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Cams issues-himself or Shulas (1 Viewer)

Grimace59 said:
Reports, are the Owner is already planning on finding a new head coach this offseason, no matter on how Rivera does this season.
He should get a headstart on that...

 
I'm not going to pick the coaching argument. It's pretty bad. Rivera is a case of the Peter Principle, Shula is terrible. They'd fail regardless of who they are working with. In these roles anyway.

But any Cam defenders citing the supporting cast, stop it. Good QB's make the guys around him better, good athletes playing QB do not.

Coaching will rightfully fall on the sword this year, it'll buy sCam more time. It's going to take another 3+ years for the coach killer narrative to be written. It'll be a fun sequel to Michael Vick, unlike most lame sequels the plot line isn't the same, conclusions are going to bring it all together though.
I can't help but laugh at crap like this when pro bowlers like Steve Smith dropped more balls right in his hands than he caught. To an extent the mantra holds true in that they push the players around them to be better, get on them etc, but when it's brought up in the physical sense, it cracks me up. It's like you believe that if it were Peyton Manning throwing the exact same ball the WR would somehow catch it simply because it was Peyton Manning :lol:
What will be your excuse for him next year?
I've made no excuses for him this year :shrug: There's plenty that he isn't doing well and I've said such. Presenting the entire picture <> making excuses. This crap above is just that. It even further solidifies it in my mind given you completely ignoring it. You, apparently, are one that fell for they hype two years ago when he was putting up the ridiculous numbers. It's fine. A lot of people did. It's just foolish to expect it to continue. We all make mistakes...no need to come up with "arguments" like this to try and cover the mistake...just admit it and move on. Don't continue to expect things we all know he's not going to deliver.

 
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Da Guru said:
meanjoegreen said:
There are things Cam can improve on, but I think the main issue is with how the OC uses him. Shula isn't using Cam's strengths to run the offense.
I have watched him his whole career..what exactly are his strengths? I see a QB with a strong inconsistant arm... who stil gets confused by defenses on a regular basis. I do agree that NFL defenses seemd to be adapting more to the spread and read so that may hurt Newton.
It seems like, in a lot of cases, it is the play-callers giving up on these plays. If you have a running quarterback then you need to get him moving around to be effective. You need to make the secondary wonder if he is going to tuck and run. If you play to his weakness then you can't be surprised by poor results. I feel like the 49ers, Redskins, and Panthers have all done that to some degree this year.

It is particularly frustating watching this happen to Cam who is such a tank physically. Cam is much better at the passing and metnal parts of the game than I expected coming out of college. That would show up in the win and stat columns if he still was able to showcase his unique skills to improvise out of the pocket.

The Panthers have gotten worse on offense each year he has been in the league. They haven't been able to find a WR to step up for the aging Smith while the OL and RBs are older and banged up.

Rivera is not a NFL head coach. I struggle to see how Shula has a job anywhere. They will be fired soon and I would bet Cam does better...
Depends. I have no delusions that this gets better unless they get someone in here that understands how to use this kid. I have zero confidence that Richardson will allow Gettleman free reign to hire who he wants. There's this voice in the back of my mind that keeps telling me, none of this is going to change until someone else owns the team. By that time Cam will be gone.

Question for the general group though:

Can anyone think of a successful QB that had a terrible coach? Can anyone think of a successful coach that had a terrible QB? The two go hand in hand. If they aren't on the same page, it doesn't matter what either one does individually. You MIGHT get one guy to each of my questions. I thought this was obvious, but clearly it isn't.

 
I'm not going to pick the coaching argument. It's pretty bad. Rivera is a case of the Peter Principle, Shula is terrible. They'd fail regardless of who they are working with. In these roles anyway.

But any Cam defenders citing the supporting cast, stop it. Good QB's make the guys around him better, good athletes playing QB do not.

Coaching will rightfully fall on the sword this year, it'll buy sCam more time. It's going to take another 3+ years for the coach killer narrative to be written. It'll be a fun sequel to Michael Vick, unlike most lame sequels the plot line isn't the same, conclusions are going to bring it all together though.
I can't help but laugh at crap like this when pro bowlers like Steve Smith dropped more balls right in his hands than he caught. To an extent the mantra holds true in that they push the players around them to be better, get on them etc, but when it's brought up in the physical sense, it cracks me up. It's like you believe that if it were Peyton Manning throwing the exact same ball the WR would somehow catch it simply because it was Peyton Manning :lol:
What will be your excuse for him next year?
I've made no excuses for him this year :shrug: There's plenty that he isn't doing well and I've said such. Presenting the entire picture <> making excuses. This crap above is just that. It even further solidifies it in my mind given you completely ignoring it. You, apparently, are one that fell for they hype two years ago when he was putting up the ridiculous numbers. It's fine. A lot of people did. It's just foolish to expect it to continue. We all make mistakes...no need to come up with "arguments" like this to try and cover the mistake...just admit it and move on. Don't continue to expect things we all know he's not going to deliver.
uhh, no.
 
MAC_32 said:
I'm not going to pick the coaching argument. It's pretty bad. Rivera is a case of the Peter Principle, Shula is terrible. They'd fail regardless of who they are working with. In these roles anyway.

But any Cam defenders citing the supporting cast, stop it. Good QB's make the guys around him better, good athletes playing QB do not.

Coaching will rightfully fall on the sword this year, it'll buy sCam more time. It's going to take another 3+ years for the coach killer narrative to be written. It'll be a fun sequel to Michael Vick, unlike most lame sequels the plot line isn't the same, conclusions are going to bring it all together though.
I can't help but laugh at crap like this when pro bowlers like Steve Smith dropped more balls right in his hands than he caught. To an extent the mantra holds true in that they push the players around them to be better, get on them etc, but when it's brought up in the physical sense, it cracks me up. It's like you believe that if it were Peyton Manning throwing the exact same ball the WR would somehow catch it simply because it was Peyton Manning :lol:
What will be your excuse for him next year?
I've made no excuses for him this year :shrug: There's plenty that he isn't doing well and I've said such. Presenting the entire picture <> making excuses. This crap above is just that. It even further solidifies it in my mind given you completely ignoring it. You, apparently, are one that fell for they hype two years ago when he was putting up the ridiculous numbers. It's fine. A lot of people did. It's just foolish to expect it to continue. We all make mistakes...no need to come up with "arguments" like this to try and cover the mistake...just admit it and move on. Don't continue to expect things we all know he's not going to deliver.
uhh, no.
So just willful ignorance then? Ok...congrats?? :oldunsure:

 
I'll agree with this... I'll give Cam another year or two before I consider him a "NFL Bust" not so much fantasy bust. Even Tim Tebow was a Top 10 fantasy QB. But by actual NFL standards, Cam isn't that great of a QB. A few talent scouts have already said that if the draft were today with him and Pryor in the same class they'd all take Pryor over Cam. As Pryor has similar athletic upside but Pryor has a better natural throwing motion than Cam. Which is something that really can't be taught at the NFL level.
Link, please.

 
I'll agree with this... I'll give Cam another year or two before I consider him a "NFL Bust" not so much fantasy bust. Even Tim Tebow was a Top 10 fantasy QB. But by actual NFL standards, Cam isn't that great of a QB. A few talent scouts have already said that if the draft were today with him and Pryor in the same class they'd all take Pryor over Cam. As Pryor has similar athletic upside but Pryor has a better natural throwing motion than Cam. Which is something that really can't be taught at the NFL level.
Link, please.
John Middlekauff is one, follow him on twitter, he made these posts over the weekend. Generated discussion with others that agreed. Some scouts, some not, some that write for FBG or other sites.

 
Are you riding him out in redraft and benching him? Dropping him? Just wondering. I thought I had a good deal when I grabbed him in the 5th round.

 
Personally, I definitely won't drop him only because I know he will get picked up immediately and I hate to give away someone that will immediately get picked up. There are enough good QBs and his performance has been bad enough that his trade value seems to be miniscule though.

I actually looked to see if Pryor was available and contemplated playing matchups, but he was already gone in my league. I'm personally just holding out hope that their offense has been bad enough that the scheme will change. Gonna keep riding it out I guess, but I don't feel good about it.

 
There are things Cam can improve on, but I think the main issue is with how the OC uses him. Shula isn't using Cam's strengths to run the offense.
I have watched him his whole career..what exactly are his strengths? I see a QB with a strong inconsistant arm... who stil gets confused by defenses on a regular basis. I do agree that NFL defenses seemd to be adapting more to the spread and read so that may hurt Newton.
It seems like, in a lot of cases, it is the play-callers giving up on these plays. If you have a running quarterback then you need to get him moving around to be effective. You need to make the secondary wonder if he is going to tuck and run. If you play to his weakness then you can't be surprised by poor results. I feel like the 49ers, Redskins, and Panthers have all done that to some degree this year.

It is particularly frustating watching this happen to Cam who is such a tank physically. Cam is much better at the passing and metnal parts of the game than I expected coming out of college. That would show up in the win and stat columns if he still was able to showcase his unique skills to improvise out of the pocket.

The Panthers have gotten worse on offense each year he has been in the league. They haven't been able to find a WR to step up for the aging Smith while the OL and RBs are older and banged up.

Rivera is not a NFL head coach. I struggle to see how Shula has a job anywhere. They will be fired soon and I would bet Cam does better...
Depends. I have no delusions that this gets better unless they get someone in here that understands how to use this kid. I have zero confidence that Richardson will allow Gettleman free reign to hire who he wants. There's this voice in the back of my mind that keeps telling me, none of this is going to change until someone else owns the team. By that time Cam will be gone.

Question for the general group though:

Can anyone think of a successful QB that had a terrible coach? Can anyone think of a successful coach that had a terrible QB? The two go hand in hand. If they aren't on the same page, it doesn't matter what either one does individually. You MIGHT get one guy to each of my questions. I thought this was obvious, but clearly it isn't.
In 1995, June Jones and Jeff George led the Falcons to a 9-7 record while George lit up the NFL for 4143/24/11. This happened despite both parties being absolute garbage. :thumbup:

(I know it was 1995, and I know that means there was stiff competition from Scott Mitchell and Wayne Fontes, among others.)

 
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There are things Cam can improve on, but I think the main issue is with how the OC uses him. Shula isn't using Cam's strengths to run the offense.
I have watched him his whole career..what exactly are his strengths? I see a QB with a strong inconsistant arm... who stil gets confused by defenses on a regular basis. I do agree that NFL defenses seemd to be adapting more to the spread and read so that may hurt Newton.
It seems like, in a lot of cases, it is the play-callers giving up on these plays. If you have a running quarterback then you need to get him moving around to be effective. You need to make the secondary wonder if he is going to tuck and run. If you play to his weakness then you can't be surprised by poor results. I feel like the 49ers, Redskins, and Panthers have all done that to some degree this year.

It is particularly frustating watching this happen to Cam who is such a tank physically. Cam is much better at the passing and metnal parts of the game than I expected coming out of college. That would show up in the win and stat columns if he still was able to showcase his unique skills to improvise out of the pocket.

The Panthers have gotten worse on offense each year he has been in the league. They haven't been able to find a WR to step up for the aging Smith while the OL and RBs are older and banged up.

Rivera is not a NFL head coach. I struggle to see how Shula has a job anywhere. They will be fired soon and I would bet Cam does better...
Depends. I have no delusions that this gets better unless they get someone in here that understands how to use this kid. I have zero confidence that Richardson will allow Gettleman free reign to hire who he wants. There's this voice in the back of my mind that keeps telling me, none of this is going to change until someone else owns the team. By that time Cam will be gone.

Question for the general group though:

Can anyone think of a successful QB that had a terrible coach? Can anyone think of a successful coach that had a terrible QB? The two go hand in hand. If they aren't on the same page, it doesn't matter what either one does individually. You MIGHT get one guy to each of my questions. I thought this was obvious, but clearly it isn't.
In 1995, June Jones and Jeff George led the Falcons to a 9-7 record while George lit up the NFL for 4143/24/11. This happened despite both parties being absolute garbage. :thumbup:

(I know it was 1995, and I know that means there was stiff competition from Scott Mitchell and Wayne Fontes, among others.)
:goodposting: Thanks for proving my point.

 

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