Calvin Johnson owners (1 Viewer)

[zed2283]

Calvin Johnson scored on a long TD where he was called out of bounds at the 3-yard line. He was clearly not out of bounds, but the referee said that they could not award a TD even if the call was reversed. I'm usually fairly up on the rules... but why not?? If the replay shows he stayed in bounds then why can't they award a score (especially since he was running in from the 3 with no one in position to make a play)?

Aren't TD's awarded all the time on plays like this? Or are they all only plays that were called TD's on the field? What about the RB diving for the cone who is called out of bounds? They overturn those, right?

 

[Knobs]

I'm guessing the play was whistled dead...you can overturn a non call but you can't undo a bad call.

That's why good refs will let things play out before using the whistle...

 

[Northbound Train]

I was as confused as I have ever been on that ruling...isn't that's what video replay is for???

Terrible call and it may very well cost me a W this week

 

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

When did the whistle blow? Since DTV Saints - Lions short cut is on now I guess I'll see. But I assume that the whistle blew the play dead at the three.

 

[NoCheese]

I was as confused as I have ever been on that ruling...isn't that's what video replay is for???Terrible call and it may very well cost me a W this week

Here's hoping it doesn't

 

[Balance]

When did the whistle blow? Since DTV Saints - Lions short cut is on now I guess I'll see. But I assume that the whistle blew the play dead at the three.

They reviewed it and the call stood.

 

[Northbound Train]

Whistle did not blow....they ruled he stepped OB when he clearly didn't even clome close....they said that is not reviewable when a Ref makes that call that he is OB

 

[zed2283]

When did the whistle blow? Since DTV Saints - Lions short cut is on now I guess I'll see. But I assume that the whistle blew the play dead at the three.

They reviewed it and the call stood.

They did not review the play. The Lions threw the challenge flag and then withdrew it once the official explained they could not be awarded a TD.

 

[zed2283]

Whistle did not blow....they ruled he stepped OB when he clearly didn't even clome close....they said that is not reviewable when a Ref makes that call that he is OB

The stupid thing is that he had already scored by the time the ref made the call.

 

[DaddyFatSacks]

When did the whistle blow? Since DTV Saints - Lions short cut is on now I guess I'll see. But I assume that the whistle blew the play dead at the three.

They reviewed it and the call stood.

The play was not reviewed.

 

[Football Jones]

I don't have Calvin on any of my dynasty teams (unfortunately), but I purposefully stayed away from him in redraft leagues. I don't think there's any question CJ would be more productive with Culpepper in there. That said, I agree with the decision to start Stafford. The Lions aren't going anywhere so they may as well get Stafford a full year's worth of experience.

CJ no doubt will be hindered some by Stafford (especially against good Ds). I believe CJ will disappoint some given his ADP (especially in non-PPR leagues), but I don't think it's because Stafford is an inferior QB to Matt Ryan, Joe Flacco, or Mark Sanchez. It's not hard to understand why those three QBs have been much more successful than your typical rookie QB (other than their obvious talent). The reason? They had/have lots of help (good personnel around them, including a solid D). Stafford? Not so much (especially his OL & the D). It makes a big, big difference, IMO.

 

[apalmer]

I'm guessing the play was whistled dead...you can overturn a non call but you can't undo a bad call. That's why good refs will let things play out before using the whistle...

Yep. Whistling a play dead because you think a player is down ends the play. Defensive players are no longer allowed to tackle the ballcarrier, so the rule is written that the ball can't be advanced from that point. Now, obviously, nobody else could have touched Johnson between the 3 and the goal line, but that doesn't change the rule or the ref's ability to "take back" the whistle. There was a simialr play I saw yesterday (can't remember which game): QB got hit as he was about to throw. The ball slipped out of his hand and was falling down his wrist when he made a throwing motion. The ball hit the ground and bounced to a defender who was about to toss it back, then decided to take off for the endzone. The ref blew the whistle, calling it an incomplete pass. On review, in slow motion, he could see it was a fumble, so the defense could recover. However, they couldn't advance it (even though there was nobody near him when he had done so), so no TD.

 

[FavreCo]

If you didn't see the game, here is how bad that call was:

NO pummelling DET 28-7.

3-6-DET33 (14:11) (Shotgun) M.Stafford pass short left to C.Johnson pushed ob at NO 3 for 64 yards (P.Prioleau). Ripped off on horrible call

1-3-NO3 (13:35) Kv.Smith right guard to NO 2 for 1 yard (C.Grant).

2-2-NO2 (12:56) J.Felton right guard to NO 2 for no gain (S.Fujita, W.Smith).

3-2-NO2 (12:14) M.Stafford pass incomplete short right to C.Johnson.

PENALTY on NO-D.Sharper, Personal Foul, 1 yard, enforced at NO 2. You incompetant idiots can't score from the 1, here's a makeup penalty and 4 more tries.

1-1-NO1 (12:11) Kv.Smith right guard to NO 1 for no gain (S.Fujita).

PENALTY on NO-C.Grant, Personal Foul, 0 yards, enforced at NO 1 - No Play. You guys suck bad. Here's another makeup penalty.

1-1-NO1 (11:50) M.Stafford up the middle for 1 yard, TOUCHDOWN

The interference call on Calvin was about the most blatant makeup call I have ever seen. 2 defenders fighting for the ball and it was just a bad pass. No interference.

 

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

Can't tell on short cuts if the whistle blew. The official that was moving to mark the ball was pretty far out of bounds so can't tell if he was signaling the play dead either. Finally, the replay (in standard definition) wasn't very conclusive. So all of this leads back to the original guess that the official that moved to mark the ball asserted he blew the play over at that point, which is not correctable. Never has been. That being said he probably wasn't quick enough to actually blow the whistle before Johnson scored at the speed of the play, but that is not reviewable either.

 

[Doug B]

The interference call on Calvin was about the most blatant makeup call I have ever seen. 2 defenders fighting for the ball and it was just a bad pass. No interference.

Even weirder -- it wasn't even PI, it was a shot-to-the-head Personal Foul. Yeah, Sharper's arm hit CJ's helmet incidentally as they were going up for the ball, but it wasn't like a Deacon-Jones headslap or something. That call goes unmade in the NFL 99 out of 100 times....

I'll be the dissenting voice -- I've not seen a replay that shows that Calvin Johnson was decisively in-bounds on that play. The problem in all the replays I saw was that the angle was wrong -- all the replays had Calvin's left shoe obscuring the sideline. A replay from behind the ref would've been more helpful.

I can tell, however, that if CJ was out of bounds, it was by no more than 1/2 inch. It was mega-close.

 

[Doug B]

Can't tell on short cuts if the whistle blew. The official that was moving to mark the ball was pretty far out of bounds so can't tell if he was signaling the play dead either. Finally, the replay (in standard definition) wasn't very conclusive. So all of this leads back to the original guess that the official that moved to mark the ball asserted he blew the play over at that point, which is not correctable. Never has been. That being said he probably wasn't quick enough to actually blow the whistle before Johnson scored at the speed of the play, but that is not reviewable either.

I agree with your take about what the replay showed -- some people seem to be talking as if he was in by a foot. Even if it were reviewable, the replay wasn't conclusive that he was inbounds.

 

[kncks12]

When did the whistle blow? Since DTV Saints - Lions short cut is on now I guess I'll see. But I assume that the whistle blew the play dead at the three.

They reviewed it and the call stood.

They did not review the play. The Lions threw the challenge flag and then withdrew it once the official explained they could not be awarded a TD.

He was not out, the official clearly called him out like a turd and waived his arms blowing it dead. It was an absolutely horrible call by the official. Really, if they are not sure of a play let it go and then it can be reversed on a review, he took that out of the reviews hands and blew it dead. He was not out

 

[pantherclub]

CJ is a talent, that is not debatable. But to some who say he will benefit from having Stafford in there are just being totally obtuse. Stafford didnt look good at all yesterday even for a rookie.

 

[Doug B]

Really, if they are not sure of a play let it go and then it can be reversed on a review, he took that out of the reviews hands and blew it dead.

For right or wrong, they are supposed to call games as if there were no replay. AFAIK, NFL officials are taught to always make a call, not lay back and count on replay. Replay is meant to be an aid in correcting mistaken calls, not the initial arbiter of what happens on the field. Replay is also not meant to be 100% ... sometimes even with a replay, a conclusive call cannot be made.

 

[harryhood]

Cost me 6 too but oh well - something like this happens WEEKLY.

On a side note, how impressive was that catch and run?? Calvin is really fun to watch at the NFL level.

 

[UlyssesNorris]

An absolutely atrocious call by that ref. It appeared to me, from the field-of-play angle, that he was not out of bounds. I'd think any other angle would be even friendlier to CJ than the one they showed.

Regardless, as a ref you simply can't make that call unless you're sure the player did, in fact, step out of bounds. For no other reason than because once you've called him out, it's not a reviewable call. If you're not sure, let the play run, and let the defense challenge whether the guy stepped out or not.

 

[packersfan]

CJ is a talent, that is not debatable. But to some who say he will benefit from having Stafford in there are just being totally obtuse. Stafford didnt look good at all yesterday even for a rookie.

No he didn't but keep in mind the Lions' QBs had the 29th-ranked QB rating collectively in the league last season. Despite that, Johnson put up 78-1,331-12. As the OP said, he got jobbed out of a TD by poor officiating yesterday. Include that TD which he should have gotten and his fantasy day isn't terrible despite having only three receptions. I'm not sure how good Stafford will be but I don't think he'll be worse than the crew the Lions trotted out at QB last season. Calvin overcame their collective ineptitude and I think what he did last season is his floor as a result. If Stafford improves upon that production even marginally, I think Calvin's potential production increases as a result.Yesterday sucked for Calvin owners but I think he'll more than reward his ADP as the season goes along.

 

[UlyssesNorris]

Really, if they are not sure of a play let it go and then it can be reversed on a review, he took that out of the reviews hands and blew it dead.

For right or wrong, they are supposed to call games as if there were no replay. AFAIK, NFL officials are taught to always make a call, not lay back and count on replay. Replay is meant to be an aid in correcting mistaken calls, not the initial arbiter of what happens on the field. Replay is also not meant to be 100% ... sometimes even with a replay, a conclusive call cannot be made.

Interesting, I'd not heard before that refs were instructed that way. My opinion is that for those times when their call isn't reviewable, they shouldn't be making a call unless they see it clearly. They should treat out of bounds plays the way they treat incompletions--don't blow the whistle unless you actually see the ball hit the ground.

 

[zed2283]

If you didn't see the game, here is how bad that call was:

NO pummelling DET 28-7.

3-6-DET33 (14:11) (Shotgun) M.Stafford pass short left to C.Johnson pushed ob at NO 3 for 64 yards (P.Prioleau). Ripped off on horrible call

1-3-NO3 (13:35) Kv.Smith right guard to NO 2 for 1 yard (C.Grant).

2-2-NO2 (12:56) J.Felton right guard to NO 2 for no gain (S.Fujita, W.Smith).

3-2-NO2 (12:14) M.Stafford pass incomplete short right to C.Johnson.

PENALTY on NO-D.Sharper, Personal Foul, 1 yard, enforced at NO 2. You incompetant idiots can't score from the 1, here's a makeup penalty and 4 more tries.

1-1-NO1 (12:11) Kv.Smith right guard to NO 1 for no gain (S.Fujita).

PENALTY on NO-C.Grant, Personal Foul, 0 yards, enforced at NO 1 - No Play. You guys suck bad. Here's another makeup penalty.

1-1-NO1 (11:50) M.Stafford up the middle for 1 yard, TOUCHDOWN

The interference call on Calvin was about the most blatant makeup call I have ever seen. 2 defenders fighting for the ball and it was just a bad pass. No interference.

And even worse, I'm not so sure Stafford was in.

 

[FavreCo]

And even worse, I'm not so sure Stafford was in.

I forgot about that part. I was already so disgusted but you are right. It was like 'ok, close enough'.