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Doubt he works out and is more then a bottom half of the league starter but crazier things have happen.
As long as the Oline gives him time I like his chances. John Clayton was on sportscenter just a minute ago. He said he still thinks that Luke McCown still has the edge on the starting spot due to running the offense this offseason but he think Leftwich will push him and might eventually run away with the starting position.
I'll definitely be watching the competition through camp and preseason. Should be interesting.
This is my guess as well. Everything Ive heard down here has been how McCown is the starter, and they have een saying they will bring in another veteran as backup. My guess is it will just be an open competition, but I think the coaches would like McCown to win it.
Wasn't he a rookie last year? Give him another couple seasons before you close the book on him. I like him but I think his future down the road will be with another team.
I don't think Leftwich would stabilize the position. I don't think he will win a head-to-head competition with McCown. Leftwich was below average as a starting QB, he's a valuable back up though.
Agreed, I would think of Leftwich as an upgrade to Griese.
You're probably right...it's too early to give up on him entirely. But, unless the Bucs are in major "win-now" mode, it seems like a good opportunity to give a young guy a good look. You could very well be right with your thought about another team down the road.
Is this because you're extremely high on Leftwich, way down on McCown, or a bit of both? and can you explain why you feel this way about these players?Leftwich wins this job...EASILY.Upgrade all Bucs offensive players.
A) Leftwich is better than McCown in almost every phase of the game with the exception of accuracy, and even there I think he's comparable despite the difference in career passing percentage(McCown with a very limited dataset.) There are reasons why NFL scouts graded Leftwich significantly higher than McCown. Let's not forget Leftwich has a decided experience advantage as well.B) The Bucs don't bring in Leftwich unless they want him to compete for a starting job...and Leftwich doesn't go to to the Bucs unless he's told he will compete for the job. This doesn't bode well for McCown IMHO.Sigmund, why do you like McCown?Is this because you're extremely high on Leftwich, way down on McCown, or a bit of both? and can you explain why you feel this way about these players?Leftwich wins this job...EASILY.Upgrade all Bucs offensive players.
I can't disagree that Leftwich will get a chance to compete for the starting job, but that's not a revelation. Just about any QB that TB signed would have gotten that shot.I am actually pretty high on Leftwich and think he's gotten a raw deal around the league. His limitations are well-known, but I still think he's one of the 32 best QBs in the league. I would handicap him as the favorite in this battle too, I just wouldn't write off McCown so quickly. First - to address your assertions in A 1) " Leftwich is better than McCown in almost every phase of the game with the exception of accuracy" - McCown has a couple of distinct advantages over Leftwich that have nothing to do with stats - much much better mobility, and a much shorter, less pronounced windup on his throwing motion. These issues might not be as important as they would be if the Bucs hadn't installed a new OC (Jagodizinski) who is going to move to a ZBS running game, more downfield passing, and more two TE sets. Still, when you compare McCown and Leftwich side by side, those jump out as areas where McCown's game is better.2) "Nfl Scouts rated Leftwich higher" - scouts grades at the time these two were draft prospects is irrelevant. Scouts graded Joey Harrington a lot higher than Tom Brady. Who cares? This should have no bearing on the discussion.3) "Let's not forget Leftwich has a decided experience advantage as well." - McCown has thrown about 45 more passes in the last two seasons than Leftwich, and both have the same amount of experience in Jago's system - zero. Again, this doesn't seem so compelling to me.Why do I like McCown?He's clearly not afraid to let it all hang out and test a defense. Kind of Sage Rosenfels, he doesn't play afraid, he's more of a gunslinger. He moved the offense and forced the defense to honor the threat of his legs when he started four games for the Bucs late in 07. McCown threw one game winning TD on 3rd and goal with :16 left, and threw a 24 yard TD with less than 2 minutes left to give the Bucs a chance to tie the game on a 2 pt conversion (that he missed) - still the point is, he didn't shy away from the big moments, something that is an important indicator for QB success.Another important thing to consider here is that new regime signed McCown right away, giving him 7.5 mil over 2 years. I dont know the terms of Leftwich's deal, but Im positive that he didnt get 7.5 mil or a 2.5 mil signing bonus like McCown. Organizations show their beliefs through money more than anything else. Those beliefs turn out to be wrong sometimes, but for now I think the $ given to McCown and his track record as a modestly successful QB (1000+ yards, 5-3 TD-INT in 4 starts in 07) means we shouldnt automatically count him out, or say Leftwich will win "easily".A) Leftwich is better than McCown in almost every phase of the game with the exception of accuracy, and even there I think he's comparable despite the difference in career passing percentage(McCown with a very limited dataset.) There are reasons why NFL scouts graded Leftwich significantly higher than McCown. Let's not forget Leftwich has a decided experience advantage as well.B) The Bucs don't bring in Leftwich unless they want him to compete for a starting job...and Leftwich doesn't go to to the Bucs unless he's told he will compete for the job. This doesn't bode well for McCown IMHO.Sigmund, why do you like McCown?Is this because you're extremely high on Leftwich, way down on McCown, or a bit of both? and can you explain why you feel this way about these players?Leftwich wins this job...EASILY.Upgrade all Bucs offensive players.
A) I think Leftwich can throw as hard as anyone, but I think McCown (or just about anyone else) has a significant mobility advantage. And if you knock Leftwich for his accuracy, isnt that one of the most important factors of being a QB? And the reasons Leftwich was ranked higher? How about all those scouts that had every other QB in front of Brady? B) The bucs have been saying they wanted to bring in another QB, so it shouldnt be a surprise they signed him. They might have told him he can compete, and Im sure they will. But the money they gave McCown says they want HIM to be the starter.A) Leftwich is better than McCown in almost every phase of the game with the exception of accuracy, and even there I think he's comparable despite the difference in career passing percentage(McCown with a very limited dataset.) There are reasons why NFL scouts graded Leftwich significantly higher than McCown. Let's not forget Leftwich has a decided experience advantage as well.B) The Bucs don't bring in Leftwich unless they want him to compete for a starting job...and Leftwich doesn't go to to the Bucs unless he's told he will compete for the job. This doesn't bode well for McCown IMHO.Sigmund, why do you like McCown?Is this because you're extremely high on Leftwich, way down on McCown, or a bit of both? and can you explain why you feel this way about these players?Leftwich wins this job...EASILY.Upgrade all Bucs offensive players.
I don't think scouts grades has any bearing anymore, does it?My problem with Leftwich has always been his foot speed and release. The combination of the slowest feet since Kosar and the slowest release--ever. To me that puts way too big a burden on the O-line. I think he's capable of stringing a few good games together, but eventually, his physical limitations catch up with him. Lefty might win this job, but I think McCown is the QB for this team by the end of the year.A) Leftwich is better than McCown in almost every phase of the game with the exception of accuracy, and even there I think he's comparable despite the difference in career passing percentage(McCown with a very limited dataset.) There are reasons why NFL scouts graded Leftwich significantly higher than McCown. Let's not forget Leftwich has a decided experience advantage as well.Is this because you're extremely high on Leftwich, way down on McCown, or a bit of both? and can you explain why you feel this way about these players?Leftwich wins this job...EASILY.Upgrade all Bucs offensive players.
This is schtick right? Lefty is the panacea for the Bucs offense? Seriously?Leftwich wins this job...EASILY.Upgrade all Bucs offensive players.
These guys all look about the same to me. They all probably deserve a spot on an NFL roster as a backup. I don't see an answer to Tampa Bay's problems here. Are any of these guys definitely better than Jeff Garcia?Maybe Lefty is the answer; we'll see, I guess.
Please, list the phases of the game that Leftwich has over McCown. As someone who has seen every snap that McCown has ever taken in the NFL (preseason and regular season), and has seen a lot of Leftwich as well, I'm very curious to see your list.A) Leftwich is better than McCown in almost every phase of the game with the exception of accuracy, and even there I think he's comparable despite the difference in career passing percentage(McCown with a very limited dataset.) There are reasons why NFL scouts graded Leftwich significantly higher than McCown. Let's not forget Leftwich has a decided experience advantage as well.B) The Bucs don't bring in Leftwich unless they want him to compete for a starting job...and Leftwich doesn't go to to the Bucs unless he's told he will compete for the job. This doesn't bode well for McCown IMHO.Sigmund, why do you like McCown?Is this because you're extremely high on Leftwich, way down on McCown, or a bit of both? and can you explain why you feel this way about these players?Leftwich wins this job...EASILY.Upgrade all Bucs offensive players.
--Leftwich roughly matches McCown in completion percentage, and almost exactly matches him in TDs/Attempt and yard/attempt--Leftwich 54 games played vs 12 for McCown--Leftwich turns the ball over roughly 1 in every 12 times he drops back (fumbles + interceptions)/(attempts + sacks) vs about 1 in 8 for McCown - more than one extra turnover for McCown per 30 attempts.--Leftwich is sacked 5.5% of the time he drops back vs. 10.1% for McCown (obviously impossible to separate this from o-line - but dispels the idea that Leftwich is a liability here... Garrard's sack rate is 6.9% for comparison)So I think the question would be why would you take the less experienced, more turnover-prone, more sack-prone McCown when he apparently does nothing better than Leftwich?
i think leftwich's ineffective tenure as a falcon says a lot more about petrino than it does anything else. the fact of the matter is, leftwich has been effective pretty much everywhere but atlanta. he's been solid, maybe not exceptional, with the jags and steelers in the past. i'm not sure of his FF impact if he somehow manages to become the starter for the Bucs. i do not have much faith in mccown, quite frankly.
More money?And, even if told he would backup McCown, which situation provides him a better opportunity to play... backing up McCown or backing up Roethlisberger?
McCown is more accurate, more mobile, and I'd even argue that his arm strength is just as good as Leftwich's. McCown is a hard worker, and a leader. Any time I listen to McCown talk, I come away impressed. Definately has the right attitude. More turnover prone? I don't think so. Let's take a look at McCown's 3 INT's from his rookie year:2007 @ New Orleans: 3rd down, the Saints show blitz, so McCown audibles. Galloway runs the wrong route, which causes the pass to be picked off.2007 @ San Fran: Ball bounces off Alex Smith's hand's and goes up in the air. Obviously not the QB's fault.2007 vs Carolina: Bucs are down by 8 late in the game. McCown tries to make too much happen and makes a poor throw that gets picked off. So of his 3 INTs, only one was a bad throw. Not that 3 INTs in 139 attemps is a lot anyway.And as far as his sacks go, yeah, I'd say the one knock on him is that he sometimes holds onto the ball too long. But I'd rather have a sack than an INT.With Leftwich, you have a solid backup. You already know what you get with him, and it isn't great. All McCown needs is experience. He has all the tools to be a very good QB.
Leftwich will be the starter and have success in T.B.Perfect place for him to land, no other QB on the roster is as good as Lefty
Luke is not a roadblock in his way. Only way Lefty isn't the starter is if he gets injured.
I don't see how you can speak in such absolute tone?
Chris Simms makes 3.46 in 09, Orton makes 1.09.
Forgot to add that McCown also has $6.5M in incentive bonuses to possibly earn as well. Not sure of the criteria but I'd guess that he gets some of that if he's the starter all year.A voice of reason...money talks.
Completely different situation. Orton was signed by Chicago before the trade and that's the old deal he's playing under for this year. You can't use Simms as a basis of comparison.That's like comparing Cutler's contract ($1.035M for 09) isn't a starter's contract, and when the Bears finally add a QB2 for $1.5-2M a year then he's going to become the starter.
Please explain.texasbirdfan said:
I'm not sure it's that simple. If McCown were negotiating with the Bucs now, after Leftwich signed, would he get the same structure? If you can defer most of the money to the second year, why wouldn't you? The Steelers basically offered him min wage so the Bucs offered something better. I think Leftwich signed because he thinks he'll have a (real) chance to compete for the starting job. The playbook is much simpler now, so I think both will be ready to step up during camp/preseason/regular season depending on how the other one does. I'd give McCown the edge but wouldn't even say it's his job to lose. I think it will be pretty open. Actually, I don't see great things for the Bucs this year so I expect to see both.
