footballguy
Six months worth of rumors and 1 month until the season starts. They sure are looking desperately for a replacement and taking their sweet old time in that desperation.
The only desperation is that they are shopping Lelie and hoping to get something of value out of it before he becomes a free agent.
The reason its been RBBC in Denver IMO is that, while it should have been Tatum Bell, Bell has been poor at picking up blitzes. Even in the AFC title game, I was watching Bell closely in this regard, and he was lax in this area and hurt the club in their loss to the Steelers.Disclosure - I owned Tatum Bell last year but let him go this offseason.
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GRIDIRON ASSASSIN
Footballguy
And his value is about as low as possible right now. The Broncos should have dealt this cat prior to dealing for J-Walker. Now he his value is jack sheet.
Courtjester
The Town Drunk
Yeah, but at some point Leile has to report and show something to have any value in the FA market next year.Leile is dumb, plain and simple, for not showing up and at least trying to further his value.
The bottom line is that the RB corps the Broncos have right now are enough together to be in the top 3 in the league in rushing (notice I say together). Heck, this is an offense that made Gary a 1,000 yd rusher.
Yeah, I am Colorado homer, but I don't believe there is desperation right now on any of these parties. Leile costs very little against the cap, so he can be sat down all year without much consequence. Marshall or Watts will make a very nice WR3 assuming Walker is healed and ready to go.
I think there is little rush to get anything done on any side.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
Let's pause and think like an NFL front ofice a momet shall we?
"We invested a top5 pick at RB and sooner or later we are going to play him at that spot. We are absolute sharks and never make a mistake on our picks...not playing him at the level we drafted him at would almost be an admission that we could ahve grabbed another player that would have bettered our team as we had TJ sitting on our squad the whole time."
Denver front office: "We have had Lelie for 3+ seasons now and he isn't really in our long term plans...Rod Smith and Walker will certainly make fro a good combo...if we only had a better RB situation right now...we didn't like that many RB in the draft...TJ would sure fill a void...he can catch and run the ball inChicago...imagine what he could do here in Denver...let's pick up the phone and find out if they might want an upgrade at WR since they have nothing special. Their WR2 position isn't used much but maybe it's because they have no one and have had Jim Miller/Rex Grossman/RookieQBs under center for a long time...now they have Brian Griese...we could tell them how great a QB he can become if he had more weapons...Yeah Tom make that call!"
Something like that between cigars and single malts
"We invested a top5 pick at RB and sooner or later we are going to play him at that spot. We are absolute sharks and never make a mistake on our picks...not playing him at the level we drafted him at would almost be an admission that we could ahve grabbed another player that would have bettered our team as we had TJ sitting on our squad the whole time."
Denver front office: "We have had Lelie for 3+ seasons now and he isn't really in our long term plans...Rod Smith and Walker will certainly make fro a good combo...if we only had a better RB situation right now...we didn't like that many RB in the draft...TJ would sure fill a void...he can catch and run the ball inChicago...imagine what he could do here in Denver...let's pick up the phone and find out if they might want an upgrade at WR since they have nothing special. Their WR2 position isn't used much but maybe it's because they have no one and have had Jim Miller/Rex Grossman/RookieQBs under center for a long time...now they have Brian Griese...we could tell them how great a QB he can become if he had more weapons...Yeah Tom make that call!"
Something like that between cigars and single malts
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Tau837
Footballguy
Well, first off, Bell had 191 touches last season. He is listed as having played in 15 games, but in weeks 2 and 12 he had 0 touches and is not listed in FBG's play by play (guess that's the same thing--no touch = not listed).So if you use his effective games played number, that's 14.7 touches per game last season.Bronco RBs other than Bell had 341 touches last season, including 257 by Anderson in 15 games. If they get Jones, I could easily see him sliding right into Mike Anderson's role from last year, leaving a split like this, assuming 16 games from each:Jones - 275 touchesBell - 225 touchesDayne - 40 touchesBut assume Jones plays 16 games and Bell misses 2 games... it could look more like:Jones - 300 touchesBell - 185 touchesDayne - 55 touchesI'm not predicting injuries, just pointing out that I think Bell will maintain a similar role even if they get Jones, and how the numbers could look depending on Bell's ability to stay on the field.I will say this: if Denver gets Jones, all those who drafted Dayne early this year will be regretting that big time.
Couch Potato
Footballguy
Denver could trade Dayne to the Giants for a 1st round pick.
IMO Yes they would. They could consider it a savings. Because Jones is 28 years old, and has performed well the last three seasons.They could sign him for what he wants, rather than use a high draft pick who grabs a ton of cash before playing a down. Saving money and getting a proven young player.
IF and it's a BIG IF the Bears were sick enough to accept this, The Broncos would be stealing.
I like Lelie, and believe his failure is a product of Plummer missing him badly in 2005, but he's not as valuable as Jones.
Like I said before, REALLY hope this goes down.
Liquid Tension
Footballguy
The Broncos would give Lelie for Jones in a second! Jones' contract is very attractive as well as I believe 5 mil for these next two years. This is why I don't see the Bears getting rid of him. Therefore, TJ is the better player and with a better contract. No deal straight up!Did we all read that Cobbs showed up in poor shape ?
And we all know what happens to Dayne - a consistant , career underperformer.
Assume this trade happens and Denver gives Cobbs and Lelie ? Or a draft pick and Lelie ?
Grossman to Muhammed and Lelie with Benson running the ball and Cobbs to backup
Denver has a sure starter in T Jones with Bell and Dayne in the mix too and they won't miss Lelie a bit
And we all know what happens to Dayne - a consistant , career underperformer.
Assume this trade happens and Denver gives Cobbs and Lelie ? Or a draft pick and Lelie ?
Grossman to Muhammed and Lelie with Benson running the ball and Cobbs to backup
Denver has a sure starter in T Jones with Bell and Dayne in the mix too and they won't miss Lelie a bit
Sweetness_34
Footballguy
God this is getting silly.
The Bears WILL NOT TRADE THOMAS JONES.....PERIOD.
Look around the league - you need 2 and sometimes 3 RBs to be successful most of the time. The top rushing teams in the league have been Denver, KC, Carolina, Atlanta, Bears, Cowboys, Miami etc - and they all have used multiple backs to be successful - Anderson/Bell; LJ/Priest; Davis/Foster; Dunn/Duckett; Jones/Benson; Jones/Barber; Ricky/Ronnie.
Teams like the Seahawks, Indy and Washington are rare exceptions to the rule, but in those cases - 2 have stud Rbs and one has a RB that plays in ahighly pass driven team. One other notable exception is SD, but LT has been slowing down/getting injured now for the last 2 years when the last quarter of the season rolls around. Lookat NE - only Corey running the rock led to injuries to him - now they will have Maroneyto share some load. In today's NFL, one RB is NOT ENOUGH. And it is definitely not enough if you are a running and play defense kind of team like the Bears. To further prove my point, look at how people like Caddy, Westbrook etc suffer injuries since there is not much there to share the load on their team .....ask the question - why are teams going so much to the RBBC mold ....look at the drafts this year.
Now, when you consider what I said above, and then add to that the fact that the Bears salary cap situation is super and will stay that way for a while given how well they extend their own players early and do not go after crazy FAs, and you will see that having TJ for 2 more years at a bargain is great for them. Why should they take a risk and trade TJ away, when one injury to Benson would crater their entire season??? It is pure stupidity. Especially for a freaking WR who will do squat in his 1st year with us (no clue of system, no reps etc), not to mention a WR that has marginal talent, is a head case, will be a FA next year and given the Broncos have zero leverage in this situation since Lelie has them by the balls.
The Bears WILL NOT TRADE THOMAS JONES.....PERIOD.
Look around the league - you need 2 and sometimes 3 RBs to be successful most of the time. The top rushing teams in the league have been Denver, KC, Carolina, Atlanta, Bears, Cowboys, Miami etc - and they all have used multiple backs to be successful - Anderson/Bell; LJ/Priest; Davis/Foster; Dunn/Duckett; Jones/Benson; Jones/Barber; Ricky/Ronnie.
Teams like the Seahawks, Indy and Washington are rare exceptions to the rule, but in those cases - 2 have stud Rbs and one has a RB that plays in ahighly pass driven team. One other notable exception is SD, but LT has been slowing down/getting injured now for the last 2 years when the last quarter of the season rolls around. Lookat NE - only Corey running the rock led to injuries to him - now they will have Maroneyto share some load. In today's NFL, one RB is NOT ENOUGH. And it is definitely not enough if you are a running and play defense kind of team like the Bears. To further prove my point, look at how people like Caddy, Westbrook etc suffer injuries since there is not much there to share the load on their team .....ask the question - why are teams going so much to the RBBC mold ....look at the drafts this year.
Now, when you consider what I said above, and then add to that the fact that the Bears salary cap situation is super and will stay that way for a while given how well they extend their own players early and do not go after crazy FAs, and you will see that having TJ for 2 more years at a bargain is great for them. Why should they take a risk and trade TJ away, when one injury to Benson would crater their entire season??? It is pure stupidity. Especially for a freaking WR who will do squat in his 1st year with us (no clue of system, no reps etc), not to mention a WR that has marginal talent, is a head case, will be a FA next year and given the Broncos have zero leverage in this situation since Lelie has them by the balls.
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
A-Pete is a fine RB. A duo of Benson & Peterson would suffice nicely.Next argument against the trade?
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
Of all the posts in this thread so far, this is pretty much what I'm feelin'. Lelie is trash. And a diva, to boot.
If I'm Angelo, Denver has to throw in a lot more than just Lelie.
Sweetness_34
Footballguy
Not a proven RB. APete did well against the Niners.....my grandma could do that too last year.....
Bears_Man2
Footballguy
No reason to mess up the WR setup on the team either if you believe Bradley and/or Berrian can be good/great WR's.What reason is there to get rid of TJ to obtain a player that's going to ##### about his contract now and until his contract expires??
Only way I see this happening (if at all) is if Bradley or Berrian are injured.
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Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
He had 76 carries for 391 yards in '05... a 5.1 YPC average.Were all of those carries against the Niners?Not a proven RB. APete did well against the Niners.....my grandma could do that too last year.....
Sweetness_34
Footballguy
Against SF - 24 carries, 120 yards, 5.0 Avg, 1 TDAgain, proven RB.....only time he was proven....and again, my grandma...yada yada yadaHe had 76 carries for 391 yards in '05... a 5.1 YPC average.Were all of those carries against the Niners?Not a proven RB. APete did well against the Niners.....my grandma could do that too last year.....
wannabee
Footballguy
Bears | T. Jones improving; no return date set
Published Mon Jul 31 12:56:00 a.m. ET 2006
(KFFL) Larry Mayer, of ChicagoBears.com, reports Chicago Bears RB Thomas Jones (hamstring) is making progress in his recovery from a strained hamstring, but the Bears have not set a timetable for his return to practice. "Hamstrings, you never know how long they'll take," head coach Lovie Smith said. "I just know that he's getting better each day. He's getting as much treatment as you could possibly get in a 24-hour period." Smith said once Jones is healed he will return to practice.
Published Mon Jul 31 12:56:00 a.m. ET 2006
(KFFL) Larry Mayer, of ChicagoBears.com, reports Chicago Bears RB Thomas Jones (hamstring) is making progress in his recovery from a strained hamstring, but the Bears have not set a timetable for his return to practice. "Hamstrings, you never know how long they'll take," head coach Lovie Smith said. "I just know that he's getting better each day. He's getting as much treatment as you could possibly get in a 24-hour period." Smith said once Jones is healed he will return to practice.
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
I watch every Bears game (and every other game each week, for that matter).Peterson has impressed me every single time I've seen him. So much so that I am worried that he'll continue to look better than Benson, who is one of my keepers. Peterson would make a more-than-satisfactory #2 back for any team in the league.Against SF - 24 carries, 120 yards, 5.0 Avg, 1 TDAgain, proven RB.....only time he was proven....and again, my grandma...yada yada yadaHe had 76 carries for 391 yards in '05... a 5.1 YPC average.Were all of those carries against the Niners?Not a proven RB. APete did well against the Niners.....my grandma could do that too last year.....
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
About as long as it takes for Denver to sweeten the offer, I would suspect.
apkballa
Footballguy
Let me be realistic for a moment here. I think that Picks would be involved if this trade ever happens. I think that the broncos would have to add a fourth rounder at the least to get Thomas Jones from the bears. As a broncos fan I think that Lelie isn't as valuable as Jones. But I would like to see the broncos get the better end of this deal. So In a world where teams just give thier players away. I would like it to be a straight up deal.Please tell us that's brilliant sarcasm.
Liquid Tension
Footballguy
As I said in my previous post, the contract situation makes TJ a real bargain so there is NO reason to trade him unless they got great value in return. Value is defined as a valuable talent that is inexpensive; there are not that many out there which makes TJ a great value. I mean they could trade TJ for Javon Walker, but with teh contract one could argue TJ is more valuable because that other money can be spent on something else good.I watch every Bears game (and every other game each week, for that matter).Peterson has impressed me every single time I've seen him. So much so that I am worried that he'll continue to look better than Benson, who is one of my keepers. Peterson would make a more-than-satisfactory #2 back for any team in the league.Against SF - 24 carries, 120 yards, 5.0 Avg, 1 TDAgain, proven RB.....only time he was proven....and again, my grandma...yada yada yadaHe had 76 carries for 391 yards in '05... a 5.1 YPC average.Were all of those carries against the Niners?Not a proven RB. APete did well against the Niners.....my grandma could do that too last year.....
BoulderBob
Footballguy
Hub Arkush (Bears Mouthpiece) stated that Thomas Jones is out for a minimum of 10-14 days. Sounds like a deal is in the works.
KnowledgeReignsSupreme
Footballguy
It seems to me like Denver is being like that guy in your league that offers a semi crap player to every other team in the league in the hopes that someone is desperate enough to pull the trigger on a trade.
Denver stands to lose nothing by OFFERING Lelie to the Bears for TJones. It's not necessarily an indictment of their current RBs, but if you thought the Bears might bite on that or a similar offer, wouldn't you try?
Denver stands to lose nothing by OFFERING Lelie to the Bears for TJones. It's not necessarily an indictment of their current RBs, but if you thought the Bears might bite on that or a similar offer, wouldn't you try?
