Can Norv and Wade for someone like Cowher? (1 Viewer)

[Black]

Here's some food for thought for folks wanting to dump Norv and Wade.

Norv and Wade have excellent winning percentages and are getting their teams to the playoffs, which means most years they have a chance to win a SuperBowl. That's important in a time of parity. You need to have more chances to improve your odds of punching through. Many teams don't have the luxury of frequent visits to the playoffs. Many teams don't have even (1) Superbowl Win.

I was thinking that in 15 years, Bill Cowher, who is considered by most to be extremely successful, has only two (2) AFC Championships and (1) Superbowl. Their winning percentages are very similar. These are all successful coaches.

Cowher got his teams to the playoffs most years, but 'couldn't get them over the hump' for 13 of the 15 years he coached. He even had some losing and 500 seasons. All it shows is that it takes time and patience (and sometimes time to start over and rebuild) to build champions.

I know Wade and Norv have history before their current teams, but am only studying their current situations.

Data from http://www.pro-football-reference.com/coaches

*********************************************************************

Cowher coaching results

15 years: 240 games.

Reg Season 149-90-1, Winning % .623

Playoffs: 21 total games, Record 12-9, Playoff Winning % .571.

Division Championships: 9

Conference Championships: 2

AFC Championship games appearances: 6

Super Bowl Wins: 1

Year Age W L T W-L% Playoff record1992 35 11 5 0 .688; 0 -1 1993 36 9 7 0 .563; 0 -1 1994 37 12 4 0 .750; 1 -1 1995 38 11 5 0 .688; 2 -1 AFC Champions1996 39 10 6 0 .625; 1 -1 1997 40 11 5 0 .688; 1 -1 1998 41 7 9 0 .438 1999 42 6 10 0 .375 2000 43 9 7 0 .563 2001 44 13 3 0 .813; 1 -1 2002 45 10 5 1 .667; 1 -1 2003 46 6 10 0 .375 2004 47 15 1 0 .938; 1 -1 2005 48 11 5 0 .688; 4 -0 Super Bowl Champions2006 49 8 8 0 .500******************************************************************Wade with Cowboys:

Reg Season: 33-15, .688

Playoffs: 1-2, .333

Year Age W L T W-L% Playoff record 2007 60 13 3 0 .813 0-1 2008 61 9 7 0 .563 2009 62 11 5 0 .688 1-1******************************************************************Norv with the Chargers

Reg Season: 32 -16, .667

Playoffs: 3 -3, .500

Year	 Age  W 	L 	T 	W-L%		   Playoff record2007	 55	 11	 5	   0	  .688			2 -1		  2008 	56 	8 	 8 	0 	.500 			 	1 -1	2009 	57 	13 	3 	0 	.813 			 	0 -1

Edited to update verbage stating only 1 AFC Conf Championship for Cowher (he had 2 including SB year) and adding 6 AFC Championship game appearances.

 

[Godsbrother]

Not to nitpick but Cowher won 2 AFC Championships.

Cowher's biggest problem was his lack of a good QB.

 

[C & C]

Not to nitpick but Cowher won 2 AFC Championships...

And made it to 6 AFC Championship games. To me, that's where the difference lies.

 

[trader jake]

If the Cowboys or Chargers could land Cowher they should do so in a heartbeat. He would bring something neither of the teams current headmen has - instant credibility as a head coach. However, it's doubtful Cowher would take either job without receiving crazy amounts of cash because A.J. Smith runs the show in San Diego and Jerry Jones is the puppetmaster in Dallas.

 

[Godsbrother]

Not to nitpick but Cowher won 2 AFC Championships...

And made it to 6 AFC Championship games. To me, that's where the difference lies.

Cowher had great defenses & running games. Up until Roethlisberger his QBs sucked.

 

[CalBear]

Here's some food for thought for folks wanting to dump Norv and Wade.

Norv and Wade have excellent winning percentages and are getting their teams to the playoffs, which means most years they have a chance to win a SuperBowl. That's important in a time of parity. You need to have more chances to improve your odds of punching through. Many teams don't have the luxury of frequent visits to the playoffs. Many teams don't have even (1) Superbowl Win.

Norv doesn't have an excellent winning percentage; he is below .500 for his career, and took over a 14-2 team that hasn't come close to that level again. There are probably 20 head coaches in the league, and another 30-40 coordinators, who would have done a better job in San Diego.

 

[Ghost Rider]

Norv doesn't have an excellent winning percentage; he is below .500 for his career, and took over a 14-2 team that hasn't come close to that level again. There are probably 20 head coaches in the league, and another 30-40 coordinators, who would have done a better job in San Diego.

Totally agree.

 

[Chargers86]

Here's some food for thought for folks wanting to dump Norv and Wade.

Norv and Wade have excellent winning percentages and are getting their teams to the playoffs, which means most years they have a chance to win a SuperBowl. That's important in a time of parity. You need to have more chances to improve your odds of punching through. Many teams don't have the luxury of frequent visits to the playoffs. Many teams don't have even (1) Superbowl Win.

Norv doesn't have an excellent winning percentage; he is below .500 for his career, and took over a 14-2 team that hasn't come close to that level again. There are probably 20 head coaches in the league, and another 30-40 coordinators, who would have done a better job in San Diego.

13-3 isn't close to 14-2? Doing that with zero running game is pretty impressive if you ask me.

 

[CalBear]

13-3 isn't close to 14-2? Doing that with zero running game is pretty impressive if you ask me.

The 2006 Chargers scored 492 points and allowed 303; this year they scored 454 and allowed 320. That's not particularly close. This year's results are also padded by playing in a division with no other good team, and two of the worst teams in the league; in 2006 both the Chiefs and Broncos were above .500 and competitive. And don't you think the head coach might have some influence on the running game? Norv took over a team that averaged 4.9 yards per carry and scored 32 rushing TDs and sent it into an immediate decline (in 2007 they averaged 4.2 ypc with 19 TD), and now has it among the worst in the league at 3.3 yards per carry. Why should he get a pass on that performance?

 

[zDragon]

I would like the Cowboys to keep Wade until they find someone better. The cowboys could do a lot worse the Phillips. With that being said if we get the opportunity to get a coach like Cowher I think we should take it.

 

[beavers]

Not to nitpick but Cowher won 2 AFC Championships...

And made it to 6 AFC Championship games. To me, that's where the difference lies.

Cowher had great defenses & running games. Up until Roethlisberger his QBs sucked.

Cowher believed in Stewart way too long.

 

[Captain Placeholder]

13-3 isn't close to 14-2? Doing that with zero running game is pretty impressive if you ask me.

The 2006 Chargers scored 492 points and allowed 303; this year they scored 454 and allowed 320. That's not particularly close. This year's results are also padded by playing in a division with no other good team, and two of the worst teams in the league; in 2006 both the Chiefs and Broncos were above .500 and competitive. And don't you think the head coach might have some influence on the running game? Norv took over a team that averaged 4.9 yards per carry and scored 32 rushing TDs and sent it into an immediate decline (in 2007 they averaged 4.2 ypc with 19 TD), and now has it among the worst in the league at 3.3 yards per carry. Why should he get a pass on that performance?

So you expected the Chargers to repeat their 2006 performance? That wasn't an outlier to you?

 

[CalBear]

13-3 isn't close to 14-2? Doing that with zero running game is pretty impressive if you ask me.

The 2006 Chargers scored 492 points and allowed 303; this year they scored 454 and allowed 320. That's not particularly close. This year's results are also padded by playing in a division with no other good team, and two of the worst teams in the league; in 2006 both the Chiefs and Broncos were above .500 and competitive. And don't you think the head coach might have some influence on the running game? Norv took over a team that averaged 4.9 yards per carry and scored 32 rushing TDs and sent it into an immediate decline (in 2007 they averaged 4.2 ypc with 19 TD), and now has it among the worst in the league at 3.3 yards per carry. Why should he get a pass on that performance?

So you expected the Chargers to repeat their 2006 performance? That wasn't an outlier to you?

They averaged 4.6, 5.1, 4.2, 4.5, and 4.9 ypc under Schottenheimer. I think it's safe to say that they wouldn't have gone from 4.9 to 4.2, 4.1, 3.3 if Schottenheimer had stayed.

 

[Banger]

13-3 isn't close to 14-2? Doing that with zero running game is pretty impressive if you ask me.

The 2006 Chargers scored 492 points and allowed 303; this year they scored 454 and allowed 320. That's not particularly close. This year's results are also padded by playing in a division with no other good team, and two of the worst teams in the league; in 2006 both the Chiefs and Broncos were above .500 and competitive. And don't you think the head coach might have some influence on the running game? Norv took over a team that averaged 4.9 yards per carry and scored 32 rushing TDs and sent it into an immediate decline (in 2007 they averaged 4.2 ypc with 19 TD), and now has it among the worst in the league at 3.3 yards per carry. Why should he get a pass on that performance?

So you expected the Chargers to repeat their 2006 performance? That wasn't an outlier to you?

They averaged 4.6, 5.1, 4.2, 4.5, and 4.9 ypc under Schottenheimer. I think it's safe to say that they wouldn't have gone from 4.9 to 4.2, 4.1, 3.3 if Schottenheimer had stayed.

I don't know about that. Would he have had the power to keep Turner? No. Could he have stopped LT from aging? No. Could he have helped the horrbile run blocking? Maybe. I'm by no means a Turner fan but I think its pretty simplistic to draw results from ypc when there are many factors that contribute to it, many which are outside of what a coach can do.

 

[CalBear]

I don't know about that. Would he have had the power to keep Turner? No. Could he have stopped LT from aging? No. Could he have helped the horrbile run blocking? Maybe. I'm by no means a Turner fan but I think its pretty simplistic to draw results from ypc when there are many factors that contribute to it, many which are outside of what a coach can do.

Frankly, I think LT has been a victim of bad coaching. I think he could still be a lot more effective than he has been, but he's not getting good guidance on how to adjust his style.And it's not like mediocre performance is something new to Turner-coached teams; in 12 years as a head coach, he's had a total of 4 years where his teams were in the top 10 in rushing (never in the top 5). 6/12 in the top 10 in passing (top 5 twice), 1/12 in the top 10 in defense. Mediocre at best.Compare that to Cowher: 13 of 15 years, his teams were in the top 10 in rushing (8/15 in the top 5, #1 three times). 12/15 were top 10 in defense (7/15 in the top 5, #1 twice). 3/15 were top 10 in passing. It is not coincidental that Norv's winning percentage is below .500, and Cowher's is .623; Norv is a mediocre-to-bad coach, while Cowher is a good coach.

 

[Da Guru]

Cowher is over rated as a coach.

 

[Tau837]

I don't know about that. Would he have had the power to keep Turner? No. Could he have stopped LT from aging? No. Could he have helped the horrbile run blocking? Maybe. I'm by no means a Turner fan but I think its pretty simplistic to draw results from ypc when there are many factors that contribute to it, many which are outside of what a coach can do.

Frankly, I think LT has been a victim of bad coaching. I think he could still be a lot more effective than he has been, but he's not getting good guidance on how to adjust his style.And it's not like mediocre performance is something new to Turner-coached teams; in 12 years as a head coach, he's had a total of 4 years where his teams were in the top 10 in rushing (never in the top 5). 6/12 in the top 10 in passing (top 5 twice), 1/12 in the top 10 in defense. Mediocre at best.Compare that to Cowher: 13 of 15 years, his teams were in the top 10 in rushing (8/15 in the top 5, #1 three times). 12/15 were top 10 in defense (7/15 in the top 5, #1 twice). 3/15 were top 10 in passing. It is not coincidental that Norv's winning percentage is below .500, and Cowher's is .623; Norv is a mediocre-to-bad coach, while Cowher is a good coach.

Just out of curiosity, what is your issue with Norv? Did he screw over Cal at some point in his career? You post negatively about Norv about 10 times as many times as you post negatively about other coaches.

 

[CalBear]

Just out of curiosity, what is your issue with Norv? Did he screw over Cal at some point in his career? You post negatively about Norv about 10 times as many times as you post negatively about other coaches.

Most fans with bad coaches know it; there's no need to argue with people about **** Jauron. Chargers fans seem to think he's better than Schottenheimer, which is so ridiculous that it demands a response.

 

[dickey moe]

Wade is fat. Cowboys need new coach.

 

[Godsbrother]

Cowher is over rated as a coach.

Perhaps but while he was a head coach no other team in the NFL won as many games as his team.Of the top 20 winningest coaches in NFL history (of which he is #13), he is ranked 6th in winning percentage. That is pretty good.

 

[by_the_sea_wannabe]

The Steelers were not the Steelers when Cowher took over. He took over a franchise that had several seasons of mediocrity and turned it into a perennial winner.

 

[Tau837]

Cowher is over rated as a coach.

Perhaps but while he was a head coach no other team in the NFL won as many games as his team.Of the top 20 winningest coaches in NFL history (of which he is #13), he is ranked 6th in winning percentage. That is pretty good.

I love Cowher. But I think a big factor in that all time winning percentage is the fact that he coached for arguably the #1 organization in NFL history, which put him in position to win more often than most coaches. He certainly still had to get it done, and he deserves praise, but I certainly think there are more than 5 other coaches in NFL history who could have matched or exceeded Cowher's winning percentage in the same situation.

 

[Godsbrother]

Cowher is over rated as a coach.

Perhaps but while he was a head coach no other team in the NFL won as many games as his team.Of the top 20 winningest coaches in NFL history (of which he is #13), he is ranked 6th in winning percentage. That is pretty good.

I love Cowher. But I think a big factor in that all time winning percentage is the fact that he coached for arguably the #1 organization in NFL history, which put him in position to win more often than most coaches. He certainly still had to get it done, and he deserves praise, but I certainly think there are more than 5 other coaches in NFL history who could have matched or exceeded Cowher's winning percentage in the same situation.

Possibly, we'll never know. What we do know is what happened: Cowher took a Steelers team that had only made the playoffs one time in the 7 years before his arrival and proceeded to make the playoffs in his first 6 seasons. He was directly responsible for that turnaround.

 

[Tau837]

Cowher is over rated as a coach.

Perhaps but while he was a head coach no other team in the NFL won as many games as his team.Of the top 20 winningest coaches in NFL history (of which he is #13), he is ranked 6th in winning percentage. That is pretty good.

I love Cowher. But I think a big factor in that all time winning percentage is the fact that he coached for arguably the #1 organization in NFL history, which put him in position to win more often than most coaches. He certainly still had to get it done, and he deserves praise, but I certainly think there are more than 5 other coaches in NFL history who could have matched or exceeded Cowher's winning percentage in the same situation.

Possibly, we'll never know. What we do know is what happened: Cowher took a Steelers team that had only made the playoffs one time in the 7 years before his arrival and proceeded to make the playoffs in his first 6 seasons. He was directly responsible for that turnaround.

To be clear, I'm not attempting to knock Cowher. I like him, and he is a State alum, after all. When you say he was directly responsible for the turnaround, how much responsibility did he have for personnel decisions (draft, free agents, letting players walk, etc.)? My impression is that a big reason the Steelers have been really good over the past 15-20 years is because they have done such a great job with their personnel in addition to having had consistently good to great coaching.

 

[Drunken Cowboy]

Phillips is a better coach than given credit for. Turner is awful. He was given a 14-2 team and made it worse, as he has done every other time somebody hired him as HC.

Neither is in Cowher's league.

 

[Tau837]

Phillips is a better coach than given credit for. Turner is awful. He was given a 14-2 team and made it worse, as he has done every other time somebody hired him as HC.Neither is in Cowher's league.

I agree that Cowher is better than Turner and Phillips, but you are off base on Turner.Turner didn't make the Raiders worse. They were arguably worse the season before Turner became head coach, and they have been arguably worse every season since he left.Same deal with the Redskins... Turner didn't make them worse. They were worse the season before Turner became head coach, and in the 9 seasons since he left, they have only had 2 seasons that are arguably as good as or better than Turner's final 2 seasons.Turner may not be a great coach, but he is unfairly criticized for his coaching performance/accomplishments.

 

[Captain Placeholder]

Phillips is a better coach than given credit for. Turner is awful. He was given a 14-2 team and made it worse, as he has done every other time somebody hired him as HC.Neither is in Cowher's league.

I agree that Cowher is better than Turner and Phillips, but you are off base on Turner.Turner didn't make the Raiders worse. They were arguably worse the season before Turner became head coach, and they have been arguably worse every season since he left.Same deal with the Redskins... Turner didn't make them worse. They were worse the season before Turner became head coach, and in the 9 seasons since he left, they have only had 2 seasons that are arguably as good as or better than Turner's final 2 seasons.Turner may not be a great coach, but he is unfairly criticized for his coaching performance/accomplishments.

Despite getting about three more years than he deserved with the 'Skins due to Jack Kent Cooke's death the the subsequent turmoil in the team's ownership, Turner still managed to finish 10 games below .500 in his stint at Washington. His teams always were undisciplined and inevitably found ways to lose. So desperate was he to get another coaching gig after the Washington abortion that he accepted the worst job in the NFL - Raiders head coach - only to promptly wash out of there after his team was plagued by the same sorts of problems he had in DC. And then rinse and repeat in San Diego, this time with by far the best squad he's ever coached. Norv's like a corpse you've put in the drivers seat of a car with his hands taped to the wheel. The car may be going straight at the moment but it's not because it's expertly driven.

 

[Polar Dude]

His teams always were undisciplined and inevitably found ways to lose.

I feel like you just described pretty much every coach in the Chargers' history.

 

[Ghost Rider]

Norv's like a corpse you've put in the drivers seat of a car with his hands taped to the wheel. The car may be going straight at the moment but it's not because it's expertly driven.

Haha, that is so true!

His teams always were undisciplined and inevitably found ways to lose.

I feel like you just described pretty much every coach in the Chargers' history.