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Carson Palmer's value, took a hit? (1 Viewer)

ttea

Footballguy
I didn't get to see the game, but from reading the Cedric Benson thread, and the Bengals/Rams game thread. Looks like Cincy's O-line is god awful.

So with that in mind, do you think Palmer's value takes a hit or does it stay the same?

I haven't heard much about Cincy's o-line this offseason, considering it was awful to begin, it doesn't sound good.

Were the talks of a Palmer and Ochocinco resurgence premature, they were considered sleepers from what I hear.

I was hoping to grab Palmer or Ochocino as I thought they might return great value considering their ADPs.

What are your opinions?

 
Considering former hold out Smith broke his foot, I can't see much difference here. Smith hadn't gotten up to speed yet and now he's hurt. Same as day 1, IMO. :shrug:

 
Forgive me but I'm trying to understand how this is some kind of revelation. Perhaps you've missed the last few seasons of Bengals football.

 
The odds of Palmer playing a complete season are not good. Adding to the fact that in our league interceptions and fumbles lost are both -3 points I am staying away from Carson.

 
Cross your fingers that he puts up points against a terrible Broncos defense week 1, then sell high.

If he does get hurt, any value in the irish boy JT O'Sullivan in a 2 QB league?

 
Considering former hold out Smith broke his foot, I can't see much difference here. Smith hadn't gotten up to speed yet and now he's hurt. Same as day 1, IMO. :coffee:
Actually I posted this before they signed Smith, obviously before he got injured. So it was in a different context.
Forgive me but I'm trying to understand how this is some kind of revelation. Perhaps you've missed the last few seasons of Bengals football.
Sarcasm at it's finest...Are you going to deny as well that Palmer was a huge sleeper this summer, and Ocho was supposed to be on some amazing come back trail? And Chris Henry is supposed to be some great late round stash away pick. And the arguments for and against Cedric Benson being a solid RB2?There was some other thread on here detailing the player you are banking on as a "do or die" type of situation, many had Palmer. I just think maybe they were getting ahead of themselves. I actually stayed away from all the Bungles in my draft last night, except Ocho, he was by far the best available on my turn so it was unavoidable.
 
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The Bengals OL is terrible. It's been this way for awhile. Post-draft there was some optimism with Smith, but that quickly fizzled away when he hadn't signed a week into camp.

The upside is there, but it's hard to imagine the CIN OL playing well enough to make Palmer and Johnson studs again. The only holdover from the glory Bengals is RG Bobbie Williams. Levi Jones is gone, the great Willie Anderson retired, and they didn't resign Steinbach. C Rich Braham retired.

The Bengals actually had a very good OL in '05, and that's why Palmer/Johnson were so good. Now? It's bad. And I wouldn't be surprised if Palmer gets beat up in a bunch of games this year. Like I said, you can paint a picture were Johnson/Palmer/Henry/Coles/Benson are steals, but that OL is just too ineffective to expect good things.

 
Man, I really had high expectations for Ochocinco and Henry this year. But if they don't have time to get the ball down the field they won't be worth much. Hopefully Benson can get something going in the running game to keep the defense honest and work a little play action.

 
I stayed away from both like the plague. Their values were far too high considering the last few seasons. Everyone has priced into them a huge resurgence to their former years, which is possible but not something that is very likely. Palmer should only be a QB2 and Chad a WR3 in my book, not a low-end QB1 or a high-end WR2.

 
I didn't get to see the game, but from reading the Cedric Benson thread, and the Bengals/Rams game thread. Looks like Cincy's O-line is god awful.

So with that in mind, do you think Palmer's value takes a hit or does it stay the same?

I haven't heard much about Cincy's o-line this offseason, considering it was awful to begin, it doesn't sound good.

Were the talks of a Palmer and Ochocinco resurgence premature, they were considered sleepers from what I hear.

I was hoping to grab Palmer or Ochocino as I thought they might return great value considering their ADPs.

What are your opinions?
weeks 1,2,4,6,11-13, 16 look like cakewalk games where the offense should have no problem moving the ball at will. games against denver,gb, Browns (2x), houston, detroit, kc, oakland.reports of the demise of the Bengals are premature, at best.. :shrug:

I know Chase loves Jacksonville, so I'll bet him that Ocho Cinco finishes with more catches/td/yards than any WR on the Jags roster, also, collectively, the Bengals QB's ( or Palmer all by himself if he stays healthy)will total more passing yards/tds/comps than Garrard..

so while the Bengals offensive line might be a bit weaker, the defense is a lot stronger, so it evens out in the end,anyways.the Bengals offense will get more possessions and more time of possession to work with

 
It seems like the offensive line woes are already factored into Carson's ADP. If they happen to play well you'll get a steal. If they look like they did last year he'll take hits and probably be pretty inconsistent.

I still think Chad is going to have a pretty good season though.

 
I didn't get to see the game, but from reading the Cedric Benson thread, and the Bengals/Rams game thread. Looks like Cincy's O-line is god awful.

So with that in mind, do you think Palmer's value takes a hit or does it stay the same?

I haven't heard much about Cincy's o-line this offseason, considering it was awful to begin, it doesn't sound good.

Were the talks of a Palmer and Ochocinco resurgence premature, they were considered sleepers from what I hear.

I was hoping to grab Palmer or Ochocino as I thought they might return great value considering their ADPs.

What are your opinions?
weeks 1,2,4,6,11-13, 16 look like cakewalk games where the offense should have no problem moving the ball at will. games against denver,gb, Browns (2x), houston, detroit, kc, oakland.reports of the demise of the Bengals are premature, at best.. :goodposting:

I know Chase loves Jacksonville, so I'll bet him that Ocho Cinco finishes with more catches/td/yards than any WR on the Jags roster, also, collectively, the Bengals QB's ( or Palmer all by himself if he stays healthy)will total more passing yards/tds/comps than Garrard..

so while the Bengals offensive line might be a bit weaker, the defense is a lot stronger, so it evens out in the end,anyways.the Bengals offense will get more possessions and more time of possession to work with
Well I hope you're right. There was a huge run on wide receivers in my draft. Which enabled me to get Steve Slaton a 3.04!!! But that left me relying on Ocho to be my WR2.
 
Bengals Homer here...

If you have Palmer at QB1, you'd better 'cuff him with JTO. He will not last the season. He is soft now and the o-line is in transition (thats a nice way to say they suck). At least the D will be good this year

 
Bengals Homer here...

If you have Palmer at QB1, you'd better 'cuff him with JTO. He will not last the season. He is soft now and the o-line is in transition (thats a nice way to say they suck). At least the D will be good this year
Is O'Sullivan decent enough to get the job done should Palmer go down? He didn't impresss me much with San Fran but then again that offense didn't have Johnson, Coles and Henry.
 
gonzobill5 said:
Cross your fingers that he puts up points against a terrible Broncos defense week 1, then sell high. If he does get hurt, any value in the irish boy JT O'Sullivan in a 2 QB league?
Bengals Homer here...If you have Palmer at QB1, you'd better 'cuff him with JTO. He will not last the season. He is soft now and the o-line is in transition (thats a nice way to say they suck). At least the D will be good this year
Let's see, horrible o-line, he's going to get shmeared, so you want his backup?Maybe in a 4 QB league.
 
I'd pick up JTO if I thought I'd need him. Depends on the league and roster size. His arm has looked pretty good in fake season. The O-line is the wild card here

Palmer's elbow seems OK. His ankle is the concern now. I think it was worse than what they let on BUT not sure. I do believe that despite CP being a stand-up guy, that he has gotten soft since the knee injury a few years back.

And as always, remember, its the Bengals. Anything bad can and will happen

 
When have the Bengals ever had a "good" oline?FO

The 2009 line will be younger and inexperienced, but there is promise here. First-round choice Andre Smithhad a catastrophic Combine, but was the best power blocker in college football at Alabama. If he shows anyability to pass block, he will be the left tackle from day one. If not, Smith will be on the right, while AnthonyCollins, a promising second-year man whose insertion into the lineup late in the season helped steady the linea little, should be at left tackle. Rookie Jonathan Luigs, a two-time All-American at Arkansas, will get a shotat center, with Kyle Cook and Dan Santucci around if he isn’t ready. The replacing of Ghiaciuc with anyonehas to be considered addition by subtraction. Andrew Whitworth and Bobbie Williams are solid guards, whenthey get to play their natural positions — both were forced to play several spots last year (Whitworth, at least,is a pretty good tackle when he lines up there). Nate Livings, another emergency rookie starter last season, wasimpressive at guard as well. Scott Kooistra provides depth and several extra vowels.
 
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I read recently that Daniel Coats is supposed to be a good blocker, and will be their starting TE this year with their receiving TEs out. That seems like good news for a team with a weak O line and three good receivers.

 
Well, first I'll ask, how old are you? They've had great o-lines more often than poor ones, but they've had issues there for three years now

When have the Bengals ever had a "good" oline?FO

The 2009 line will be younger and inexperienced, but there is promise here. First-round choice Andre Smithhad a catastrophic Combine, but was the best power blocker in college football at Alabama. If he shows anyability to pass block, he will be the left tackle from day one. If not, Smith will be on the right, while AnthonyCollins, a promising second-year man whose insertion into the lineup late in the season helped steady the linea little, should be at left tackle. Rookie Jonathan Luigs, a two-time All-American at Arkansas, will get a shotat center, with Kyle Cook and Dan Santucci around if he isn’t ready. The replacing of Ghiaciuc with anyonehas to be considered addition by subtraction. Andrew Whitworth and Bobbie Williams are solid guards, whenthey get to play their natural positions — both were forced to play several spots last year (Whitworth, at least,is a pretty good tackle when he lines up there). Nate Livings, another emergency rookie starter last season, wasimpressive at guard as well. Scott Kooistra provides depth and several extra vowels.
 
I read recently that Daniel Coats is supposed to be a good blocker, and will be their starting TE this year with their receiving TEs out. That seems like good news for a team with a weak O line and three good receivers.
And I thought I was an eternal optimist. So Coats is effectively replacing Reggie Kelly, one of the best blocking te's in the league (not to mention one of the team leaders), who is out for the year, and that's cause for optimism. Do people really think Coats is as good of blocker as Kelly, let alone better? (Serious question, I don't know anything about the guy.)
 
I read recently that Daniel Coats is supposed to be a good blocker, and will be their starting TE this year with their receiving TEs out. That seems like good news for a team with a weak O line and three good receivers.
And I thought I was an eternal optimist. So Coats is effectively replacing Reggie Kelly, one of the best blocking te's in the league (not to mention one of the team leaders), who is out for the year, and that's cause for optimism. Do people really think Coats is as good of blocker as Kelly, let alone better? (Serious question, I don't know anything about the guy.)
I don't think so, no. I think you misunderstood what I meant by "good news". We already knew Kelly was out. Coats is a fullback/TE who apparently blocks well. I don't mean to imply that he's a special player, just that it's good news for a bad O line that the Bengals will be keeping one and possibly two TEs in the game, and mostly to block. Here's an article on Coats' ascension to the starting lineup from the Cinci Enquirer. He sounds like a decent young TE who still has some work to do.
With season-ending injuries during the first week of training camp to Reggie Kelly and Ben Utecht, Daniel Coats has been thrust into the role of starting tight end.After seeing most of his time at fullback last year, Coats has moved to the first string back at his natural position. Before Utecht was injured, the plan was to rotate both players, but Utecht’s concussion and the youth of the backups gave Coats the inside track.Utecht’s fate for this season was sealed Monday when he was placed on injured reserve. He suffered his fifth concussion on Aug. 5 during a line blocking drill.“They’ve all been learning games even though I’m going into my third season. I’m still getting a feel of getting out there and getting back into the groove of things,” Coats said. “I’m definitely glad to be back at tight end. Playing fullback helped out a lot in how to attack people and read defenders.”Coats also has not been immune to injuries during the preseason. He is still nursing an ankle injury he suffered during the first week of camp and doesn’t feel quite at 100 percent yet.The reason why Coats is the starter is because of his strength as a blocker, which improved with his time at fullback. Add in the injuries to Kelly and Utecht along with the continuing development of third-round pick Chase Coffman, it left the Bengals with no other viable option.Besides his blocking, Coats has four catches for 50 yards. He had a 27-yard reception in the second preseason game at New England, but fumbled it.“He played both spots last year and they’re almost interchangeable in some of the things that we do,” coach Marvin Lewis said of Coats. “I think there’s an experience factor and there’s obviously a thing with pass protection, some of those things that he had to continue to work hard at. His versatility has been a good thing.”While there is a relative lack of experience among the current group, the Bengals have not been shy about using two tight end sets during the preseason. Coffman, who has been featured on “Hard Knocks” and mostly for the wrong reasons, has received plenty of reps and continues to progress.After playing wide receiver in high school and tight end in a spread offense at Missouri, this is the first time Coffman is playing as a conventional tight end, where he’s playing with his hand down most of the time.Said Lewis of Coffman: “I think Chase has grown a lot. He still has some ways to go, and I think he’ll continue doing that as we keep seeing. He keeps getting back and being able to practice once a day and being comfortable. A little more comfortable is a good thing, having been a little banged up like he was in camp early on.”Coats has also been receiving plenty of help from Kelly, who is rehabbing from a torn Achilles suffered Aug. 3, while also trying to help out the tight ends. Besides Coats and Coffman, J.P. Foschi, Kolomona Kapanui and Darius Hill are on the roster. The Bengals traditionally keep three on the roster.“Reggie is always trying to keep us positive. He says you’re doing better than you think and am doing some good things,” Coats said. “The other guys are learning more than I am at the moment because it’s a young room. Everyone’s showing the attacking style and going after guys. It’s the things you develop over the years like the great technique that Reggie had or just knowing how defensive players move, what the schemes are that we’re not picking up yet, but it’s coming.”Even though the Bengals are missing their top two projected tight ends, it might not change the overall things they want to do with the position. “We’ll see that as the season unfolds. They’ll define those things for us. I’m not going to put any limitation on what those guys can do,” Lewis said of Coats and Coffman.As to what he’s looking for against the Colts, Coats is hoping to have everything cleaned up by the time Denver comes to town on Sept. 13.“I need to get my technique down a little more, understand defenses more and make sure everything is cleaned up when Denver shows up,” Coats said.Besides Utecht, Matt Sherry was released under the “waived/injured” category. If the second-year tight end clears waivers, he will revert on to the Bengals injured reserved list. If Sherry goes onto IR, he would be the fourth Bengal to do so during the preseason. Last year they had 23 on IR.With the two roster moves, the roster officially stands at 75, which it must be at by 4 p.m. today. The Bengals actually have 76, but first-round pick Andre Smith, who signed on Sunday, is on a two-week roster exemption.
 
Some people on here read WAAAAY too much into these early preseason "injuries".

First it was Berrian and his hammy.

Then it was Beanie Wells.

Now it is Palmer.

I said it once and I will say it again --- where you see risk I see opportunity. I will gladly snap these guys up when you let them slide a round or 2 because of these preseason "injuries".

 
I read recently that Daniel Coats is supposed to be a good blocker, and will be their starting TE this year with their receiving TEs out. That seems like good news for a team with a weak O line and three good receivers.
And I thought I was an eternal optimist. So Coats is effectively replacing Reggie Kelly, one of the best blocking te's in the league (not to mention one of the team leaders), who is out for the year, and that's cause for optimism. Do people really think Coats is as good of blocker as Kelly, let alone better? (Serious question, I don't know anything about the guy.)
I don't think so, no. I think you misunderstood what I meant by "good news". We already knew Kelly was out. Coats is a fullback/TE who apparently blocks well. I don't mean to imply that he's a special player, just that it's good news for a bad O line that the Bengals will be keeping one and possibly two TEs in the game, and mostly to block. Here's an article on Coats' ascension to the starting lineup from the Cinci Enquirer. He sounds like a decent young TE who still has some work to do.
With season-ending injuries during the first week of training camp to Reggie Kelly and Ben Utecht, Daniel Coats has been thrust into the role of starting tight end.After seeing most of his time at fullback last year, Coats has moved to the first string back at his natural position. Before Utecht was injured, the plan was to rotate both players, but Utecht’s concussion and the youth of the backups gave Coats the inside track.Utecht’s fate for this season was sealed Monday when he was placed on injured reserve. He suffered his fifth concussion on Aug. 5 during a line blocking drill.“They’ve all been learning games even though I’m going into my third season. I’m still getting a feel of getting out there and getting back into the groove of things,” Coats said. “I’m definitely glad to be back at tight end. Playing fullback helped out a lot in how to attack people and read defenders.”Coats also has not been immune to injuries during the preseason. He is still nursing an ankle injury he suffered during the first week of camp and doesn’t feel quite at 100 percent yet.The reason why Coats is the starter is because of his strength as a blocker, which improved with his time at fullback. Add in the injuries to Kelly and Utecht along with the continuing development of third-round pick Chase Coffman, it left the Bengals with no other viable option.Besides his blocking, Coats has four catches for 50 yards. He had a 27-yard reception in the second preseason game at New England, but fumbled it.“He played both spots last year and they’re almost interchangeable in some of the things that we do,” coach Marvin Lewis said of Coats. “I think there’s an experience factor and there’s obviously a thing with pass protection, some of those things that he had to continue to work hard at. His versatility has been a good thing.”While there is a relative lack of experience among the current group, the Bengals have not been shy about using two tight end sets during the preseason. Coffman, who has been featured on “Hard Knocks” and mostly for the wrong reasons, has received plenty of reps and continues to progress.After playing wide receiver in high school and tight end in a spread offense at Missouri, this is the first time Coffman is playing as a conventional tight end, where he’s playing with his hand down most of the time.Said Lewis of Coffman: “I think Chase has grown a lot. He still has some ways to go, and I think he’ll continue doing that as we keep seeing. He keeps getting back and being able to practice once a day and being comfortable. A little more comfortable is a good thing, having been a little banged up like he was in camp early on.”Coats has also been receiving plenty of help from Kelly, who is rehabbing from a torn Achilles suffered Aug. 3, while also trying to help out the tight ends. Besides Coats and Coffman, J.P. Foschi, Kolomona Kapanui and Darius Hill are on the roster. The Bengals traditionally keep three on the roster.“Reggie is always trying to keep us positive. He says you’re doing better than you think and am doing some good things,” Coats said. “The other guys are learning more than I am at the moment because it’s a young room. Everyone’s showing the attacking style and going after guys. It’s the things you develop over the years like the great technique that Reggie had or just knowing how defensive players move, what the schemes are that we’re not picking up yet, but it’s coming.”Even though the Bengals are missing their top two projected tight ends, it might not change the overall things they want to do with the position. “We’ll see that as the season unfolds. They’ll define those things for us. I’m not going to put any limitation on what those guys can do,” Lewis said of Coats and Coffman.As to what he’s looking for against the Colts, Coats is hoping to have everything cleaned up by the time Denver comes to town on Sept. 13.“I need to get my technique down a little more, understand defenses more and make sure everything is cleaned up when Denver shows up,” Coats said.Besides Utecht, Matt Sherry was released under the “waived/injured” category. If the second-year tight end clears waivers, he will revert on to the Bengals injured reserved list. If Sherry goes onto IR, he would be the fourth Bengal to do so during the preseason. Last year they had 23 on IR.With the two roster moves, the roster officially stands at 75, which it must be at by 4 p.m. today. The Bengals actually have 76, but first-round pick Andre Smith, who signed on Sunday, is on a two-week roster exemption.
Ok, gotcha. Thanks for posting this.
 
I'm more paranoid about his non TJ'd elbow than anything else.

Any Carson owners pull the trigger on any deals? Which QB can he fetch, Big Ben maybe?

 
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I'm more paranoid about his non TJ'd elbow than anything else. Any Carson owners pull the trigger on any deals? Which QB can he fetch, Big Ben maybe?
Big Ben seems reasonable for Palmer. I'd rather have Ben personally, though Palmer has a higher ceiling.
 
The odds of Palmer playing a complete season are not good.
I know, right? He has only played in all 16 games for 3 straight years. Then he had a injury to his elbow that is, according to all accounts, healed. There's NO way he will play a complete season :kicksrock: He may get hurt, he may not. Just because he had one injury doesn't mean he is now "injury-prone." Get a grip.
 
Palmer may not be a stud QB, but I think he has tremendous value at this point. His o-line was horrible back when he was a top 3 fantasy QB and is still horrible. Will he get hurt because of it, maybe, but that is a chance I am willing to take with his ADP.

Recent 10 team draft, I picked up Palmer at 11.02 (took Matt Ryan at 10.02). I am very happy with those two at QB considering I picked them up in the 10th and 11th. If Palmer is hurt or sucks, no big deal!

 
I'd be as worried or more about his elbow ... He should have had surgery last year
Lot of doctors on these boards. Reports were that Carson had his elbow looked at by pretty much every orthopoedic guy in the business last year, and the consensus was that surgery would not help. The decision was made AFTER he was already shelved, so it's not like the decision was based on trying to cram him back into the lineup. So in summary, many highly qualified experts (all of whom actually EXAMINED Palmer) believe one thing, but you feel you know better?
 
I'd be as worried or more about his elbow ... He should have had surgery last year
Lot of doctors on these boards. Reports were that Carson had his elbow looked at by pretty much every orthopoedic guy in the business last year, and the consensus was that surgery would not help. The decision was made AFTER he was already shelved, so it's not like the decision was based on trying to cram him back into the lineup. So in summary, many highly qualified experts (all of whom actually EXAMINED Palmer) believe one thing, but you feel you know better?
Surgery wouldn't help Stephen Hawking either, but that's not because he's in the pink.
 
I'd be as worried or more about his elbow ... He should have had surgery last year
Lot of doctors on these boards. Reports were that Carson had his elbow looked at by pretty much every orthopoedic guy in the business last year, and the consensus was that surgery would not help. The decision was made AFTER he was already shelved, so it's not like the decision was based on trying to cram him back into the lineup. So in summary, many highly qualified experts (all of whom actually EXAMINED Palmer) believe one thing, but you feel you know better?
Surgery wouldn't help Stephen Hawking either, but that's not because he's in the pink.
That's cruel. You gonna have a midget joke next? :shock:
 
I'd be as worried or more about his elbow ... He should have had surgery last year
Lot of doctors on these boards. Reports were that Carson had his elbow looked at by pretty much every orthopoedic guy in the business last year, and the consensus was that surgery would not help. The decision was made AFTER he was already shelved, so it's not like the decision was based on trying to cram him back into the lineup. So in summary, many highly qualified experts (all of whom actually EXAMINED Palmer) believe one thing, but you feel you know better?
Surgery wouldn't help Stephen Hawking either, but that's not because he's in the pink.
That's cruel. You gonna have a midget joke next? ;)
Only a short one.
 
gonzobill5 said:
Cross your fingers that he puts up points against a terrible Broncos defense week 1, then sell high. If he does get hurt, any value in the irish boy JT O'Sullivan in a 2 QB league?
Bengals Homer here...If you have Palmer at QB1, you'd better 'cuff him with JTO. He will not last the season. He is soft now and the o-line is in transition (thats a nice way to say they suck). At least the D will be good this year
Let's see, horrible o-line, he's going to get shmeared, so you want his backup?Maybe in a 4 QB league.
Obviously you've never played a 12 team start 2 QB league.
 
I'd be as worried or more about his elbow ... He should have had surgery last year
Lot of doctors on these boards. Reports were that Carson had his elbow looked at by pretty much every orthopoedic guy in the business last year, and the consensus was that surgery would not help. The decision was made AFTER he was already shelved, so it's not like the decision was based on trying to cram him back into the lineup. So in summary, many highly qualified experts (all of whom actually EXAMINED Palmer) believe one thing, but you feel you know better?
Surgery would have helped ... Palmer chose to let it heal on it's own. That decision will come back to haunt him within 6 games max.
 
Bayhawks said:
Godsbrother said:
The odds of Palmer playing a complete season are not good.
I know, right? He has only played in all 16 games for 3 straight years. Then he had a injury to his elbow that is, according to all accounts, healed. There's NO way he will play a complete season :goodposting: He may get hurt, he may not. Just because he had one injury doesn't mean he is now "injury-prone." Get a grip.
Obviously a Palmer owner.Nobody said he is injury prone but he has a bad elbow that should have had surgery.By the way it's not one injury ... he blew out his knee, missed most of last year with a severe elbow injury, and now has a badly sprained ankle.
 
Bayhawks said:
Godsbrother said:
The odds of Palmer playing a complete season are not good.
I know, right? He has only played in all 16 games for 3 straight years. Then he had a injury to his elbow that is, according to all accounts, healed. There's NO way he will play a complete season :goodposting: He may get hurt, he may not. Just because he had one injury doesn't mean he is now "injury-prone." Get a grip.
I think he's had more then one injury, let's count together 1., knee, 2., elbow, and now ankle that makes 3 injuries by my count. I guess with new math 3 injuries are not injury prone.
 

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