It is not fair because it is not a good comparison. Mike Williams had no speed and limited physical ability. Calvin has ALL the physical tools in the world.Calvin looks very lethargic and unaggressive. He dropped at least a couple easy balls and seems very frustrated.It's not fair to compare him to Mike Williams of a few years ago, but I will anyway: Both are big-framed and highly touted WRs who's underwhelming performances were compounded by being frustrated within a floundering offense. There, I said it.![]()
Martz getting the boot would be ideal...At times I wonder who the head coach is on this team...Best thing for Calvin & the Lions is for this team to lose out (highly likely). Kitna did predict 10 (losses...he was confused by his own sucktitude). Then Martz will be sent packing and possibly Chan Gailey will come in as OC. That will get a running game going and possibly they can find a QB. They don't have one. I am not even sure what that thing is lining up under center right now.
yes the mike williams comparison is unfair- how about charles rogers?Chadstroma said:It is not fair because it is not a good comparison. Mike Williams had no speed and limited physical ability. Calvin has ALL the physical tools in the world.Rev said:Calvin looks very lethargic and unaggressive. He dropped at least a couple easy balls and seems very frustrated.It's not fair to compare him to Mike Williams of a few years ago, but I will anyway: Both are big-framed and highly touted WRs who's underwhelming performances were compounded by being frustrated within a floundering offense. There, I said it.![]()
That is harder to defend but I think the kid should get some grace this year. I mean, he does have Kitna throwing the ball to begin with. Then he is still a rookie that is not in the most simple of systems. Further, he has been dealing with a back injury and those tend to nag at a guy for a while keeping him from being 100%. Finally, (and most importantly) I have him in both my keeper and dynasty leagues.yes the mike williams comparison is unfair- how about charles rogers?Chadstroma said:It is not fair because it is not a good comparison. Mike Williams had no speed and limited physical ability. Calvin has ALL the physical tools in the world.Rev said:Calvin looks very lethargic and unaggressive. He dropped at least a couple easy balls and seems very frustrated.It's not fair to compare him to Mike Williams of a few years ago, but I will anyway: Both are big-framed and highly touted WRs who's underwhelming performances were compounded by being frustrated within a floundering offense. There, I said it.![]()
That's because there is nothing to scan. When Martz calls a play, that is the play and there are no "reads" for a QB, and the QB has no authority to change the play. If the playcall is a run, the play remains a run even if the defense puts 11 guys in the box. If the playcall is a slant to McDonald, the play is a slant to McDonald even if Calvin Johnson has no defender in his zip code. I read a long article in PFW sometime earlier this season that explained it. What Martz calls is the only thing players are allowed to execute, good or bad.Never once did he scan the field. Martz/Kitna is embarrassingly bad.
I would still think that a QB would go through his progressions. I can understand not changing the play form run to pass or pass to run......but if he has 3 wr and a RB running routes I would think he could check down from his #1 option.That's because there is nothing to scan. When Martz calls a play, that is the play and there are no "reads" for a QB, and the QB has no authority to change the play. If the playcall is a run, the play remains a run even if the defense puts 11 guys in the box. If the playcall is a slant to McDonald, the play is a slant to McDonald even if Calvin Johnson has no defender in his zip code. I read a long article in PFW sometime earlier this season that explained it. What Martz calls is the only thing players are allowed to execute, good or bad.Never once did he scan the field. Martz/Kitna is embarrassingly bad.
I know nothing is CJ's fault around here, but he did drop some easy catches and I didn't see him getting open or any separation all game.FarveCo is dead on. He was never even looked at. He could have been wide open, or lying on the ground with both legs broken, and Kitna would have never known. F'n stupid Martz...
"Progressions"? Detroit fans are free to chime in here if I misread something in PFW, but I do not believe there are any progressions in a Martz offense. I think the ball is supposed to go where he says to put it.I would still think that a QB would go through his progressions. I can understand not changing the play form run to pass or pass to run......but if he has 3 wr and a RB running routes I would think he could check down from his #1 option.That's because there is nothing to scan. When Martz calls a play, that is the play and there are no "reads" for a QB, and the QB has no authority to change the play. If the playcall is a run, the play remains a run even if the defense puts 11 guys in the box. If the playcall is a slant to McDonald, the play is a slant to McDonald even if Calvin Johnson has no defender in his zip code. I read a long article in PFW sometime earlier this season that explained it. What Martz calls is the only thing players are allowed to execute, good or bad.Never once did he scan the field. Martz/Kitna is embarrassingly bad.
So basically Martz is an idiot. How long is that idiot going to be allowed to live off of 3 future HOF'ers in Faulk, Holt and Bruce?BigJim® said:"Progressions"? Detroit fans are free to chime in here if I misread something in PFW, but I do not believe there are any progressions in a Martz offense. I think the ball is supposed to go where he says to put it.
That's what I was thinking when I read the article in PFW. OTOH he does use pre-snap motion/sets which are aimed at getting the defenders where he wants them, which should help the success of the play he is calling. I too found his prior success very surprising after reading that article.So basically Martz is an idiot. How long is that idiot going to be allowed to live off of 3 future HOF'ers in Faulk, Holt and Bruce?BigJim® said:"Progressions"? Detroit fans are free to chime in here if I misread something in PFW, but I do not believe there are any progressions in a Martz offense. I think the ball is supposed to go where he says to put it.
Of course there are progressions. You don't throw it to guys if they're quadruple covered.BigJim® said:"Progressions"? Detroit fans are free to chime in here if I misread something in PFW, but I do not believe there are any progressions in a Martz offense. I think the ball is supposed to go where he says to put it.I would still think that a QB would go through his progressions. I can understand not changing the play form run to pass or pass to run......but if he has 3 wr and a RB running routes I would think he could check down from his #1 option.That's because there is nothing to scan. When Martz calls a play, that is the play and there are no "reads" for a QB, and the QB has no authority to change the play. If the playcall is a run, the play remains a run even if the defense puts 11 guys in the box. If the playcall is a slant to McDonald, the play is a slant to McDonald even if Calvin Johnson has no defender in his zip code. I read a long article in PFW sometime earlier this season that explained it. What Martz calls is the only thing players are allowed to execute, good or bad.Never once did he scan the field. Martz/Kitna is embarrassingly bad.
Correct... he didn't actually see his reps on the field increase until Roy Williams went out. When Martz took the job as OC, I thought there might eventually be a problem with his "ego" and wanting to be THE coach. It sure don't seem like he and Rod are on the same page. ESPN is reporting Roy Williams is out for the season nowI was at the game yesterday and was suprised how often he is on the sideline. He only will play or 2 plays and then heads to the side line. Then again, Detroit was only getting 3 plays per drive most of the second half.
I'm glad I drank the ADP rookie kool-aid!!!!!!!He's a Rookie.some people clearly drank a little too much Kool-aid this offseason.
Kinda except Favre is good and Kitna is just a stooge for Martz. He has no ability to improvise. He just throws where Martz says to regardless of the coverage.Am I the only one that see's Johnsons situation similar to that of Greg Jennings last year. 1) - Really good to start the year2) - Gets injured3) - Is a shadow of his early season self for the rest of the year
He's a Rookie.some people clearly drank a little too much Kool-aid this offseason.
I drafted Jennings this year based on his performance when healthy last year and his apparent rapport with Favre. The only reason I would draft CJ2 is because of his size and athleticism and not for what he has done on the field this year. Of course, if he blows up for the rest of the year I will have another reason to draft him.Kinda except Favre is good and Kitna is just a stooge for Martz. He has no ability to improvise. He just throws where Martz says to regardless of the coverage.Am I the only one that see's Johnsons situation similar to that of Greg Jennings last year. 1) - Really good to start the year2) - Gets injured3) - Is a shadow of his early season self for the rest of the year
So you are saying that there is one target on each play and everyone else is a decoy? I just don't buy that."Progressions"? Detroit fans are free to chime in here if I misread something in PFW, but I do not believe there are any progressions in a Martz offense. I think the ball is supposed to go where he says to put it.I would still think that a QB would go through his progressions. I can understand not changing the play form run to pass or pass to run......but if he has 3 wr and a RB running routes I would think he could check down from his #1 option.That's because there is nothing to scan. When Martz calls a play, that is the play and there are no "reads" for a QB, and the QB has no authority to change the play. If the playcall is a run, the play remains a run even if the defense puts 11 guys in the box. If the playcall is a slant to McDonald, the play is a slant to McDonald even if Calvin Johnson has no defender in his zip code. I read a long article in PFW sometime earlier this season that explained it. What Martz calls is the only thing players are allowed to execute, good or bad.Never once did he scan the field. Martz/Kitna is embarrassingly bad.
Have you watched many Lions games this year?So you are saying that there is one target on each play and everyone else is a decoy? I just don't buy that."Progressions"? Detroit fans are free to chime in here if I misread something in PFW, but I do not believe there are any progressions in a Martz offense. I think the ball is supposed to go where he says to put it.I would still think that a QB would go through his progressions. I can understand not changing the play form run to pass or pass to run......but if he has 3 wr and a RB running routes I would think he could check down from his #1 option.That's because there is nothing to scan. When Martz calls a play, that is the play and there are no "reads" for a QB, and the QB has no authority to change the play. If the playcall is a run, the play remains a run even if the defense puts 11 guys in the box. If the playcall is a slant to McDonald, the play is a slant to McDonald even if Calvin Johnson has no defender in his zip code. I read a long article in PFW sometime earlier this season that explained it. What Martz calls is the only thing players are allowed to execute, good or bad.Never once did he scan the field. Martz/Kitna is embarrassingly bad.
The only thing that could help Jones is Martz stepping down today, right now, immediately. Jones has produced for the most part when given the opportunity, ie.. 15+ carries.Will Williams being out help Johnson and Jones (both of whom I own)?
I didn't see all the game, but I saw 2 of his catches in the first half. One was basically a slant where he made a diving catch that went for 7 or 8 yards. The other catch I saw was a Hail Mary at the end of the first half. It went for 49 yards and he came down with the ball in traffic inside the one yard line. Had he have scored it would have inflated his numbers quite a bit. From what I saw of the game in the second half, Furrey seemed to be more involved.updated? Last week was a bust but yesterday hit 100yds - didnt see the game - was it garbage time? will have to make a decision to sign him as a #2/3 WR for next year - what was once a no brainer now is not!
Kitna completed nine passes. That's what happened.And Martz leaving would hardly help a WR.Ay info on yesterday - 2 catches then MIAI still think he will be good but not signing him to be my #2 at current price - hopefully he will fall and may actually be a bargain next year....without Martz!
Kitna completed nine passes. That's what happened.And Martz leaving would hardly help a WR.Ay info on yesterday - 2 catches then MIAI still think he will be good but not signing him to be my #2 at current price - hopefully he will fall and may actually be a bargain next year....without Martz!
If they replace Martz, it will be with a much more conservative coordinator who's in line with Marinelli's style. If they do that, nine completions will be the norm.Kitna completed nine passes. That's what happened.And Martz leaving would hardly help a WR.Ay info on yesterday - 2 catches then MIAI still think he will be good but not signing him to be my #2 at current price - hopefully he will fall and may actually be a bargain next year....without Martz!Roy Williams & Shawn McDonald both have stated that it took them a few years to really understand Martz's O. Maybe Calvin would benafit from a simpler O in the short term.
That D is so bad, Detroit would still need to score 30 a game to get the W.If they replace Martz, it will be with a much more conservative coordinator who's in line with Marinelli's style. If they do that, nine completions will be the norm.Kitna completed nine passes. That's what happened.And Martz leaving would hardly help a WR.Ay info on yesterday - 2 catches then MIAI still think he will be good but not signing him to be my #2 at current price - hopefully he will fall and may actually be a bargain next year....without Martz!Roy Williams & Shawn McDonald both have stated that it took them a few years to really understand Martz's O. Maybe Calvin would benafit from a simpler O in the short term.
Just seems that Martz spread the ball around and never really focused on getting the ball to CJ - they spent a top pick and a ton of dough for the guy - not quite sure why they didn't use him as a weapon. I didn't see a lot of Lions games so fill me in - did he not get open? have the drops? ignored? tough to count on CJ for next year based on this years work which may be a good thing - get him for a cheaper price next year.If they replace Martz, it will be with a much more conservative coordinator who's in line with Marinelli's style. If they do that, nine completions will be the norm.Kitna completed nine passes. That's what happened.And Martz leaving would hardly help a WR.Ay info on yesterday - 2 catches then MIAI still think he will be good but not signing him to be my #2 at current price - hopefully he will fall and may actually be a bargain next year....without Martz!Roy Williams & Shawn McDonald both have stated that it took them a few years to really understand Martz's O. Maybe Calvin would benafit from a simpler O in the short term.
Here is a list of reasons, some his fault, some not, not necessarily in order:1. He held out and missed most of camp, signing just before the first preseason game. That was huge for any rookie and doubly huge for a rookie WR trying to learn the highly complex Mike Martz offense. He was behind the 8 ball from the start, and that hurt him a lot more than people realized. 2. The offense was very inconsistent from game to game and never had a flow. That affected the entire offense. The play calling was a joke more often than not. Your playmakers should be the focal point in the offense, not decoys, like they appeared to be here. 3. The biggest single reason was his back injury, which cost him to miss a game, most of 2 others and limited his snaps in several more. Worse, he missed a lot of practice time. That was the biggest single thing that hurt his development. 4. He was not consistent, like most rookies, sometimes losing focus, especially early in games, and he also had some drops. A lot of this is because of #1 and #3. When players can't practice, they aren't always sharp, especially a rookie. 5. They never featured him as much as many thought they should have. He is so physically gifted it is insane to not try and get the ball in his hands. Where on earth are the fades and high throws in the end zone? It would be automatic to throw him a jump ball in the end zone if he had man-to-man coverage. Nobody can get the ball other than him at the highest point.6. All of the above limited his snaps. I don't have the time, nor do I know where to see how many snaps he had, but I bet prior to the last couple of games that it was about *50%, give or take. Right now, he is at 44/702/4, plus a rushing TD. An average game will put him at 50/775/5, or thereabouts. If you factor in the time he missed related to his injury, and increased his snaps by 50% (getting him to 75% of total snaps) he would be at about 75/1100/8. *The 50% of total snaps I mentioned is an educated guess, it may be off a bit, but I think its pretty close. The bottom line to me is he looked like a rookie at times, had a few drops, lost focus, and didn't always play great. But when you consider the important time he missed in camp, the lost practice time due to injury, the inconsistent play calling, and most important, the low number of snaps he played compared to what most of us thought he would play, his numbers are a lot better looking than they appear. When you look at the numbers by themselves and don't look into why, you miss half the story. I still have no doubt whatsoever that Calvin will be a stud, and in fact I still think he will be the best WR in the league in a matter of 2-3 years.Just seems that Martz spread the ball around and never really focused on getting the ball to CJ - they spent a top pick and a ton of dough for the guy - not quite sure why they didn't use him as a weapon. I didn't see a lot of Lions games so fill me in - did he not get open? have the drops? ignored? tough to count on CJ for next year based on this years work which may be a good thing - get him for a cheaper price next year.If they replace Martz, it will be with a much more conservative coordinator who's in line with Marinelli's style. If they do that, nine completions will be the norm.Kitna completed nine passes. That's what happened.And Martz leaving would hardly help a WR.Ay info on yesterday - 2 catches then MIAI still think he will be good but not signing him to be my #2 at current price - hopefully he will fall and may actually be a bargain next year....without Martz!Roy Williams & Shawn McDonald both have stated that it took them a few years to really understand Martz's O. Maybe Calvin would benafit from a simpler O in the short term.