Armageddon T. Thunderbird
Footballguy
"There's no 'I' in team""Yeah, well there ain't no 'Key' either"
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Bucs release Meshawn (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter Fiddles
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Grilled Cheesehead
Footballguy
We continue to see that Tampa Bay fans are the biggest bandwagon-jumpers ever. A decade ago, your stadium looked like an Arizona Cardinals game. Now you all are ready to get rid of everyone who helped you win your first championship, less than a year after the fact. Nice fans, Tampa Bay. How about some loyalty for those that got you the title? Green Bay would never treat their champs like this.
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SeniorVBDStudent
Footballguy
Somebody (with more gumption than me) needs to report back here with a detailed analysis of year to date targets and come back with revised projections for Mcardle and Jurevicious (who I picked up 2 weeks ago, tee hee).ABOSOLUTELY LOVING the bichslap Key took today. Bye Bye Leon.
John Maddens Lunchbox
Footballguy
I think Keyshawn has an advantage here.If he retires and files his papers BEFORE June 1, wouldn't he count for 8 million on the salary cap, jst the same as if the Bucs cut him now? Sure he'd have to pay some of his signing bonus back, but if he wanted to be spiteful here's a way he could do it.Of course then the Bucs would own his rights, which may make playing again difficultAm I correct in my assumptions?
rhawkins68
Footballguy
Our rules actually cover it and allow for the owner that has him to make a waiver move. Although I only see him moving in one league and that is my 3 keeper league. All other 8 keeper and dynasties have to wait and see where he goes.
rhawkins68
Footballguy
Interesting thought. Though I think it would be bad public relations. Your looking at a player who is seen as a trouble maker. His agent is telling the coach how to call plays. He's making it known that he does not intend to play next year for Tampa. I'm pretty sure they know that the "i'd rather retire than play for you next year" is percieved as a threat and a way to get out of his current contract. And if what the TB organization is saying is correct he is also missing meetings and not performing required tasks such as studying play books. The players union will probably being treading lightly.
RoarinSonoran
Footballguy
I should call the Bucs. I'd be happy to sit on the bench for a FRACTION of what they're going to be paying KJ.
Yeah and the conversation would go something like this...union--- come on Rich take it easy and please promise us you won't be doing the same thing with Sapp anytime soon...Rich McKay---well we are looking at his contract as we speak, there are no promises to be made at this time...it's open season on detractors, you'll here about it thru the media when we make a decision...
The Z Machine
Footballguy
I think he wants to play for the Los Angeles team. 
Norman Einstein
Footballguy
Not to hijack the thread, but what happened to Freeman??
John Maddens Lunchbox
Footballguy
Anyone?
Grilled Cheesehead
Footballguy
Freeman dropped a pass for Green Bay on Sunday. Not sure what you're asking there, but if you are talking about him leaving Green Bay, what's your point? People leave town all the time. It's not like he was run out of town (obviously, since he was re-signed) and it would've been easy to do so - Freeman actually was committing crimes, unlike Keyshawn or Sapp. Freeman has been welcomed back warmly by Packer fans.
drutero235
Footballguy
:rotflmao: :rotflmao:
Grilled Cheesehead
Footballguy
Actually, Keyshawn's never been like that either. Keyshawn would prefer to do everything. His complaint has always been not being relied on enough.:rotflmao: :rotflmao:
The Full Nelson
Footballguy
The union stands up for all of them, regardless of how big of a horse's a*s they are. They don't report to the public, they report to the players that pay their dues to be a member of the union. They obviously don't care about PR since they back all the juice heads and criminals. They will be against this, but, as long as Keyshawn gets paid, they don't have much to complain about, unless they could prove it was done to avoid paying some performance bonuses.Anyone know if Keyshawn had bonuses for performance in his contract?
Wyld Stallyns
Footballguy
Exactly what I was thinking Cazador... I can't see Parcells/Dallas being interested in Keyshawn at all.In fact, as a life-long Lions fan I'm almost positive that he'll unfortunately end up in Detroit if it's at all possible. Millen (if he's still around in the offseason, I'm guessing that he will be) is always saying, "We need more RATS on this team... More A-Holes." Or something to that effect. Well, here's a HUGE one.
Genghis Khan
Footballguy
Detroit is going to get some competition from AZ. After all, he may be an underperformer now, but he could put some butts in the empty seats. It wouldn't be the first time they shelled out bucks for an over the hill player.
I'll take a shot at this. I am certain of the ramifications during the offseason. I am reasoning into the in-season ramifications.Keyshawn contract runs through 2007 (4 years after this year)I have heard cap hit is $8M (also heard $7M) to cut him now.Let's assume that is in addition to what he already counts against the cap this year, since that is a sunk cost.Finally, Keyshawn has a roster bonus of $2M (also heard $1M) in the 2004 offseason.If Keyshawn is cut after 6/1/04 and after the $2M bonus payout, his cap hit is $10M. $2.5M hits in 2004, $7.5M in 2005.If Keyshawn is cut between 3/1/04 and 5/31/04 and after the $2M bonus payout, his cap hit is $10M in 2004, $0 in 2005.If Keyshawn is cut between 3/1/04 and 5/31/04 and before the $2M bonus payout, is cap hit is $8M in 2004, $0 in 2005.Now to the parts I am less certain about:If Keyshawn is cut now (during the season), I think the cap hit will be $2M in 2003 and $6M in 2004. This is in addition to the cap space Keyshawn already takes up. Note that he has a prorated signing bonus taking up cap room. Plus TB is required to pay him his full salary this year too. However, if he is waived and claimed off waivers, then Keyshawns remainin salary probably no longer counts against TB.If a player retires, I believe there is a list (like injured reserve) for placing retired players. The team retains his rights (like the Redskins waived Deion Sanders late last year and then San Diego claimed him). Therefore, the team probably decides when the player goes on the list and when the cap hit occurs.
roadkill1292
Footballguy
Schadenfreude!Key is slow and has underperformed. Just a jumpstart on the inevitable.
JaxBill
Footballguy
For what? They're not breaking the CBA. The player is still getting paid. It's not like they're fining him for his salary or anything like that.Why on Earth would Keyshawn want to retire? What's the wrost thing the Bucs can do, keep paying him? Cut him right before training camp? Somebody would still sign him. The Bucs are kidding themselves if anybody's going to give something for a guy who has that kind of contract. And I want to see them squeeze under the March 1 cap figure with a ~ $7 Mil cap hit (Keyshawn's 2004 base salary of 5 Mil + 1 or 2 Mil roster bonus + amortized signing bonus) for a guy who you don't want to play. That's almost 10% of your cap tied up on the off chance somebody is stoopid enough to fork over a conditional 2nd round pick. That's why I don't buy all of this June 1 stuff. On or off the roster, he's still a huge cap hit with that contract. The only way they could trade him would be if Keyshawn would agree to a reduced contract but there's no way that Keyshawn and his agent would try to help the Bucs trade him when they would probably prefer to be released so they could negotiate with whomever they wanted.
buck naked
Footballguy
and you would be just as productive.
Keysersoze666
Footballguy
For those with Charles Lee questions ...He's a former Packer who teased the coaching staff EVERY Single training camp with flashes of greatness. In camp he would make spectacular catches routinely in practice and he had good size which the Packers crave in their receivers. He seemed smart enough but could never translate any of this potential into an actual game.When Green Bay decided to clean house before last year and dump ALL their receivers he went out with the wash. A number of coaches in GB were baffled why he never broke out ... he was an enigma.
Remus
Footballguy
How does this comment make him a bandwagon jumper? You're blasting a guy for agreeing with the decision of THE COACH WHO GOT US THE CHAMPIONSHIP. True, Keyshawn was on the team that got us a title, but his best year was in 2001. 2002 he had one touchdown. It's coming to light now that this guy was continually late, missed team meetings, complained to coaches both during and between games, and this despite the fact that there is a column on Gruden's play card with plays designed for Keyshawn to get the ball. As a Bucs fan, I am definitely a million times more behind Gruden than I could ever have been for Keyshawn.
Spanky267
Footballguy
Yes there are quite a few band wagon Buc fans. I am not one of them. I heard this news and initially thought it was a mistake and a battle of egos between Key and Gruden. But after watching the local reports and hearing McKay's comments on TV. I understand why they did what they did. This guy is a grade A tool. Its always been about Key and it will always be about Key. Prior to SB 37 Key always talked about how he wanted to get his "ring". Well he got it and now it appears its all about Key again. He's got talent and I was glad we got him in 2000. But he wore out his welcome. Also 620 WDAE is really the only sports station in Tampa. But you have to take Steve" Big Dog" Duemig with a grain of salt. He's nearly as big an ##### as Key. 620 has alot of the big players radio shows. Key, Booger, D. Brooks etc. so I can see why Duemig was running to Key's defense. I wonder if his radio show will continue???I think this is definitely a case of addition by subtraction.
Billy Bats
Footballguy
Kudos to Jon Gruden and the entire TB organization for standing up to a selfish, ego-maniacal jack###. Nobody is above the team, and KJ has been since he came into the league. If Jon Gruden can't get along with this idiot, what coach in the right mind would want him on thier team? I hope he retires. The only bad thing about this is he'll be the newest TV "analyst" somewhere on Sundays and we'll still have to see his face.
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Grilled Cheesehead
Footballguy
You must have missed the part where he said, "As a Buc fan I say good riddance. Hopefully Sapp will be right behind you and the door will hit both of you in the ### on your way to NY you POS media whores." I've never seen any group of fans turn so quickly on two stars who helped their teams to a championship. And for what? For being talkative to the press. My God, we would've run Curt Schilling out of AZ years ago if people cared about whether or not he was a media whore. All I care is that he's a law abiding citizen who helped win us a World Series. He's A-OK in my book for life. Apparently if he was a Devil Ray, TB fans (not that there are any) would want him out.
now thats just scary
NorvilleBarnes
Footballguy
Lame. Keyshawn and Sapp have been controversial their entire careers. Yes, Tampa Bay (like every team in the NFL) has its share of bandwagon fans as well as die-hards. If someone likes those players and defends them, you cry 'homer'. If someone doesn't like them, you get to say 'bandwagon fan'.
matrix9280
Footballguy
coaches don't get championships. players do.
Gaylord Focker
Footballguy
As far as bandwagon fans in TB, we have our fair share of them, just like any team does. Unfortunately, some of you are accusing true TB fans of bandwagon jumping simply because they are voicing their opinions on a couple of players. Personally, I can't stand that Sapp is the face of the Bucs in the media. I don't like the guy. But I'm glad he's on our side and we don't have to line up against him. Like him or not, if you ask any offensive coordinator in the league, and they'll tell you they have to gameplan for him when playing TB. That's why you see Sapp getting double teamed regularly, not Rice, Booger, or Spires/Wyms. My problem with Sapp is that his talk has been bigger than his production recently, and I'd rather see him shut up and play instead of opening his big mouth. He's just not worth the size of the contract he's going to be asking for after this season is up. The Bucs have made difficult decisions like this in the past, where aging vets demand more $$$ than they are truly worth (see Hardy Nickerson.) The issue with Keyshawn has been beaten to death, but I'd just like to add that if Keyshawn was a distraction in the locker room, or was disruptive by his tardiness to meetings, skipping mandatory practices, etc, then he had to go. I'd support any team that takes a firm stance against a prima donna like Keyshawn instead of letting him get his way when he cries. Gruden's track record speaks for itself. I support him over any selfish player any day!
Bummer about Key. I knew before I hit this site that a bunch of losers would be badmouthing the guy -- he has had a bad rap since he wrote that silly book. The thing is -- he is a workhorse. I have seen him drop a few more balls than I would like but I have never seen anyone play as hard as this guy. He is a MAJOR reason for last year's superbowl. Having said that, the Bucs would not have won last year without Gruden either. Since there was little chance that Keyshawn was going to be a Buc next year then I guess it is better in the long run that the Bucs did what they did. At least they keep Gruden happy and Gruden will be around long enough to right the ship. Still, I have to wonder why McKay would show his cards to the world like this. It seems to me that you bench Key or restrict his playing time and then try to trade him in the offseason. As it is, nobody is going to offer much in the way of compensation for a player they know the Bucs will have to waive. Oh well, as much as I like Gruden and Key, I have the most confidence in McKay -- the man is a great GM and I trust that he knows what he is doing.
TB had to announce something. They now want nothing to do with Keyshawn. No practices, no games, no hanging out at the facilities, nothing. It would have been very obvious on Monday if Keyshawn was not starting, not dressed for the game, and not on the active roster.I still believe the Keyshawn is untradable due to his large figures ($5M in 2004). I don't think anyone would think he is worth that much based on his production, even if he were a model citizen. So deactivating him has the upside of getting him away from the team (which TB obviously wants) while not hurting his trade value.
