Buying Audio (1 Viewer)

[VicLic2]

Good debate on NFL LIVE. It appears the Phins were able to purchase audio of Brady's signal calling, thus they were aware of alignment and protection packages. Clayton felt it was the "evolution" of the game and the homework it takes to coach in today's NFL. Salisbury on the other hand called it straight up cheating.

Thoughts?

 

[Colin Dowling]

How is that any different then studying hand motions and formations?

 

[iix]

wow, i'd like to see an article about this. i'm a dolphin fan... and i'd have to say they were cheating, as long as they paid for it. back in high school our team was taught every play call of one of our opponents. let's just say, it was brutal... and the other team felt very cheated. they knew what was going on.

anyway, if they're purchasing this stuff, it's wrong. if their coaching staff is picking it up on their own, then what can you do about it?

 

[Ron_Mexico]

Sean Salibury has no valid opinions,

he just automatically takes the opposite side

of Clayton.

He's a clown.

 

[The_Man]

When Brady calls out "Omaha" at the line it means the play clock is running down, and all motion or shifts called in the huddle are off.

It also means the snap is going to be on one.

Learned that at a little site I like to call Football Guys:

http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index...51&hl=omaha

If I knew it, I'm not surprised the Dolphins knew it. But I am surprised Mega Genius Bill Bellichik didn't know they knew it.

 

[Slinger]

Where in the NFL rules book does it say it's illegal?

 

[VicLic2]

Not certain it is any different than doing ANY other homework (this was Clayton's position). The fact though, that it was (allegedly) illicitly purchased from someone who had access to sideline audio equipment AND was in a position that an opposing team would NOT normally have access to, offers this up as a debatable issue IMHO.

 

[Slingblade]

Sean Salibury has no valid opinions,he just automatically takes the opposite side of Clayton.He's a clown.

 

[kevjones22]

Ya but he shouts when he talks so he must be correct!

 

[turnit643]

Ya but he shouts when he talks so he must be correct!

I think he believes that too.As for using the audio ... I'd like to hear more about who they bought it from. It is fishy (or "phishy" I guess) that it would have to be purchased. Whoever had it knew it was a commodity that wasn't readily available ... and the the Dolphins apparently thought it was important enough that they gave some cash for it. Illegal? Probably not. But I'd bet there'll be more sideline access restrictions coming soon.

 

[NOONAN]

Ya but he shouts when he talks so he must be correct!

I think he believes that too.As for using the audio ... I'd like to hear more about who they bought it from. It is fishy (or "phishy" I guess) that it would have to be purchased. Whoever had it knew it was a commodity that wasn't readily available ... and the the Dolphins apparently thought it was important enough that they gave some cash for it. Illegal? Probably not. But I'd bet there'll be more sideline access restrictions coming soon.

Actually, I would expect it to go the other way. Kinda like the QB helmet deal where the coach can talk directly to his guy instead of using hand signals like back in the day. It is probably something that is already more common than we know.

 

[AhrnCityPahnder]

wow, i'd like to see an article about this.

here ya go:http://www.finheaven.com/News/Miami_Dolphi...e_200612113607/

Greg Bedard's writes:

The plan the Dolphins used to once again thwart Tom Brady - all four of his games with fewer than 100 yards passing have come against Miami - actually began last season after New England's 23-16 victory over the Dolphins on Nov. 13.

To this day, the Dolphins are convinced the Patriots stole their defensive signals in advance of that game. That insider knowledge, the Dolphins believe, allowed New England to know Miami was blitzing - and to adjust accordingly - on the game-winning 17-yard touchdown pass from Brady to Benjamin Watson with 2:16 to play.

This week, the Dolphins got even. Instead of just watching the soundless coaches' films to scout the Patriots, Miami purchased films that had audio of the signals Brady gives at the line - specifically the Patriots' signals to the offensive line that control Brady's protection. Armed with that information, the Dolphins listened to Brady's calls Sunday and adjusted where they brought pressure.

"I think that helped a lot," said Zach Thomas.

The Dolphins also spent extra time in practice and meetings installing new blitz packages designed by defensive coordinator Dom Capers and working to disguise what they were going to do against Brady.

"If you show your hand early, he'll burn you," said safety Yeremiah Bell, who had a sack, forced fumble and recovered fumble. "What we wanted to do was kind of play with him a little bit. We know he waits until the play clock gets late before he does anything. So what we did was when he was playing around with us, we were just playing around with him.

"When it was time to hike that ball, he didn't know what we were going to do."

 

[iix]

primo, thanks. reading now.

 

[Banger]

Awesome stuff. The Pat's have been rumored to have done the same thing the Fins last year. Turnabout is fair play.

 

[Nemesis]

IIRC, a yr or two ago........Belichik's next opponent waived a player late in the season (a WR, if I recall) and then he immediately picked him up for the week to learn more about the opponent. After the game, I think the Pats waived the player.

Anybody else remember?

Legal?..........of course.

Did he do it so that the opponent would have to change all the calls in 1 week and therefore, spend more time on it in practice?

 

[The_Man]

When Parcells was with the Giants, he did the same thing with Redskins' Long Snapper/back-up TE John Brandes. Redskins had to let him go because of a roster squeeze.

Brandes made a point of saying he wasn't going to tell Parcells anything. Giants let him go promptly, and I'm pretty sure he hooked back up with the Redskins.

 

[Bri]

Awesome stuff. The Pat's have been rumored to have done the same thing the Fins last year. Turnabout is fair play.

Yeah the Fins believed the Pats supposedly did this on their winning TD to Ben Watson last year. One play makes me a little hesitant but the way the Fins owned the Pats all day Sunday makes me think this is true. Also with one play, isn't it possible the Fins just called that D play/alignment so much the Pats just recognized it? The Fins smotherred the Pats all day, Brady + co were awful. Glad it's out now in regular season. Now the Pats can change it up for the playoffs. All in all though, many old coaches believe you should be able to run a play that the D knows is coming. The Pats had no crispness in their execution and weren't very good on Sunday.

 

[Bri]

here ya go:

http://www.finheaven.com/News/Miami_Dolphi...e_200612113607/

This week, the Dolphins got even. Instead of just watching the soundless coaches' films to scout the Patriots, Miami purchased films that had audio of the signals Brady gives at the line - specifically the Patriots' signals to the offensive line that control Brady's protection. Armed with that information, the Dolphins listened to Brady's calls Sunday and adjusted where they brought pressure.

SnippedThe purchased part bugs me. I'm sure there's rules for scouting NFL teams. Is the guy they purchased it from an official Fins scout? Is he some fired guy from the Pats organization that went thru tapes?

Here it says the Fins did the research.

http://www.patriots.com/news/index.cfm?ac=...053&pcid=41

Landry's binoculars created rules for scouting teams many years ago. I don't know what they are but I know they exist, pretty famous story.

 

[Banger]

here ya go:

http://www.finheaven.com/News/Miami_Dolphi...e_200612113607/

This week, the Dolphins got even. Instead of just watching the soundless coaches' films to scout the Patriots, Miami purchased films that had audio of the signals Brady gives at the line - specifically the Patriots' signals to the offensive line that control Brady's protection. Armed with that information, the Dolphins listened to Brady's calls Sunday and adjusted where they brought pressure.

SnippedThe purchased part bugs me. I'm sure there's rules for scouting NFL teams. Is the guy they purchased it from an official Fins scout? Is he some fired guy from the Pats organization that went thru tapes?

Here it says the Fins did the research.

http://www.patriots.com/news/index.cfm?ac=...053&pcid=41

Landry's binoculars created rules for scouting teams many years ago. I don't know what they are but I know they exist, pretty famous story.

I really don't see what the problem is. I believe Gruden used inside info agaisnt Gannon a couple years back in the Super Bowl. If the Pats recognized what was going on and changed their codes, etc. the info purchased would have been worthless. It's all a game and this time the Pats got

 

[Bri]

here ya go:

http://www.finheaven.com/News/Miami_Dolphi...e_200612113607/

This week, the Dolphins got even. Instead of just watching the soundless coaches' films to scout the Patriots, Miami purchased films that had audio of the signals Brady gives at the line - specifically the Patriots' signals to the offensive line that control Brady's protection. Armed with that information, the Dolphins listened to Brady's calls Sunday and adjusted where they brought pressure.

SnippedThe purchased part bugs me. I'm sure there's rules for scouting NFL teams. Is the guy they purchased it from an official Fins scout? Is he some fired guy from the Pats organization that went thru tapes?

Here it says the Fins did the research.

http://www.patriots.com/news/index.cfm?ac=...053&pcid=41

Landry's binoculars created rules for scouting teams many years ago. I don't know what they are but I know they exist, pretty famous story.

I really don't see what the problem is. I believe Gruden used inside info agaisnt Gannon a couple years back in the Super Bowl. If the Pats recognized what was going on and changed their codes, etc. the info purchased would have been worthless. It's all a game and this time the Pats got

I don't wholly disagree. All in all maybe the Fins get a fine for using a scout not registerred with the league.

 

[MarshallRob]

NFL Says Dolphins Broke No Rules With Video

The NFL said the Dolphins broke no rules after a published report said Miami bought a video that helped it learn Tom Brady's cadences.

BY JEFF DARLINGTON

jdarlington@MiamiHerald.com

They didn't break any rules. They didn't cheat or steal or lie. And they didn't do anything that will prompt a futile investigation by the United States Senate.

No, the Dolphins did something much simpler to learn the presnap jargon of Patriots quarterback Tom Brady during Sunday's 21-0 win: They watched TV.

Nonetheless, the strategy turned into a made-for-ESPN debate Tuesday without the Dolphins knowing it. The mini-controversy stemmed from a published report in The Palm Beach Post on Monday that credited the Dolphins' ability to frustrate Brady with the team's ability to learn his cadences earlier in the week.

The Post's article referenced that the Dolphins were able to purchase video of Brady's previous games to learn his auditory calls at the line of scrimmage caused a stir on talk radio and television.

The NFL said Tuesday there is no rule that would prohibit the Dolphins from practicing such a strategy -- even if they ''purchased'' the videos. Saban said Monday the Dolphins watched TV clips of Brady to get the calls, a strategy he admitted to helping his team.

''It's on TV,'' Saban said. ``You always try to get the other team's cadence. I'm sure they try to get ours, so when you know when a guy's checking off, when he isn't checking off. When a team does as much presnap stuff as they do, you're always trying to find out exactly why they're doing it.''

Saban said it is especially important with a player such as Brady because he is highly skilled at giving new assignments to his offensive linemen once he sees the defense line up.

''He likes to redirect the protection if he sees a blitz coming,'' Saban said. ``Understanding the cadence and knowing what's going on is really important. Sometimes you end up pressuring and you run right into their protection then you have pressure on the cover guys down the field.''

Still, Saban's explanation Monday didn't stop the national media from taking off with the story. Shows such as Around the Horn, Pardon the Interruption and SportsCenter debated whether the Dolphins did anything wrong.

Only one analyst -- former NFL quarterback Sean Salisbury -- thought the league should look into the matter if indeed the Dolphins purchased the videos.

''If it was that easy to get the audio, everyone would be doing it,'' Salisbury said on SportsCenter. ``The NFL needs to look into it. If [the Dolphins] went out and bought a tape in order to get advantage, that's cheating. The NFL would have to step in. If you're going to purchase bootleg videos, it's cheating.''

Replied ESPN reporter John Clayton: ``That's just good coaching on the part of the Dolphins.''

 

[cr8f]

Ever watch the coaches on the sideline blocking their mouth with the charts. They think the other team will hire lip-readers. Come on. These are network feeds they can use and have for a long time.

Belichick is full of ####.