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Cassel progressing as QB? (1 Viewer)

fathermurphy

Footballguy
I haven't been able to watch NE for the last couple of weeks. Stats wise he seems to be slowly moving in the right direction. Anyone watching him with any regularity?

I feel like with even marginal growth he has more upside than someone like Bulger for example, given the offensive weapons around him. Thoughts?

 
I was doing a mental exercise the other day as it relates to Cassel...

Which team would Cassel start for across the NFL?

I came up with maybe 10 teams, and several of those were 50/50 calls. He's looks to be a below average QB in a great situation. Bulger has shown he can be a very good QB, but is in a terrible situation, using your example.

I set Cassel's ceiling around QB14 ( with continued improvement), with a likely end ranking around QB20. I don't think he makes quick enough decisions to operate effectively in the NE offense. IMO, he'll either be given game manager duties and have stat lines along the lines of 12/19 180 0TD/0INT , or ( if they get into a shootout ) something like 20/38 260 1TD / 3 INT. I have very little confidence in Cassel being able to open up the offense and maintain ball security.

I think its either/or with him.

 
I was doing a mental exercise the other day as it relates to Cassel...

Which team would Cassel start for across the NFL?

I came up with maybe 10 teams, and several of those were 50/50 calls. He's looks to be a below average QB in a great situation. Bulger has shown he can be a very good QB, but is in a terrible situation, using your example.

I set Cassel's ceiling around QB14 ( with continued improvement), with a likely end ranking around QB20. I don't think he makes quick enough decisions to operate effectively in the NE offense. IMO, he'll either be given game manager duties and have stat lines along the lines of 12/19 180 0TD/0INT , or ( if they get into a shootout ) something like 20/38 260 1TD / 3 INT. I have very little confidence in Cassel being able to open up the offense and maintain ball security.

I think its either/or with him.
I think that's a solid assessment. I think (hope) if he just sticks with the short stuff and lets the talent around him make the plays he may be able to look a bit better than he is.
 
I watch the Pat's all the time. The problem with their offense is that it bogs down in the red zone. Under Cassel they've generally been able to move up and down the field but once they get to the 20 they just can't push the ball into the end zone. They did a better job of it last week than in the first few games so there is potential there. I do think that if they can solve this problem then Cassel's TD numbers could go from averaging less than 1 a game to 2 to 3 a game. But I do not have a huge amount of confidence they can do this.

At first I thought it was the play calling getting conservative in the red zone. But I do not think that is what the problem really is. What I've noticed is that the red zone seems to consistently be the place where our drives fall apart because we take a critical sack. So why is that? The O-Line has struggled at times and that partially explains it, but I don't think it full explains it. I think it all comes down to Cassel, for two reasons:

1) Cassel can't read the defense the way Brady could. As a regular watcher of the Pat's I can tell you that one of the most common sights from the past is watching Brady making adjustments at the line. Not just in the play call but also in the protection scheme. You don't see that with Cassel. And I think this has left the Pat's O-Line more susceptible to agressive defenses.

2) When defensive pressure does come Cassel doesn't handle it anywhere near as well as Brady used to. Cassel seems to give up on plays and tuck the ball away much quicker than Brady ever used to. I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing, but I do think it makes it harder to sustain drives all the way to the end zone.

So, I think it really will all come down to how much better Cassel can get at dealing with defensive pressure. I didn't really see anything last week to make me think he was doing a better job of this. I do think this week's game against SD will provide some insight.

 
Any way to compare where Brady was at this point in his development? My understanding that reading the defense was really the sign that the quarterback is a professional. Given that Cassel has had four or five games of experience, it might be a bit early to go either way.

 
The Pats are still prepping O'Connell to take over if needed in a few weeks.

Cassel has a variety of issues, some of which may be his own and others which may be coaching staff inflicted. The biggest issue right now is he has no internal clock or pocket presence. On plays where he is about to get clobbered he will stand their oblivious. On plays where he has time and a solid pocket he will pull the ball down and run . . . usually into his linemen or taking a sack he didn't need to take.

Similarly, his reads many times are suspect. There have been a ton of plays where he had receivers wide open and didn't see them or opted to throw to players that were much bettered covered. He also has had several drives end by throwing 5 yards short of a first down on 3rd and long. All this has led to drives that have stalled prematurely, field goal attempts, and up until last week a shortage of points.

Against the Niners he did have the nice bomb to Moss, but the rest of the game was nothing to write home about. Without that one highlight reel play, Cassel only had 193 passing yards with 0 TD and 2 INT the rest of the game.

I've been saying for a month now that Cassel with stay as the starter as long as the team is winning and the offense starts to score over 20 points a game. If they are 4-4 at the mid point of the season (very possible IMO), they will probably stick in O'Connell.

For those that asked about Cassel's progress compared to Brady, I would say they are about even. Through 3 games and a releif appearance Cassel has totaled 707 yards, 3 TD, and 3 INT with the Pats 3-1. Back in the day, Brady had 664 yards, 2 TD and 0 INT with the Pats 2-2 in those games.

 
The most important thing, for me, is that he used Moss last week. The Pats O is dramatically different with/without Moss getting the ball.

Since he is part of a record setting O just a year ago, his cieling has to be super high. Realistically though, I'd bet the Pats would be thrilled with a top 10 QB.

 
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The most important thing, for me, is that he used Moss last week. The Pats O is dramatically different with/without Moss getting the ball.Since he is part of a record setting O just a year ago, his cieling has to be super high. Realistically though, I'd bet the Pats would be thrilled with a top 10 QB.
The issue for Moss and Cassel is that both of their success has been derived from their long pass plays. So far they've connected on 2 in 4 games. They will continue to get 1-2 deep routes a game. If they connect, Moss will be ok not great while Cassel would be a decent fantasy backup.Like with Cassel as I posted above, take out that one bomb and Moss had 4 receptions for 45 yards and no TD. I don't see Moss getting a ton of production on underneath stuff or intermediate routes. So he will be home run or strikeout unless the offense morphs into something else.
 
The Pats are still prepping O'Connell to take over if needed in a few weeks.

Cassel has a variety of issues, some of which may be his own and others which may be coaching staff inflicted. The biggest issue right now is he has no internal clock or pocket presence. On plays where he is about to get clobbered he will stand their oblivious. On plays where he has time and a solid pocket he will pull the ball down and run . . . usually into his linemen or taking a sack he didn't need to take.

Similarly, his reads many times are suspect. There have been a ton of plays where he had receivers wide open and didn't see them or opted to throw to players that were much bettered covered. He also has had several drives end by throwing 5 yards short of a first down on 3rd and long. All this has led to drives that have stalled prematurely, field goal attempts, and up until last week a shortage of points.

Against the Niners he did have the nice bomb to Moss, but the rest of the game was nothing to write home about. Without that one highlight reel play, Cassel only had 193 passing yards with 0 TD and 2 INT the rest of the game.

I've been saying for a month now that Cassel with stay as the starter as long as the team is winning and the offense starts to score over 20 points a game. If they are 4-4 at the mid point of the season (very possible IMO), they will probably stick in O'Connell.

For those that asked about Cassel's progress compared to Brady, I would say they are about even. Through 3 games and a releif appearance Cassel has totaled 707 yards, 3 TD, and 3 INT with the Pats 3-1. Back in the day, Brady had 664 yards, 2 TD and 0 INT with the Pats 2-2 in those games.
By itself this does not tell me anything, other than the fact that he saw the downfield receivers covered and checked down in the hope that his alternate receiver might break a tackle after the reception. Are you saying that he's throwing too early to let the downfield routes develop, and putting the ball in the air too quickly, even when the protection is holding up? Or that he's missing the fact that some downfield receivers on those plays are open?
 
The Pats are still prepping O'Connell to take over if needed in a few weeks.

Cassel has a variety of issues, some of which may be his own and others which may be coaching staff inflicted. The biggest issue right now is he has no internal clock or pocket presence. On plays where he is about to get clobbered he will stand their oblivious. On plays where he has time and a solid pocket he will pull the ball down and run . . . usually into his linemen or taking a sack he didn't need to take.

Similarly, his reads many times are suspect. There have been a ton of plays where he had receivers wide open and didn't see them or opted to throw to players that were much bettered covered. He also has had several drives end by throwing 5 yards short of a first down on 3rd and long. All this has led to drives that have stalled prematurely, field goal attempts, and up until last week a shortage of points.

Against the Niners he did have the nice bomb to Moss, but the rest of the game was nothing to write home about. Without that one highlight reel play, Cassel only had 193 passing yards with 0 TD and 2 INT the rest of the game.

I've been saying for a month now that Cassel with stay as the starter as long as the team is winning and the offense starts to score over 20 points a game. If they are 4-4 at the mid point of the season (very possible IMO), they will probably stick in O'Connell.

For those that asked about Cassel's progress compared to Brady, I would say they are about even. Through 3 games and a releif appearance Cassel has totaled 707 yards, 3 TD, and 3 INT with the Pats 3-1. Back in the day, Brady had 664 yards, 2 TD and 0 INT with the Pats 2-2 in those games.
By itself this does not tell me anything, other than the fact that he saw the downfield receivers covered and checked down in the hope that his alternate receiver might break a tackle after the reception. Are you saying that he's throwing too early to let the downfield routes develop, and putting the ball in the air too quickly, even when the protection is holding up? Or that he's missing the fact that some downfield receivers on those plays are open?
He's not finding the open receivers, he's getting happy feet and scrambling when he doesn't have to, and he either throws to receivers before they get to the first down marker or will not risk anything past the first down marker and seems happy to leave 4th and 2 than take a shot at a decent chance of throwing the ball to someone that would have been a first down. So he's been tentative and conservative. And many drives have stalled or not really gotten off the ground. Because the Pats have not been looking for much more than dump off passes, teams have been able to stack the line and shut down the running game to boot, so the Pats offense has been struggling to get going.
 
The Pats are still prepping O'Connell to take over if needed in a few weeks.

Cassel has a variety of issues, some of which may be his own and others which may be coaching staff inflicted. The biggest issue right now is he has no internal clock or pocket presence. On plays where he is about to get clobbered he will stand their oblivious. On plays where he has time and a solid pocket he will pull the ball down and run . . . usually into his linemen or taking a sack he didn't need to take.

Similarly, his reads many times are suspect. There have been a ton of plays where he had receivers wide open and didn't see them or opted to throw to players that were much bettered covered. He also has had several drives end by throwing 5 yards short of a first down on 3rd and long. All this has led to drives that have stalled prematurely, field goal attempts, and up until last week a shortage of points.

Against the Niners he did have the nice bomb to Moss, but the rest of the game was nothing to write home about. Without that one highlight reel play, Cassel only had 193 passing yards with 0 TD and 2 INT the rest of the game.

I've been saying for a month now that Cassel with stay as the starter as long as the team is winning and the offense starts to score over 20 points a game. If they are 4-4 at the mid point of the season (very possible IMO), they will probably stick in O'Connell.

For those that asked about Cassel's progress compared to Brady, I would say they are about even. Through 3 games and a releif appearance Cassel has totaled 707 yards, 3 TD, and 3 INT with the Pats 3-1. Back in the day, Brady had 664 yards, 2 TD and 0 INT with the Pats 2-2 in those games.
By itself this does not tell me anything, other than the fact that he saw the downfield receivers covered and checked down in the hope that his alternate receiver might break a tackle after the reception. Are you saying that he's throwing too early to let the downfield routes develop, and putting the ball in the air too quickly, even when the protection is holding up? Or that he's missing the fact that some downfield receivers on those plays are open?
He's not finding the open receivers, he's getting happy feet and scrambling when he doesn't have to, and he either throws to receivers before they get to the first down marker or will not risk anything past the first down marker and seems happy to leave 4th and 2 than take a shot at a decent chance of throwing the ball to someone that would have been a first down. So he's been tentative and conservative. And many drives have stalled or not really gotten off the ground. Because the Pats have not been looking for much more than dump off passes, teams have been able to stack the line and shut down the running game to boot, so the Pats offense has been struggling to get going.
I agree with this. Watching him tonight, he has not gone through his progressions with consistency - tucking too soon or holding too long. I realize we may be comparing against Brady, but IMO he is not giving the Pats a great chance to win. The interception against Welker came at a crucial time - he did not get them into the endzone the precious drive and they need him to provide some life. I realize this is very, very early in his development but I really can not see the Patriots waiting too much longer to find out if he has "it."
 
The Pats are still prepping O'Connell to take over if needed in a few weeks.

Cassel has a variety of issues, some of which may be his own and others which may be coaching staff inflicted. The biggest issue right now is he has no internal clock or pocket presence. On plays where he is about to get clobbered he will stand their oblivious. On plays where he has time and a solid pocket he will pull the ball down and run . . . usually into his linemen or taking a sack he didn't need to take.

Similarly, his reads many times are suspect. There have been a ton of plays where he had receivers wide open and didn't see them or opted to throw to players that were much bettered covered. He also has had several drives end by throwing 5 yards short of a first down on 3rd and long. All this has led to drives that have stalled prematurely, field goal attempts, and up until last week a shortage of points.

Against the Niners he did have the nice bomb to Moss, but the rest of the game was nothing to write home about. Without that one highlight reel play, Cassel only had 193 passing yards with 0 TD and 2 INT the rest of the game.

I've been saying for a month now that Cassel with stay as the starter as long as the team is winning and the offense starts to score over 20 points a game. If they are 4-4 at the mid point of the season (very possible IMO), they will probably stick in O'Connell.

For those that asked about Cassel's progress compared to Brady, I would say they are about even. Through 3 games and a releif appearance Cassel has totaled 707 yards, 3 TD, and 3 INT with the Pats 3-1. Back in the day, Brady had 664 yards, 2 TD and 0 INT with the Pats 2-2 in those games.
By itself this does not tell me anything, other than the fact that he saw the downfield receivers covered and checked down in the hope that his alternate receiver might break a tackle after the reception. Are you saying that he's throwing too early to let the downfield routes develop, and putting the ball in the air too quickly, even when the protection is holding up? Or that he's missing the fact that some downfield receivers on those plays are open?
He's not finding the open receivers, he's getting happy feet and scrambling when he doesn't have to, and he either throws to receivers before they get to the first down marker or will not risk anything past the first down marker and seems happy to leave 4th and 2 than take a shot at a decent chance of throwing the ball to someone that would have been a first down. So he's been tentative and conservative. And many drives have stalled or not really gotten off the ground. Because the Pats have not been looking for much more than dump off passes, teams have been able to stack the line and shut down the running game to boot, so the Pats offense has been struggling to get going.
this describes cassel to the "T" tonight... even when he actually does find the open receiver, he panics and makes a horrible throw... i'm a miami fan, and it's been painful to watch
 
This guy has been on the sidelines for several years already. With that in mind, he should be fairly well "developed" already. Not to the point of dominating, but QB's in his situation don't normally look much better after 12 then they do after 4 or 5.

Cassel is what he is, NFL backup material. He might beat out 3 or 4 other starters in the NFL, maybe. NE might as well get O'Connel ready and see what he can do, because Cassell will not lead them to a playoff win, if they're fortunate enough to even sneak into the playoffs at this point.

 
This guy has been on the sidelines for several years already. With that in mind, he should be fairly well "developed" already. Not to the point of dominating, but QB's in his situation don't normally look much better after 12 then they do after 4 or 5. Cassel is what he is, NFL backup material. He might beat out 3 or 4 other starters in the NFL, maybe. NE might as well get O'Connel ready and see what he can do, because Cassell will not lead them to a playoff win, if they're fortunate enough to even sneak into the playoffs at this point.
imho, he's barely even backup material... you'd think an offense like NE's would make any qb, backup or not, better than they actually are... cassel brings the entire offense down to his level... the cassel era will be over soon enough, and judging from the look on his face at the end of the game, he sees the writing on the wall
 
The difference between Cassel and Brady was that Brady showed much more poise even as a rookie and just had that calm and cool demeanor. From the little I've seen of O'Connell (mop up & pre-season), I got the impression that he was more patient in the pocket and like Brady, seemed calmer and less prone to happy feet. There were several moments where Cassel was scrambling tonight and was coming up to the line of scrimmage and I wanted him to just stop and stay with the receivers rather than scrambling for two to three yards shy of the first down marker.

Yudkin nailed it with his assessment but when O'Connell came in for mop up against Miami (and John Madden mentioned the Patriots offense needing a spark tonight at the end), it seemed like the rest of the offense picked up a bit compared to when Cassel is in where it seems like the Pats are almost... content? I wonder if Cassel has enough to really motivate and lead the rest of the offense.

Also Yudkin when you compared the progress of Cassel to Brady, the big difference to me is the difference in interceptions. Brady also seemed to turn the corner after San Diego in the comeback win (33/54 for 364).

 
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The difference between Cassel and Brady was that Brady showed much more poise even as a rookie and just had that calm and cool demeanor. From the little I've seen of O'Connell (mop up & pre-season), I got the impression that he was more patient in the pocket and like Brady, seemed calmer and less prone to happy feet. There were several moments where Cassel was scrambling tonight and was coming up to the line of scrimmage and I wanted him to just stop and stay with the receivers rather than scrambling for two to three yards shy of the first down marker.Yudkin nailed it with his assessment but when O'Connell came in (and John Madden mentioned the Patriots offense needing a spark tonight at the end), it seemed like the rest of the offense picked up a bit compared to when Cassel is in where it seems like the Pats are almost... content? I wonder if Cassel has enough to really motivate and lead the rest of the offense.Also Yudkin when you compared the progress of Cassel to Brady, the big difference to me is the difference in interceptions. Brady also seemed to turn the corner after San Diego in the comeback win (33/54 for 364).
i don't think o'connell ever came into the game tonight...
 
The difference between Cassel and Brady was that Brady showed much more poise even as a rookie and just had that calm and cool demeanor. From the little I've seen of O'Connell (mop up & pre-season), I got the impression that he was more patient in the pocket and like Brady, seemed calmer and less prone to happy feet. There were several moments where Cassel was scrambling tonight and was coming up to the line of scrimmage and I wanted him to just stop and stay with the receivers rather than scrambling for two to three yards shy of the first down marker.Yudkin nailed it with his assessment but when O'Connell came in (and John Madden mentioned the Patriots offense needing a spark tonight at the end), it seemed like the rest of the offense picked up a bit compared to when Cassel is in where it seems like the Pats are almost... content? I wonder if Cassel has enough to really motivate and lead the rest of the offense.Also Yudkin when you compared the progress of Cassel to Brady, the big difference to me is the difference in interceptions. Brady also seemed to turn the corner after San Diego in the comeback win (33/54 for 364).
Pretty sure O'Connell never stepped on the field tonight. I'd love to see him play when he's ready, but he's not ready yet and the Pat's know it.
 
This guy has been on the sidelines for several years already. With that in mind, he should be fairly well "developed" already. Not to the point of dominating, but QB's in his situation don't normally look much better after 12 then they do after 4 or 5. Cassel is what he is, NFL backup material. He might beat out 3 or 4 other starters in the NFL, maybe. NE might as well get O'Connel ready and see what he can do, because Cassell will not lead them to a playoff win, if they're fortunate enough to even sneak into the playoffs at this point.
imho, he's barely even backup material... you'd think an offense like NE's would make any qb, backup or not, better than they actually are... cassel brings the entire offense down to his level... the cassel era will be over soon enough, and judging from the look on his face at the end of the game, he sees the writing on the wall
I agree with above in that Casell has no real spark, and he cant even scramble very well to help them win ugly (where are you Michael Bishop??)The fact is, Brady and Manning (or both Mannings) are considered the best players in the NFL. There is nobody on the same team that can replace them . Switching from Cassell to the other back up is probably not going to be fruitful, they still only have half the talent of Brady. NowThis shows you why the top guys get the big money and the accolades.
 
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This guy has been on the sidelines for several years already. With that in mind, he should be fairly well "developed" already. Not to the point of dominating, but QB's in his situation don't normally look much better after 12 then they do after 4 or 5. Cassel is what he is, NFL backup material. He might beat out 3 or 4 other starters in the NFL, maybe. NE might as well get O'Connel ready and see what he can do, because Cassell will not lead them to a playoff win, if they're fortunate enough to even sneak into the playoffs at this point.
imho, he's barely even backup material... you'd think an offense like NE's would make any qb, backup or not, better than they actually are... cassel brings the entire offense down to his level... the cassel era will be over soon enough, and judging from the look on his face at the end of the game, he sees the writing on the wall
I agree with above in that Casell has no real spark, and he cant even scramble very well to help them win ugly (where are you Michael Bishop??)The fact is, Brady and Manning (or both Mannings) are considered the best players in the NFL. There is nobody on the same team that can replace them . Switching from Cassell to the other back up is probably not going to be fruitful, they still only have half the talent of Brady. NowThis shows you why the top guys get the big money and the accolades.
Funny name you mention. A buddy and I were talking and I wonder if they would have just kept Bishop had they known they'd only need 1 QB to play for so long. Bishop was slow to pickup a playbook but, he'd have had how many years by now? And oddly enough his pretty deep ball would be just perfect right about now.Pats were real fortunate(same with Colts and Packers) to not have to use another QB but their star QB for so long, it really is very lucky in today's game.I still think Huard(who barely played but was a Pat years ago) and Todd Collins (shockingly good last year, studied the Pats for years in BUF) could probably be traded for with a minimal cost. At the end of their careers, they'd surely like nothing better than a chance to try to lead a team to a Supe and to throw to Moss. I've been doing some reading on Collins after mistakenly giving Huard credit for some of his stats. Seems alot of people think he's a future coach and comment how he's especially smart, fine teacher and leader etc. I know he wasn't the best QB but, if he is bright and can make all the throws understanding it all, I'd take that. I'd rather take my chances with Moss and Welker battling DBs for poorly thrown balls than the alternative of 10 passes, that could just as well have been shovel passes, to Welker. Right place, right time, but the throw is a bit off......I'd take that right now.
 
So, when does O'Connel start?
Their next 2 games are against soft passing defenses (Denver/St. Louis). If Cassel can't get it done against Denver, I bet O'Connel gets a look against St. Louis.
If Shanny would just let Champ freelance, you could start up the O'Connell bandwagon right now. He and Moss will probably bore us on one side of the field all day barely being involved as part of the game.
 

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