Career advice - AKA asking for a raise (1 Viewer)

[snogger]

Plenty of managers here so I am hoping you all can help present a Salary increase request with my manager.

I have 10+ years of Experience in SharePoint and Office365 and, as I've outlined in the email below, know I am WAY under paid.
Really, it comes down to the fact that after 10 years working here I've never asked for a raise and been "happy" with the 2-4% yearly increases..

That "happy with what I have" feeling changed over the weekend when a friend let me know of an opening where he works that pays 20-25k more per year then what I am currently making.
I decided to check Glassdoor and other sites to see if that was an abnormal salary, but found out that the going rate for my experience was at least that... 

I want to meet with my Manager to discuss it, but thought a "fair warning" ahead of time would be best, rather then "cold call".. Looking for input on email I plan to send to him.
------------------------------------------------------------
Subject - Topic for our One-on-One meeting this week

Prior to my transition from Manager's name team to yours, he and I discussed meeting over the summer to discuss my salary.
I’ve known for some time that my salary was below what my experience in O365/SharePoint is worth.  ( help on wording??? ... ???Market value for someone with my experience??)
But, I enjoy working for Company name and the challenges that I am involved in.
When recruiters have contacted me I’ve always responded with “I am not currently looking for other Career Opportunities”.

I bring this up because over the weekend, a friend contacted me to let me know that a “Sr. SharePoint Administrator/Developer” position had opened where he worked, and the expected Salary range is $20-25k more per year then my current salary.

We all know money isn’t everything.
At the same time, when you see such a large discrepancy between my salary and what others are making, with less experience, it does make you curious.
I am hoping that during our One-on-One meeting this week we can discuss a salary increase.
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[Ron Swanson]

What % of your current salary is a 20-25% increase? What does entry-level look like and how long does it take someone to get up to speed?

Any potential to offer to take on more duties as part of a negotiation?  Willing to do so?

 

[Jaysus]

I don't know how I feel about providing your manager with that much information ahead of time.  I think I would prefer to ask if your manager can add "career planning" (or something like that) as a discussion point for your one-on-one.

ETA: I think the time would be better spent updating your resume than drafting an email

 

[kutta]

I would not send the e-mail. It's better to just set up a meeting and go talk to your manager. First of all, any e-mail will be circulated to upper management and nitpicked. You really don't want to put anything in writing that may be taken the wrong way (i.e. all it takes is one person to think you have one foot out the door and suddenly your job is in jeapordy). 

I think you should just ask for a meeting and pretty much informally talk to him just like you did in the mail above. Explain you enjoy your job, but that you do believe you are underpaid. Instead of talking about a friend, you may want to bring some hard evidence (glassdoor, etc.). 

I know when people have come in and made a good case to me, I've usually given it to them.

 

[Brony]

I would be really careful putting anything in email.  If you choose to do so, assume that every word could be scrutinized against you somehow. 

I would ask if they've benchmarked your salary and ask where your current salary stands against the market rate.  Not much harm asking that if you're confident that you are in the lower range.  Try to keep it as impersonal as possible. 

 

[AAABatteries]

Don't send that email - it will give him time to formulate his best worded "No".  Have this conversation in person and put nothing in writing.

 

[Angry Beavers]

As others have said, nothing in writing other than wanting a meeting to discuss career development or asking that career development is part of the agenda.

Go with the hard evidence - that you were considering applying a position that pays considerably more  and what you found on glassdoor.

One thing to consider - two equal salaries are not equal when one considers benefits - what are your benefits now and what might they be elsewhere?  If you have very good benefits now.. such as full employer paid healthcare, 9% employer funded 401K etc what looks like a big discrepancy might not be one.. just something to consider. 

Good Luck. 

 

[tjnc09]

ETA: I think the time would be better spent updating your resume than drafting an email

I agree with this.  What's the chance his employer actually gives him the 20-25% raise?  Even if they offer 10%, he will still be resentful he's underpaid.  Most companies don't care about rewarding their long term employees unless they have another offer in hand.

 

[snogger]

What % of your current salary is a 20-25% increase? What does entry-level look like and how long does it take someone to get up to speed?

Any potential to offer to take on more duties as part of a negotiation?  Willing to do so?

The 20 to $25,000 increase is around 25% increase from my current salary.. Back in May I transitioned from being a SharePoint Administrator to a SharePoint/O365 Solution Architect taking on a lot more responsibilities.

The person I have been reporting to since May has said more then once that I have to much on my plate and is working with other managers to find others to do some of the work. So, that is already a "win"

 

[snogger]

I don't know how I feel about providing your manager with that much information ahead of time.  I think I would prefer to ask if your manager can add "career planning" (or something like that) as a discussion point for your one-on-one.

ETA: I think the time would be better spent updating your resume than drafting an email

Already updated my resume and filled out the required information for that other position. Last thing I wanted to do was not apply and then find out my current company offers "crap".. They are only accepting applications until November 2nd.

Career planning has already been covered last April when I "interviewed" to transition into my new role. My One-on-one with him is every Friday.. Do you recommend I send a quick email beforehand just stating that I'd like to discuss my salary.. or ????

 

[snogger]

I would not send the e-mail. It's better to just set up a meeting and go talk to your manager. First of all, any e-mail will be circulated to upper management and nitpicked. You really don't want to put anything in writing that may be taken the wrong way (i.e. all it takes is one person to think you have one foot out the door and suddenly your job is in jeapordy). 

I think you should just ask for a meeting and pretty much informally talk to him just like you did in the mail above. Explain you enjoy your job, but that you do believe you are underpaid. Instead of talking about a friend, you may want to bring some hard evidence (glassdoor, etc.). 

I know when people have come in and made a good case to me, I've usually given it to them.

Thanks.... I should mention he is "upper management" .. There is the CEO, then the CIO, then  who I report to. I've also already worked and completed multiple projects for the CIO so he knows of my work

I mentioned above that I have One-on-One meetings with him every Friday so am wondering if not the full details, do you think I at least let him know in advance of that meeting that I'd like to discuss my salary?

 

[snogger]

As others have said, nothing in writing other than wanting a meeting to discuss career development or asking that career development is part of the agenda.

Go with the hard evidence - that you were considering applying a position that pays considerably more  and what you found on glassdoor.

One thing to consider - two equal salaries are not equal when one considers benefits - what are your benefits now and what might they be elsewhere?  If you have very good benefits now.. such as full employer paid healthcare, 9% employer funded 401K etc what looks like a big discrepancy might not be one.. just something to consider. 

Good Luck. 

Well, the open position has MUCH better benefits as it is with a State government (yea, I'd become one of the Tax burdens.. but I don't live in that state so... )

Health Benefits alone would save my family hundreds of dollars a month.. plus pension, and other benefits... 

I work Full-time from home and even though the site says "telecommuting opportunties" I know, at least to start, I'd have to give up that benefit...

I planned on "dumbing down" the job listing, as well as what glassdoor shows as "what your worth" for this area. I should also note, he is located in Georgia, and I'm in western Wisconsin so, as always, our one-on-one is Skype.

 

[snogger]

I agree with this.  What's the chance his employer actually gives him the 20-25% raise?  Even if they offer 10%, he will still be resentful he's underpaid.  Most companies don't care about rewarding their long term employees unless they have another offer in hand.

as I just posted above, I wasn't going to bypass at least applying for that open position as I only have until November 2nd to apply and the chances of getting a significant raise before that date are about .1%

If it comes down to getting called in for an interview before a raise is offered I will do so.. At this point passing up on a $25,000 raise + better benefits would be something I'd regret for years if they don't come close to matching it.

 

[Ron Swanson]

The 20 to $25,000 increase is around 25% increase from my current salary.. Back in May I transitioned from being a SharePoint Administrator to a SharePoint/O365 Solution Architect taking on a lot more responsibilities.

The person I have been reporting to since May has said more then once that I have to much on my plate and is working with other managers to find others to do some of the work. So, that is already a "win"

That's a big wack, but potentially achievable, especially considering you have already taken a promotion with no raise if I'm reading your response correctly.  I agree with the other guys that you don't send the e-mail and you start this up as a casual conversation. 

 

[Johnny Rock]

Already updated my resume and filled out the required information for that other position. Last thing I wanted to do was not apply and then find out my current company offers "crap".. They are only accepting applications until November 2nd.

Career planning has already been covered last April when I "interviewed" to transition into my new role. My One-on-one with him is every Friday.. Do you recommend I send a quick email beforehnad just stating that I'd like to discuss my salary.. or ????

I would wait to talk to the current employer until you have an offer in hand from the new company, including all the benefits being known. Then compare apples to apples so you know where you stand should you then intend to renegotiate with your current employer. GL. 

 

[flapgreen]

You'll probably be fired shortly after. 

 

[snogger]

I would wait to talk to the current employer until you have an offer in hand from the new company, including all the benefits being known. Then compare apples to apples so you know where you stand should you then intend to renegotiate with your current employer. GL. 

I know I shouldn't but I feel "guilty" playing that game.. Would rather give them an opportunity to offer something, rather then them that I have a job offer..

truth is, I've had other offers of 40k+ more then I make now from multiple consulting organizations (full time with benefits) .. I've been reluctant to go back into that as you are only on short term projects(3 to 12 months) and could end up with a hour+ commute... but if my current company "low balls" me I could probably get hired by one of them by next week if push came to shove. 

 

[snogger]

You'll probably be fired shortly after. 

Might be the push I need.. Not to seem to full of myself  but..

I have recruiters contacting me weekly due to my experience, so I am 99.9% sure I could get hired within days if God forbid that happened

 

[Johnny Rock]

I know I shouldn't but I feel "guilty" playing that game.. Would rather give them an opportunity to offer something, rather then them that I have a job offer..

truth is, I've had other offers of 40k+ more then I make now from multiple consulting organizations (full time with benefits) .. I've been reluctant to go back into that as you are only on short term projects(3 to 12 months) and could end up with a hour+ commute... but if my current company "low balls" me I could probably get hired by one of them by next week if push came to shove. 

You don’t have to tell them you have an offer unless you want to. But you’ll have much more info on what you’re worth if you go through the interview process first than if you go off hearsay. 

If you’re in that much demand then no risk in doing it your way too. GL. 

 

[snogger]

You don’t have to tell them you have an offer unless you want to. But you’ll have much more info on what you’re worth if you go through the interview process first than if you go off hearsay. 

If you’re in that much demand then no risk in doing it your way too. GL. 

 

[snogger]

One of the other things weighing on me lately is that I turned 50 last December.. As much as I keep myself up to date on the latest in the IT world, there is always that question running around asking.. At what age do employers think.. to old to hire and learn our ways?.

So I think about.. is the current company a place I could see myself at for the next 15 to 18 years.. and if not, do I look for a company to retire with, or make as much  as I can now(consultant)and worry about later, later?

 

[shuke]

Don't send email.

Don't bring up anecdotal evidence from your friend.  Get real data from salary, glassdoor, etc. and look for salary ranges for other open positions in your region.

Unfortunately, everyone knows that long term employees don't hold the bargaining chip in these types of conversations.  

You may have to have an offer in hand to get them to make a large bump.

 

[Johnny Rock]

As an employer I consider 50+ to be a huge asset depending on the position.

If you’ve been underpaid for a good number of years that’s money you won’t get back and it impacted the compounding percentage raises. All things considered, if everything else is similar including French benefits ? and you like the potential new boss/company, if you can get a huge raise you take it. Should help move the retirement along faster.

 

[snogger]

Don't send email.

Don't bring up anecdotal evidence from your friend.  Get real data from salary, glassdoor, etc. and look for salary ranges for other open positions in your region.

Unfortunately, everyone knows that long term employees don't hold the bargaining chip in these types of conversations.  

You may have to have an offer in hand to get them to make a large bump.

Once he sent me the info I went to the job site and applied to the position.
So have the Information regarding the position and pay.
They are looking for "at least 5 years of experience" so got that covered, and everything else they list as "requirements" I have covered and more.
So it isn't like it is a job listing for something I'm not qualified for, so it should be "easy" evidence to show that a raise is justified.

I've also reviewed other positions in my area from Indeed, Glassdoor, LinkedIn etc. and the one I applied for is about in the middle.. Some list starting salary slightly lower, and some list starting salary's quite a bit higher..

 

[snogger]

As an employer I consider 50+ to be a huge asset depending on the position.

If you’ve been underpaid for a good number of years that’s money you won’t get back and it impacted the compounding percentage raises. All things considered, if everything else is similar including French benefits ? and you like the potential new boss/company, if you can get a huge raise you take it. Should help move the retirement along faster.

Thanks on the 50+ being an asset.. so, what about when they reach 60?

Other then the fact I'd have to give up the comforts of working from home like I have for the past 2 years, the benefits being offered are above what I have.
Costs for Health Benefits for my family would be cut in half( a couple hundred per month) with lower deductibles and they have a Pension plan.
$25k a year bump, plus another $2500+ savings in Health costs, plus Pension..

Man.. I'm talking myself into REALLY thinking of moving on if I get an interview/offer.

I think, with the help of those here, I've decided to wait and see what happens next week.
I'd hate to go to the person I report to this week, get a salary increase, only to find out this opportunity was there for the taking and I missed it.

 

[NeverEnough]

I'll be putting together hard facts on why I should get a raise soon too & I rully expect my POS boss to not give me a penny. Also would not surprise me if I am then fired, but I hate the ahole anyway so...

You have to go in with hard evidence on what you've done for the company that won't be easy to replace, revenue you've brought in, client relationships, etc...

 

[SWC]

whatever happens i wish you the best of luck and hope you get a raise take that to the bank brohan 

 

[Hawkeye21]

We live in a time where the employee has a great deal of power over a lot of businesses.  There seems to be more jobs than people willing to work them now and businesses are fighting over qualified people.  We have been struggling to find good mechanics and have other businesses trying to steal away our best ones.  We've had to give out a few significant raises in order to keep our best people here.  What really makes it hard is my business is struggling a lot more than the rest of the business world since we deal in the Ag industry.  Farmers are struggling mightily and we don't have as much cash flow as we would like.  Times have been somewhat tough for the farm industry during these so-called "booming" economic times.

 

[snogger]

whatever happens i wish you the best of luck and hope you get a raise take that to the bank brohan 

 

[snogger]

I'll be putting together hard facts on why I should get a raise soon too & I rully expect my POS boss to not give me a penny. Also would not surprise me if I am then fired, but I hate the ahole anyway so...

You have to go in with hard evidence on what you've done for the company that won't be easy to replace, revenue you've brought in, client relationships, etc...

Oh, I have plenty of that.. Over the past year I've automated multiple business process for HR, Legal and IT using forms and workflows.

Not to mention that for the past 6 months I've been the sole person responsible for configuring a new Meeting Room booking solution that is about to be deployed to all 19,000+ employees around the world.

 

[guru_007]

Other then the fact I'd have to give up the comforts of working from home like I have for the past 2 years, the benefits being offered are above what I have.
Costs for Health Benefits for my family would be cut in half( a couple hundred per month) with lower deductibles and they have a Pension plan.
$25k a year bump, plus another $2500+ savings in Health costs, plus Pension..

Man.. I'm talking myself into REALLY thinking of moving on if I get an interview/offer.

What you need to do is really put a pen to paper here and note all of the perks/benefits of your current position.  

Then you need to figure out what you would need to move to a new job.

My wife has been in nearly an identical position the past 4-5 years now.  She is paid well, but she certainly could be making 25-40% more money.  She is recruited actively and I have tried to push her into looking for other situations as it would speed up our retirement age if we made more money now.

She is able to work from home 2-3 days per week.  She has little to no travel required at her current position so she is home every night.  Her benefits are decent.  But the main detriment to her 'jumping ship' is she is extremely comfortable where she is at, and has pretty full autonomy as to what she does (she doesn't have a boss that micromanages her).  It's been difficult for her to put a price on what it would take for her to leave, but she is getting her first raise this month in 3 years.  If it's the normal 3-5%, I have a feeling she will start looking.

Truth be told, the only way your current company is going to give you a substantial raise is probably a) if you take on more responsibilities or b) you have an offer in hand from someplace else and they don't think they can ably replace you without paying someone else more than you are asking.  

If it were me, I'd be looking for something else right away.  Tell a recruiter that you would be willing to take interview as $XXX salary requirement.  If you get calls back from your recruiter, then speak to your manager and ask but have a number mind.  Say something to the effect of "Hey, I really like working here a lot.  i've been here x years.  But for the past few years I feel like I've been quite a bit underpaid to my current skills and responsibilities.  I would like to review my salary as soon as possible to get this more inline.  If that's not something you can do, I appreciate your time".  that will pretty much put the bug in their ear that you are looking for something more than a yearly bump and/or you may be looking around, without threatening to leave.  That way your company can come back and say he snogger, you have done a great job here and you're right.  There is a bit of room in the budget and we will offer you 15% more.  If you need 25% to stay, simply say that.  If they balk, well, c'est la vie, you know where you stand.  But I'd definitely be proactive to seeing what is actually out there.

 

[NeverEnough]

Truth be told, the only way your current company is going to give you a substantial raise is probably a) if you take on more responsibilities or b) you have an offer in hand from someplace else and they don't think they can ably replace you without paying someone else more than you are asking. 

Love how companies think like this. We underpay you for what you do for us so far, but we will only up your pay if we can further take advantage of you by making you do more &, in turn, continuing to underpay you...

 

[cheese]

It’s normal to feel “guilty” and uncomfortable asking for what you want. It’s also normal to sack up and do it. The company is not going to just randomly offer you a big raise out of the blue.  For all you know this might be an easy yes for them. Ask for what you want and see what happens and go from there. 

 

[snogger]

What you need to do is really put a pen to paper here and note all of the perks/benefits of your current position.  

Then you need to figure out what you would need to move to a new job.

My wife has been in nearly an identical position the past 4-5 years now.  She is paid well, but she certainly could be making 25-40% more money.  She is recruited actively and I have tried to push her into looking for other situations as it would speed up our retirement age if we made more money now.

She is able to work from home 2-3 days per week.  She has little to no travel required at her current position so she is home every night.  Her benefits are decent.  But the main detriment to her 'jumping ship' is she is extremely comfortable where she is at, and has pretty full autonomy as to what she does (she doesn't have a boss that micromanages her).  It's been difficult for her to put a price on what it would take for her to leave, but she is getting her first raise this month in 3 years.  If it's the normal 3-5%, I have a feeling she will start looking.

Truth be told, the only way your current company is going to give you a substantial raise is probably a) if you take on more responsibilities or b) you have an offer in hand from someplace else and they don't think they can ably replace you without paying someone else more than you are asking.  

If it were me, I'd be looking for something else right away.  Tell a recruiter that you would be willing to take interview as $XXX salary requirement.  If you get calls back from your recruiter, then speak to your manager and ask but have a number mind.  Say something to the effect of "Hey, I really like working here a lot.  i've been here x years.  But for the past few years I feel like I've been quite a bit underpaid to my current skills and responsibilities.  I would like to review my salary as soon as possible to get this more inline.  If that's not something you can do, I appreciate your time".  that will pretty much put the bug in their ear that you are looking for something more than a yearly bump and/or you may be looking around, without threatening to leave.  That way your company can come back and say he snogger, you have done a great job here and you're right.  There is a bit of room in the budget and we will offer you 15% more.  If you need 25% to stay, simply say that.  If they balk, well, c'est la vie, you know where you stand.  But I'd definitely be proactive to seeing what is actually out there.

Yea, as I mentioned above I'm going to wait until next week to see if I hear back about this opportunity.. If they call to setup an interview I think at this point I will do so as it would help as a deciding factor. I can ask the other questions like Flexible Schedule, Telecommuting options, etc.

If I go in and don't like the location, people, etc. then I will still ask for a raise stating the facts, just won't mention this particular job.
On the other hand....  if I like the situation enough,  I will wait to see if they make me an offer and then

 

[kutta]

Thanks.... I should mention he is "upper management" .. There is the CEO, then the CIO, then  who I report to. I've also already worked and completed multiple projects for the CIO so he knows of my work

I mentioned above that I have One-on-One meetings with him every Friday so am wondering if not the full details, do you think I at least let him know in advance of that meeting that I'd like to discuss my salary?

I still don’t think there’s any need to give him advanced warning through email. You’ll make a better case face to face, and not give him time to formulate a “no” response without hearing you out.

 

[snogger]

It’s normal to feel “guilty” and uncomfortable asking for what you want. It’s also normal to sack up and do it. The company is not going to just randomly offer you a big raise out of the blue.  For all you know this might be an easy yes for them. Ask for what you want and see what happens and go from there. 

   Asking for the raise doesn't leave me feeling guilty as I know I deserve it.. It is however uncomfortable.. I think some of that is "If they say no, am I ready to walk??" ..
Up until now I thought I was under paid but didn't know by how much as I never looked.... Seeing this opportunity, and taking a look at the average salary in this area for what I do, is taking away that "uncomfortable" feeling.

Getting an interview/Offer would take that feeling completely away ..

 

[guru_007]

Love how companies think like this. We underpay you for what you do for us so far, but we will only up your pay if we can further take advantage of you by making you do more &, in turn, continuing to underpay you...

This is not necessarily the case.  What the employee PERCEIVES as being underpaid, may just be what the company has budgeted for that department or position, etc...

I have three machine operators, with roughly the same amount of experience.  They are not paid the same.  If they want to look around and see what this industry standard is for a machine operator with their experience, go for it.  If operator B asks for a 30% raise because other companies are paying higher, it is on the company to decide then what is in their best interests.  Give the raise, hire someone new, etc...  Is the company not within it's rights to do what they see fit to make a profit?  It's on the employee to do what's best for them.  it's on the employer to do what's best for the organization.  All you hear is one side of the story.  

 

[snogger]

Thanks.... I should mention he is "upper management" .. There is the CEO, then the CIO, then  who I report to. I've also already worked and completed multiple projects for the CIO so he knows of my work

I mentioned above that I have One-on-One meetings with him every Friday so am wondering if not the full details, do you think I at least let him know in advance of that meeting that I'd like to discuss my salary?

I still don’t think there’s any need to give him advanced warning through email. You’ll make a better case face to face, and not give him time to formulate a “no” response without hearing you out.

  Thanks to everyone's input on this matter I've definitely come around to waiting until next week to see if I hear back about that other opportunity.

Then will just use our weekly Friday One-on-One Meeting next week to bring up the salary discussion.

 

[NeverEnough]

This is not necessarily the case.  What the employee PERCEIVES as being underpaid, may just be what the company has budgeted for that department or position, etc...

I have three machine operators, with roughly the same amount of experience.  They are not paid the same.  If they want to look around and see what this industry standard is for a machine operator with their experience, go for it.  If operator B asks for a 30% raise because other companies are paying higher, it is on the company to decide then what is in their best interests.  Give the raise, hire someone new, etc...  Is the company not within it's rights to do what they see fit to make a profit?  It's on the employee to do what's best for them.  it's on the employer to do what's best for the organization.  All you hear is one side of the story.  

Just b/c it is the company's "budget" does not mean it is not underpaid.

 

[kutta]

  Thanks to everyone's input on this matter I've definitely come around to waiting until next week to see if I hear back about that other opportunity.

Then will just use our weekly Friday One-on-One Meeting next week to bring up the salary discussion.

Good luck!

I actually have a similar thing happening right now. My assistant of 15 years came in and said she feels like she should be paid at the director level because of all she does. She has two people below her who answer phones, etc., she handles HR, security, and lots of other things, and she made a hell of a case. I’ve thought about it and I’m going to create a “business manager” position and bump her up to the same pay as my director of business development. She deserves it, and I’d be lost without her.

I guess my point is that asking does work. I would have never done this if she hadn’t made me see her side of it.

 

[snogger]

Love how companies think like this. We underpay you for what you do for us so far, but we will only up your pay if we can further take advantage of you by making you do more &, in turn, continuing to underpay you...

This is not necessarily the case.  What the employee PERCEIVES as being underpaid, may just be what the company has budgeted for that department or position, etc...

I have three machine operators, with roughly the same amount of experience.  They are not paid the same.  If they want to look around and see what this industry standard is for a machine operator with their experience, go for it.  If operator B asks for a 30% raise because other companies are paying higher, it is on the company to decide then what is in their best interests.  Give the raise, hire someone new, etc...  Is the company not within it's rights to do what they see fit to make a profit?  It's on the employee to do what's best for them.  it's on the employer to do what's best for the organization.  All you hear is one side of the story.

The bold part is what I, as well as all employees, have to learn....

I have some guilt about leaving my current company, and leaving the person I report to in a bind as I am the lead, and for one large project, the only person working on some projects.

If I do decide to leave, it will definitely leave a hole and delay one of the projects from being completed. Others in the company are counting on me to get this pushed through and so I do have some guilt about leaving them in a bind as well.
I've tried my best to get others up to speed in case something happened but 6 months into it and no one has been willing to step up even with a couple Directors and managers pushing it.

But, at the end of the day, employees have to realize the company doesn't see us as "indispensable" and if push came to shove they'd lay us off and delay a project if need be without the guilt.

 

[NeverEnough]

The bold part is what I, as well as all employees, have to learn....

I have some guilt about leaving my current company, and leaving the person I report to in a bind as I am the lead, and for one large project, the only person working on some projects.

If I do decide to leave, it will definitely leave a hole and delay one of the projects from being completed. Others in the company are counting on me to get this pushed through and so I do have some guilt about leaving them in a bind as well.
I've tried my best to get others up to speed in case something happened but 6 months into it and no one has been willing to step up even with a couple Directors and managers pushing it.

But, at the end of the day, employees have to realize the company doesn't see us as "indispensable" and if push came to shove they'd lay us off and delay a project if need be without the guilt.

Yup, companies do not give two ####s about us. Look out for #1.

 

[Hawkeye21]

Yup, companies do not give two ####s about us. Look out for #1.

That's not always true.  That's the crappy attitude that way too many employees have and is what can hurt their pay or get them fired.

 

[kutta]

Yup, companies do not give two ####s about us. Look out for #1.

There’s a lot of companies that care about their employees.

 

[NeverEnough]

There’s a lot of companies that care about their employees.

I haven't seen one in a while. Definitely have not worked for one in forever.

 

[snogger]

Yup, companies do not give two ####s about us. Look out for #1.

That's not always true.  That's the crappy attitude that way too many employees have and is what can hurt their pay or get them fired.

Yea.. some companies are heartless bastards.. But many, at least the ones I've worked for in the past 15+ years have shown they do care.

But at the end of the day, they are in the business to "make money" and if cutting staff is needed in order to show a profit, they will do what needs to be done.. It's either that or go bankrupt and have everyone lose their jobs.

I'm starting to look at it this way..

If you have a s subscription with DirectTV or Dish...
They don't automatically offer a discount after the 2 years are up.. They will happily accept your extra money until you call.
At which time, to keep you happy, they will usually give you discounts as well as other perks.

In this case, companies will happily give you the 2-4% raise each year and not offer more unless you ask..

The biggest thing I've learned is "They can't say No if you don't ask" ..

 

[Hawkeye21]

I haven't seen one in a while. Definitely have not worked for one in forever.

The larger the company you work for the harder it is to have that personal relationship.  I can understand not feeling appreciated by large companies but it's harder for them to do it.  If you want to feel more appreciated I recommend working for a family owned business that's not as big.

 

[gianmarco]

And just remember, as uncomfortable as it is, this is your one chance to ask for a raise (at least in the near future).  You don't get to ask for more next week.  You only get one shot to negotiate.  Do not leave money on the table just because it's uncomfortable.  Do your best to represent yourself and do not sell yourself short.  That uncomfortable feeling will pass shortly afterward when the $$$ starts entering your account.

 

[snogger]

And just remember, as uncomfortable as it is, this is your one chance to ask for a raise (at least in the near future).  You don't get to ask for more next week.  You only get one shot to negotiate.  Do not leave money on the table just because it's uncomfortable.  Do your best to represent yourself and do not sell yourself short.  That uncomfortable feeling will pass shortly afterward when the $$$ starts entering your account.

Yea, as I said at the beginning I've been working at this company for over 10 years and never asked for a raise.. Took what they offered each year. I just need to "Man up" and get past the uncomfortable feeling.
Truth is, in the last 25+ years I've never asked for a raise.

About 25 years ago ( my god has it been THAT long?? ) when I was working for a different company as a consultant, I was offered a job somewhere else and called my manager to setup a meeting.
Either he knew by the tone of my voice I was going to ask for a raise, or the company that offered me a job had called him for a referral because after 10 minutes of "chit-chat" he asked: "Well, I assume you didn't just come to the office to talk, what's up? "

I let him know I had been offered a job with a different company and he said "I had a feeling that was what this was about, I ran some numbers and would like to offer you this"..

It was a $20K a year raise, which was right around what the other company was offering.. Decided to stay with what I knew, rather then take a chance with a new company..

 

[NeverEnough]

The larger the company you work for the harder it is to have that personal relationship.  I can understand not feeling appreciated by large companies but it's harder for them to do it.  If you want to feel more appreciated I recommend working for a family owned business that's not as big.

Large or small, does not matter. It's the people that own/run it. Worked for both. Both suck.

Anyway, I'm not after a personal relationship. I go to work to make $, not new friends. I'm after fair pay & treatment.