Can we, please stop talking about players in terms of what round you drafted him? (1 Viewer)

[Chaka]

Would it be possible, when talking about drafting players, to speak in terms of where he was drafted among his peers rather than the round you obtained him?

For example: "I acquired Drake London as the 16th WR off the board (WR16)."

Rather than: "I acquired Drake London in the third round." or "I acquired Drake London at 3.04."

I understand that for people who play in the large national FFPCBTQ+ leagues the latter may offer some value, but for the majority of us playing in individual leagues it offers almost nothing useful.

Using the London example:
How many teams in the league? How many WRs are you allowed to start? Is it PPR? 1/2 PPR? Are TEs a separate position? Super-flex? Etc.

Speaking in terms of where a player is taken amongst his peers is translatable to almost any league format. It does break down a bit in leagues that combine WRs & TEs but let's lot let the perfect interfere with the good.

When you tell me London was taken as the WR16, I immediately have a context of where he could be drafted in my specific league.

This has bugged me on this board for...holy crow, literally decades. Wow, thinking of it that way makes me realize... You're getting kinda old @Joe Bryant

Thanks for your consideration. I'll hobble off to my grumpy old man corner now.

 

[Joe Bryant]

Understood.

Drafts are so different talking about a "2nd round" pick sometimes isn't very meaningful.

Often it's more useful to talk about taking a player as WR4 or something like that.

That kind of customized ranking and cheatsheet advice has long been a thing that separates Footballguys from the generic rankings.

 

[Chaka]

Understood.

Drafts are so different talking about a "2nd round" pick sometimes isn't very meaningful.

Often it's more useful to talk about taking a player as WR4 or something like that.

That kind of customized ranking and cheatsheet advice has long been a thing that separates Footballguys from the generic rankings.

Yes and I always appreciate that. In the surface it seems like a small issue but, as a practical matter it's a very big distinction.

I just hope the concept trickles down to the threads where it is virtually non-existent.

Frankly, with so many dedicated players in here I can't understand why it isn't the norm.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Frankly, with so many dedicated players in here I can't understand why it isn't the norm.

I have 8 leagues this year - it gets difficult remembering the pick I took someone with. I can usually remember the round. But I'll do my best, only for you.

 

[FarFromHome]

I don't like people putting boundaries on me. In this case, I agree with the premise, so I'll deal with it more in therapy Thursday.

 

[eighsse2]

Frankly, with so many dedicated players in here I can't understand why it isn't the norm.

I have 8 leagues this year - it gets difficult remembering the pick I took someone with. I can usually remember the round. But I'll do my best, only for you.

Are you reading this as "tell us the exact pick the player went at, not just the round"? Because that's not what he's requesting. Or maybe it's me misunderstanding your post.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Are you reading this as "tell us the exact pick the player went at, not just the round"?

Ah yes, you’re correct. I see he wants to know which at the position. My bad.

Ok, that’s even harder for me to keep track of.

 

[eighsse2]

Are you reading this as "tell us the exact pick the player went at, not just the round"?

Ah yes, you’re correct. I see he wants to know which at the position. My bad.

Ok, that’s even harder for me to keep track of.

Yeah, that's true, haha. Get counting!

 

[Scoresman]

This requires going back and counting which positional pick the player was picked. That's a lot of effort for a short message board post.

I just did a mock and got Kupp in the 4th round, but I'd have to load up the mock again to see which WR pick he was.

I don't usually talk about my drafted teams, so thankfully this doesn't really apply to me.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

I just did a mock and got Kupp in the 4th round, but I'd have to load up the mock again to see which WR pick he was.

I don't usually talk about my drafted teams, so thankfully this doesn't really apply to me.

Bro - you just talked about a *mock* draft.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

I don't like people putting boundaries on me.

@Chaka is not the boss of you!

 

[Long Ball Larry]

NEVER!

 

[BobbyLayne]

I don't like people putting boundaries on me. In this case, I agree with the premise, so I'll deal with it more in therapy Thursday.

I feel seen

 

[BobbyLayne]

For example: "I acquired Drake London as the 16th WR off the board (WR16)."

Rather than: "I acquired Drake London in the third round." or "I acquired Drake London at 3.04."

Generally when discussing players for redraft, I list

• ECR (expert consensus ranking)
• ADP (overall + rd.pk)
• Pos Rnk

If this is too much for you, please LMK. It’s a stressful time of year for all of us and I don’t want add to your burden.

Kidding aside…everyone we encounter is carrying something, and we know nothing about it. Be kind - always.

Anyway, good suggestions Chaka.

 

[Chaka]

Frankly, with so many dedicated players in here I can't understand why it isn't the norm.

I have 8 leagues this year - it gets difficult remembering the pick I took someone with. I can usually remember the round. But I'll do my best, only for you.

I appreciate that brother, and you know I love you but, let's not oversell the effort.

 

[Chaka]

This requires going back and counting which positional pick the player was picked. That's a lot of effort for a short message board post.

I just did a mock and got Kupp in the 4th round, but I'd have to load up the mock again to see which WR pick he was.

I don't usually talk about my drafted teams, so thankfully this doesn't really apply to me.

I appreciate you for at least considering the proposition.

 

[Chaka]

I don't like people putting boundaries on me.

@Chaka is not the boss of you!

That's not how I view the situation.

 

[Chaka]

NEVER!

Qapla'!!!​

 

[Chaka]

For example: "I acquired Drake London as the 16th WR off the board (WR16)."

Rather than: "I acquired Drake London in the third round." or "I acquired Drake London at 3.04."

Generally when discussing players for redraft, I list

• ECR (expert consensus ranking)
• ADP (overall + rd.pk)
• Pos Rnk

If this is too much for you, please LMK. It’s a stressful time of year for all of us and I don’t want add to your burden.

Kidding aside…everyone we encounter is carrying something, and we know nothing about it. Be kind - always.

Anyway, good suggestions Chaka.

Is that like, the Star Trek Mirror Universe version of MLK?

 

[-jb-]

I think positional rank tells part of the story. Real example from this weekend

10 team std

I could tell you that Olave went as the 12th receiver off the board. That would be unremarkable.

If I elaborated and said he went as pick 40, that helps crystallize the variance more.

One shows no variance to ADP. One shows massive variance.

 

[BobbyLayne]

For example: "I acquired Drake London as the 16th WR off the board (WR16)."

Rather than: "I acquired Drake London in the third round." or "I acquired Drake London at 3.04."

Generally when discussing players for redraft, I list

• ECR (expert consensus ranking)
• ADP (overall + rd.pk)
• Pos Rnk

If this is too much for you, please LMK. It’s a stressful time of year for all of us and I don’t want add to your burden.

Kidding aside…everyone we encounter is carrying something, and we know nothing about it. Be kind - always.

Anyway, good suggestions Chaka.

Is that like, the Star Trek Mirror Universe version of MLK?

I am confused.

However….

Spoiler: MLK

In the entire 800+-episode history of Star Trek, Martin Luther King has never been so much as mentioned. Not once in 55 years. They've made references to Jacqueline Susann, Kenneth Branagh, Roger Maris, Elon Musk, and countless other historic figures both real and imagined, but at no point has any character or blurry computer display ever used the name King or anything associated with him.

What this speaks to is likely why King would have liked Star Trek: it depicts a future in which no one needs to understand why he was important.

---

Interestingly, Dr King was a huge Star Trek fan (TOS.) It was the only program he and Coretta would let the children stay up to watch. They loved the morality aspect.

He was introduced to Uhura, Nichelle Nichols, and encouraged to stay with the series because she was a great role model for young blacks to emulate.

 

[BlackCrowes]

Would it be possible, when talking about drafting players, to speak in terms of where he was drafted among his peers rather than the round you obtained him?

For example: "I acquired Drake London as the 16th WR off the board (WR16)."

Rather than: "I acquired Drake London in the third round." or "I acquired Drake London at 3.04."

I understand that for people who play in the large national FFPCBTQ+ leagues the latter may offer some value, but for the majority of us playing in individual leagues it offers almost nothing useful.

Using the London example:
How many teams in the league? How many WRs are you allowed to start? Is it PPR? 1/2 PPR? Are TEs a separate position? Super-flex? Etc.

Speaking in terms of where a player is taken amongst his peers is translatable to almost any league format. It does break down a bit in leagues that combine WRs & TEs but let's lot let the perfect interfere with the good.

When you tell me London was taken as the WR16, I immediately have a context of where he could be drafted in my specific league.

This has bugged me on this board for...holy crow, literally decades. Wow, thinking of it that way makes me realize... You're getting kinda old @Joe Bryant

Thanks for your consideration. I'll hobble off to my grumpy old man corner now.

Here here!

 

[3nOut]

Would it be possible, when talking about drafting players, to speak in terms of where he was drafted among his peers rather than the round you obtained him?

For example: "I acquired Drake London as the 16th WR off the board (WR16)."

Rather than: "I acquired Drake London in the third round." or "I acquired Drake London at 3.04."

I understand that for people who play in the large national FFPCBTQ+ leagues the latter may offer some value, but for the majority of us playing in individual leagues it offers almost nothing useful.

Using the London example:
How many teams in the league? How many WRs are you allowed to start? Is it PPR? 1/2 PPR? Are TEs a separate position? Super-flex? Etc.

Speaking in terms of where a player is taken amongst his peers is translatable to almost any league format. It does break down a bit in leagues that combine WRs & TEs but let's lot let the perfect interfere with the good.

When you tell me London was taken as the WR16, I immediately have a context of where he could be drafted in my specific league.

This has bugged me on this board for...holy crow, literally decades. Wow, thinking of it that way makes me realize... You're getting kinda old @Joe Bryant

Thanks for your consideration. I'll hobble off to my grumpy old man corner now.

Exactly this. I play in a couple of keeper leagues (not dynasty) so my first round is filled with players redraft leagues take in the fourth or fifth in their draft. What is common in both, however, is that they are RB2s and WR2s regardless of league.

 

[Chaka]

I think positional rank tells part of the story. Real example from this weekend

10 team std

I could tell you that Olave went as the 12th receiver off the board. That would be unremarkable.

If I elaborated and said he went as pick 40, that helps crystallize the variance more.

One shows no variance to ADP. One shows massive variance.

I like this perspective but this feels more like an issue relative to your league. If I know he was the 12th WR off the board, I can immediately relate that information to where he may (likely?) be taken in my league? The fact that he was the 40th player off the board seems relevant to your league variables. Honestly in my league I expect about 12 WRs to come off the board in the first three rounds, or so. So, for example, if only eight WRs have gone off the board in the first three rounds (variability happens, which is why we love this game, I think) I can anticipate a WR run in the fourth round and know where Olave will possibly fall in that run.

Being the 12th WR off the board seem, IMO, much more informative than being pick 4.10.

 

[Chaka]

For example: "I acquired Drake London as the 16th WR off the board (WR16)."

Rather than: "I acquired Drake London in the third round." or "I acquired Drake London at 3.04."

Generally when discussing players for redraft, I list

• ECR (expert consensus ranking)
• ADP (overall + rd.pk)
• Pos Rnk

If this is too much for you, please LMK. It’s a stressful time of year for all of us and I don’t want add to your burden.

Kidding aside…everyone we encounter is carrying something, and we know nothing about it. Be kind - always.

Anyway, good suggestions Chaka.

Is that like, the Star Trek Mirror Universe version of MLK?

I am confused.

However….

Spoiler: MLK

In the entire 800+-episode history of Star Trek, Martin Luther King has never been so much as mentioned. Not once in 55 years. They've made references to Jacqueline Susann, Kenneth Branagh, Roger Maris, Elon Musk, and countless other historic figures both real and imagined, but at no point has any character or blurry computer display ever used the name King or anything associated with him.

What this speaks to is likely why King would have liked Star Trek: it depicts a future in which no one needs to understand why he was important.

---

Interestingly, Dr King was a huge Star Trek fan (TOS.) It was the only program he and Coretta would let the children stay up to watch. They loved the morality aspect.

He was introduced to Uhura, Nichelle Nichols, and encouraged to stay with the series because she was a great role model for young blacks to emulate.

Uhhhhh...I was really going for a Yoda Me Let Know vibe.

But yours was good too.

 

[greenmountaingoat]

I’m in a slow redraft on MFL that’s really interesting. 12 teams- QB, SF, 2RB .5 ppr, 2WR 1.0 ppr TE 1.5 ppr , DST K.
No timer so we're averaging about 4-5 rounds per day.

Also keeper-- up to 3 but you loose pick 1, 2, 3 based on how many you keep.

The queue is not adjusted for the format so there’s zero guide rails.

In a slow draft, I have time to check back and forth between a few favorite sources and then consult the board to try and play the ADP game and think a lot about my structure.

FYI, our DP (first three rounds, some of these are plug-ins from keepers)- organized in rows of 12
QB-
Hurts, Mahomes, Jackson, Stroud, Allen, Love, Prescott, Burrow, Richardson, Daniels, Tua, Murray
Purdy, Williams, Cousins, Goff, Rodgers, Lawrence, Mayfield, Herbert, Stafford, Smith, Nix, Watson
Levis, D Jones...

RB-
CMC, Achane, Barkley, Hall, Taylor, Henry, Bijan, Kyren, Gibbs, Etienne, Jacobs, Cook
Mixon, Pacheco, White, Montgomery, Walker, Conner, Kamara, Stevenson, Najee, Javonte, Jones, Swift
Mostert, Singletary, Zamir, Warren, Ekeler, Gus, Pollard, Brown, Robinson, Brooks, Spears...

WR-
Lamb, Hill, ARSB, Jefferson, Pittman, AJB, Chase, Nakua, Adams, Wilson, MHJ, London
Evans, Olave, Deebo, Nabers, Nico, Diggs, Waddle, Kupp, Smith, DJ Moore, Metcalf, Flowers
Aiyuk, Godwin, Higgins, Diontae, Dell, Reed, McLaurin, Watson, Cooper, Rice, Allen, Ridley
..

TE-
Kelce, LaPorta, McBride, Godert, Kincaid, Andrews, Engram, Pitts, Kittle, Njoku, Furguson, Bowers
Schultz

Lack of a typical platform queue is making this one very interesting.

 

[greenmountaingoat]

I thought part of the gist of the question was wondering where they're seeing players go in actual drafts. ADP tools always feel opaque.

 

[GreenNGold]

In my league he went for $27.

 

[BobbyLayne]

Uhhhhh...I was really going for a Yoda Me Let Know vibe.

But yours was good too

Star Wars Star Trek

Spoiler: .

 

[Mister CIA]

Is this there where I can submit a request that only well-known nicknames are used for players?

 

[Chaka]

In my league he went for $27.

Okay, my bad.

And, well played.

Then again, for auction players they probably want to know what the auction budget was to make London a $27 dollar guy.

$100? $200? $500?

 

[Chaka]

Uhhhhh...I was really going for a Yoda Me Let Know vibe.

But yours was good too

Star Wars Star Trek

Spoiler: .

I honestly only interpret your emoji as "not equal to". So, no need to hide.

My question is, which is better?

Answer that and you may have issues.

 

[Chaka]

I’m in a slow redraft on MFL that’s really interesting. 12 teams- QB, SF, 2RB .5 ppr, 2WR 1.0 ppr TE 1.5 ppr , DST K.
No timer so we're averaging about 4-5 rounds per day.

Also keeper-- up to 3 but you loose pick 1, 2, 3 based on how many you keep.

The queue is not adjusted for the format so there’s zero guide rails.

In a slow draft, I have time to check back and forth between a few favorite sources and then consult the board to try and play the ADP game and think a lot about my structure.

FYI, our DP (first three rounds, some of these are plug-ins from keepers)- organized in rows of 12
QB-
Hurts, Mahomes, Jackson, Stroud, Allen, Love, Prescott, Burrow, Richardson, Daniels, Tua, Murray
Purdy, Williams, Cousins, Goff, Rodgers, Lawrence, Mayfield, Herbert, Stafford, Smith, Nix, Watson
Levis, D Jones...

RB-
CMC, Achane, Barkley, Hall, Taylor, Henry, Bijan, Kyren, Gibbs, Etienne, Jacobs, Cook
Mixon, Pacheco, White, Montgomery, Walker, Conner, Kamara, Stevenson, Najee, Javonte, Jones, Swift
Mostert, Singletary, Zamir, Warren, Ekeler, Gus, Pollard, Brown, Robinson, Brooks, Spears...

WR-
Lamb, Hill, ARSB, Jefferson, Pittman, AJB, Chase, Nakua, Adams, Wilson, MHJ, London
Evans, Olave, Deebo, Nabers, Nico, Diggs, Waddle, Kupp, Smith, DJ Moore, Metcalf, Flowers
Aiyuk, Godwin, Higgins, Diontae, Dell, Reed, McLaurin, Watson, Cooper, Rice, Allen, Ridley
..

TE-
Kelce, LaPorta, McBride, Godert, Kincaid, Andrews, Engram, Pitts, Kittle, Njoku, Furguson, Bowers
Schultz

Lack of a typical platform queue is making this one very interesting.

Okay, you win.

TMI

 

[Chaka]

Is this there where I can submit a request that only well-known nicknames are used for players?

The notebook is strong with this one.

 

[BobbyLayne]

Is this there where I can submit a request that only well-known nicknames are used for players?

The notebook is strong with this one.

Some newbie referred to Marv the other day. Took a minute to realize he was trying to discuss MHJ.

My question is, which is better?

Answer that and you may have issues.

This is a serious forum, and you’re not being serious.

Edit yeah the emoji was does not equal; I was discussing TOS bc you said Star Trek. Then you told me you had Yoda in mind.

Do, or do not. There is no try.

 

[kyoun1e]

With all due respect to the great Chaka, I can't disagree more.

I think much more in terms of tiers and rounds vs. positional rankings when it comes to my draft board. There's usually several players across positions that I'll be targeting in a given round or couple of rounds (especially if I'm say, on the turn). I get a much better sense of supply/demand/value this way.

That's the way my brain works.

How my brain doesn't work: "I'm targeting X. Worthy who is ranked around...wait a minute let me check my spreadsheet...I'll be back in 10 minutes here...ah forget it."

 

[Joe Bryant]

With all due respect to the great Chaka, I can't disagree more.

I think much more in terms of tiers and rounds vs. positional rankings when it comes to my draft board. There's usually several players across positions that I'll be targeting in a given round or couple of rounds (especially if I'm say, on the turn). I get a much better sense of supply/demand/value this way.

That's the way my brain works.

How my brain doesn't work: "I'm targeting X. Worthy who is ranked around...wait a minute let me check my spreadsheet...I'll be back in 10 minutes here...ah forget it."

But what he's saying is tiers vary wildly based on how many teams are in the league and the starting lineup requirements.

One can value a guy like Tyler Lockett exactly the same and he'll be drafted in very different rounds in an 8 team league that starts 2 WRs vs a 14 Team league that starts 3 WRs.

It's a lot more useful and translatable to others to talk about Lockett being WR40 (or wherever you drafted him).

 

[Joe Bryant]

In my league he went for $27.

Okay, my bad.

And, well played.

Then again, for auction players they probably want to know what the auction budget was to make London a $27 dollar guy.

$100? $200? $500?

Exactly. In a salary cap league, the amount a player was acquired for is unclear unless you know the total cap.

Any of you old timers that played Rotisserie baseball by the rules in the book know how back in the 80's most leagues used exactly the same rules and lineups and salary cap. So you could talk to a guy across the country about how much you had to spend on Ricky Henderson and it was relevant. Today, that's not the case with so many different rules and salary caps.

 

[kyoun1e]

With all due respect to the great Chaka, I can't disagree more.

I think much more in terms of tiers and rounds vs. positional rankings when it comes to my draft board. There's usually several players across positions that I'll be targeting in a given round or couple of rounds (especially if I'm say, on the turn). I get a much better sense of supply/demand/value this way.

That's the way my brain works.

How my brain doesn't work: "I'm targeting X. Worthy who is ranked around...wait a minute let me check my spreadsheet...I'll be back in 10 minutes here...ah forget it."

But what he's saying is tiers vary wildly based on how many teams are in the league and the starting lineup requirements.

True.

I guess selfish me doesn't understand why anyone on earth would play in an 8 or 10 team league.

Anyway, I'm not counting the number of players above or below my targeted players. I already do too much work for this hobby. Gotta draw the line somewhere. Sorry.

 

[eighsse2]

Is this there where I can submit a request that only well-known nicknames are used for players?

Oh this is a pet peeve of mine, I'll raise you one. Here are your options, folks:

- Last name of player

- First and last name of player (especially with "Smith"s and "Williams"es, etc.)

- First name of player (generally with a more unique first name than last name)

- Suffixes are optional

Next person to say "Jamo" ...

 

[Chaka]

With all due respect to the great Chaka, I can't disagree more.

I think much more in terms of tiers and rounds vs. positional rankings when it comes to my draft board. There's usually several players across positions that I'll be targeting in a given round or couple of rounds (especially if I'm say, on the turn). I get a much better sense of supply/demand/value this way.

That's the way my brain works.

How my brain doesn't work: "I'm targeting X. Worthy who is ranked around...wait a minute let me check my spreadsheet...I'll be back in 10 minutes here...ah forget it."

But what he's saying is tiers vary wildly based on how many teams are in the league and the starting lineup requirements.

True.

I guess selfish me doesn't understand why anyone on earth would play in an 8 or 10 team league.

Anyway, I'm not counting the number of players above or below my targeted players. I already do too much work for this hobby. Gotta draw the line somewhere. Sorry.

That's not selfish. I don't understand how people can play in one quarterback leagues instead of superflex.

It's not just about your ability to help others. It's also the realization that when everyone speaks in terms of round. They're not helping you.

And even if you don't speak in terms of where a player was drafted amongst his peers, it's still helpful to maybe provide other context like, I drafted Drake London and Jaylen waddle and Devonta Smith were still on the board.

But just telling us the round a player was drafted, honestly offers almost no value at all We might as well, not even bother with that and save some time.

Regardless of where you land on this, I do appreciate your engaging in the conversation.

 

[Joe Bryant]

Is this there where I can submit a request that only well-known nicknames are used for players?

Oh this is a pet peeve of mine, I'll raise you one. Here are your options, folks:

- Last name of player

- First and last name of player (especially with "Smith"s and "Williams"es, etc.)

- First name of player (generally with a more unique first name than last name)

- Suffixes are optional

Next person to say "Jamo" ...

Yes. I often get messages that are "Hey, should I trade HRL for DHR but thinking of throwing in JMac but only if I can get DMC2"

 

[Joe Bryant]

It's interesting as @Chaka is hitting on a bigger point I constantly preach to our staff: People do not care one bit about your league. They care about your league to the extent that they can learn something for their league.

So hearing that someone drafted Tyler Lockett at the turn in round ______ isn't very meaningful to the listener.

Hearing Tyler Lockett went WR30 in his draft when he was expecting WR40 is super helpful to the listener.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

In my league he went for $27.

But was he the 27th dollar player off the board? That’s what @Chaka is really asking here.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

But what he's saying is tiers vary wildly based on how many teams are in the league and the starting lineup requirements.

Tiers are also very much in the eye of the beholder.

There’s not really a consensus. Even on sites like FBG, it’s an aggregate, no?

 

[Scoresman]

I'll agree to do what the OP asks if everyone else agrees to stop using the term "He's gonna eat" in reference to a player doing well this year. It's like nails on a chalkboard to me.

 

[-jb-]

There are only two things I can't stand in this world. People who say what round a player is drafted in, and the Dutch.

- Chaka, maybe

 

[Chaka]

I'll agree to do what the OP asks if everyone else agrees to stop using the term "He's gonna eat" in reference to a player doing well this year. It's like nails on a chalkboard to me.

Noted but, maybe don't go into the Henry v Barlkey thread.

 

[kyoun1e]

With all due respect to the great Chaka, I can't disagree more.

I think much more in terms of tiers and rounds vs. positional rankings when it comes to my draft board. There's usually several players across positions that I'll be targeting in a given round or couple of rounds (especially if I'm say, on the turn). I get a much better sense of supply/demand/value this way.

That's the way my brain works.

How my brain doesn't work: "I'm targeting X. Worthy who is ranked around...wait a minute let me check my spreadsheet...I'll be back in 10 minutes here...ah forget it."

But what he's saying is tiers vary wildly based on how many teams are in the league and the starting lineup requirements.

True.

I guess selfish me doesn't understand why anyone on earth would play in an 8 or 10 team league.

Anyway, I'm not counting the number of players above or below my targeted players. I already do too much work for this hobby. Gotta draw the line somewhere. Sorry.

And even if you don't speak in terms of where a player was drafted amongst his peers, it's still helpful to maybe provide other context like, I drafted Drake London and Jaylen waddle and Devonta Smith were still on the board.

Yes!

Totally agree with this for sure.

 

[Mister CIA]

Some newbie referred to Marv the other day. Took a minute to realize he was trying to discuss MHJ.

Precisely. I also recall, a long time ago, someone tried out DWILLY on this forum for DeAngelo Williams.