Bucs possibly looking at Grady Jackson? (1 Viewer)

[MLBrandow]

Packers NT Grady Jackson is set to be a free agent in March, and with the recent addition of DL Coach Jethro Franklin (who worked with the Packers from 2000-2004) and Gruden's past history with Grady Jackson in Oakland from 1998-2001, that's six years between them.

It seems to me with their wanting to get some more run-stoppage on that DL that Jackson, if they can get him cheap, would be a pretty solid option.

Any thoughts? I realize Hovan played NT all year, but he'd be better suited (at least i think) to move back over where he's used to playing and let a big guy like Grady Jackson tie up a couple linemen.

 

[Capella]

No. He's not a good fit for Monte's defense.

 

[diesel7982]

No. He's not a good fit for Monte's defense.

Exactly. Monte is the main shopper for the groceries for his defense. Jackson would be an ugly fit.

 

[MLBrandow]

I suppose. One weakness of the Tampa two is that they've never had a big run-stopper. I don't believe it's so much an avoidance or unwanting of one so much that they just haven't been able to get one.

 

[Capella]

I suppose.  One weakness of the Tampa two is that they've never had a big run-stopper.  I don't believe it's so much an avoidance or unwanting of one so much that they just haven't been able to get one.

No, it's an avoidance. Doesn't fit into the scheme at all. And I mean, at all.You don't think they would've been able to get a big lug of a run-stopper since 1996?

 

[Z-Dog]

I suppose. One weakness of the Tampa two is that they've never had a big run-stopper. I don't believe it's so much an avoidance or unwanting of one so much that they just haven't been able to get one.

No, it's an avoidance. Doesn't fit into the scheme at all. And I mean, at all.You don't think they would've been able to get a big lug of a run-stopper since 1996?

I don't know... Herman Edwards runs the Tampa-2, and Jason Ferguson was a pro-bowl run-stopper on that team. Ferguson is 310 lbs. Dewayne Robertson was selected by Bradway & Edwards, and traded up for, no less. He hasn't fulfilled his potential yet, but he is developing well, and he's 317 lbs. Actually, a couple of years ago, there was talk of Oakland trading Jackson to the Jets for Shaun Ellis. With a hole at DT, I wouldn't be surprised if the Jets were interested in Jackson.

 

[NorvilleBarnes]

I suppose.  One weakness of the Tampa two is that they've never had a big run-stopper.  I don't believe it's so much an avoidance or unwanting of one so much that they just haven't been able to get one.

No, it's an avoidance. Doesn't fit into the scheme at all. And I mean, at all.You don't think they would've been able to get a big lug of a run-stopper since 1996?

I don't know... Herman Edwards runs the Tampa-2, and Jason Ferguson was a pro-bowl run-stopper on that team. Ferguson is 310 lbs. Dewayne Robertson was selected by Bradway & Edwards, and traded up for, no less. He hasn't fulfilled his potential yet, but he is developing well, and he's 317 lbs. Actually, a couple of years ago, there was talk of Oakland trading Jackson to the Jets for Shaun Ellis. With a hole at DT, I wouldn't be surprised if the Jets were interested in Jackson.

Capella said "No". Nothing more to see here. Move along.

 

[diesel7982]

I suppose.  One weakness of the Tampa two is that they've never had a big run-stopper.  I don't believe it's so much an avoidance or unwanting of one so much that they just haven't been able to get one.

No, it's an avoidance. Doesn't fit into the scheme at all. And I mean, at all.You don't think they would've been able to get a big lug of a run-stopper since 1996?

I don't know... Herman Edwards runs the Tampa-2, and Jason Ferguson was a pro-bowl run-stopper on that team. Ferguson is 310 lbs. Dewayne Robertson was selected by Bradway & Edwards, and traded up for, no less. He hasn't fulfilled his potential yet, but he is developing well, and he's 317 lbs. Actually, a couple of years ago, there was talk of Oakland trading Jackson to the Jets for Shaun Ellis. With a hole at DT, I wouldn't be surprised if the Jets were interested in Jackson.

310 and able to rush the passer is different than 340-370 and only able to eat up space.

 

[Capella]

I suppose.  One weakness of the Tampa two is that they've never had a big run-stopper.   I don't believe it's so much an avoidance or unwanting of one so much that they just haven't been able to get one.

No, it's an avoidance. Doesn't fit into the scheme at all. And I mean, at all.You don't think they would've been able to get a big lug of a run-stopper since 1996?

I don't know... Herman Edwards runs the Tampa-2, and Jason Ferguson was a pro-bowl run-stopper on that team. Ferguson is 310 lbs. Dewayne Robertson was selected by Bradway & Edwards, and traded up for, no less. He hasn't fulfilled his potential yet, but he is developing well, and he's 317 lbs. Actually, a couple of years ago, there was talk of Oakland trading Jackson to the Jets for Shaun Ellis. With a hole at DT, I wouldn't be surprised if the Jets were interested in Jackson.

No offense, but what do I care what the Jets are doing? Just because Herm runs it, doesn't mean he runs it as well as Monte. And all those guys you mentioned were in the 305-315 range. Not 350, as diesel mentioned.Over 10 years there is no precedent for the Bucs giving any PT in their interior to some 340-lb lug. The interior gap men have to be smaller and quicker and able to get to the QB. They'll give up a little size with the DTs if it enables them to get a rush which allows the LBs to not blitz very often, so they can drop them back into coverage -- which is a big reason the pass D is so stout every year.

Sapp to Culpepper to Booger to Hovan, even DeWayne White and Ellis Wyms taking snaps on the interior -- they all have one thing in common. They're smaller and quicker than most DTs.

You add some rhino like Jackson in there and it completely changes the scheme. Not. Going. To. Happen.

 

[Capella]

I suppose.  One weakness of the Tampa two is that they've never had a big run-stopper.   I don't believe it's so much an avoidance or unwanting of one so much that they just haven't been able to get one.

No, it's an avoidance. Doesn't fit into the scheme at all. And I mean, at all.You don't think they would've been able to get a big lug of a run-stopper since 1996?

I don't know... Herman Edwards runs the Tampa-2, and Jason Ferguson was a pro-bowl run-stopper on that team. Ferguson is 310 lbs. Dewayne Robertson was selected by Bradway & Edwards, and traded up for, no less. He hasn't fulfilled his potential yet, but he is developing well, and he's 317 lbs. Actually, a couple of years ago, there was talk of Oakland trading Jackson to the Jets for Shaun Ellis. With a hole at DT, I wouldn't be surprised if the Jets were interested in Jackson.

Capella said "No". Nothing more to see here. Move along.

 

[MLBrandow]

Why did they draft Anthony Bryant last year? Given it was a 6th rounder, why draft a big behemoth like him? Just for 5 man lines and obvious running plays?

 

[Capella]

Why did they draft Anthony Bryant last year?  Given it was a 6th rounder, why draft a big behemoth like him?  Just for 5 man lines and obvious running plays?

a) round 6b) wanted more pressure from the inside on field-goal attempts.

c) obvious running plays, as you stated, even though I'm not sure he hangs even for those.

 

[ren hoek]

I suppose.  One weakness of the Tampa two is that they've never had a big run-stopper.   I don't believe it's so much an avoidance or unwanting of one so much that they just haven't been able to get one.

No, it's an avoidance. Doesn't fit into the scheme at all. And I mean, at all.You don't think they would've been able to get a big lug of a run-stopper since 1996?

I don't know... Herman Edwards runs the Tampa-2, and Jason Ferguson was a pro-bowl run-stopper on that team. Ferguson is 310 lbs. Dewayne Robertson was selected by Bradway & Edwards, and traded up for, no less. He hasn't fulfilled his potential yet, but he is developing well, and he's 317 lbs. Actually, a couple of years ago, there was talk of Oakland trading Jackson to the Jets for Shaun Ellis. With a hole at DT, I wouldn't be surprised if the Jets were interested in Jackson.

No offense, but what do I care what the Jets are doing? Just because Herm runs it, doesn't mean he runs it as well as Monte. And all those guys you mentioned were in the 305-315 range. Not 350, as diesel mentioned.Over 10 years there is no precedent for the Bucs giving any PT in their interior to some 340-lb lug. The interior gap men have to be smaller and quicker and able to get to the QB. They'll give up a little size with the DTs if it enables them to get a rush which allows the LBs to not blitz very often, so they can drop them back into coverage -- which is a big reason the pass D is so stout every year.

Sapp to Culpepper to Booger to Hovan, even DeWayne White and Ellis Wyms taking snaps on the interior -- they all have one thing in common. They're smaller and quicker than most DTs.

You add some rhino like Jackson in there and it completely changes the scheme. Not. Going. To. Happen.

I would think that a Pat Williams type of DT would free up the other linemen to beat their man in a more individual match-up.. at the very least, the defense wouldn't be as susceptible to the run. The Bengals like to use small, athletic defensive linemen too.. and teams that run well have their way with them every time.

 

[diesel7982]

I suppose.  One weakness of the Tampa two is that they've never had a big run-stopper.   I don't believe it's so much an avoidance or unwanting of one so much that they just haven't been able to get one.

No, it's an avoidance. Doesn't fit into the scheme at all. And I mean, at all.You don't think they would've been able to get a big lug of a run-stopper since 1996?

I don't know... Herman Edwards runs the Tampa-2, and Jason Ferguson was a pro-bowl run-stopper on that team. Ferguson is 310 lbs. Dewayne Robertson was selected by Bradway & Edwards, and traded up for, no less. He hasn't fulfilled his potential yet, but he is developing well, and he's 317 lbs. Actually, a couple of years ago, there was talk of Oakland trading Jackson to the Jets for Shaun Ellis. With a hole at DT, I wouldn't be surprised if the Jets were interested in Jackson.

No offense, but what do I care what the Jets are doing? Just because Herm runs it, doesn't mean he runs it as well as Monte. And all those guys you mentioned were in the 305-315 range. Not 350, as diesel mentioned.Over 10 years there is no precedent for the Bucs giving any PT in their interior to some 340-lb lug. The interior gap men have to be smaller and quicker and able to get to the QB. They'll give up a little size with the DTs if it enables them to get a rush which allows the LBs to not blitz very often, so they can drop them back into coverage -- which is a big reason the pass D is so stout every year.

Sapp to Culpepper to Booger to Hovan, even DeWayne White and Ellis Wyms taking snaps on the interior -- they all have one thing in common. They're smaller and quicker than most DTs.

You add some rhino like Jackson in there and it completely changes the scheme. Not. Going. To. Happen.

I would think that a Pat Williams type of DT would free up the other linemen to beat their man in a more individual match-up.. at the very least, the defense wouldn't be as susceptible to the run. The Bengals like to use small, athletic defensive linemen too.. and teams that run well have their way with them every time.

So, because the Bengals have smaller interior linemen and have trouble stopping the run, the Bucs have the same problem.

 

[Capella]

I suppose.  One weakness of the Tampa two is that they've never had a big run-stopper.   I don't believe it's so much an avoidance or unwanting of one so much that they just haven't been able to get one.

No, it's an avoidance. Doesn't fit into the scheme at all. And I mean, at all.You don't think they would've been able to get a big lug of a run-stopper since 1996?

I don't know... Herman Edwards runs the Tampa-2, and Jason Ferguson was a pro-bowl run-stopper on that team. Ferguson is 310 lbs. Dewayne Robertson was selected by Bradway & Edwards, and traded up for, no less. He hasn't fulfilled his potential yet, but he is developing well, and he's 317 lbs. Actually, a couple of years ago, there was talk of Oakland trading Jackson to the Jets for Shaun Ellis. With a hole at DT, I wouldn't be surprised if the Jets were interested in Jackson.

No offense, but what do I care what the Jets are doing? Just because Herm runs it, doesn't mean he runs it as well as Monte. And all those guys you mentioned were in the 305-315 range. Not 350, as diesel mentioned.Over 10 years there is no precedent for the Bucs giving any PT in their interior to some 340-lb lug. The interior gap men have to be smaller and quicker and able to get to the QB. They'll give up a little size with the DTs if it enables them to get a rush which allows the LBs to not blitz very often, so they can drop them back into coverage -- which is a big reason the pass D is so stout every year.

Sapp to Culpepper to Booger to Hovan, even DeWayne White and Ellis Wyms taking snaps on the interior -- they all have one thing in common. They're smaller and quicker than most DTs.

You add some rhino like Jackson in there and it completely changes the scheme. Not. Going. To. Happen.

I would think that a Pat Williams type of DT would free up the other linemen to beat their man in a more individual match-up.. at the very least, the defense wouldn't be as susceptible to the run. The Bengals like to use small, athletic defensive linemen too.. and teams that run well have their way with them every time.

The Bucs allowed the 6th-least rushing yards in the league this year. '04 it was a bit of a problem, but it's not like teams have run roughshod over the Bucs in the past decade. Pat Williams is a very good player. He's much more of a likely fit than Jackson...the Bucs have used that position to eat lineman up to free up the likes of Sapp...that was Brad Culpepper's genius. He was so strong and so quick off the snap he'd take the center and a guard and Sapp could just blow in. But guys like Culpepper and Hovan (practically a clone of each other in a lot of respects) also get great pressure by themselves.

The Bucs often rush those four, and at times bring a blitzer like Ronder off the edge. There's a reason they can do that, and there's a reason an ILB like Quarles is always roaming 15 yards downfield.

 

[ren hoek]

So, because the Bengals have smaller interior linemen and have trouble stopping the run, the Bucs have the same problem.

No, I was mostly just griping about the fact that our run defense sucks.

 

[Bri]

Over 10 years there is no precedent for the Bucs giving any PT in their interior to some 340-lb lug. The interior gap men have to be smaller and quicker and able to get to the QB. They'll give up a little size with the DTs if it enables them to get a rush which allows the LBs to not blitz very often, so they can drop them back into coverage -- which is a big reason the pass D is so stout every year.

Sapp to Culpepper to Booger to Hovan, even DeWayne White and Ellis Wyms taking snaps on the interior -- they all have one thing in common. They're smaller and quicker than most DTs.

You add some rhino like Jackson in there and it completely changes the scheme. Not. Going. To. Happen.

The NFL changes alot in 10 years. Your Bucs are quite different than they were 10 years ago and IMO still playing a D that was to Sapp's strengths. As you know, he's not there anymore. Hovan is good but not defensive player of the year dominant DT build your D around him type guy. There's a big drop there IMO.There have been plenty of teams that have successfully used a big body DT to be a venerable wall while the LBers roamed free behind em'.

Alot of coaches believe in power over speed, others roll with speed over power. Your Buc DL are smallish but quick(as you said) but they can be pushed around because they are small. Simple leverage. If ya get a bigger guy then they won't get pushed around but won't have the quick feet either. I understand what you're saying but the NFL changes alot in 10 years. IF IF IF Monte wanted to let his LBers roam free I have a hard time believing Bucs fans that have always appreciated defense and loved Brooks and Hardy would have a prob with this.

Regardless, and a very key point, one player signing of Grady's "magnatude" won't change a D. He's not a stud. We're not talking about Ray Lewis or Urlacher etc you're overreacting. If Monte wants some beef for the 3rd and 1/goalline plays well then IMO Gruden+Co should get him that beef. BTW that's the one point a DL job is more just straight push and holding their ground than any other time so the quickness may not be considerred an advantage at the goalline. IMO they need a little bit of space to show their speed and there is none at the goalline for a DL. If Grady only plays 20 plays all year but they are all short of a first down, well then it was worth it. The Bucs D will not, nor does it have to, change for Grady Jackson. IMO You're overreacting, he'd just be another piece to the puzzle

 

[sho nuff]

Get him cheap? Do not think he will go very cheaply given he is a Rosenhaus client and complained in the last off-season about his money and contract...on top of that he had a pretty good year without any major injuries.

 

[Tony Jabroni]

Get him cheap?  Do not think he will go very cheaply given he is a Rosenhaus client and complained in the last off-season about his money and contract...on top of that he had a pretty good year without any major injuries.

Exactly.Grady is expecting a top-$ contract along the lines of the great run-stuffers.

Given his age, and propensity for injury, I just can't see anyone breaking the bank for him. Definitely had a solid year for the Packers, though.

 

[gruecd]

Get him cheap? Do not think he will go very cheaply given he is a Rosenhaus client and complained in the last off-season about his money and contract...on top of that he had a pretty good year without any major injuries.

Actually, Jackson fired Rosenhaus. Here's a link to the story:

TUE., JAN 3, 2006 - 4:39 PM

Packers notes: Jackson fires Rosenhaus

JASON WILDE

608-252-6176

jwilde@madison.com

GREEN BAY - Drew Rosenhaus has been fired by another Green Bay Packers client - nose tackle Grady Jackson.

Jackson, who'll be an unrestricted free agent after Sunday's season finale against Seattle at Lambeau Field, hired Rosenhaus last offseason in hopes of getting a new contract. When that didn't happen, Jackson aborted his threatened training-camp holdout and came back to play the final year of the two-year, $2.31• million extension he signed late in the 2003 season.

Now, in hopes of landing a deal commensurate with those of several other prominent nose tackles - Buffalo's Sam Adams, Minnesota's Pat Williams and Oakland's Ted Washington - Jackson said he dismissed Rosenhaus this week and has hired Angelo Wright as his new agent.

Wright represents all three of those players and got big-money deals for Williams (three years, $13 million, $6 million in bonuses), Washington (four years, $14 million, $4 million in bonuses) and Adams (four years, $10.25 million, $3.1 million in bonuses) in the past two years.

"It was a tough situation, but, you know, I feel like that was my way to go," Jackson said. "It's nothing against Drew. I just need to go another route."

Packers wide receiver Javon Walker fired Rosenhaus earlier this month. Asked if his decision had anything to do with Rosenhaus' negative reputation, Jackson replied, "It's more (that) I'm looking toward the future and all what's been going on. I don't need that (negativity) going into contract negotiations. I just wanted to go in on a positive note."