Cardinals WRs (1 Viewer)

[Maurile Tremblay]

As of 5/17/09, 100% of the FBG staffers have Fitzgerald ranked ahead of Boldin. (Including me.)

How confident should we be that we're right? A few trivia tidbits for you . . .

1. Anquan Boldin is the NFL's all-time leader in receiving yards per game, averaging 81.2. Fitzgerald is #3 on the list, averaging 78.6. (Jerry Rice is #6. If you're interested, the full list is here.)

2. Last season, Boldin and Fitzgerald finished #1 and #2 at WR in terms of fantasy points per game -- in that order.

3. Boldin missed four games last season, but in the 12 games he played, he averaged more targets, more receptions, more touchdowns, and (as we already said) more fantasy points than Fitzgerald.

Raise your hand if you're less convinced now that Fitz > Boldin than you were before you opened this thread.

 

[comfortably numb]

As of 5/17/09, 100% of the FBG staffers have Fitzgerald ranked ahead of Boldin. (Including me.)

How confident should we be that we're right? A few trivia tidbits for you . . .

1. In the history of the NFL, Anquan Boldin is the all-time leader averaging 81.2 receiving yards per game. Fitzgerald is #3 on the list, averaging 78.6. (If you're interested, Torry Holt is #2, Randy Moss #4, Marvin Harrison #5, Jerry Rice #6, Lance Alworth #7.)

2. Last season, Boldin and Fitzgerald finished #1 and #2 at WR in terms of fantasy points per game -- in that order.

3. Boldin missed four games last season, but in the 12 games he played, he averaged more targets, more receptions, more touchdowns, and of course more fantasy points than Fitzgerald.

Raise your hand if you're less convinced now that Fitz > Boldin than you were before you opened this thread.

All these numbers are nice..but when I see Fitz play, I see potential Jerry Rice, when I see Boldin play I see potential Tim Brown.One is a legend, the other is a great WR.

A couple of more stats....

Fitgerald has higher yards and TD in 1 season than Boldin has ever had

How many times has Fitzgerald had 10+ TD's in a season?......3

How about Boldin?......once, this year

Again, not knocking Boldin, I just think Fitz is far more superior in terms if talent, and eventually in production.

 

[FFCardsFan]

I love me some Boldin, but he is more prone to getting knicked up and missing a few games and he is also 3 years older. And after what Fitz did throughout the playoffs, how is Kurt not going to want to look at Fitz before Boldin? I understand what you are saying, but the fact that Boldin does tend to miss games here and there, and the way Fitz and Kurt emerged at the end of the year, would make it hard for me to put Boldin over Fitz. I wonder what the percentage was that when the Cards were in the redzone last year and they threw a lob to Fitz that he came down with it. I feel like every time they did that, he caught the ball, and that frankly is something that Boldin lacks. On a 4th and goal from the one, I would almost be tempted to say that the coaching staff probably had more trust in a fade to Fitz then any other play.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

As of 5/17/09, 100% of the FBG staffers have Fitzgerald ranked ahead of Boldin.

Oops. I have to take that back. Jeff Tefertiller has Boldin > Fitz.As for why I have Fitz > Boldin, it is mainly the red zone factor that comfortably numb and FFCardsFan mentioned.I have Boldin projected for slightly more targets than Fitzgerald, and also slightly more receptions per target. I've got Fitzgerald projected for more yards per reception and more touchdowns per touchdown. Overall, I've got Fitzgerald over Boldin by a fantasy score of 260 to 250. That's not a huge margin -- I have them bunched more closely together than most staffers do.

 

[mlball77]

Raise your hand if you're less convinced now that Fitz > Boldin than you were before you opened this thread.

 

[The Future Champs]

I'd stick with Fitz over Boldin, despite some good points. You gotta stick with the hot player, if the situations haven't changed.

 

[Gatorman]

MAurile> This is not the issue you think, and for the past few years people have taken Fitz a round or two before boldin, while us sharks have been grabbing boldin a round later and laughing our asses off.

The same holds true (but lower down) on those who took holmes over hines ward.

That being said, in both those cases, I think you see the reversal begin this year.

 

[renesauz]

I don't get why people would knock Boldin down "for injuries" Guy had to have his jaw wired up after oneof the most horrific collissions I've ever witnessed on a football field, and still returned and played well in a month.

They are very close, but Boldin is by far the better "deal" in fantasy terms.

 

[finito]

I don't get why people would knock Boldin down "for injuries" Guy had to have his jaw wired up after oneof the most horrific collissions I've ever witnessed on a football field, and still returned and played well in a month.

They are very close, but Boldin is by far the better "deal" in fantasy terms.

That wasn't his only injury, Boldin has a history of missing time (and missed time in the playoffs last year because of a hammy). Dunno whether he is "injury prone" but he seems to miss a few games here and there a lot.

 

[perry147]

Huge Boldin fan here and have been drafting him in later rounds for years with a great ROI.

Boldin is built like TO and is very hard to bring down after the catch.

 

[Chase Stuart]

As of 5/17/09, 100% of the FBG staffers have Fitzgerald ranked ahead of Boldin.

Oops. I have to take that back. Jeff Tefertiller has Boldin > Fitz.As for why I have Fitz > Boldin, it is mainly the red zone factor that comfortably numb and FFCardsFan mentioned.I have Boldin projected for slightly more targets than Fitzgerald, and also slightly more receptions per target. I've got Fitzgerald projected for more yards per reception and more touchdowns per touchdown. Overall, I've got Fitzgerald over Boldin by a fantasy score of 260 to 250. That's not a huge margin -- I have them bunched more closely together than most staffers do.

You raised some good points. Boldin seems to be very underrated every year in fantasy circles. But that's not new -- low YPR seem to be underrated every year (note: this may not be accurate).Do you have Boldin and Fitzgerald projected to play the same number of games?

 

[Sigmund Bloom]

It's kind of hard to put ANYONE ahead of Fitz after we saw him have the most dominant postseason by any wide receiver and one of the most dominant postseasons by any player in NFL history. I know it's not a good idea to expect trends from the playoffs to carry over to the next season, but I would think that the Cards & Warner will be that much more open to forcing the ball to Fitz in the red zone and throwing more jumpballs to him after he put the team on his back in the playoffs.

 

[JuSt CuZ]

I have Boldin in Both my Dynasty Leagues, He was on both my title teams that won me titles in my biggest league, I only say this because he has earned my respect as an elite WR and as one of my favorites.

With that being said, Fitz is the best Reciever in the league, BAR NONE, he was considered great and was arguably the #1 WR in every draft, now after his performance in the Post season which resulted in the greatest recieving performance in NFL postseason history, Statisticly, u cant argue, u cant its absolutly impossible to argue that he is not the best in the league, and to even suggest Boldin is better just because of his heart and great year last year....mind u he has only had 1 year with double digit TDs....well thats just insane!

Fitz>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Boldin, and its not even close!

 

[dgreen]

As for why I have Fitz > Boldin, it is mainly the red zone factor that comfortably numb and FFCardsFan mentioned.

I don't have the stats on where their TDs come from, but my memory is that Boldin gets his fair share of red zone work. They like to throw quick hitters to him behind the LOS and let him take it in. And he also seems to get targets on slants inside the 5 (like the one in the SB that was intercepted by Harrison). Over the last two seasons (mostly with Warner), Fitz has 22 TDs in 31 games and Boldin has 20 in 24 games. Going forward, how will red zone TD targets be affected by Beanie Wells and a possibly better running attack?Speaking of the last two years, I think that's where the Fitz>Boldin mindset comes from. Back-to-back 1400+ yard seasons for Fitz has vaulted him ahead. In the past two seasons, Fitz is at 91.6 yds/game while Boldin is at 78.8. Fitz should just now be hitting his prime while Boldin is probably nearing the end of his prime.

 

[dgreen]

I don't have the stats on where their TDs come from...

Oh, wait, they're at PFR. Here they are for the last two seasons.Fitz:11122255567711121820212838486278Boldin:223444555578810131320324479I don't see much support for favoring Fitz in the red zone. How do the targets look? Fitz has more "goalline" TDs, but isn't necessarily better in the red zone or inside the 10 or inside the 5. And, again, I wonder how Beanie Wells will affect this.

 

[Lott's Fingertip]

Let me preface my forthcoming comment by saying that they both are excellent WRs and that I really enjoy watching both of them play.

Now.... I think Boldin benefits from Fitz's presence. Yeah, I know Boldin had a monster rookie season, but I still believe it. I also think Fitz benefits from Boldin's presence, just to a lesser extent.

Put either one of them in another offense and either would have success, but I think Fitz would be better than Boldin.

A common issue with using game-to-game stats in football is small sample size... so take what I am about to post with the appropriate grain of salt:

Games that Boldin plays w/out Fitz

2006:

12/136/1

4/59

4/47

2007:

2/25

4 games, 22/267/1 = 5.5 catches for 67 yards and .25 TDs per game = 8.2 fantasy points/g

Games that Fitz plays w/out Boldin:

2005:

8/102

9/141/1

2007:

11/123

9/136/1

6/97

6/79/1

2008:

7/52/2

5/79/1

3/101/1

5/130/2

10 games, 69/1039/9 = 6.9 catches for 104 yards and .9 TDs per game = 15.8 fantasy points/g

Them both being on the same team, I would be happy with either for fantasy purposes. I would prefer Fitzgerald because I think he is a better bet to score TDs and has a better health track record, but Boldin a round or two later is obviously very good value as well.

 

[Sweet Love]

I don't get why people would knock Boldin down "for injuries" Guy had to have his jaw wired up after oneof the most horrific collissions I've ever witnessed on a football field, and still returned and played well in a month.

They are very close, but Boldin is by far the better "deal" in fantasy terms.

Boldin is an elite receiver who plays like a Chrebet...nothing to lose, run across the middle, say my Hail Mary, and hope the hit does not make SportsCenter. I love the way Boldin plays, but guys like Harrison, Wayne, Holt, Moss and Owens...and Fitz...Never put themselves in the position to take the punishment that Boldin takes. That may make Boldin the ultimate team guy, but it endangers your fantasy squad (I know, that sounded cake). The wheels are going to fall off this bus sooner rather than later, and while getting him in the Third Round is value, it is inevitable that he will have a career more like Herman Moore than Rod Smith.

 

[MDSkinner]

It's kind of hard to put ANYONE ahead of Fitz after we saw him have the most dominant postseason by any wide receiver and one of the most dominant postseasons by any player in NFL history. I know it's not a good idea to expect trends from the playoffs to carry over to the next season, but I would think that the Cards & Warner will be that much more open to forcing the ball to Fitz in the red zone and throwing more jumpballs to him after he put the team on his back in the playoffs.

This is the way I feel about it. I love Boldin and think he is a great player who still has a lot of really good years left in him...but the playoffs definitely has an impact on my feelings about how good Fitz is right now. The way he was able to just dominate those games, it is hard to not see him as better.Boldin is invariably a better deal, in terms of draft position. But Fitz seems to me to be the better player.

 

[ookook]

I am a Boldin fan since his rookie season. Love his play.

But I think as a WR he may have peaked. Fitz seems to improve every season.

So in seasons past I would wait and take Boldin. I think last season Fitz establsihed himself as more talented and still going.

With Warner at QB, I would have to see where Boldin starts falling to. Value may still be there. I am starting to think that picking BOTH might make sense.

 

[David Yudkin]

I posted several times over the past couple years that Boldin's numbers playing with Fitzgerald were slightly better than Fitz's. I haven't re-run the numbers, but that may be the case (but either way one is not leaps and bounds over the other).

I also have posted several times that I would rather draft Boldin over Fitz as usually Boldin can be had cheaper than Fitz. This year, Fitz has an ADP in the 1st vs Boldin in the early to mid 3rd. IMO, there's not really much difference between the two when Boldin is healthy . . . and that's the reason he goes a couple rounds later.

I also find it intersting that there are 5 or 6 threads about the Cardinals months before the season starts on Page One of the Shark Pool. Last year at this time, there were hardly any.

 

[ookook]

I posted several times over the past couple years that Boldin's numbers playing with Fitzgerald were slightly better than Fitz's. I haven't re-run the numbers, but that may be the case (but either way one is not leaps and bounds over the other).I also have posted several times that I would rather draft Boldin over Fitz as usually Boldin can be had cheaper than Fitz. This year, Fitz has an ADP in the 1st vs Boldin in the early to mid 3rd. IMO, there's not really much difference between the two when Boldin is healthy . . . and that's the reason he goes a couple rounds later.I also find it intersting that there are 5 or 6 threads about the Cardinals months before the season starts on Page One of the Shark Pool. Last year at this time, there were hardly any.

What is the split like for when Warner is QB vs. Leini? Does one favor Boldin over Fitz more or less?

 

[switz]

All these numbers are nice..but when I see Fitz play, I see potential Jerry Rice, when I see Boldin play I see potential Tim Brown.One is a legend, the other is a great WR.

They are two completely different types of WRs. We've seen what Boldin did without Fitz, and without a decent QB throwing to him - he dominated.Boldin is one of the most physically dominating WRs the game has ever seen, including T.O. If there's a knock on Boldin, it's that he's only finished a complete season for 40% of his career. But that should make his accomplishments even more impressive.While Fitz best season was last season with 1431 yards, in '05 Boldin put up 1402 yards in 14 games, that projects out to 1602 yards. Frankly, one could easily argue that ARI has the best two WRs in the game right now. They are both under 30, and if they continue to play at a high level they will probably both make the HOF.Interestingly neither has led the league in receptions or receiving yards during their career, but there is not a single player who started playing in the same season or after that is higher than either of them on the all time WR charts. In fact, there's not another WR who started playing around the same time even close. The players above all starter at least 2 years earlier than Boldin, 3 years earlier than Fitz.

 

[LHUCKS]

Fitz gets the nod because he's a better endzone threat...and less of an injury risk.

 

[RudeDog]

I think that Boldin argument might have been valid up to the end of last season. It appears that Fitz has taken major steps (pardon the pun) in learning how to maximize his YAC yards.

I see his per reception totals continuing to rise as he now no longer just catches and falls, but looks to extend each reception with as many yards as he can get. Fitz is the correct pick this year.

 

[switz]

Now.... I think Boldin benefits from Fitz's presence.

I see you already acknowledged Boldin's rookie season, then threw it out since it completely proves your theory wrong.You also threw out Fitz' rookie season where he played 6 games without Boldin.Cherry picking stats much?

 

[MTskibum]

Larry Fitzgerald, MVP of Sunday's Pro Bowl, has been playing with a broken left thumb and torn cartilage in his left hand between his middle and ring fingers.

Fitzgerald used the playoffs to gain a reputation as having the best hands in the league. That he accomplished the best playoff run in NFL history while playing through a mangled hand is mind-boggling. He'll use the offseason to get back to full health, but it clearly hasn't affected his production.

http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpag...NFL&id=1661Give me fitz.

 

[switz]

Speaking of the last two years, I think that's where the Fitz>Boldin mindset comes from. Back-to-back 1400+ yard seasons for Fitz has vaulted him ahead. In the past two seasons, Fitz is at 91.6 yds/game while Boldin is at 78.8. Fitz should just now be hitting his prime while Boldin is probably nearing the end of his prime.

They were drafted a year apart from each other... And Boldin has only played 4 more games than Fitz (remarkable he's that much ahead of him in overall stats for only 4 games difference). Boldin is 28, right in the middle of a WRs prime. Fitz I agree "age wise" is just entering his prime. Years played though, they are very close to each other, so I think it's a bad argument to say Boldin is nearing the end of his prime.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

MAurile> This is not the issue you think, and for the past few years people have taken Fitz a round or two before boldin, while us sharks have been grabbing boldin a round later and laughing our asses off.

Fitzgerlad has 40 more catches and a THOUSAND more yards receiving (as well as more TDs) over the last two years than Boldin did.1,000 is not a trivial number.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

As of 5/17/09, 100% of the FBG staffers have Fitzgerald ranked ahead of Boldin. (Including me.)

How confident should we be that we're right? A few trivia tidbits for you . . .

1. Anquan Boldin is the NFL's all-time leader in receiving yards per game, averaging 81.2. Fitzgerald is #3 on the list, averaging 78.6. (Jerry Rice is #6. If you're interested, the full list is here.)

2. Last season, Boldin and Fitzgerald finished #1 and #2 at WR in terms of fantasy points per game -- in that order.

3. Boldin missed four games last season, but in the 12 games he played, he averaged more targets, more receptions, more touchdowns, and (as we already said) more fantasy points than Fitzgerald.

Raise your hand if you're less convinced now that Fitz > Boldin than you were before you opened this thread.

You left a couple stats out.Percentage of games missed:

Boldin: 16%

Fitz: 4%

Also, as far as Boldin averaging more yards per game than Fitz for their careers, are you going to draft Brett Favre over Matt Ryan this year? Because Favre averages way more yards and touchdowns per game for his career than Ryan does. Obviously that's an extreme example, but Fitz's yards per game numbers are way down because he wasn't as involved his rookie year half a decade ago. The last two years Fitz has averaged 92 yards per game compared to Boldin's 78. I could care less what they were doing 5-6 years ago when making my projections for this year.

Lastly, if I were to tell you right now that an Arizona WR was going to go for 1700 yards and 20 TDs this year, who would you guess it was? Even at 1400+ yards and 10+ TDs Fitz is just tapping into his potential, he has an upside that Boldin can't dream of.

I'm not trying to debate that Fitz is better value where he is drafted than Boldin, but your comparison was Boldin vs. Fitz straight up, to which I see absolutely no argument that could be made for Boldin. The BEST CASE argument is that Boldin could possibly be AS GOOD if he stays healthy.

 

[Lott's Fingertip]

Now.... I think Boldin benefits from Fitz's presence.

I see you already acknowledged Boldin's rookie season, then threw it out since it completely proves your theory wrong.You also threw out Fitz' rookie season where he played 6 games without Boldin.Cherry picking stats much?

I don't cherry pick stats. I don't use rookie WRs' rookie seasons for these kinds of analyses. It is too rare for a rookie WR to show enough to be able to use those stats in a predictive way. So, IMO, Fitz's rookie year was not indicative of what he is capable of doing NOW. And I pointed out that Fitz benefits from Boldin's presence as well. I also prefaced my stats with

A common issue with using game-to-game stats in football is small sample size... so take what I am about to post with the appropriate grain of salt

Boldin is one of those rare exceptions that had a monster rookie season.The stats I posted are anecdotal, not predictive. I am not making the argument that Boldin is Peerless price before leaving Buffalo. Boldin will be EXCELLENT wherever he goes. Just as Fitzgerald would be EXCELLENT if he left Arizona. I just think Fitz is better than Boldin at this point. That is not in the least a knock on Boldin.

 

[kremenull]

As of 5/17/09, 100% of the FBG staffers have Fitzgerald ranked ahead of Boldin. (Including me.)

How confident should we be that we're right? A few trivia tidbits for you . . .

1. Anquan Boldin is the NFL's all-time leader in receiving yards per game, averaging 81.2. Fitzgerald is #3 on the list, averaging 78.6. (Jerry Rice is #6. If you're interested, the full list is here.)

2. Last season, Boldin and Fitzgerald finished #1 and #2 at WR in terms of fantasy points per game -- in that order.

3. Boldin missed four games last season, but in the 12 games he played, he averaged more targets, more receptions, more touchdowns, and (as we already said) more fantasy points than Fitzgerald.

Raise your hand if you're less convinced now that Fitz > Boldin than you were before you opened this thread.

uhhhhh....I watched the playoffs last year......Fitz >>> Boldin......forget fantasy football, I'm talking better WR, PERIOD!...Fitz has much greater impact and game-changing ability. Defenses gameplan for Fitz, not for Boldin

 

[comfortably numb]

All these numbers are nice..but when I see Fitz play, I see potential Jerry Rice, when I see Boldin play I see potential Tim Brown.One is a legend, the other is a great WR.

They are two completely different types of WRs. We've seen what Boldin did without Fitz, and without a decent QB throwing to him - he dominated.Boldin is one of the most physically dominating WRs the game has ever seen, including T.O. If there's a knock on Boldin, it's that he's only finished a complete season for 40% of his career. But that should make his accomplishments even more impressive.While Fitz best season was last season with 1431 yards, in '05 Boldin put up 1402 yards in 14 games, that projects out to 1602 yards. Frankly, one could easily argue that ARI has the best two WRs in the game right now. They are both under 30, and if they continue to play at a high level they will probably both make the HOF.Interestingly neither has led the league in receptions or receiving yards during their career, but there is not a single player who started playing in the same season or after that is higher than either of them on the all time WR charts. In fact, there's not another WR who started playing around the same time even close. The players above all starter at least 2 years earlier than Boldin, 3 years earlier than Fitz.

I know they are different types of WR's. I just still think Fitz has the potential to be an listed up there with Rice as I see Rice on his own pedestal.Boldin has the potential to be listed with many of the other all time great WR's

 

[Sebowski]

As of 5/17/09, 100% of the FBG staffers have Fitzgerald ranked ahead of Boldin. (Including me.)

How confident should we be that we're right? A few trivia tidbits for you . . .

1. Anquan Boldin is the NFL's all-time leader in receiving yards per game, averaging 81.2. Fitzgerald is #3 on the list, averaging 78.6. (Jerry Rice is #6. If you're interested, the full list is here.)

2. Last season, Boldin and Fitzgerald finished #1 and #2 at WR in terms of fantasy points per game -- in that order.

3. Boldin missed four games last season, but in the 12 games he played, he averaged more targets, more receptions, more touchdowns, and (as we already said) more fantasy points than Fitzgerald.

Raise your hand if you're less convinced now that Fitz > Boldin than you were before you opened this thread.

You left a couple stats out.Percentage of games missed:

Boldin: 16%

Fitz: 4%

Also, as far as Boldin averaging more yards per game than Fitz for their careers, are you going to draft Brett Favre over Matt Ryan this year? Because Favre averages way more yards and touchdowns per game for his career than Ryan does. Obviously that's an extreme example, but Fitz's yards per game numbers are way down because he wasn't as involved his rookie year half a decade ago. The last two years Fitz has averaged 92 yards per game compared to Boldin's 78. I could care less what they were doing 5-6 years ago when making my projections for this year.



Lastly, if I were to tell you right now that an Arizona WR was going to go for 1700 yards and 20 TDs this year, who would you guess it was? Even at 1400+ yards and 10+ TDs Fitz is just tapping into his potential, he has an upside that Boldin can't dream of.

I'm not trying to debate that Fitz is better value where he is drafted than Boldin, but your comparison was Boldin vs. Fitz straight up, to which I see absolutely no argument that could be made for Boldin. The BEST CASE argument is that Boldin could possibly be AS GOOD if he stays healthy.

I wouldn't rule Boldin out for that.

 

[~NEMESIS~]

I thought this one interesting....

1st 5 years of their respective careers

Jerry Rice 76g (63 started) - 346rec - 6364yds - 18.3ypc - 66tds - 83.7ypg

Larry Fitzgerald 76g (76 started) - 426rec - 5975yds - 14.0ypc - 46tds - 78.6ypg

Anquan Boldin 68g (65 started) - 413rec - 5458yds - 13.2ypc - 29tds - 80.2ypg

I think this shows just how dominating J. Rice was. He started fewer games & had less catches due to that. He had more yards and more tds while also averaging more yards per game over first 5 years than both Fitz and Boldin. When I think about how good Fitz and Boldin have been it just makes me apprecaite Rice that much more. He was flat out ridiculous.

When I compare Fitz and Boldins stats, what I see is a possesion WR and a big play WR. Both I think can be used as either, but over their first 5 years I think its clear that Boldin is more of a possesion guy with the lower ypc & lower tds. Fitz with more catches, more yards, and more Tds is obvious big play guy.

Tough to go wrong with either guy. In the end though, I will take the guy who is more likely to score and put up the big game.

And thats Fitzgerald. Oh, and it doesn't hurt that Fitzgerald, to me, is clearly the most talented WR of the two as well.

 

[css2373]

One point that I would add is how defenses will be playing the Cards this season.

They have 2 young RB's and a QB who has the pot'l of taking sacks, fumbling, missing games, and is a little long in the tooth. They play a number of teams this year that can generate pressure with their front 4, allowing the secondary to focus on the hot WR which right now is Fitz. If the Cards' o-line has trouble, bet the house the D coordinators bring a ton of pressure to get to Warner before he can get the ball up the field. Before the playoffs, this strategy worked out in Boldin's favor, but we all saw Fitz get the opportunity to run the hot routes in the playoffs and super bowl.

IF everything stays the same, Fitz will be going end of round 1, beginning of round 2. Boldin probably in the 3rd to 5th range. Different products for different prices.