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C. Whitehurst to SEA or ARI possibly? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Black
- Start date
Jason Wood
Zoo York
This is the most fascinating QB move out there IMHO. He's a complete unknown and yet so many teams have shown interest in him and aren't balking at his lack of PT or the 3rd round cost (I believe he was tendered for a third, right?).
Sabertooth
Footballguy
Is he related to David Whitehurst? The old Packers QB.
identikit
Footballguy
Charlie is David's son...
Black
Footballguy
Yup, that's his dad. Charlie went to Clemson. That's all I know.
Sabertooth
Footballguy
Thanks.
Teams apparently think he has the tools to succeed -- he's tall, has a strong arm, and was good in college. I guess people think he'll be the second coming of Matt Schaub. He's an unknown, even to Chargers fans. They picked him in the 3rd round, despite more pressing needs at the time, so they obviously liked what they saw. I guess other teams do, too.
Black
Footballguy
It's weird to me that a former 3rd round pick that nets a 3rd round pick is a good deal for the Chargers? I don't get it. You'd think a kid with a few years experience would be worth more than that?
Sabertooth
Footballguy
Wouldn't they also get the right to match any offer? Maybe they underestimated the interest in him.
I can see your point on the surface, but rarely do guys go for what they were drafted at (at least by good GMs). My general rule of thumb is that guys that show a little something may go for their drafted value or a little more (say a Kolb for example), but the majority of the guys go for less. Whitehurst has been on the team for 4 years and has not yet thrown a pass. While I realize he has Volek and Rivers in front of him, he has been a QB3 this whole time. I realize there is some potential there, but the fact is, he never moved up the ranks during that time and I think a 3rd is pretty generous. All the Chargers will do is use that pick or a subsequent one and select another QB to develop and start the clock again. Eventually Charlie will be a UFA and they would have to either pay him Vet money to sit on the bench or lose him for nothing.
Well, they placed a 3rd round tender on him. I see what you mean, but he'll be 28 when the season starts and remains completely unproven in the NFL.
The guy has never done anything now teams want to go after him for a third even though he is 28. If they thought so highly of him why didn't they go after him last year or trade up in the draft to get him. I don't watch Chargers preseason games but did he look like Tom Brady during them. I could see if the Seattle or Arizona's coach came from SD when he was there but this just baffles me.
Sabertooth
Footballguy
He's been in the league a while. Seattle has a different staff than they had in 2006. Arizona does as well. So I don't see how you can say they should have traded up to get him in the draft. Also, Arizona had Warner. Seattle recently traded away Seneca Wallace too so the need may not have been as great in 2009. Here is his NFL profile page. He hasn't done much by the numbers. Even in preseason.
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bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
My guess is AJ lets him walk for a 3rd rounder.
The dude never played outside of the pre-season. Obviously he's been seasoned for awhile under Norv
The dude never played outside of the pre-season. Obviously he's been seasoned for awhile under Norv
I brought him up in the deep dynasty waivers thread earlier this offseason - he's a mystery man because the Chargers have deemed him worthy of carrying as a #3 QB and giving him an original round tender, but you can't really find any account of the sentiment about him among the team's coaches. He is definitely "projectable" in a Derek Anderson kind of way (big frame, big arm, and more athletic than Anderson), but his decision-making really stunk at times at Clemson and I could see him totally cratering as easily as I can see him actually becoming a reasonably good backup. Definitely a must-add in your 40-45 man IDP deep dynasty leagues strictly on opportunity and pedigree.
Mr. Bojangles
Footballguy
The Seahawks do not have a 3rd rounder to give SD. However, reports are that the Hawks and Chargers have agreed upon compensation should Whitehurst sign the Seahawk tender. My question is this:
Could the Seahawk say swap first round picks with SD (#6 for #28) and have SD throw in Whitehurst and a 3rd rounder and then the Seahawks sign Marshall to a tender Denver won't match, thus giving up one of their 1st rounders but not a pick as high as 6?
The Seahawks then come away with Whitehurst, Marshall and a 3rd, SD gets pick #6, and Denver gets pick # 28?
Seattle then has picks #14, #40, and #91 (I think) to rebuild.
Could the Seahawk say swap first round picks with SD (#6 for #28) and have SD throw in Whitehurst and a 3rd rounder and then the Seahawks sign Marshall to a tender Denver won't match, thus giving up one of their 1st rounders but not a pick as high as 6?
The Seahawks then come away with Whitehurst, Marshall and a 3rd, SD gets pick #6, and Denver gets pick # 28?
Seattle then has picks #14, #40, and #91 (I think) to rebuild.
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bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
as a charger fan I love this plan, make it happenThe Seahawks do not have a 3rd rounder to give SD. However, reports are that the Hawks and Chargers have agreed upon compensation should Whitehurst sign the Seahawk tender. My question is this:Could the Seahawk say swap first round picks with SD (#6 for #28) and have SD throw in Whitehurst and a 3rd rounder and then the Seahawks sign Marshall to a tender Denver won't match, thus giving up one of their 1st rounders but not a pick as high as 6?The Seahawks then come away with Whitehurst, Marshall and a 3rd, SD gets pick #6, and Denver gets pick # 28?Seattle then has picks #14, #40, and #91 (I think) to rebuild.
identikit
Footballguy
This would be a pretty shrewd deal for at least SD and Seattle....The Seahawks do not have a 3rd rounder to give SD. However, reports are that the Hawks and Chargers have agreed upon compensation should Whitehurst sign the Seahawk tender. My question is this:Could the Seahawk say swap first round picks with SD (#6 for #28) and have SD throw in Whitehurst and a 3rd rounder and then the Seahawks sign Marshall to a tender Denver won't match, thus giving up one of their 1st rounders but not a pick as high as 6?The Seahawks then come away with Whitehurst, Marshall and a 3rd, SD gets pick #6, and Denver gets pick # 28?Seattle then has picks #14, #40, and #91 (I think) to rebuild.
identikit
Footballguy
Thanks for the info...I was afraid of that...
Gr00vus
Footballguy
Judging from what I've seen of him in his preseason games, his decision making still stinks.Seems his most notable accomplishment so far in his Charger career is trying to look like jeebus (or maybe Barry Gibb
- who was really just the disco version of jeebus anyway).
What would Charlie do?
If they can get a pick for him that'd be great. They can find another guy to never take a regular season snap late in the draft for a rookie contract.
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I was somewhat bewildered no one made a move for him last offseason. Hes got 4 years of learning behind a great coaching staff and two veteran QBs, hes got all the physical tools...for the low cost, I thought for sure someone would take a shot on him and trade the Chargers a pick. Maybe SD didnt want to move him.
Just for clarification's sake, it doesnt HAVE to be their original pick, but it can't be lower than their original pick in the round. (e.g. they could acquire the #4 pick and send it to DEN for Marshall, but not the #7).
Very interesting thought. Not sure about the Marshall piece, but I do think this Whitehurst trade could be part of something bigger...i.e. Whitehurst and Sproles end up in Seattle....The Seahawks do not have a 3rd rounder to give SD. However, reports are that the Hawks and Chargers have agreed upon compensation should Whitehurst sign the Seahawk tender. My question is this:Could the Seahawk say swap first round picks with SD (#6 for #28) and have SD throw in Whitehurst and a 3rd rounder and then the Seahawks sign Marshall to a tender Denver won't match, thus giving up one of their 1st rounders but not a pick as high as 6?The Seahawks then come away with Whitehurst, Marshall and a 3rd, SD gets pick #6, and Denver gets pick # 28?Seattle then has picks #14, #40, and #91 (I think) to rebuild.
Just throwing it out there, but does anyone find it interesting that he remained the QB3 for four seasons (and possibly a fifth). I don't mean this as a knock on his abilities, actually the opposite. I always thought of the QB3 role as a developmental role where within 2-3 years max, said QB moved up or out. I am not sure what to make of this, just am intrigued that he remained on the roster so long in that role. Not a knock that he couldn't beat out Rivers or even Volek, but either a testament that the coaches feel he has something to offer, or they are just too lazy to replace him with another prospect. Is he on his original rookie deal?
Gr00vus
Footballguy
That's about right. He's been the pet project they could live with. His 4 year deal just ended (I think he got $530K last season). If someone wants to give him a bigger payday I'm sure the Chargers will be fine with letting him try his luck elsewhere. With #17 around QB3 isn't a high priority.
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His rookie deal expired this offseason. Hes an RFA under the 6 yrs or less rule with the CBA expiring. Seems like after his second year there was some offseason talk of a team making a move for him, but SD was unwilling to move him. Dont know if that was also the case this past year (or I could be getting my timelines confused).
The Chargers won't match another team's offer; they'd like to get a third-rounder for him. Not because Whitehurst doesn't have potential, but because the Chargers already have Rivers and Volek.
Whitehurst has a good arm. His accuracy is inconsistent. He started a lot of games in college, and he's spent several years being tutored by Norv and learning under Rivers. That gives him an advantage over the rookie prospects in this draft. A team isn't going to find a better immediate option in the third round this year, so making a play at Whitehurst makes sense.
Whitehurst has a good arm. His accuracy is inconsistent. He started a lot of games in college, and he's spent several years being tutored by Norv and learning under Rivers. That gives him an advantage over the rookie prospects in this draft. A team isn't going to find a better immediate option in the third round this year, so making a play at Whitehurst makes sense.
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Incogneto
Footballguy
Seahawks do not have a 3rd round pick, so there would have to be other compensation worked out for him to accept the Seahawks offer.
Matt Waldman
Footballguy
2006 RSP excerpt of a game during his junior year that I think highlights his ceiling well. Player: Charlie Whitehurst Date: 9/17/2005 Opponent: MiamiBlack said:
Overall Strengths: Whitehurst did a good job executing a successful gameplan to limit the Miami blitz. The Clemson quarterback has a strong arm and good mobility within the pocket. When he breaks the pocket he has enough speed to gain extra yardage, although this is not a regular part of his game. Whitehurst makes solid reads and is successful in the two-minute drill. He is a poised quarterback when his team is down, and his team looks to him for leadership in pressure situations. While, I don't see him as a special talent he has the tools to develop into a successful starting quarterback at the NFL level capable of high production with good players around him. He is a physically tough football player that performs well with injury.
Overall Weaknesses: Whitehurst does not follow through with his throws when under pressure. Many of this throws tend to sail high on him, which is mostly likely a flaw in his release or footwork that can be corrected with additional coaching. Whitehurst tends to throw off his back foot, which can create a naturally high throw. He also needs to make consistently better decisions.
Accuracy: Whitehurst tends to deliver the ball a little high, but so far his targets have a height advantage and 2 out of his 6 incompletions were dropped. The other 5 were off target, but 4 looked as if he and the receiver weren't on the same page. This problem included a miss-communication in the waning seconds of the 4th QTR when Whitehurst threw a quick out and the receiver (Kelley) was running to the back of the end zone. He and Kelley had multiple issues like this throughout the game. Whitehurst throws a variety of short routes accurately to both receivers, backs, and ends on the outside and middle of the field. Every single pass he missed was thrown too high. In the 4th quarter, Whitehurst was too high on a pass to Curtis Baham when Baham was wide open in the soft spot of the zone 20 yards down field. Whitehurst has the potential to be a good rollout passer. He moves well, but his throws are just a bit off-- generally not thrown to the correct shoulder and this allows defensive backs to make a play on the ball. On the very next play, Whitehurst rolled right under pressure and tried to throw into a zone as he was getting hit. The pass was intercepted to end the ballgame.
Arm Strength: Whitehurst throws a pretty deep ball. On the first play of the game he just missed on a 45-yard play action bomb that was less than a hand-length overthrown. He can throw the ball 50 yards standing still. Whitehurst actually overthrew a long pattern as he was getting hit in the motion of throwing, and the ball covered 50 yards.
Delivery: Whitehurst tends to throw off his back foot, especially when he senses even a hint of pressure. In the 3rd quarter, inside the opponent's 30-yard line, Whitehurst overthrew a wide open receiver running a route down the middle of the field into the endzone. He missed the receiver by 5-7 yards because his follow-through wasn't complete.
Decisions: On first third down situation, Whitehurst stared down his receiver on a sideline route which almost resulted in an interception. On his third attempt in the first quarter, Whitehurst sensed the blitz and knew he had one on one coverage down the sideline. He threw a nice ball, but the receiver didn't run the correct route. If he did, it could have been a long gain, if not a touchdown. Clemson ran a lot of WR screens in the first quarter as an attempt to slow Miami's pass rush. Whitehurst tended to stare down his receivers, but executed a very conservative gameplan of short, quick passes to start the contest. He made quick decisions and threw the ball away when necessary. Whitehurst threw to 9 different receivers in the first half. As Whitehurst got more comfortable in the pace of the game, he did a better job of looking off defenders before his throws. In the 4th QTR with less than a minute left, Whitehurst used a pump fake to make the safety pause just before drilling it to the receiver 20 yards down the field. The pass was completed inside the 5 yardline and set up the eventual, tying score. He did miss a possible game- winner to Stuckey--Whitehurst threw a fade under a safety blitz inside the 5-yard line. He was under heavy pressure and he rushed the throw. He didn't see a wide open Stuckey running uncovered. Otherwise it would have been a easy score. It was actually a good play, because he didn't take the sack or risk throwing it in a bad spot for an INT. Whitehurst did throw into double coverage on 4 attempts during this game.
Ball Handling: Whitehurst performed two very effective play fakes. One resulted in a 65-yard run. The second, was an incomplete pass, which he overthrew an open TE. He does a great job handling the ball in comparison to his peers. He is one of the best at play fakes in this class of prospects.
Pocket Presence: Whitehurst looked jittery in the pocket to start the game. He had a decent sense of the pass rush. Whitehurst delivered the ball to a spot on the field that allowed the receiver to make a play without competing for the ball with the defender. On a 3rd and 7 in the second quarter Whitehurst stepped up in the pocket, and while moving, hit the receiver up the middle of the field for a 38-yard gain. It was a perfect throw that only the receiver could catch although he was in double coverage. He does a nice job moving around within the pocket. Two of his biggest plays were a result of stepping up in the pocket and throwing to a receiver.
Scrambling Ability: He had a 65-yard run to open the second quarter. Whitehurst play-faked to the RB up the middle and went off tackle. The playfake was key, but he had enough speed to beat LBs and some of the secondary.
Durability: Played with an injury to his throwing shoulder this year and still competed with a foot injury.
Character: He has 7 come from behind wins in his career. He brought Clemson back against Miami when down by 10 points, and drove the length of the field twice to tie the game.
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Yes. According to (Chargers beat writer) Kevin Acee, the Seahawks have already worked out compensation that would be acceptable to the Chargers if they decide to sign Whitehurst to an offer sheet. Acee says the deal might be kind of complicated, perhaps involving a combination of picks and a player.
Black
Footballguy
x2as a charger fan I love this plan, make it happenThe Seahawks do not have a 3rd rounder to give SD. However, reports are that the Hawks and Chargers have agreed upon compensation should Whitehurst sign the Seahawk tender. My question is this:Could the Seahawk say swap first round picks with SD (#6 for #28) and have SD throw in Whitehurst and a 3rd rounder and then the Seahawks sign Marshall to a tender Denver won't match, thus giving up one of their 1st rounders but not a pick as high as 6?The Seahawks then come away with Whitehurst, Marshall and a 3rd, SD gets pick #6, and Denver gets pick # 28?Seattle then has picks #14, #40, and #91 (I think) to rebuild.
Black
Footballguy
Wow, I feel lazy. Just had Matt email me all these RSPs back to 2006, and didn't think to check if for Charlie. Sorry, Matt.
