Can someone remind me... (1 Viewer)

[WeScoreMore]

Preseason projections clearly undervalued the NYG offense. I dont care who they have played so far, they have looked dominant.

Their passing attack has been dominant in EVERY game

You are telling me with an all-pro TE & RB, an upgraded/healthy line, a bull-dozer as a short yardage back, and Plaxico the Giants Offense wasnt getting any better this year?

David Carr

Chad Pennington

Kyle Boller

Brian Griese

Ben Roethlisberger

Patrick Ramsey

Kurt Warner

Drew Bledsoe

J.P. Losman

Eli Manning QB28

Chris Chambers

Lee Evans :X

Eric Moulds :X

Jimmy Smith

Plaxico Burress WR30

Tiki Barber RB12 (the #2 RB last year!)

 

[jwvdcw]

Preason projections clearly undervalued the NYG offense.

Thanks for telling us this now, as the Giants have just put up 27 1st half points. Really helpful I'd also like to let everyone know that preseason projections were a little low on C Williams, S Smith, and the SF passing game.

 

[WeScoreMore]

Preason projections clearly undervalued the NYG offense.

Thanks for telling us this now, as the Giants have just put up 27 1st half points. Really helpful

EVERY GAME. Their passing attack is top5

 

[Don Quixote]

What's the weather going to be like yesterday?Giants offense (with the exception of Tiki) was horrid last year. Their offense was a good sleeper pick. But can't tell for sure how much of a step the offense will take until the games start.

 

[WeScoreMore]

Giants offense (with the exception of Tiki) was horrid last year. Their offense was a good sleeper pick. But can't tell for sure how much of a step the offense will take until the games start.

sleeper?

You are telling me with an all-pro TE & RB, an upgraded/healthy line, a bull-dozer as a short yardage back, and Plaxico the Giants Offense wasnt getting any better this year?

 

[cracKer]

Presason projections clearly undervalued the NYG offense. I dont care who they have played so far, they have looked dominant...

Please point us to the preseason threads where you tell us how good the Giants offense will be.TIA

 

[my man otis]

Eli was terrible last year. No one could predict he'd be this much better this year than last. It took Palmer until the end of the season last year to be comfortable. Bengals have better weapons on O then the Giants, so why would one think Manning would play this well, in is 8th start?

 

[WeScoreMore]

Eli was terrible last year. No one could predict he'd be this much better this year than last. It took Palmer until the end of the season last year to be comfortable. Bengals have better weapons on O then the Giants, so why would one think Manning would play this well, in is 8th start?

Did you see Eli's schedule last season? He didnt have a CHANCESunday, 11/21 4:15 PM ET FOX FALCONS L 14-10

Sunday, 11/28 1:00 PM ET FOX EAGLES L 27-6

Sunday, 12/5 4:15 PM ET FOX at Redskins L 31-7

Sunday, 12/12 1:00 PM ET FOX at Ravens L 37-14

Saturday, 12/18 1:30 PM ET CBS STEELERS L 33-30

Sunday, 12/26 1:00 PM ET FOX at Bengals L 23-22

Sunday, 1/2 8:30 PM ET ESPN COWBOYS W 28-24

 

[my man otis]

Eli was terrible last year.  No one could predict he'd be this much better this year than last.  It took Palmer until the end of the season last year to be comfortable.  Bengals have better weapons on O then the Giants, so why would one think Manning would play this well, in is 8th start?

Did you see Eli's schedule last season. He didnt have a CHANCE

What's your point. So that would automatically make you think they'd have a top 5 O this year?

 

[Twisted]

Hi Miss Cleo

 

[WeScoreMore]

Eli was terrible last year. No one could predict he'd be this much better this year than last. It took Palmer until the end of the season last year to be comfortable. Bengals have better weapons on O then the Giants, so why would one think Manning would play this well, in is 8th start?

Did you see Eli's schedule last season. He didnt have a CHANCE

What's your point. So that would automatically make you think they'd have a top 5 O this year?

I wouldnt have Eli behind some of those QB's. You're telling me your cheatsheet had Eli behind those bums?

 

[Don Quixote]

sleeper?

Yes, sleeper. As in a team with a good chance of outperforming expectations based on favorable circumstances.

 

[Otis]

Presason projections clearly undervalued the NYG offense. I dont care who they have played so far, they have looked dominant...

Please point us to the preseason threads where you tell us how good the Giants offense will be.TIA

There is no :GREATPosting: smilie, so

 

[my man otis]

Eli was terrible last year.  No one could predict he'd be this much better this year than last.  It took Palmer until the end of the season last year to be comfortable.  Bengals have better weapons on O then the Giants, so why would one think Manning would play this well, in is 8th start?

Did you see Eli's schedule last season. He didnt have a CHANCE

What's your point. So that would automatically make you think they'd have a top 5 O this year?

I wouldnt have Eli behind some of those QB's. You're telling me your cheatsheet had Eli behind those bums?

You're a genius. Go start your own FF website.

 

[WeScoreMore]

sleeper?

Yes, sleeper. As in a team with a good chance of outperforming expectations based on favorable circumstances.

How did any of these QB's team's improve the talent around them during the offseason like the Giants did?

David Carr

Chad Pennington

Kyle Boller

Brian Griese

Ben Roethlisberger

Patrick Ramsey

Kurt Warner

Drew Bledsoe

J.P. Losman

 

[AhrnCityPahnder]

Presason projections clearly undervalued the NYG offense. I dont care who they have played so far, they have looked dominant...

Please point us to the preseason threads where you tell us how good the Giants offense will be.TIA

 

[tommyGunZ]

Can someone remind me...why FBG grossly undervalued NYG offense?

Because FBG isn't perfect. They analyze the data better than most, but if you're looking for a website or magazine that will acurately predict exactly what will happen in the upcoming NFL season, you'll be looking for a long time.

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

Presason projections clearly undervalued the NYG offense. I dont care who they have played so far, they have looked dominant...

Please point us to the preseason threads where you tell us how good the Giants offense will be.TIA

tap

 

[WeScoreMore]

Presason projections clearly undervalued the NYG offense. I dont care who they have played so far, they have looked dominant...

Please point us to the preseason threads where you tell us how good the Giants offense will be.TIA

tap

Feel free to check my cheatsheet. I had Eli QB17 not top30qb

 

[my man otis]

Presason projections clearly undervalued the NYG offense. I dont care who they have played so far, they have looked dominant...

Please point us to the preseason threads where you tell us how good the Giants offense will be.TIA

tap

Feel free to check my cheatsheet. I had Eli QB17 not top30qb

So why isn't there http://www.wescoremoreFF.com/ for fantasy advice?

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

Presason projections clearly undervalued the NYG offense. I dont care who they have played so far, they have looked dominant...

Please point us to the preseason threads where you tell us how good the Giants offense will be.TIA

tap

Feel free to check my cheatsheet. I had Eli QB17 not top30qb

congrats.

 

[WeScoreMore]

Presason projections clearly undervalued the NYG offense. I dont care who they have played so far, they have looked dominant...

Please point us to the preseason threads where you tell us how good the Giants offense will be.TIA

tap

Feel free to check my cheatsheet. I had Eli QB17 not top30qb

So why isn't there http://www.wescoremoreFF.com/ for fantasy advice?

Dude relax. I have been lurking around these forums since '03. I support FBGs and appreciate all their work. I just dont understand how a team that revamped their squad with soo much talent could have their qb ranked 28th!!!!!!

 

[my man otis]

Presason projections clearly undervalued the NYG offense. I dont care who they have played so far, they have looked dominant...

Please point us to the preseason threads where you tell us how good the Giants offense will be.TIA

tap

Feel free to check my cheatsheet. I had Eli QB17 not top30qb

So why isn't there http://www.wescoremoreFF.com/ for fantasy advice?

Dude relax. I have been lurking around these forums since '03. I support FBGs and appreciate all their work. I just dont understand how a team that revamped their squad with soo much talent could have their qb ranked 28th!!!!!!

Relax as well - ranking someone 17th isn't calling him a world beater either.

 

[WeScoreMore]

Presason projections clearly undervalued the NYG offense. I dont care who they have played so far, they have looked dominant...

Please point us to the preseason threads where you tell us how good the Giants offense will be.TIA

tap

Feel free to check my cheatsheet. I had Eli QB17 not top30qb

So why isn't there http://www.wescoremoreFF.com/ for fantasy advice?

Dude relax. I have been lurking around these forums since '03. I support FBGs and appreciate all their work. I just dont understand how a team that revamped their squad with soo much talent could have their qb ranked 28th!!!!!!

Relax as well - ranking someone 17th isn't calling him a world beater either.

Do you not see the QB's and offense's ranked ahead of Eli. His name is "Manning". You are telling me he was going to be one of the worst 4 QB's in his next season? Eli- #1 pick coming off the toughest 7 game schedule possible

Kareem McKenzie - top10 T

Plaxico Burress - big target and threat

Brandon Jacobs - short yardage machine

Jeremy Shockey - all-pro

Tiki Barber - all-pro

All Disagree

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

from Pro Football Prospectus on Eli Manning:"Just a horrible rookie year. Look at the list of the most similar first-year QBs: Steve Walsh, Todd Marinovich, Billy Joe Tolliver, Ken Dorsey, Eric Zeier, Jim Everett, Quincy Carter, Craig Whelihan, and Koy Detmer. Those seasons weren't just similar, they were better: Every single one of those quarterbacks averaged more yards per attempt than Manning, and every single one except Tolliver had a higher completion percentage. Donovan McNabb had a miserable 4.4 yards per attempt as a rookie but at least he threw more TDs than INTs and added 313 rushing yards. Vinny Testaverde completed only 43% of his passes, but he averaged 6.6 yards per attempt. None of those QBs (except Dorsey) played in a season with an offensive environment as conducive to scoring as 2004. Yes, Manning had to face a number of hard defenses. Yes, he looked good against Pittsburgh. But, there is no historical precedent for a QB who has a rookie season this bad to turn into a superstar, let alone Eli's brother. His ceiling right now looks like Vinny Part II."

 

[WeScoreMore]

from Pro Football Prospectus on Eli Manning:

"Just a horrible rookie year. Look at the list of the most similar first-year QBs: Steve Walsh, Todd Marinovich, Billy Joe Tolliver, Ken Dorsey, Eric Zeier, Jim Everett, Quincy Carter, Craig Whelihan, and Koy Detmer. Those seasons weren't just similar, they were better: Every single one of those quarterbacks averaged more yards per attempt than Manning, and every single one except Tolliver had a higher completion percentage. Donovan McNabb had a miserable 4.4 yards per attempt as a rookie but at least he threw more TDs than INTs and added 313 rushing yards. Vinny Testaverde completed only 43% of his passes, but he averaged 6.6 yards per attempt. None of those QBs (except Dorsey) played in a season with an offensive environment as conducive to scoring as 2004. Yes, Manning had to face a number of hard defenses. Yes, he looked good against Pittsburgh. But, there is no historical precedent for a QB who has a rookie season this bad to turn into a superstar, let alone Eli's brother. His ceiling right now looks like Vinny Part II."

How surprising?Preseason

One of our writers thinks Eli Manning is overvalued

(based on an ADP of 139, QB 24 on August 20 --- go here for the complete article)

Aaron Rudnicki - While the Giants have made several upgrades on offense that should make Manning’s job easier, ranking him as the #24 QB still seems optimistic. In the 9 games he played last year, he only topped 200 yards passing once and failed to throw a single TD in five of them. Plaxico Burress is capable of being a true #1 WR, but he has been wildly inconsistent during his 5 year career. Amani Toomer is coming off his worst season as a starter, and he never seemed to click with Manning in any of the games they both played in.

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

yep.your point?if you're claiming to get every call correct, I'd like to hire you as a consultant. please fax me proof of all your great calls from the preseason.TIA

 

[WeScoreMore]

yep.

your point?

if you're claiming to get every call correct, I'd like to hire you as a consultant. please fax me proof of all your great calls from the preseason.

TIA

My point was of course you are going to bring up an outlook for Eli in a negative light going into the season.

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

yep.

your point?

if you're claiming to get every call correct, I'd like to hire you as a consultant. please fax me proof of all your great calls from the preseason.

TIA

My point was of course you are going to bring up an outlook for Eli in a negative light going into the season.

you asked WHY FBG ranked him low. I provided you with a legitimate explanation from another source. I doubt FBG were the only ones down on Eli Manning's prospects this year after how horrid he looked in 2004.FWIW, I had him as my #23 ranked QB in my last set of preseason rankings. Just behind Roethlisberger and Harrington and ahead of Warner and Bledsoe.

 

[bentley]

yep.

your point?

if you're claiming to get every call correct, I'd like to hire you as a consultant. please fax me proof of all your great calls from the preseason.

TIA

My point was of course you are going to bring up an outlook for Eli in a negative light going into the season.

you asked WHY FBG ranked him low. I provided you with a legitimate explanation from another source.FWIW, I had him as my #23 ranked QB in my last set of preseason rankings. Just behind Roethlisberger and Harrington and ahead of Warner and Bledsoe.

Drew Bledsoe's the #2 QB in the league so far under our scoring system. Why did you rank him so low?

 

[cracKer]

Back to the point at hand, Eli Manning sure did look like crap on that last drive

 

[WeScoreMore]

if you're claiming to get every call correct, I'd like to hire you as a consultant. please fax me proof of all your great calls from the preseason.

David Carr - sleeper. fine

Chad Pennington - QB rating fine

Kyle Boller - hasnt figured out how to play QB in 30000 nfl games. Always had a line and running game

Brian Griese - horrible offensive line

Ben Roethlisberger - run first offense

Patrick Ramsey - low scoring team

Kurt Warner - has lost it, hasnt he?

Drew Bledsoe - ?

J.P. Losman - rookie QB with no passing skills

So you're telling me all of these QBs in front of Eli were in better situations to succeed in 2005?

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

yep.

your point?

if you're claiming to get every call correct, I'd like to hire you as a consultant. please fax me proof of all your great calls from the preseason.

TIA

My point was of course you are going to bring up an outlook for Eli in a negative light going into the season.

you asked WHY FBG ranked him low. I provided you with a legitimate explanation from another source.FWIW, I had him as my #23 ranked QB in my last set of preseason rankings. Just behind Roethlisberger and Harrington and ahead of Warner and Bledsoe.

Drew Bledsoe's the #2 QB in the league so far under our scoring system. Why did you rank him so low?

my ranking of Bledsoe wasn't much lower than anyone else.I didn't think he had much left, I figured the Cowboys would rely heavily on the running game, and I didn't think their offensive line would be able to give him time in the pocket.

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

if you're claiming to get every call correct, I'd like to hire you as a consultant. please fax me proof of all your great calls from the preseason.

David Carr - sleeper. fine

Chad Pennington - QB rating fine

Kyle Boller - hasnt figured out how to play QB in 30000 nfl games. Always had a line and running game

Brian Griese - horrible offensive line

Ben Roethlisberger - run first offense

Patrick Ramsey - low scoring team

Kurt Warner - has lost it, hasnt he?

Drew Bledsoe - ?

J.P. Losman - rookie QB with no passing skills

So you're telling me all of these QBs in front of Eli were in better situations to succeed in 2005?

no. where did you see me say that?I had Eli ranked ahead of Boller, Ramsey, Warner, Bledsoe, and Losman.

 

[WeScoreMore]

if you're claiming to get every call correct, I'd like to hire you as a consultant. please fax me proof of all your great calls from the preseason.

David Carr - sleeper. fine

Chad Pennington - QB rating fine

Kyle Boller - hasnt figured out how to play QB in 30000 nfl games. Always had a line and running game

Brian Griese - horrible offensive line

Ben Roethlisberger - run first offense

Patrick Ramsey - low scoring team

Kurt Warner - has lost it, hasnt he?

Drew Bledsoe - ?

J.P. Losman - rookie QB with no passing skills

So you're telling me all of these QBs in front of Eli were in better situations to succeed in 2005?

no. where did you see me say that?I had Eli ranked ahead of Boller, Ramsey, Warner, Bledsoe, and Losman.

I havent looked at your personal rankings. My fault. Then I agree where you had him. Just didnt agree with your overvalued writeup.

Above is FBG *official* ranking of Eli

 

[WeScoreMore]

So what am I missing?Why was in a worse situation according to FBG than those you mentioned...

I had Eli ranked ahead of Boller, Ramsey, Warner, Bledsoe, and Losman.

 

[GhostOfAnAlias]

If you're going to take credit for the hits (Willie Parker comes to mind), then you gotta step up and take responsibility for the misses as well.

 

[cracKer]

If you're going to take credit for the hits (Willie Parker comes to mind), then you gotta step up and take responsibility for the misses as well.

What means this?Do you not think that everyone who thought Eli Manning would struggle this year realizes that they may have been wrong? Would an e-mail by Joe to each of the subscribers saying "sorry" be considered "taking responsibility"? Where would it end? He would've had to send out an e-mail last week regarding the ranking of Peyton Manning, only to rescind that e-mail after this weeks performance.

The bottom line is...

1> There are very few players who will end up exactly where they are projected.

2> Four games does not make a season.

 

[Fla\/\/ed]

How about finding any fantasy publication or website that was touting the Giants offense?

 

[GhostOfAnAlias]

If you're going to take credit for the hits (Willie Parker comes to mind), then you gotta step up and take responsibility for the misses as well.

What means this?

It means that it wouldn't kill people to say "Whoa, I really underestimated the entire Giants offense, didn't I?"

2> Four games does not make a season.

If only this phrase was applied equally, instead of being used largely as an excuse for those predictions which (thus far) have been wrong.

 

[Fla\/\/ed]

If you're going to take credit for the hits (Willie Parker comes to mind), then you gotta step up and take responsibility for the misses as well.

What means this?

It means that it wouldn't kill people to say "Whoa, I really underestimated the entire Giants offense, didn't I?"

2> Four games does not make a season.

If only this phrase was applied equally, instead of being used largely as an excuse for those predictions which (thus far) have been wrong.

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[GhostOfAnAlias]

If you're going to take credit for the hits (Willie Parker comes to mind), then you gotta step up and take responsibility for the misses as well.

What means this?

It means that it wouldn't kill people to say "Whoa, I really underestimated the entire Giants offense, didn't I?"

2> Four games does not make a season.

If only this phrase was applied equally, instead of being used largely as an excuse for those predictions which (thus far) have been wrong.

/\l

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Tool

Instead of resorting to name-calling, perhaps you could have judiciously and logically addressed my point?It's easy to tout the predictions that you got right. But why is it so hard for people to own up when a prediction is wrong? You're quick to say "It's only 4 games" when you're wrong, but how many FWP-lovers are using that same phrase?

This thread is filled with hostility and defensiveness, and I am not sure why. Is it because Eli is involved? What?

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

I was way off on Willie Parker and may have had Eli and Plaxico a little bit too low.

 

[Nugget]

Why are people suddenly ripping the staff? Did I miss something. All of these new critics, please post your drafts and I'll go through player by player and make fun of you. TIA.

 

[WeScoreMore]

Why are people suddenly ripping the staff? Did I miss something. All of these new critics, please post your drafts and I'll go through player by player and make fun of you. TIA.

The intent of this thread was not to rip the FBG staff. His schedule was brutal last year which explains his horrible stats. The Giants pass protection and health on their line was in disarray (feel free to ask Warner's neurologist). This offseason the Giants put together many weapons for Eli and set him up for success.

Just looking for any reasoning how a #1 pick, in a improving offense (most key players even in their prime), could be ranked one of bottom5 WORST fantasy QB's going into the season.

 

[Nugget]

Why are people suddenly ripping the staff? Did I miss something. All of these new critics, please post your drafts and I'll go through player by player and make fun of you. TIA.

The intent of this thread was not to rip the FBG staff. His schedule was brutal last year which explains his horrible stats. The Giants pass protection and health on their line was in disarray (feel free to ask Warner's neurologist). This offseason the Giants put together many weapons for Eli and set him up for success.

Just looking for any reasoning how a #1 pick, in a improving offense (most key players even in their prime), could be ranked one of bottom5 WORST fantasy QB's going into the season.

The #1 pick is not impressing me. See David Carr and Tim Couch. Brady was a 6th round pick, he's doing pretty good. Carson Palmer is doing great now, didn't look so good through 1st 4 games last season, 3 TD's to 7 picks.Shockey had 6 TD's last season, Barber had an amazing year. Are you expecting them to improve on last season? I don't now, and I definetly did not a month ago.

Plaxico was a question mark. He was not getting signed in a timely manner, there were some questions about his work ethic and attitude (remember last week when he didn't start due to discipline). The NYG Wr's last season had 2 touchdowns over 16 games. Why would I expect a dramatic improvement?

I see some improvement now, but I'm not convinced Eli is top 12 this season. I don't see a reason to believe he should have been ranked top 20 before the season.

Pointing this out now seems overly critical, even if this was not the intention.

 

[Fla\/\/ed]

Why are people suddenly ripping the staff?  Did I miss something.  All of these new critics, please post your drafts and I'll go through player by player and make fun of you.  TIA.

The intent of this thread was not to rip the FBG staff. His schedule was brutal last year which explains his horrible stats. The Giants pass protection and health on their line was in disarray (feel free to ask Warner's neurologist). This offseason the Giants put together many weapons for Eli and set him up for success.

Just looking for any reasoning how a #1 pick, in a improving offense (most key players even in their prime), could be ranked one of bottom5 WORST fantasy QB's going into the season.

The point you are missing is show us one fantasy site or publication that predicted good/great things for Manning this year. It isn't like this site was predicted something vastly different than anyone else.

 

[WeScoreMore]

Why are people suddenly ripping the staff? Did I miss something. All of these new critics, please post your drafts and I'll go through player by player and make fun of you. TIA.

The intent of this thread was not to rip the FBG staff. His schedule was brutal last year which explains his horrible stats. The Giants pass protection and health on their line was in disarray (feel free to ask Warner's neurologist). This offseason the Giants put together many weapons for Eli and set him up for success.

Just looking for any reasoning how a #1 pick, in a improving offense (most key players even in their prime), could be ranked one of bottom5 WORST fantasy QB's going into the season.

The point you are missing is show us one fantasy site or publication that predicted good/great things for Manning this year. It isn't like this site was predicted something vastly different than anyone else.

http://footballguys.com/05mag_qb.phpQB23 is a HUGE difference compared to the FBG ranking QB28



LOW 19

HIGH 27

FBG 28

 

[Fla\/\/ed]

Why are people suddenly ripping the staff?  Did I miss something.  All of these new critics, please post your drafts and I'll go through player by player and make fun of you.  TIA.

The intent of this thread was not to rip the FBG staff. His schedule was brutal last year which explains his horrible stats. The Giants pass protection and health on their line was in disarray (feel free to ask Warner's neurologist). This offseason the Giants put together many weapons for Eli and set him up for success.

Just looking for any reasoning how a #1 pick, in a improving offense (most key players even in their prime), could be ranked one of bottom5 WORST fantasy QB's going into the season.

The point you are missing is show us one fantasy site or publication that predicted good/great things for Manning this year. It isn't like this site was predicted something vastly different than anyone else.

http://footballguys.com/05mag_qb.phpQB23 is a HUGE difference compared to the FBG ranking QB28



LOW 19

HIGH 27

FBG 28

Ah, no it isn't. You are reaching here and we all realize it except you.

 

[WeScoreMore]

Why are people suddenly ripping the staff? Did I miss something. All of these new critics, please post your drafts and I'll go through player by player and make fun of you. TIA.

The intent of this thread was not to rip the FBG staff. His schedule was brutal last year which explains his horrible stats. The Giants pass protection and health on their line was in disarray (feel free to ask Warner's neurologist). This offseason the Giants put together many weapons for Eli and set him up for success.

Just looking for any reasoning how a #1 pick, in a improving offense (most key players even in their prime), could be ranked one of bottom5 WORST fantasy QB's going into the season.

The point you are missing is show us one fantasy site or publication that predicted good/great things for Manning this year. It isn't like this site was predicted something vastly different than anyone else.

http://footballguys.com/05mag_qb.phpQB23 is a HUGE difference compared to the FBG ranking QB28



LOW 19

HIGH 27

FBG 28

Ah, no it isn't. You are reaching here and we all realize it except you.

The WORST rank of 12 reputable sources was FBG. That doesn't stick out?Who the hell drafts QB28 off the board? QB19-23 are sleeper picks or backups