Can we stop this nonsense about how Jay Cutler's 17-20 record? (1 Viewer)

[Ghost Rider]

I keep hearing about how Cutler supposedly isn't that good because his overall record is only 17-20, but heck, Peyton Manning's record through 37 starts was only 19-18, two games better than Cutler's, so can we please get serious here?

Also, it seems like everyone is ignoring how awful Denver's defense has been for most of the time he has been a starter. The defense was already on the downslide about halfway through the '06 season (after an unbelievable first six games of the '06 season) and they have just gotten worse and worse.

Also, look at Cutler's record based on how many points the defense has allowed:

Points Allowed --- record

0-22 ---- 12-1

23-29 --- 2-6

30-34 --- 2-6

35-39 --- 1-2

40+ --- 0-5

Total --- 17-20

So, in 16 of Cutler's 37 starts, the defense has allowed 30 points or more!

How many QBs would have a winning record when playing on a team where the defense allows 30 or more 43% of the time?

And when given (at worst) a good defensive effort, Cutler is more than good enough to get enough points for the team to win, unless you think going 12-1 when his defense allows 22 points or less isn't any good.

Don't get me wrong...there are aspects to his game that Cutler still needs to improve, but he is already a very good NFL QB, and his the sky is the limit for him. I just hope that he reaches the sky in Denver, not on another team.

 

[scrumptrulescent]

No way. Matt Cassel is better!

McDaniel =

 

[a_troll00]

Here's the truth about the record last season. The Broncos' defense was so horrible and running game so sporadic... this team would have been a 2-14 or 3-13 team without Cutler.

 

[Ghost Rider]

Here's the truth about the record last season. The Broncos' defense was so horrible and running game so sporadic... this team would have been a 2-14 or 3-13 team without Cutler.

Not sure they would have been that bad, but without Cutler, they probably don't win the games against SD, NO, Cleveland, Atlanta and the Jets.

 

[NJDawgPound]

As a QB, more often than not:

You win- you look better than you are. See Roethlisberger, Ben.

You lose- you look worse than you are. See Cutler, Jay.

It's a what have you done for me lately world, and unfortunately the last things Cutler has done are whining over and over about being involved in a trade rumor and losing a win and in scenario for the second time in his career (albeit his first one he was knocked out of the game).

He's not doing himself any favors by his behavior. Hell, Wayne Gretzky and Joe Montana were traded.

 

[a_troll00]

Here's the truth about the record last season. The Broncos' defense was so horrible and running game so sporadic... this team would have been a 2-14 or 3-13 team without Cutler.

Not sure they would have been that bad, but without Cutler, they probably don't win the games against SD, NO, Cleveland, Atlanta and the Jets.

Take away those 5 wins and you're at 3-13 already.

 

[ClownDogs]

As a QB, more often than not: You win- you look better than you are. See Roethlisberger, Ben.You lose- you look worse than you are. See Cutler, Jay. It's a what have you done for me lately world, and unfortunately the last things Cutler has done are whining over and over about being involved in a trade rumor and losing a win and in scenario for the second time in his career (albeit his first one he was knocked out of the game).He's not doing himself any favors by his behavior. Hell, Wayne Gretzky and Joe Montana were traded.

I kinda take this as a knock on Ben? He came from behind 6 or 7 times last year in the 4th quarter or later and won games(not the defense, him), I think that makes him pretty good. And by the way, 2 super bowl rings isn't bad either. As for Cutler, he has talent around him, he is gonna be a good QB for years to come imo.

 

[munchkin]

Cutler is not a very good NFL QB but he has the potential to be.

To be considered very good he will need to stop trying to force the ball to receivers who are double covered over and over again. He has viable 2nd, 3rd and 4th options in his receiving corp yet he is often overly persistent in locking in on Marshall. He needs to read the field better. McDaniels looks at Cassel and sees someone with fewer skills but a better understanding of what to do with the ball. When Moss was double covered, which was most of the time, he looked to Welker, Gaffney and Watson. What the coach wants out of Cutler is to see a QB who has a clear understanding of the game plan and the ability to carry it out. When he shows a willingness to do that he will become a very good QB.

Cuter's talent level is grade A but his field awareness is C+.

 

[Blue-Kun]

Cutler is not a very good NFL QB

 

[hostile]

How would we be viewing Cutler this offseason if the Bronco defence was that of the Steelers, their running game (or lack thereof) aside?...

 

[jonessed]

Here's the truth about the record last season. The Broncos' defense was so horrible and running game so sporadic... this team would have been a 2-14 or 3-13 team without Cutler.

They had a good running game last year despite the revolving door. Their offensive problems were turning the ball over and not getting it done in the redzone.

 

[Despyzer]

I think it's interesting how when Cutler made the Pro Bowl over Rivers so many people pointed to their respective win/loss totals at the time, but suddenly now win/loss records are irrelevant.

Quite simply put, it's a team game. The QB isn't single-handedly winning the games or losing them.

* Also, don't we already have a couple of threads around here that include discussion of the merits of this topic?

 

[moleculo]

I keep hearing about how Cutler supposedly isn't that good because his overall record is only 17-20, but heck, Peyton Manning's record through 37 starts was only 19-18, two games better than Cutler's, so can we please get serious here? Also, it seems like everyone is ignoring how awful Denver's defense has been for most of the time he has been a starter. The defense was already on the downslide about halfway through the '06 season (after an unbelievable first six games of the '06 season) and they have just gotten worse and worse. Also, look at Cutler's record based on how many points the defense has allowedoints Allowed --- record0-22 ---- 12-123-29 --- 2-630-34 --- 2-635-39 --- 1-240+ --- 0-5Total --- 17-20So, in 16 of Cutler's 37 starts, the defense has allowed 30 points or more! How many QBs would have a winning record when playing on a team where the defense allows 30 or more 43% of the time? And when given (at worst) a good defensive effort, Cutler is more than good enough to get enough points for the team to win, unless you think going 12-1 when his defense allows 22 points or less isn't any good.Don't get me wrong...there are aspects to his game that Cutler still needs to improve, but he is already a very good NFL QB, and his the sky is the limit for him. I just hope that he reaches the sky in Denver, not on another team.

As soon as Cutler leads the Broncos to a 10+ win season, I'll agree. Until then, I'll continue to remember his red zone ints, his forcing the ball to Marshall despite double coverage, and his incessant whining to the refs.He's got a hell of an arm for sure, but so far I'm not impressed with his maturity level. Until experience catches up with talent, all Cutler has is potential.

 

[Mustang Man]

As a QB, more often than not: You win- you look better than you are. See Roethlisberger, Ben.You lose- you look worse than you are. See Cutler, Jay. It's a what have you done for me lately world, and unfortunately the last things Cutler has done are whining over and over about being involved in a trade rumor and losing a win and in scenario for the second time in his career (albeit his first one he was knocked out of the game).He's not doing himself any favors by his behavior. Hell, Wayne Gretzky and Joe Montana were traded.

One exception is Tony Romo look up his record as a starting qb and you would think it was more like Cutlers. It is a team game and the QB gets way to much praise if his team wins and way to much blame if they lose. Gota say though Big Ben is hella good. The guy makes a play when it matters. He does play on a team with a great defense and very well coached team so that makes him look like a world beater compared to Cutler but they are pretty close in talent. Let's see them trade teams and it would not look much different for either franchise.

 

[Donnybrook]

...He's not doing himself any favors by his behavior. Hell, Wayne Gretzky and Joe Montana were traded.

I think people are being a little hard on Cutler. How was he supposed to react? BTW, Wayne Gretzky cried his eyes out when he was traded and Joe Montana shouldn't been surprised since he was the one that asked to be traded.

 

[Mr. Black]

I just want to know when did we start keeping QB win/loss records as if this was baseball. I understand using the records for pitchers but in football there are too many other variables involved to count wins and losses for QB's IMO.

 

[Sweetness_34]

As a QB, more often than not: You win- you look better than you are. See Roethlisberger, Ben.You lose- you look worse than you are. See Cutler, Jay.

That right there shows how stupid most "fans" are. Football is the ultimate team game yet people want to shower all the praise or blame on one person. Tom Brady is good but he is not really that good without a Randy Moss and Wes Welker; Peyton M is good but he is not really that good without a Harrison (in his prime) and Wayne. Romo is good but you will soon find out he is not that good without a TO. All this excessive QB loving or bashing is stupid; one would think at some point people would realize this is a team game.

 

[by_the_sea_wannabe]

As a QB, more often than not: You win- you look better than you are. See Roethlisberger, Ben.You lose- you look worse than you are. See Cutler, Jay. It's a what have you done for me lately world, and unfortunately the last things Cutler has done are whining over and over about being involved in a trade rumor and losing a win and in scenario for the second time in his career (albeit his first one he was knocked out of the game).He's not doing himself any favors by his behavior. Hell, Wayne Gretzky and Joe Montana were traded.

I kinda take this as a knock on Ben? He came from behind 6 or 7 times last year in the 4th quarter or later and won games(not the defense, him), I think that makes him pretty good. And by the way, 2 super bowl rings isn't bad either. As for Cutler, he has talent around him, he is gonna be a good QB for years to come imo.

I love Big Ben and the 6-pack he helped to bring to the Burgh this year and yes he had a lot of great comebacks this year but .... If he had not played so horrible in the first 3 quarters of several of those game, they wouldn't have even been close. The all-timeish great defense that we had gave him a chance for those come from behind victories, despite his horrid play

 

[ClownDogs]

As a QB, more often than not: You win- you look better than you are. See Roethlisberger, Ben.You lose- you look worse than you are. See Cutler, Jay.

That right there shows how stupid most "fans" are. Football is the ultimate team game yet people want to shower all the praise or blame on one person. Tom Brady is good but he is not really that good without a Randy Moss and Wes Welker; Peyton M is good but he is not really that good without a Harrison (in his prime) and Wayne. Romo is good but you will soon find out he is not that good without a TO. All this excessive QB loving or bashing is stupid; one would think at some point people would realize this is a team game.

I wouldn't say Brady is not really good without Moss/Welker. How many of the Rings were they there for? Brady had scrubs at WR and won rings, he is good, hands down.

 

[menobrown]

You win- you look better than you are. See Roethlisberger, Ben.You lose- you look worse than you are. See Cutler, Jay.

It's not a mirage. I've already said this in another post about Cutler but he simply does not make the teams he plays on better. The short version of it is Vandy got better when Cutler left and Denver regressed when Cutler took over. Ben did not simply happen to be the doofus standing under center when Cowher finally won a SB after 15 years nor was he just a guy on last years team. Ben played behind what might have been the worst offensive line in the NFL last year and just won game after game. Playing a SB game behind a poor OL, with no running game and his most reliable target a shell of himself he simply made plays to win the game. Meanwhile Cutler supporters want to excuse the fact that in over 6 years on the collegiate and NFL record he's never even led a team to winning record.

 

[Chase Stuart]

Joe Kapp, 1969 Vikings: 12-1

Joe Kapp, 1970 Patriots: 1-9

 

[PatsWillWin]

Joe Kapp, 1969 Vikings: 12-1

Joe Kapp, 1970 Patriots: 1-9

Compelling.

 

[Phurfur]

As a QB, more often than not:

You win- you look better than you are. See Roethlisberger, Ben.

You lose- you look worse than you are. See Cutler, Jay.



It's a what have you done for me lately world, and unfortunately the last things Cutler has done are whining over and over about being involved in a trade rumor and losing a win and in scenario for the second time in his career (albeit his first one he was knocked out of the game).

He's not doing himself any favors by his behavior. Hell, Wayne Gretzky and Joe Montana were traded.

I kinda take this as a knock on Ben? He came from behind 6 or 7 times last year in the 4th quarter or later and won games(not the defense, him), I think that makes him pretty good. And by the way, 2 super bowl rings isn't bad either. As for Cutler, he has talent around him, he is gonna be a good QB for years to come imo.

and we know who lead the last minute drive to win the last SB.

 

[menobrown]

Joe Kapp, 1969 Vikings: 12-1Joe Kapp, 1970 Patriots: 1-9

Number of playoff wins by Chiefs in one year with Joe Montana- 2Number of playoff wins by Chiefs since Montana left after 1993- 0

 

[comfortably numb]

Joe Kapp, 1969 Vikings: 12-1Joe Kapp, 1970 Patriots: 1-9

Number of playoff wins by Chiefs in one year with Joe Montana- 2Number of playoff wins by Chiefs since Montana left after 1993- 0

OUCHReally?I would have never thought the Chiefs had not won a playoff game since 93

 

[zdaddy]

Here's the truth about the record last season. The Broncos' defense was so horrible and running game so sporadic... this team would have been a 2-14 or 3-13 team without Cutler.

They had a good running game last year despite the revolving door. Their offensive problems were turning the ball over and not getting it done in the redzone.

The running game was not there during the late season collapse; thus the reason they lost the division.

 

[zdaddy]

You win- you look better than you are. See Roethlisberger, Ben.You lose- you look worse than you are. See Cutler, Jay.

It's not a mirage. I've already said this in another post about Cutler but he simply does not make the teams he plays on better. The short version of it is Vandy got better when Cutler left and Denver regressed when Cutler took over. Ben did not simply happen to be the doofus standing under center when Cowher finally won a SB after 15 years nor was he just a guy on last years team. Ben played behind what might have been the worst offensive line in the NFL last year and just won game after game. Playing a SB game behind a poor OL, with no running game and his most reliable target a shell of himself he simply made plays to win the game. Meanwhile Cutler supporters want to excuse the fact that in over 6 years on the collegiate and NFL record he's never even led a team to winning record.

How did this turn into a Jay vs Ben thread? The only reason Denver lead the west for most of the year was because of the O. How many QB's in this league do you think would have made that O better than Cutler did? Do you think the Denver O would have been better with Ben. Do you agree that the reason Cutler was forcing so much last year was because he knew that he had no support on D and he had to get it done or lose?

 

[ninerfanatic492000]

As a QB, more often than not: You win- you look better than you are. See Roethlisberger, Ben.You lose- you look worse than you are. See Cutler, Jay.

That right there shows how stupid most "fans" are. Football is the ultimate team game yet people want to shower all the praise or blame on one person. Tom Brady is good but he is not really that good without a Randy Moss and Wes Welker; Peyton M is good but he is not really that good without a Harrison (in his prime) and Wayne. Romo is good but you will soon find out he is not that good without a TO. All this excessive QB loving or bashing is stupid; one would think at some point people would realize this is a team game.

I wouldn't say Brady is not really good without Moss/Welker. How many of the Rings were they there for? Brady had scrubs at WR and won rings, he is good, hands down.

Brady won a ring with Troy Brown/David Patten. he won again with Deion Branch/David Givens then came extemely close with Moss/Welker. i agree he's pretty good anyway u look at it, hands down.Comparing Cutler's/Petyon's early records is wrong. the Colts were #### when Peyton was drafted(evident with them using the #1overall on him). the Broncos were a competitive team when he arrived that Jake Plummer had taken to the playoffs in prior years Culter had a offensive mastermind(shanahan) calling plays. Peyton had well not so much..............Mora who wasn't a bad coach, but not the offensive aficionado Shanny was

 

[zdaddy]

As a QB, more often than not: You win- you look better than you are. See Roethlisberger, Ben.You lose- you look worse than you are. See Cutler, Jay.

That right there shows how stupid most "fans" are. Football is the ultimate team game yet people want to shower all the praise or blame on one person. Tom Brady is good but he is not really that good without a Randy Moss and Wes Welker; Peyton M is good but he is not really that good without a Harrison (in his prime) and Wayne. Romo is good but you will soon find out he is not that good without a TO. All this excessive QB loving or bashing is stupid; one would think at some point people would realize this is a team game.

I wouldn't say Brady is not really good without Moss/Welker. How many of the Rings were they there for? Brady had scrubs at WR and won rings, he is good, hands down.

Brady won a ring with Troy Brown/David Patten. he won again with Deion Branch/David Givens then came extemely close with Moss/Welker. i agree he's pretty good anyway u look at it, hands down.Comparing Cutler's/Petyon's early records is wrong. the Colts were #### when Peyton was drafted(evident with them using the #1overall on him). the Broncos were a competitive team when he arrived that Jake Plummer had taken to the playoffs in prior years Culter had a offensive mastermind(shanahan) calling plays. Peyton had well not so much..............Mora who wasn't a bad coach, but not the offensive aficionado Shanny was

Pretty sure that Indy went to the AFC championship game a year or two before they drafted Peyton.

 

[djcolts]

As a QB, more often than not: You win- you look better than you are. See Roethlisberger, Ben.You lose- you look worse than you are. See Cutler, Jay.

That right there shows how stupid most "fans" are. Football is the ultimate team game yet people want to shower all the praise or blame on one person. Tom Brady is good but he is not really that good without a Randy Moss and Wes Welker; Peyton M is good but he is not really that good without a Harrison (in his prime) and Wayne. Romo is good but you will soon find out he is not that good without a TO. All this excessive QB loving or bashing is stupid; one would think at some point people would realize this is a team game.

I wouldn't say Brady is not really good without Moss/Welker. How many of the Rings were they there for? Brady had scrubs at WR and won rings, he is good, hands down.

Brady won a ring with Troy Brown/David Patten. he won again with Deion Branch/David Givens then came extemely close with Moss/Welker. i agree he's pretty good anyway u look at it, hands down.Comparing Cutler's/Petyon's early records is wrong. the Colts were #### when Peyton was drafted(evident with them using the #1overall on him). the Broncos were a competitive team when he arrived that Jake Plummer had taken to the playoffs in prior years Culter had a offensive mastermind(shanahan) calling plays. Peyton had well not so much..............Mora who wasn't a bad coach, but not the offensive aficionado Shanny was

Pretty sure that Indy went to the AFC championship game a year or two before they drafted Peyton.

3 seasons. And that team fell apart quickly when LT Will Wolford was replaced by Troy Auzene (sp) - and then the OL got much worse from there. There was a reason the Colts had the #1 pick to pick Peyton - they were terrible.Below is the 1998 Colts Roster. A few names - but most of the players were either not talented (see Steve Morrison - who may have been the slowest starting LB in recent NFL history), too young or too old. 1998 Indianapolis ColtsHead Coach: Jim MoraTo be listed, a player must have played at least one game for the team during this season.LB Elijah Alexander CB Billy Austin WR Aaron Bailey TE Brad Banta LB Michael Barber DB Jason Belser LB/DE Bertrand Berry S Robert Blackmon CB Tony Blevins CB Jeff Burris DT Larry Chester LB Jason Chorak DB Rico Clark LB Steven Conley FB Zack Crockett TE Ken Dilger RB Keith Elias RB Marshall Faulk DE Al Fontenot DE Dan Footman P Chris Gardocki T Tarik Glenn WR E.G. Green FB Scott Greene WR Marvin Harrison S Tim Hauck LB Jeff Herrod FB/RB Chris Hetherington FB Craig Heyward LB Rob Holmberg T Waverly Jackson DT Ellis Johnson C Jason Johnson LB Antony Jordon C Jay Leeuwenburg T Tony Mandarich QB Peyton Manning NT Steve Martin NT Tony McCoy CB Ray McElroy WR Kaipo McGuire G/C Steve McKinney T Adam Meadows CB Monty Montgomery G/C Larry Moore LB Steve Morrison G Tom Myslinski WR Jerome Pathon TE Marcus Pollard CB Tyrone Poole LB Andre Royal WR Freddie Scott DT/DE Kendel Shello WR Torrance Small DE Mark Thomas LB Ratcliff Thomas DE Van Tuinei K Mike Vanderjagt RB Lamont Warren DE Bernard Whittington DT Jeff Zgonina

 

[H.K.]

I keep hearing about how Cutler supposedly isn't that good because his overall record is only 17-20, but heck, Peyton Manning's record through 37 starts was only 19-18, two games better than Cutler's, so can we please get serious here?

Also, it seems like everyone is ignoring how awful Denver's defense has been for most of the time he has been a starter. The defense was already on the downslide about halfway through the '06 season (after an unbelievable first six games of the '06 season) and they have just gotten worse and worse.

Also, look at Cutler's record based on how many points the defense has allowed:

Points Allowed --- record

0-22 ---- 12-1

23-29 --- 2-6

30-34 --- 2-6

35-39 --- 1-2

40+ --- 0-5

Total --- 17-20

So, in 16 of Cutler's 37 starts, the defense has allowed 30 points or more!

How many QBs would have a winning record when playing on a team where the defense allows 30 or more 43% of the time?

And when given (at worst) a good defensive effort, Cutler is more than good enough to get enough points for the team to win, unless you think going 12-1 when his defense allows 22 points or less isn't any good.

Don't get me wrong...there are aspects to his game that Cutler still needs to improve, but he is already a very good NFL QB, and his the sky is the limit for him. I just hope that he reaches the sky in Denver, not on another team.

This is one example of why I disagree with your analysis Cutler throws a pick on the first series and D hold Dolphins to three plays and gives up a FG - Broncos down 3-0

Next series Cutler goes three and out, D right back on field and gives up another 3 points...6-0

Next series Cutler is picked and it is returned for a TD. It's 13-0 out of the gate and the Bronco offense has done everything it could to stab the defense right in the back.

In the fourth quarter, Cutler gets picked in his own territory and it leads to another FG and puts them down 19-10. Both Teams trade TD's and the Broncos lose 26-17.

Fast forward to your analysis, and the story is the defense gave up 26 points and it's their fault.

In reality, Cutler handed the opposition 13 points from his turnovers.

This is just one game. If you go back and look at all his losses, you'll find plenty of other opportunities where Cutler could have made things easier on his defense. It's why QB play is so important.

 

[Ghost Rider]

It's not a mirage. I've already said this in another post about Cutler but he simply does not make the teams he plays on better. The short version of it is Vandy got better when Cutler left and Denver regressed when Cutler took over.

Denver's record has gotten worse since Cutler came over because of how the defense has fallen apart. That is as plain as day for anyone with two eyes to see. Also, Vandy got better after he left? Well, Tennessee didn't win a national title until after Peyton Manning left. What does that mean?

Cutler throws a pick on the first series and D hold Dolphins to three plays and gives up a FG - Broncos down 3-0

Next series Cutler goes three and out, D right back on field and gives up another 3 points...6-0

Next series Cutler is picked and it is returned for a TD. It's 13-0 out of the gate and the Bronco offense has done everything it could to stab the defense right in the back.

In the fourth quarter, Cutler gets picked in his own territory and it leads to another FG and puts them down 19-10. Both Teams trade TD's and the Broncos lose 26-17.

Fast forward to your analysis, and the story is the defense gave up 26 points and it's their fault.

In reality, Cutler handed the opposition 13 points from his turnovers.

This is just one game. If you go back and look at all his losses, you'll find plenty of other opportunities where Cutler could have made things easier on his defense. It's why QB play is so important.

The Miami game is the one game last year where Cutler didn't play well, although neither did the defense. And, yes, I am sure he made mistakes in the other losses, but that just shows you how awful the defense was...a QB would have had to had played a perfect game to get the Broncos enough points to win some of those games.Also, notice how in the games where the defense actually played decent, Cutler was great in almost all of those games. It is easier to play loose and mistake-free ball when you don't think that you have to score on every possession to win the game because your defense sucks something awful.

 

[H.K.]

The Miami game is the one game last year where Cutler didn't play well

He did not play well against Oakland, Carolina or NE. Teams aren't going to win a lot of games when the offense scores 10, 10, and 7 points. The defense sucks, you get no argument from me there. Also, I think Cutler is a very good young QB with lots of potential, but he can isn't immune to criticism for their losses last year.

 

[loose circuits]

i've given up on trying to defend him and Forte, the hate on this board is just too great and you won't be able convince anyone otherwise. THey'll have to prove it on the field

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

The defense sucks, you get no argument from me there. Also, I think Cutler is a very good young QB with lots of potential, but he can isn't immune to criticism for their losses last year.

Just anecdotally, it seems like Cutler plays his worst in pressure situations -- in the red zone, or when the game is on the line. A perfect example of that was in week two last year against the Chargers. With a little over a minute left, from around the Chargers' ten-yard line, with the Broncos trailing by a TD, Cutler dropped back and . . . just fumbled the ball straight up into the air for no good reason. Like Garo Yepremian. (And that one doesn't even officially go on his record as a loss.)And I guess it's not just anecdotal. Because I just looked it up, and out of the 28 QBs who had at least 35 pass attempts in the red zone last year, Cutler was 25th out of 28 in passer rating.

 

[Courtjester]

The defense sucks, you get no argument from me there. Also, I think Cutler is a very good young QB with lots of potential, but he can isn't immune to criticism for their losses last year.

Just anecdotally, it seems like Cutler plays his worst in pressure situations -- in the red zone, or when the game is on the line. A perfect example of that was in week two last year against the Chargers. With a little over a minute left, from around the Chargers' ten-yard line, with the Broncos trailing by a TD, Cutler dropped back and . . . just fumbled the ball straight up into the air for no good reason. Like Garo Yepremian. (And that one doesn't even officially go on his record as a loss.)And I guess it's not just anecdotal. Because I just looked it up, and out of the 28 QBs who had at least 35 pass attempts in the red zone last year, Cutler was 25th out of 28 in passer rating.

If you watched the Broncos play last year, you would note that most of the time the play calling and not Cutler was the biggest problem for the Broncos inside the red zone. It was as if they wouldn't even think of attempting a run, it was always pass, pass, pass and yes, on some of those attempts Cutler would "force" it to Marshall resulting in an int. I can only guess that the lack of a rushing attack inside the 20 had something to do with the revolving door at RB due to injuries, but I could be wrong about that,

 

[munchkin]

i've given up on trying to defend him and Forte, the hate on this board is just too great and you won't be able convince anyone otherwise. THey'll have to prove it on the field

I am a Patriots fan living in the heart of Brocnco's country and I can't tell you how many times I've come in on Monday/Tuesday mornings and heard " what the *&%^ is Cutler thinking throwing the ball into double coverage time and again. When he doesn't focus on one receiver and spreads the ball around he is generally spot on. However, he doesn't seem to do it enough to satisfy many of the Bronco's fans I work with. That is not my biased opinion but that of informed fans who have been following this team for a number of years.Cutler has been passed by Phillip Rivers as the best QB in that division.

 

[jonessed]

The defense sucks, you get no argument from me there. Also, I think Cutler is a very good young QB with lots of potential, but he can isn't immune to criticism for their losses last year.

Just anecdotally, it seems like Cutler plays his worst in pressure situations -- in the red zone, or when the game is on the line. A perfect example of that was in week two last year against the Chargers. With a little over a minute left, from around the Chargers' ten-yard line, with the Broncos trailing by a TD, Cutler dropped back and . . . just fumbled the ball straight up into the air for no good reason. Like Garo Yepremian. (And that one doesn't even officially go on his record as a loss.)And I guess it's not just anecdotal. Because I just looked it up, and out of the 28 QBs who had at least 35 pass attempts in the red zone last year, Cutler was 25th out of 28 in passer rating.

If you watched the Broncos play last year, you would note that most of the time the play calling and not Cutler was the biggest problem for the Broncos inside the red zone. It was as if they wouldn't even think of attempting a run, it was always pass, pass, pass and yes, on some of those attempts Cutler would "force" it to Marshall resulting in an int. I can only guess that the lack of a rushing attack inside the 20 had something to do with the revolving door at RB due to injuries, but I could be wrong about that,

The fact that he tries to rifle everything doesn't help either. Touch passes become increasingly important in the red zone to avoid getting picked by the compact coverage. Maybe this is something he will develop, but he's not very good at it right now.

 

[thesurfshop19]

My perspective is that the bar is set too high for most Denver fans. Anyone who doesn't produce like John Elway, makes decisions early, and all of that, is over-criticized and over-analyzed.

Jay Cutler is still exceptionally young. If he were already making all of the right decisions, he'd be a freak of nature. It seems to me that he should be making a lot of mistakes like all young QBs.

Is he better than Philip Rivers? In my opinion, right now, absolutely not. He has the potential to be, and shouldn't that be enough?

Is he on track to be better than John Elway? Probably not right now. And probably not ever. But so what? Why is that an issue? No other QB has started 5 Super Bowls, but that's no reason to throw away a guy with potential to win maybe 1 or 2.

I feel like Cutler's shown me a lot in his 3 years on the team and enough to be established as the team leader going forward. Yes, he's being a huge baby about this, and yes, business is business, and that is annoying. But at the end of the day, he's the guy I want leading the team.

We've overanalyzed this kid too much. The Broncos brass needs to approach this from a more realistic perspective and deal with Cutler more appropriately. Not everyone responds well to authoritarian regime changes, and it would serve the team well to adapt their approach, rapidly and privately, so the team benefits.

 

[Ghost Rider]

The Miami game is the one game last year where Cutler didn't play well

He did not play well against Oakland, Carolina or NE. Teams aren't going to win a lot of games when the offense scores 10, 10, and 7 points. The defense sucks, you get no argument from me there. Also, I think Cutler is a very good young QB with lots of potential, but he can isn't immune to criticism for their losses last year.

I should have clarified what I meant when I said that. What I meant was that that was the one game where Cutler's mistakes was integral in them losing (although he had the offense cooking when they got it to 19-17, but the defense then allowed Miami to march on a long drive to put the game away at 26-17). The whole team played terrible in the Carolina game, the offense as a whole looked lethargic in the Oakland game, and the New England is the game where Cutler played poorly because he hurt his finger on the first play of the game (and the defense was beyond pathetic in that game). I am not trying to excuse his mediocre performances; I am just saying, I would not put the blame on him for those losses. Yes, they only scored a combined 27 points in those three games, but they allowed 102 points. Teams aren't going to win a lot of games when the defense allows 34 points a game.

 

[Mustang Man]

As a QB, more often than not: You win- you look better than you are. See Roethlisberger, Ben.You lose- you look worse than you are. See Cutler, Jay. It's a what have you done for me lately world, and unfortunately the last things Cutler has done are whining over and over about being involved in a trade rumor and losing a win and in scenario for the second time in his career (albeit his first one he was knocked out of the game).He's not doing himself any favors by his behavior. Hell, Wayne Gretzky and Joe Montana were traded.

I kinda take this as a knock on Ben? He came from behind 6 or 7 times last year in the 4th quarter or later and won games(not the defense, him), I think that makes him pretty good. And by the way, 2 super bowl rings isn't bad either. As for Cutler, he has talent around him, he is gonna be a good QB for years to come imo.

I love Big Ben and the 6-pack he helped to bring to the Burgh this year and yes he had a lot of great comebacks this year but .... If he had not played so horrible in the first 3 quarters of several of those game, they wouldn't have even been close. The all-timeish great defense that we had gave him a chance for those come from behind victories, despite his horrid play

I understand that and I have heard that from other Pitt fans but you got to remember this, that all time great defense got their #### handed to them in the 4th quarter of that 6 pack winning Super Bowl and Big Ben saved their butt for sure.

 

[Tau837]

Here's the truth about the record last season. The Broncos' defense was so horrible and running game so sporadic... this team would have been a 2-14 or 3-13 team without Cutler.

Not sure they would have been that bad, but without Cutler, they probably don't win the games against SD, NO, Cleveland, Atlanta and the Jets.

Actually, they didn't win the game against SD even with Cutler... without Ed Hochuli.

 

[Ghost Rider]

Here's the truth about the record last season. The Broncos' defense was so horrible and running game so sporadic... this team would have been a 2-14 or 3-13 team without Cutler.

Not sure they would have been that bad, but without Cutler, they probably don't win the games against SD, NO, Cleveland, Atlanta and the Jets.

Actually, they didn't win the game against SD even with Cutler... without Ed Hochuli.

Where is that broken record emoticon when we need it?

 

[Craig_MiamiFL]

Broncos D last year was one of the worst I've seen in the last 10-15 years.

Cutler has his faults, but that was a 4-5 win team w/o him last year.

 

[bcr8f]

As a QB, more often than not:

You win- you look better than you are. See Roethlisberger, Ben.

You lose- you look worse than you are. See Cutler, Jay.

It's a what have you done for me lately world, and unfortunately the last things Cutler has done are whining over and over about being involved in a trade rumor and losing a win and in scenario for the second time in his career (albeit his first one he was knocked out of the game).

He's not doing himself any favors by his behavior. Hell, Wayne Gretzky and Joe Montana were traded.

That's assuming people watching aren't as professional as we are. That only applies to casual fans.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

As a QB, more often than not:

You win- you look better than you are. See Roethlisberger, Ben.

You lose- you look worse than you are. See Cutler, Jay.

It's a what have you done for me lately world, and unfortunately the last things Cutler has done are whining over and over about being involved in a trade rumor and losing a win and in scenario for the second time in his career (albeit his first one he was knocked out of the game).

He's not doing himself any favors by his behavior. Hell, Wayne Gretzky and Joe Montana were traded.

That's assuming people watching aren't as professional as we are. That only applies to casual fans.

It really, really doesn't.See Roethlisberger, Ben.

 

[loose circuits]

i've given up on trying to defend him and Forte, the hate on this board is just too great and you won't be able convince anyone otherwise. THey'll have to prove it on the field

I am a Patriots fan living in the heart of Brocnco's country and I can't tell you how many times I've come in on Monday/Tuesday mornings and heard " what the *&%^ is Cutler thinking throwing the ball into double coverage time and again. When he doesn't focus on one receiver and spreads the ball around he is generally spot on. However, he doesn't seem to do it enough to satisfy many of the Bronco's fans I work with. That is not my biased opinion but that of informed fans who have been following this team for a number of years.Cutler has been passed by Phillip Rivers as the best QB in that division.

it will only be his 3rd full season starting. I think that can improve with time

 

[Neil Beaufort Zod]

Here's the truth about the record last season. The Broncos' defense was so horrible and running game so sporadic... this team would have been a 2-14 or 3-13 team without Cutler.

Not sure they would have been that bad, but without Cutler, they probably don't win the games against SD, NO, Cleveland, Atlanta and the Jets.

Didn't Cutler really lose that game for them until the ref handed it back?

 

[Ghost Rider]

Here's the truth about the record last season. The Broncos' defense was so horrible and running game so sporadic... this team would have been a 2-14 or 3-13 team without Cutler.

Not sure they would have been that bad, but without Cutler, they probably don't win the games against SD, NO, Cleveland, Atlanta and the Jets.

Didn't Cutler really lose that game for them until the ref handed it back?

at the thought that the QB could be blamed for losing a game where his own defense gave up over 450 yards and 38 points.But I get it...to some, it doesn't matter that Denver's defense has sucked something awful since the middle of the '06 season. Cutler's record is 17-20, and he apparently is solely responsible for that record, so therefore, he isn't that good, even though the offense as a whole has performed very well under his tutelage.

 

[Tau837]

GhostRider, you seemed to take a different stance on QB winning & losing when discussing the Pro Bowl results last year:

Rivers was probably hurt by his team's record, as well as the fact that he is a bit of a punk who appears to be disliked by a lot of players and fans.

Well, IMO it would be wrong for anyone to vote for Cutler over Rivers based on record. If not for Hochuli, both teams would be 7-7 and the Chargers would be leading the division over Denver based on that game.And it's unfortunate if people didn't vote for him because they dislike him. He isn't a punk. As one example, Joey Porter is certainly worse, and he's starting.

Without getting into the fact that Denver could have still gotten the ball back had Hochuli made the correct call (2 timeouts left and 1:20 on the clock), the bottom line is that the Chargers are looked at as a team that has greatly underachieved this year, and like it or not, Rivers' chances suffered as a result of that. And he hasn't been that great to where he was impossible to leave off. I think he should have been 3rd choice behind Manning and Cutler (both of whom have carried their teams to winning records), but he wasn't a no-brainer selection to most, obviously. He should have been there over Favre, though; that much is obvious.