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California: "Sodomite Suppression Act" needs your support. (1 Viewer)

Leviathan

Footballguy
I've witnessed a few kooky initiatives on the ballot before, but this one takes the cake! :loco: I'd put my money down on this one not obtaining enough signatures to make the ballot.

http://www.npr.org/blogs/itsallpolitics/2015/03/24/395070728/calif-lawyer-proposes-ballot-initiative-to-kills-gays-and-lesbians

California's system of direct democracy — the voter initiative process — has produced landmark laws reducing property taxes, banning affirmative action and legalizing medical marijuana.

Now there's a bid to declare that "the people of California wisely command" that gays and lesbians can be killed.

You read that right.

The "Sodomite Suppression Act," as proposed, calls sodomy "a monstrous evil" that should be punishable "by bullets to the head or any other convenient method."

The act would punish anyone who distributes "sodomistic propaganda" to minors with a $1 million fine, and/or up to 10 years in prison, and/or the possibility of a lifetime expulsion from California.

The proposal comes from a Huntington Beach-based attorney, Matt McLaughlin. He did not return calls for comment, and his voice mailbox is full.

Now maybe you're thinking there's no way such a blatantly illegal measure would ever be approved by California voters.

But here's the rub: We might get a chance to find out, because it appears that there's no legal way for state officials to stop the author of this proposal from collecting enough voter signatures to put it on the ballot.

Legal experts are left shaking their heads.

Vikram Amar, a constitutional law professor at the University of California, Davis, said he is almost reluctant to even get drawn into the discussion "to give this guy the attention he wants."

Still, Amar noted there are at least two big issues at stake.

One, given that it costs only $200 to submit an initiative and start the signature-gathering process in California, perhaps the fee should be higher to discourage people from abusing the process. (On the other hand, that could make it prohibitive for legitimate grass-roots petitions to gain traction without well-off backers.)

Two, some advocate that the state attorney general, the official whose job duties include writing a title and summary for any proposed initiative, should have the authority to kill a proposal that would conflict with superseding law — like murder. (Of course, then elected partisan officials with their own political agendas would be the filters.)

But both of those ideas raise their own problems, Amar said.

"Anyone who has 200 bucks for an initiative, probably can raise 2,000 bucks," he said. "But raise it to something meaningful like [10,000] or 20,000 bucks, then you're sending a message about the accessibility of direct democracy."

Kim Alexander, president of the California Voter Foundation, favors raising the fee, even though she said, "It won't stop people from submitting crazy ideas."

Like Amar, Alexander does not favor the idea of allowing an elected official, in this case Attorney General Kamala Harris, to block the measure outright by calling it illegal.

The initiative process "needs to be kept at arm's length from the Legislature and the politicians who frequently want to usurp its power," Alexander said.

The initiative's author has provoked discussion and controversy. In fact, there have been calls for McLaughlin to be disbarred for advocating murder.

But, in the end, Amar doubts his idea will ever get enough voter signatures to qualify for the ballot. It's estimated that a ballot-initiative campaign in California costs about $1 million to collect the 365,888 signatures to qualify.

It will take several million dollars more to get enough signatures for such a controversial idea, Amar contends.

"But if I get approached by someone asking me to sign this thing," Amar said, "that will spoil my day having to think about this guy."
 
The initiative's author has provoked discussion and controversy. In fact, there have been calls for McLaughlin to be disbarred for advocating murder.
WTF? He's not advocating murder. Murder is the unlawful killing of a human being by another human being. He's advocating a change in the law so that killing gays would not be unlawful.

You can't make it illegal to advocate a change in the law. First Amendment, brohans!

 
I'm not a lawyer but can't they block it on the grounds that even if it passed, it would be illegal?
If it's passed, why would it be illegal?
Wouldn't this be a violation of freedom of speech:

The act would punish anyone who distributes "sodomistic propaganda" to minors with a $1 million fine, and/or up to 10 years in prison, and/or the possibility of a lifetime expulsion from California.
Any show with a gay character could be accused of "sodomistic propaganda" to minors.

 
I'm not a lawyer but can't they block it on the grounds that even if it passed, it would be illegal?
If it's passed, why would it be illegal?
The bullets to the head part maybe.
Because the death penalty has been ruled unconstitutional in California?

We know from the Prop 8 case that the California constitution can be amended by the proposition process, so the proposed law just has to say "... and nothing in the California constitution shall be deemed to prohibit killing gay people."

 
Wouldn't this be a violation of freedom of speech:

The act would punish anyone who distributes "sodomistic propaganda" to minors with a $1 million fine, and/or up to 10 years in prison, and/or the possibility of a lifetime expulsion from California.
Yeah, that would be struck down as violating the federal Constitution. But I think that doesn't happen until after it's passed.

 
A lot of nervous nellies are willing to weaken democracy and put yourselves even more at the mercy of the powerful at the drop of a hat.

This initiative has no chance to be taken seriously, no chance to gather enough signatures, zero chance to pass and zero chance to be in any way legal. Yet, just bring up such an outlandish prospect and the fish just jump into the boat crying that they have too much freedom and too many rights.....

 
A lot of nervous nellies are willing to weaken democracy and put yourselves even more at the mercy of the powerful at the drop of a hat.

This initiative has no chance to be taken seriously, no chance to gather enough signatures, zero chance to pass and zero chance to be in any way legal. Yet, just bring up such an outlandish prospect and the fish just jump into the boat crying that they have too much freedom and too many rights.....
Yeah it seems this is a clear case of the cure being worse than the disease

 
The initiative's author has provoked discussion and controversy. In fact, there have been calls for McLaughlin to be disbarred for advocating murder.
WTF? He's not advocating murder. Murder is the unlawful killing of a human being by another human being. He's advocating a change in the law so that killing gays would not be unlawful.

You can't make it illegal to advocate a change in the law. First Amendment, brohans!
plesae do not use the word brohans to talk about this idiot or his stupid proposal it ruins the word brohans take that to the bank bromigo

 
Plenty of laws are passed and then struck down by the courts. I guess what I was trying to ask was - why even allow it to start if it's known that it will be struck down? I'm sure I'm not wording this right.

 
Plenty of laws are passed and then struck down by the courts. I guess what I was trying to ask was - why even allow it to start if it's known that it will be struck down? I'm sure I'm not wording this right.
Probably for the same reason that a guy like Ted Cruz is running for President, without any realistic hope of winning.

 
Wouldn't this be a violation of freedom of speech:

The act would punish anyone who distributes "sodomistic propaganda" to minors with a $1 million fine, and/or up to 10 years in prison, and/or the possibility of a lifetime expulsion from California.
Yeah, that would be struck down as violating the federal Constitution. But I think that doesn't happen until after it's passed.
I agree, but do you think they'd be able to obtain an injunction first to keep the law from ever being practically applied?

 
I see the author here is a lawyer.

Any chance this is just simply the greatest shtick/troll ever to expose an entire state's bigotry and the dangers of democracy?

 
Wouldn't this be a violation of freedom of speech:

The act would punish anyone who distributes "sodomistic propaganda" to minors with a $1 million fine, and/or up to 10 years in prison, and/or the possibility of a lifetime expulsion from California.
Yeah, that would be struck down as violating the federal Constitution. But I think that doesn't happen until after it's passed.
I agree, but do you think they'd be able to obtain an injunction first to keep the law from ever being practically applied?
It looks like the California Attorney General is seeking an injunction to keep the proposition off the ballot.

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-kamala-harris-antigay-initiative-20150325-story.html

I can't tell from skimming the article what her argument is based on -- the federal Constitution or only California procedural stuff. If the former, I don't see how it's a ripe controversy. If the latter, I'd be interested in seeing what she comes up with.

 
I'm not a lawyer but can't they block it on the grounds that even if it passed, it would be illegal?
You're not a lawyer, but you're ####### smarter than most of the people in California.

No, as the ballot initiative structure stands now - you can pay $200 and then make up any ####### crazy ### ballot you want to submit. Get enough people to sign your petition and there you go, on the ballot for the idiot voters of California to make into a law. Doesn't matter if it's illegal, discriminatory, unconstitutional - doesn't ####### matter at all. PG&E had a really clever one about 8 years ago. They called it, "The Taxpayers Right to Choose Act." Now, who in this country would vote against something called "Taxpayers Right to Choose"? Only people that read the bill and understood it was there to eliminate green energy competition for PGE.

The initiative structure for voting needs to be eliminated. You vote for your politicians that make the laws. That is the way our government structure is supposed to work. Politicians still make horrible laws that get struck down as unconstitutional, but at least not with the same regularity as your dipstick Californian off the street.

When I saw this proposal, I instantly thought... "Oh, this guy is trolling to prove a point. The initiative structure will come into the limelight and be eliminated."

But nope, not a troll. Just another wacko religious nutbag.

 
The initiative's author has provoked discussion and controversy. In fact, there have been calls for McLaughlin to be disbarred for advocating murder.
WTF? He's not advocating murder. Murder is the unlawful killing of a human being by another human being. He's advocating a change in the law so that killing gays would not be unlawful.

You can't make it illegal to advocate a change in the law. First Amendment, brohans!
Troll level: 9!

How many signatures are needed?
360,000+/- Not sure how many baptists we have in the state, but this would stand a great chance of making the ballot in the south where all you redneck religious idiot inbreds live.

P.S. Apologies to those of you who live in the south and aren't:

rednecks

religious

idiots

inbreds

Plenty of laws are passed and then struck down by the courts. I guess what I was trying to ask was - why even allow it to start if it's known that it will be struck down? I'm sure I'm not wording this right.
You are on the right track sir. But let's just hurry up the process and eliminate propositions altogether.

I see the author here is a lawyer.

Any chance this is just simply the greatest shtick/troll ever to expose an entire state's bigotry and the dangers of democracy?
No, this guy is really bat#### insane. He tried to get another proposition on the ballot a few years back - making the Bible a mandatory textbook. He's also really hard to find: http://talkingpointsmemo.com/muckraker/matt-gregory-mclaughlin-kill-all-gays-california

 

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