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Can we discuss Tamme and his lack of snaps? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter ppierce
- Start date
Carter_Can_Fly
Footballguy
He had missed some practice time due to injury and was playing on a short week (thursday). My guess he was used sparingly and on a limited snap count due to that issue.I am hoping the extra rest will allow him to be back out there for his full work load.
I'm wondering if his lack of blocking is keeping him off the field to a certain extent.
Carter_Can_Fly
Footballguy
This is fine then as he would not have been a part of that package to get a target regardless then. I am hoping that he gets 9-11 targets against Jax. He had 5 last game.
Shutout
Footballguy
Here is what I posted on this subject a week or so ago. I think it still applies.
Don't try to overthink this too much.
What has happened the last two games is simple to identify. Tamme's productivity has been when the Colts have moved up and down the field in long drive and he's gotten a lot of yards and catches outside the red zone (and made some good plays and scored from Outside the redzone).
The past two weeks, he has been dealing with a knee/Hammy/back issue so anytime they get into the short yardage redzone situation, NOT because he CAN'T block, but becuase they ARE trying to run some and its silly to use a banged up TE with Back and knee problems to block when they have a bigger TE that specializes in blocking (which also sends a message to the defense that the Colts will try to run so they don't bring the house on Manning...giving the Colts some flexibility).
Also, during the past two weeks, a great amount of those catches and yards that Tamme was getting in the middle of the field have not been there because Manning has been hitting Wayne (mostly) with more deep balls in the last two weeks than they have all season. So, the opportunity has been gone because instead of Tamme getting 1-2 catches every drive for ten yards or so, the Colts have set up shop in the redzone following huge bombs that have made it all the way down the field, just not for scores (Wayne himself has 4 over the last two weeks that have went like this).
Next week should be a great week to start Tamme. The Colts now get ten days to rest everyone and prepare for what could be the game for the division and the Colts absolutely carved the Jags up in the passing game last time they played. The Jags will almost certainly play a lot of deep coverages and zone help and that lends itself for their to be several drives that are more to Tamme's favor.
I've seen several people say "well, next week if I am only going to get 4/45, there are lots of guys on the WW I can pick up and get that out of". Why would you do that? Isn't there a reason they are on the WW to start with? I understand being disappointed in 5 point games when you have been spoiled with 17-22 point games, but why bench Tamme when he is underachieving for a guy whose ceiling is Tamme's floor? Just think about what I've said above, start Tamme, and watch to see if the game unfolds like I mentioned. If it does, you will at least get 7-8 catches and much more yardage, even if a TD isn't in store.
Don't try to overthink this too much.
What has happened the last two games is simple to identify. Tamme's productivity has been when the Colts have moved up and down the field in long drive and he's gotten a lot of yards and catches outside the red zone (and made some good plays and scored from Outside the redzone).
The past two weeks, he has been dealing with a knee/Hammy/back issue so anytime they get into the short yardage redzone situation, NOT because he CAN'T block, but becuase they ARE trying to run some and its silly to use a banged up TE with Back and knee problems to block when they have a bigger TE that specializes in blocking (which also sends a message to the defense that the Colts will try to run so they don't bring the house on Manning...giving the Colts some flexibility).
Also, during the past two weeks, a great amount of those catches and yards that Tamme was getting in the middle of the field have not been there because Manning has been hitting Wayne (mostly) with more deep balls in the last two weeks than they have all season. So, the opportunity has been gone because instead of Tamme getting 1-2 catches every drive for ten yards or so, the Colts have set up shop in the redzone following huge bombs that have made it all the way down the field, just not for scores (Wayne himself has 4 over the last two weeks that have went like this).
Next week should be a great week to start Tamme. The Colts now get ten days to rest everyone and prepare for what could be the game for the division and the Colts absolutely carved the Jags up in the passing game last time they played. The Jags will almost certainly play a lot of deep coverages and zone help and that lends itself for their to be several drives that are more to Tamme's favor.
I've seen several people say "well, next week if I am only going to get 4/45, there are lots of guys on the WW I can pick up and get that out of". Why would you do that? Isn't there a reason they are on the WW to start with? I understand being disappointed in 5 point games when you have been spoiled with 17-22 point games, but why bench Tamme when he is underachieving for a guy whose ceiling is Tamme's floor? Just think about what I've said above, start Tamme, and watch to see if the game unfolds like I mentioned. If it does, you will at least get 7-8 catches and much more yardage, even if a TD isn't in store.
Carter_Can_Fly
Footballguy
That really is a coin flip. Tamme has essentially been targetted consistently since taking over for Clark so look at last game as more of an injury thing at this stage.The one problem is if he is out coming out in the red zone due to blocking and Indy being comfortable with their 3 WR's being the red zone targets vs using their TE's than he does have limited value.
packersfan
Footballguy
Back-to-back sub-par games by his previous level. No snaps in the Red Zone last week and not many as I recall in Week 13. If he isn't getting RZ snaps, his value takes a huge hit obviously. I still think he's a solid TE1 but he's no longer a Must Start. I'd probably start all of the following over Tamme based on what's transpired the last two games:
Gates (if healthy)
Davis
Witten
Gonzalez
I'd also consider starting these TEs over Tamme:
Daniels - looked great Monday night and is a proven stud when healthy
Miller - looked healthy and has a great matchup this week
Gates (if healthy)
Davis
Witten
Gonzalez
I'd also consider starting these TEs over Tamme:
Daniels - looked great Monday night and is a proven stud when healthy
Miller - looked healthy and has a great matchup this week
I agree with all of this but keep in mind that most of Tamme's damage came earlier on in the season, right after Clark went down and when the Colts had essentially no healthy wr's. Garcon was dealing with the hamstring, Collie was hurt, Gonzo was hurt and White wasn't being used. It was essentially Wayne and Tamme.Since the Colts WR's have gotten healthy, Tamme has played a lesser role.
sjacksonfan
Footballguy
They limited his snap count because he was hurt.
coachbobbyfinstock
Footballguy
I agree with all that has been said above (even the gm thinking about starting Gonzo over him.) That said, in the Red Zone last week, Eldridge got a target and it even looked like it was a play run for him. Is this simply an example of the Colts coming out in a run formation and Peyton audibling at the line? Regardless, I'm sticking with Tamme this week. Should be a great game.
Carter_Can_Fly
Footballguy
This is not true of Tamme and of the Colts in general. Tamme (if healthy) will be part of the game plan no matter if all the Colts WR's play.
As a Tamme owner, I'm definitely concerned. His 3 TDs on the season have been 2, 3, and 4 yards, but the last two weeks he hasn't even been in the game during those situations. If they just wanted to limit his touches because of injury, I don't think they'd do it in the red zone since he's been so effective there. It seems like it's more due to his lack of blocking skills, which he isn't going to improve on overnight, so it's a very real possibility that this trend continues.
packersfan
Footballguy
That's my take too. Manning was targeting him a lot in the RZ previously and it was working so I don't see this as an injury issue since he's been playing so much between the 20s. I think it's blocking related and I also think it's a trend. Maybe they work him back in a little this week in the RZ but I wouldn't be surprised to see him standing on the sidelines a lot when they get there again on Sunday.
Exactly correct. His snaps would be limited between the 20's not when they need him the most in the red zone.
I am playing Vernon Davis over Tamme, in all likelihood. Tamme's situation has just become too vague.Back-to-back sub-par games by his previous level. No snaps in the Red Zone last week and not many as I recall in Week 13. If he isn't getting RZ snaps, his value takes a huge hit obviously. I still think he's a solid TE1 but he's no longer a Must Start. I'd probably start all of the following over Tamme based on what's transpired the last two games:Gates (if healthy)DavisWitten GonzalezI'd also consider starting these TEs over Tammeaniels - looked great Monday night and is a proven stud when healthyMiller - looked healthy and has a great matchup this week
Sam Quentin
Footballguy
I'm waiting to see what Tommy300 has to say on this
HULLOBUDMAN
Footballguy
Gonzo this year has 90 targets in 13 games and has had < 10 points 7 times. Gonzo has 5 TDs in 13 games.Tamme has 68 targets in 7 games and had 2 games under 10 points this year. Tamme has 3 TD in 7 games.I understand that everyone may feel a little skittish about starting Tamme after the last 2 games but it is not like Gonzo has been the picture of consistency. I have both and I am starting Tamme.ETA: Gonzo and Tamme's production and targets have been almost identical over the past 2 games outside of Gonzo's 1 TD
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footballnerd
Footballguy
also like the point out that the Colts went ulta-conservative early in the 4th vs TEN, they went run heavy then punted to try to run the clock out, which also made the game closer than it would have been if they ran a regular offense.
Shutout
Footballguy
Do people actually even read what other people post or, even better, actually watch the games ?Anyone who follows the Colts or looks beyond a box score can see this is really much more simple than all the guessing going on here and its stated in the above post. but to cliff notes it:1). He has been hurt with nagging injuries and it makes no sense at all to line him up at the goal line on plays that are running plays when he is is dinged with back/hammy/knee injuries. Even if he were completely healthy, Eldridge is the "blocking" Te in this system.2). The Colts have had situations over the past 2 games that are not typical. Normally, they drive right down the field and hit you in chunks all the way down. Lots of 8, 10, 12, 14 yard plays. The last two games they have had a handful of odd scenarios where Manning has tossed a LONG bomb that Wayne has caught, but just simply has not made it to the end zone. Its happened 4 times in the past two games. Usually, you would see a long TD to a WR but in these cases, its been 40-50 yard completions with a first down inside the 5. This does NOT happen with the Colts a lot but it has the past few weeks. As a result, there have been 2-3 drives per game where instead of Tamme picking up a couple of catches and 18-30 yards, those yards have went to the WRs. 3). The Colts have tried desperately to have some balance but with Addai out, there is nothing there. So, when they have gotten these short scoring opportunities, they HAVE tried to run it (hence, the running packages). Historically, this is what the Colts ALWAYS do because, on every play, Manning has 3 plays to pick from based on what the defense gives him. Most teams assume that the Oclts always throw so he checks into the running play. It has been this way forever. The Colts are almost always more likely to score a running TD if they set up from inside the 3 than a pass (with the exception being that certain teams such as the Patriots, Ravens, and Jags and Titans normally have played them enough to realize what is going on).In the play last week where someone said it was designed to go to Eldridge, it was...after the checkdown: What happened was the Colts wanted to try to get the short run but the Titans brought everyone down to the box. Manning checked OUT of that play and had a lightning quick throw as soon as the ball was snapped.Long story short, the Colts have a lot of things going on that aren't normal to them and have some atypical results. But the way this team operates, they are always fantasy friendly to Wayne and Clark (now Tamme). It is their MAIN operating system in how they move the chains. They are very familiar with the Jags and the Jags simply aren't good enough on defense to play the Colts in any way that can dictate to the Colts how to operate on offense. Tamme will be a good start this week and I really think people shouldn't be trying to outhink themselves on this.
packersfan
Footballguy
He hasn't been on the field in the RZ on obvious passing plays either. That leads me to speculate (and yes that's all any of us can do) that his removal there the past two games is not injury related.
Shoutout, I'm not really sure what you're saying to be honest. The Colts have had 3 1st and goals from inside the 5 in the last 2 games, and they've thrown on 1st down all 3 times (Tamme not in the game). Garcon had a 1 yd. TD on 2nd and goal from the 1- there is no such thing as an "obvious" running play for the Colts, which is why all 3 of Tamme's TDs this year have come from 4 yds or less. He's not even in the game for those plays anymore.
No one is saying he won't put up some good yardage numbers, but if he's going to be removed from plays inside the 10 like he has been the last 2 games, his upside is going to be much more limited than it was.
No one is saying he won't put up some good yardage numbers, but if he's going to be removed from plays inside the 10 like he has been the last 2 games, his upside is going to be much more limited than it was.
packersfan
Footballguy
FYI - Tamme practiced fully today.
Romofan
Footballguy
Wanted to bump this for more discussion. Anybody have any new info on why Tamme was getting pulled near the GL? There are some great posts here by shoutout and others discussing each side. Injury related or otherwise. Was there any more clarification this week if they were pulling him because he was hurt or if they had changed the way they use Tamme (subbing in Eldridge in the RZ/GL situations. )Would love to get some more clarity on this situation.
duaneok66
Footballguy
I just think you have part of the picture - he wasn't getting pulled "at the goal line" - he barely played in the game due to injury - the first games off the bench he was in 3/4 of the time . . .he's healthy this year - start him with confidence . . .
Summer Wheat
Footballguy
Tamme is softer than Dairy Queen vanilla.
Jerry Lawler
Footballguy
Collie was dominating the seam and underneath targets early in the game against Jacksonville. With Collie out this week, Tamme should stand a better shot at getting some targets when the outside receivers are blanketed.
Targets aren't the problem- he's been getting plenty of them, just not when they count in the redzone. Collie being out should help in theory, but Collie was out the previous two weeks and Tamme still wasn't involved there.
He was on the field at least, but he wasn't wide open and Peyton was looking at Collie the entire time- he never even glanced at the side Tamme was on.http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlig...-Collie-7-yd-TDPhilo said:
I guess being on the field in the redzone is better than the last couple of weeks. Hopefully, he'll be targeted more down there this weekend.
