Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
Bucs trying to trade #4 and Simeon Rice to the Lions for #2? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Dolfan
- Start date
Colin Dowling
Footballguy
I imagine that would at least get the Lions attention. Problem is, moving down would presumably be to draft Gaines Adams. If they took on a DE in a trade, then that would kind of make the play more for Quinn (???) which I don't see the Lions doing.
Presuming the Bucs are wanting to trade up to #2, that means they've fallen in love with a guy they doubt will be there at 4. I'm assuming it's Calvin Johnson. That said, I don't see Cleveland or Detroit drafting Johnson, so I would imagine that Tampa feels there are some other folks willing to trade up to 2 if Russell comes off the board as expected at #1.
Presuming the Bucs are wanting to trade up to #2, that means they've fallen in love with a guy they doubt will be there at 4. I'm assuming it's Calvin Johnson. That said, I don't see Cleveland or Detroit drafting Johnson, so I would imagine that Tampa feels there are some other folks willing to trade up to 2 if Russell comes off the board as expected at #1.
jurb26
Footballguy
Absolutely and I would even venture to name Atl and Min as those such teams.
baaloc1968
Footballguy
Or trade again to take Patrick Willis.
SDJohnny
Footballguy
then TB could trade the 2 to oakland and oakland wouldn't have to worry about anyone else taking Russell. If Oak and TB trade 1st and 4th spots oakland might not be able to get Russell.
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
x 1000Having Rice & White at the DEs, pick Willis at #4 for MLB, and get a very good Cover 2 DB in either the 2nd or 3rd and the defense improves by leaps and bounds.
jurb26
Footballguy
I have to agree that Det would look to trade down again. I think they look to get the BPA of Willis and the DBs.
gump
Footballguy
Not in the eyes of Bucs fans...this would be a great move IMO.The ONLY thing that would scare me is that we could still miss CJ if Oakland takes him...making the trade worthless. Why wouldn't the Bucs wait until after Oakland has drafted?
Last edited by a moderator:
Jene Bramel
Footballguy
and 
The pick value calculator has the difference between the two picks as 800 points, or the equivalent of the 21st overall pick. Rice was ineffective last year before the shoulder issue shut him down. To my knowledge, he's still not been deemed healthy enough to play. If the Lions think they can get what they want (by pick or further trade) at 4 they may take less value I suppose, but on the surface this looks like terrible value.That is the same thing I was thinking. If this happens then who's name do the Bucs call. They need linebackers but you certainly can't pull the trigger that early.
fruity pebbles
Footballguy
Rice is 33 years old and at the tail end of his career. Can't see him holding that kind of value.
I could bump my old post, but I'm not that kind of poster.Bingo...we have a winner. Pray the Cleveland takes Quinn or J. Thomas, leaving AP on the board. Then try to trade back further (Houston, Buffaloe, Atlanta) to someone who wants AP. Then take P. Willis in the 8 to 12 range.
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
Even if they can't trade out of #4, the Lions should take Willis.
Heck, I think they should take him if they have to stay at #2, even if it's too high and too much $$$ for a LB.
Heck, I think they should take him if they have to stay at #2, even if it's too high and too much $$$ for a LB.
Slinger
Footballguy
I remember. I wish the Bucs would just stay where they are and take whoever lands on their lap. They aren't one player away from being stellar again.I have been pulling for this trade to happen for months.I could bump my old post, but I'm not that kind of poster.
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
I think Gruden is thinking he's one player away from keeping his job.
We were without Rice most of last year, and i haven't thought he was worth his salary in a few years. Dude is like the highest paid athlete in Tampa along with Brad Richards & Vinny Lacavlier.
The pass rush has a chance to be dominant if he returns to full form, and we drafted a solid DT. But, if we don't draft a DT where are we next year? Simeon will probably bolt for Detroit anyways unless you franchise him. We should be getting Grant next year, so lets get something for Simeon while we can. Oh, and getting rid of his $10 cap hit would be nice as well.
The pass rush has a chance to be dominant if he returns to full form, and we drafted a solid DT. But, if we don't draft a DT where are we next year? Simeon will probably bolt for Detroit anyways unless you franchise him. We should be getting Grant next year, so lets get something for Simeon while we can. Oh, and getting rid of his $10 cap hit would be nice as well.
This is just speculation, but it seems like TB is blowing smoke about CJ to me. IMO, Oakland thinks we really want CJ, and they put out the rumor that we were trying to trade to #1. Now TB is saying they are certain Oak. will take Russel by putting this rumor out. I think they may want CJ to go #1 because they want a certain QB to fall to #4. I don't think TB wants a QB, but someone from 5-20 probably will. IIRC, they love Okoye & Carriker. So, if they can drop, and pick up one of these guys it's fine with me. Or, they could want JT to fall, and they know what Det. and Cle. are going to do.
Pimpin Ain't Easy
Footballguy
As a Caddy owner, I have a bad feeling the Bucs are trying to get ahead of Clevland so they can grab Peterson.
trader jake
Footballguy
Why trade up? If Cleveland takes an RB it just drops more talent AT POSITIONS THAT TB NEEDS into their lap. If they feel AP is a special player they could take him. Gruden trading up to select AP makes no sense imo.
massraider
Footballguy
My theory, if this trade is legit:
Detroit wants to move down. Calvin goes #1, they have no dancing partner.
Tampa and Oakland talk, and let Millen know they are talking. Detroit gets a little nervous, and takes a lowball offer of Rice and #4.
Now, Tampa can either stay at #2 , and dare Oakland to take CJ, or offer up a 2nd to move down 1 slot, which the Raiders would love to do.
The quicker this deal happens, the better the chances of Tampa moving up again. If they can get a 4th from Oakland, and only give up a 2nd and Simeon for CJ, that's a good deal.
Detroit wants to move down. Calvin goes #1, they have no dancing partner.
Tampa and Oakland talk, and let Millen know they are talking. Detroit gets a little nervous, and takes a lowball offer of Rice and #4.
Now, Tampa can either stay at #2 , and dare Oakland to take CJ, or offer up a 2nd to move down 1 slot, which the Raiders would love to do.
The quicker this deal happens, the better the chances of Tampa moving up again. If they can get a 4th from Oakland, and only give up a 2nd and Simeon for CJ, that's a good deal.
Last edited by a moderator:
ATC1
Footballguy
If DET doesn't want to pay for the #2, TB should jump on it right now for as low as they can get. If OAK wants Russell and they know TB wants CJ, why not trade with TB down to the #2 spot. They don't have to pay the #1 money, get a 2nd round pick and still get their guy. TB won't sell their entire draft to move up to #1, and DET still gets who they want at #2 and don't have to pay #2 money.They may even get to drop again to MIN/HOU who might want Peterson and grab Willis and pick up a good number of picks. IMO, DET should ask for more than just Rice to move down those two spots.
jurrassic
Footballguy
I wonder why SF is not involved in any of these rumors. They have an abundance of picks in the first 4 rounds and still have the #11 pick. They could move up to #2 and take Johnson, which would set them up on offense for years to come (Smith, Gore, Davis, Johnson). They could move their #11, #42, and #76. Detroit could get Willis at #11 and would have 2 2nds, and 2 3rds. If I were SF, I would throw in a 4th too if I needed too. I am not a Niners fan, but I would want this to happen.
Bizkiteer
Footballguy
It would appear that Tampa fans don't appreciate S. Rice at all. Yes, he's not perfect, but he's provided the Bucs with one hellva pass rush for several years. He's changed many games single handidly, but go to Raymond James Stadium and all you hear is them yelling about that he's a bum (being polite).
Sad, really...
Granted his age, but TB would have to come up with more than that though. Especially since it's been rumored that TB might cut Rice due to salary.
Sad, really...
Granted his age, but TB would have to come up with more than that though. Especially since it's been rumored that TB might cut Rice due to salary.
Last edited by a moderator:
jdraiders
Footballguy
Gruden will do that no matter who they draft. Also, they want CJ.....make no mistake about it. I would love to see them give 4 picks to the Raiders for that spot.......
Keep dreaming. The Bucs will try to move up to #2 to get either CJ or JT. Either would make Bucs fans happy. According to M Kiper that was just on ESPN J.Thomas is #2 on his draftboard that was shown on ESPN.
I just don't think he is worth his salary. He will be a FA and leave next year, so we might as well get something.
He won't say anything about his tricks
jdraiders
Footballguy
Mel Kiper quotes....now that is hillarious
T Man
Footballguy
While I would think that Detroit would try to hold out for more, the trade makes sense. It makes more sense if TB throws in another pick or two (or some from next year).
Marinelli coached Rice for many seasons. If Rice is healthy, Marinelli probably thinks he has a seasoned vet to man one DE spot. This frees up Detroit (who is rumored to want Adams) to draft best player available.
Also, Adams is too high at #2. So THey drop back to #4 and save money. THey then should have their choice of Peterson, Adams, THomas. AND, if one of the two QBs fall, they can move back again and garner a few more picks by trading with a team looking to get the QB. Maybe a drop back down to 7-10 for a team looking at one of the QBs or Peterson.
At that level they still have a choice of DEs, Brown or Thomas (who some say may fall out of the top 5), Landry, Willis etc.
Teams seem to be married to the draft pick value chart. Sometimes it makes sense not to get "full value" and still move down. You may still get the same player you are targeting, less money and acquire additional players and/or picks.
All in all, since Detroit will probably not pick CJ, it makes sense to get as much as they can by trading out of the spot.
Marinelli coached Rice for many seasons. If Rice is healthy, Marinelli probably thinks he has a seasoned vet to man one DE spot. This frees up Detroit (who is rumored to want Adams) to draft best player available.
Also, Adams is too high at #2. So THey drop back to #4 and save money. THey then should have their choice of Peterson, Adams, THomas. AND, if one of the two QBs fall, they can move back again and garner a few more picks by trading with a team looking to get the QB. Maybe a drop back down to 7-10 for a team looking at one of the QBs or Peterson.
At that level they still have a choice of DEs, Brown or Thomas (who some say may fall out of the top 5), Landry, Willis etc.
Teams seem to be married to the draft pick value chart. Sometimes it makes sense not to get "full value" and still move down. You may still get the same player you are targeting, less money and acquire additional players and/or picks.
All in all, since Detroit will probably not pick CJ, it makes sense to get as much as they can by trading out of the spot.
ILoveMyLions
Footballguy
The #4 and Rice isn't enough for the #2. The problem for TB is that Atl is supposedly also trying to trade up to #2 and has apparently offered the #8, and two #2's for the #2 overall if CJ was there. It was on Mlive this morning. The Bucs would then be faced with a tough decision. Do they up the ante, or face CJ twice a year for the next decade? I'm betting they ante up.
Oh, that would be exactly what the doctor ordered for the Lions. The #8 and a trio of 2nd round picks would go a long way in turning things around. Of course, the Lions could blow those picks and things are the same a few years from now.
ILoveMyLions
Footballguy
You seem to be blinded by sarcasm...Do you really think that drafting a player like Adams or Thomas at #2 over trading down to #8, drafting Willis or J. Anderson while getting 2 extra picks is better? Especially with the talent available at the top of round 2? Look at the recent FBG mockl draft or any other one for that matter, trading down is clearly better IMO and is likely the opinion of most...
I was talking on the phone, reading and responding at once. I agree that trading down and getting the picks is far better than staying at 1.02.
fatness
Footballguy
The best the Bucs can get for the #4 pick and Capella is a 2nd round pick.
ILoveMyLions
Footballguy
Got it. Let's keep our fingers crossed...
Similar threads
