Chad Johnson (1 Viewer)

[turfman]

Cj is going to get passed up by his own teamate this year in fantasy land. TJ Houz is going to be the steal of the draft this year if you can get him in the 4th round. Take away CJ's 2 ridiculous games (17rec, 450yds, 5 TD) in weeks 9 - 10 and he is merely an average WR. Only 6 impact starts including those 2 games. Houz had 9 impact starts in only 14 games, one of which he did not start.

 

[Ron_Mexico]

Is this the same guy who started the

"Beware Rudi" thread ?

 

[turfman]

But seriously, I am not drafting CJ this year as high as he is going. He is the top rated WR by most people. Why does he deserve such a ranking? This year TJ will pass him up.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

Take away CJ's 2 ridiculous games (17rec, 450yds, 5 TD) in weeks 9 - 10 and he is merely an average WR.

Calling CJ average in those other 14 games is generous - he was pretty awful, particularly for what he was being counted on. He was a WR4 in terms of PPG in the rest of those games, and a low-end WR3 even when you just count total stats in the other games.Take trade value (based on name recognition) out of the equation and I don't know that I'd take CJ over Housh straight up. Add in that one is many people's #1 overall WR and the other is a 4th rounder and it's easy to figure out which of the two I'd be more likely to have on my teams this year.

 

[lions327]

AGAIN.

 

[ookook]

Didn't Housh outscore him in fantasy points last year in terms of points per game?

I sure wish all of FBGs content were organized around points per game instead of per season...

 

[turfman]

Didn't Housh outscore him in fantasy points last year in terms of points per game?I sure wish all of FBGs content were organized around points per game instead of per season...

He finished 5th in average in my league, .2 behind CJ. I wouldn't mind getting the 5th best WR that late in the draft.

 

[Ducegonads]

Is this the same guy who started the "Beware Rudi" thread ?

Yeah I was laughing over this one too. First, Rudi Johnson. Now, Chad Johnson, Next will be Andre Johnson and then Brad Johnson followed by Bryant Johnson and Larry Johnson and the the touted rookie Calvin Johnson.

 

[Loopdog]

its so annoying when people say "take away his 2 big games" or "take away his 90 yard TD and he would have only had 10 yards".....Yeah, but he didn't. He had 100. It's all a part of the equation. Maybe he didnt have a great year last year, but dont take away his 2 best games, thats idiotic. Take away Housh's 2 best games and see where he stands. Why dont people say, "Take away Housh's 8 TD's and he would have had 0."

 

[duaneok66]

keep in mind that these two are different types of receivers - BOTH are great, but Chad runs deeper routes while HOush works across the middle - don't you have to give credence to the thought that Chad opens up things for Housh??

 

[LAUNCH]

Housh was better the Johnson last year week in and week out. If you only gloss over the final stats or are impressed with pre-game hype then Chad was your guy last year. If you were interested in getting production every week, then Housh was the better WR last year.

Houshmazilla, put it on the board. Championship.

LAUNCH

 

[BLOX]

I agree, sort of. I think Henry's #'s will have to go somewhere. Who's going to pick up the slack? For most people I assume this looks more of a 1a and 1b with Houshmanzadeh being the value play here.

 

[erymer]

its so annoying when people say "take away his 2 big games" or "take away his 90 yard TD and he would have only had 10 yards".....Yeah, but he didn't. He had 100. It's all a part of the equation. Maybe he didnt have a great year last year, but dont take away his 2 best games, thats idiotic. Take away Housh's 2 best games and see where he stands. Why dont people say, "Take away Housh's 8 TD's and he would have had 0."

exactly. and if Housh could play a whole season maybe we could argue putting him ahead of CJ since the production could be there. Bottom line, I would be happy with either one on my roster.

 

[bengalboy]

Idiots. The only reason Housh is the player he is, is because of Chad Johnson. Have you absolutely no concept of how defenses work? Chad gets doubled on every play opening up things for Housh. This season, opponents won't be able to double Chad as much because Housh finally poses a threat. Chad will EASILY outperform Housh this year.

 

[Yah_Shoor_Yoobetchya]

Idiots. The only reason Housh is the player he is, is because of Chad Johnson. Have you absolutely no concept of how defenses work? Chad gets doubled on every play opening up things for Housh. This season, opponents won't be able to double Chad as much because Housh finally poses a threat. Chad will EASILY outperform Housh this year.

 

[Prof. Chaos]

Housh was better the Johnson last year week in and week out. If you only gloss over the final stats or are impressed with pre-game hype then Chad was your guy last year. If you were interested in getting production every week, then Housh was the better WR last year.

Houshmazilla, put it on the board. Championship.

It,s Houshvanilla :Lock it up:

LAUNCH

 

[fsufan]

Is this the same guy who started the "Beware Rudi" thread ?

Yeah I was laughing over this one too. First, Rudi Johnson. Now, Chad Johnson, Next will be Andre Johnson and then Brad Johnson followed by Bryant Johnson and Larry Johnson and the the touted rookie Calvin Johnson.

i think he has something against Cinny players. go ahead and start the Palmer will be a bust thread

 

[yortstop]

Idiots. The only reason Housh is the player he is, is because of Chad Johnson. Have you absolutely no concept of how defenses work? Chad gets doubled on every play opening up things for Housh. This season, opponents won't be able to double Chad as much because Housh finally poses a threat. Chad will EASILY outperform Housh this year.

And visa-versa....while Chad has all-world skills he is not the fisical player as a player like Owens so he needs an above average #2 to keep the defense from always rolling to his side. Housh nickle and dimes ya till you can get a good pitch then BAM homerun haha.

 

[Cookiemonster]

Idiots. The only reason Housh is the player he is, is because of Chad Johnson. Have you absolutely no concept of how defenses work? Chad gets doubled on every play opening up things for Housh. This season, opponents won't be able to double Chad as much because Housh finally poses a threat. Chad will EASILY outperform Housh this year.

And visa-versa....while Chad has all-world skills he is not the fisical player as a player like Owens so he needs an above average #2 to keep the defense from always rolling to his side. Housh nickle and dimes ya till you can get a good pitch then BAM homerun haha.

And Chad is a terriffic route runner with good speed. He was rendered ineffective while Palmer was rehabbing on the run for the 1st half of the season. Not to mention the not up to par line play they had while playing musical linemen. Any wonder why the two outstanding games came later in the season? Or why his overall #s jumped skywards after mid-season? Palmer was able to stay in the pocket longer, and was no longer scared to step into his throws and hit the deep balls. There were at least 3 or 4 plays I saw (and I only get the national broadcast feeds minus SF and Oak in N.Cali) that Chad had 50 + yard TD opportunities where Palmer didn't even get the ball close to Chad... if he threw it at all. Won't happen this year. Housh flourished in the short to mid-range passing game 'cause of the shorter distance, shorter time allowable for the play to develop and the fact that he is a bigger, stronger, more posession-reciever type than Johnson. I do believe however, that C.Henry's absence will be a bigger blow to Chad than to T.J. 'cause Henry can pull another cover guy off of Chad. Double teams aren't thrown at Housh so much, so less effect.

 

[duaneok66]

Idiots. The only reason Housh is the player he is, is because of Chad Johnson. Have you absolutely no concept of how defenses work? Chad gets doubled on every play opening up things for Housh. This season, opponents won't be able to double Chad as much because Housh finally poses a threat. Chad will EASILY outperform Housh this year.

And visa-versa....while Chad has all-world skills he is not the fisical player as a player like Owens so he needs an above average #2 to keep the defense from always rolling to his side. Housh nickle and dimes ya till you can get a good pitch then BAM homerun haha.

And Chad is a terriffic route runner with good speed. He was rendered ineffective while Palmer was rehabbing on the run for the 1st half of the season. Not to mention the not up to par line play they had while playing musical linemen. Any wonder why the two outstanding games came later in the season? Or why his overall #s jumped skywards after mid-season? Palmer was able to stay in the pocket longer, and was no longer scared to step into his throws and hit the deep balls. There were at least 3 or 4 plays I saw (and I only get the national broadcast feeds minus SF and Oak in N.Cali) that Chad had 50 + yard TD opportunities where Palmer didn't even get the ball close to Chad... if he threw it at all. Won't happen this year. Housh flourished in the short to mid-range passing game 'cause of the shorter distance, shorter time allowable for the play to develop and the fact that he is a bigger, stronger, more posession-reciever type than Johnson. I do believe however, that C.Henry's absence will be a bigger blow to Chad than to T.J. 'cause Henry can pull another cover guy off of Chad. Double teams aren't thrown at Housh so much, so less effect.

excellent post . . . you can't just look at year end numbers . . .

 

[gianmarco]

This "Housh is better than CJ stuff" is really kinda silly. Housh is going into his 7th year and he's had all of ONE 1000 yd season, and it was last year. And he barely made it at 1081 (I know, I know, he missed some games). The only reason he was respectable was the 9 TDs (another career high).

CJ, on the other hand, has FIVE straight 1000 yd seasons (actually, all between 1166 yds and 1432 yds) and has had TD totals of 10, 9, 9, and 7 the last 4 years.

Seriously, who is the better player? Who would you rather rely on based on past performance? Housh has one year where he's somewhat on par with CJ and now all of a sudden he's even better than him?

CJ has led the AFC in receiving yds FOUR years in a row. That's the same AFC that has Marvin Harrison and Reggie Wayne and Andre Johnson and Lee Evans.

CJ has been a model of consistency until last year when he was more inconsistent, but yet he still put up the #'s when it counted. Now, there's no question that Housh is a tremendous value pick for where he's going, but to say he's better than CJ and is the guy to target instead of CJ is downright silly. Chad Johnson is an elite WR and worthy of top 3 WR pick without question. Since his 2nd year in the league when he became a starter, he's produced at this level. 5 yrs of production vs. 1 yr of production is hardly a trend reversal. You will not see Housh outperform CJ this year. Lock it up.

ETA--Oh, and he's never caught less than 87 balls in the last 4 years.

 

[LAUNCH]

Idiots. The only reason Housh is the player he is, is because of Chad Johnson. Have you absolutely no concept of how defenses work? Chad gets doubled on every play opening up things for Housh. This season, opponents won't be able to double Chad as much because Housh finally poses a threat. Chad will EASILY outperform Housh this year.

Ohh. Thank the Lord you are here. It's not everyday I get things explained to me so well that there is this sudden light in my head that goes on.... Seriously though, thanks for the insight Capt. Obvious. Talent wise Chad Johnson is one of the top guys in the league and he does see constant double teams, but as a fantasy owner the only thing that matters is who the best guy for my team week in and week out. If TJ or Reggie Wayne benefit from single teams and it helps my team win that is what is important and really all I care about.LAUNCH

 

[KnowledgeReignsSupreme]

Take away 1368 yards and 6 TDs from Ocho Cinco and he only had 1 yard for 1 TD last year. Talk about overrated.

 

[bengalboy]

This "Housh is better than CJ stuff" is really kinda silly. Housh is going into his 7th year and he's had all of ONE 1000 yd season, and it was last year. And he barely made it at 1081 (I know, I know, he missed some games). The only reason he was respectable was the 9 TDs (another career high).CJ, on the other hand, has FIVE straight 1000 yd seasons (actually, all between 1166 yds and 1432 yds) and has had TD totals of 10, 9, 9, and 7 the last 4 years. Seriously, who is the better player? Who would you rather rely on based on past performance? Housh has one year where he's somewhat on par with CJ and now all of a sudden he's even better than him?CJ has led the AFC in receiving yds FOUR years in a row. That's the same AFC that has Marvin Harrison and Reggie Wayne and Andre Johnson and Lee Evans.CJ has been a model of consistency until last year when he was more inconsistent, but yet he still put up the #'s when it counted. Now, there's no question that Housh is a tremendous value pick for where he's going, but to say he's better than CJ and is the guy to target instead of CJ is downright silly. Chad Johnson is an elite WR and worthy of top 3 WR pick without question. Since his 2nd year in the league when he became a starter, he's produced at this level. 5 yrs of production vs. 1 yr of production is hardly a trend reversal. You will not see Housh outperform CJ this year. Lock it up.

Some huys are soooo short sighted and ridiculous. I wish more people like them were in my league! Taking TJ over Chad......what a joke.

 

[bengalboy]

CJ has led the AFC in receiving yds FOUR years in a row. That's the same AFC that has Marvin Harrison and Reggie Wayne and Andre Johnson and Lee Evans.

I can't even believe this is a discussion with two sides.

 

[Musesboy]

http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index...hl=chad+johnson

 

[gianmarco]

http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index...hl=chad+johnson

Already read it. But comparing the 2 in terms of value is apples and oranges. They are in 2 different tiers. Doesn't matter that they are on the same team. If you are saying "if I'm going to draft a Bengals WR, I'd rather get Housh then CJ", then fine. But no one drafts that way.When the time comes in the draft that the value or pick is to grab an elite WR, CJ is at the top with the likes of Steve Smith and Torry Holt and Marvin Harrison. Housh isn't in that spot. To say "well, I can get TJ later at better value" is the same as saying "I don't need an elite WR to win so I'll get a pretty good one later". That's fine. But that's not a comparison to CJ. That's a comparison to CJ and Steve Smith and Holt, etc. But if it's the beginning of the 3rd round and you pick early and CJ is there and you pass him up bc you plan on getting Housh a little later, that's just not smart. If you're banking on TJ replicating those #'s and being on par with CJ, that's not likely. One year a trend doesn't make. And don't forget, you can substitute Holt or S. Smith in that scenario for CJ. i.e.--to say that you prefer TJ over CJ is to say that you prefer getting 2nd to 3rd tier WR's over elite WR's because of the price. But don't think it's the same as comparing CJ to TJ directly.

These 2 are in different tiers of WR's. CJ is elite. TJ is in that 2nd to 3rd tier. They represent completely different values. If you are trying to say that, because of the #'s last year, CJ deserves to be moved down from the elite tier or that TJ needs to be moved up, then I think that's going way overboard. Yes, CJ has a higher price tag, but deservedly so. Yes, TJ is a fantastic value for where he's going, but so is Boldin and Evans and Driver and all the rest of the guys going around him.

 

[E-A-G-L-E-S]

Idiots. The only reason Housh is the player he is, is because of Chad Johnson. Have you absolutely no concept of how defenses work? Chad gets doubled on every play opening up things for Housh. This season, opponents won't be able to double Chad as much because Housh finally poses a threat. Chad will EASILY outperform Housh this year.

And visa-versa....while Chad has all-world skills he is not the fisical player as a player like Owens so he needs an above average #2 to keep the defense from always rolling to his side. Housh nickle and dimes ya till you can get a good pitch then BAM homerun haha.

And Chad is a terriffic route runner with good speed. He was rendered ineffective while Palmer was rehabbing on the run for the 1st half of the season. Not to mention the not up to par line play they had while playing musical linemen. Any wonder why the two outstanding games came later in the season? Or why his overall #s jumped skywards after mid-season? Palmer was able to stay in the pocket longer, and was no longer scared to step into his throws and hit the deep balls. There were at least 3 or 4 plays I saw (and I only get the national broadcast feeds minus SF and Oak in N.Cali) that Chad had 50 + yard TD opportunities where Palmer didn't even get the ball close to Chad... if he threw it at all. Won't happen this year. Housh flourished in the short to mid-range passing game 'cause of the shorter distance, shorter time allowable for the play to develop and the fact that he is a bigger, stronger, more posession-reciever type than Johnson. I do believe however, that C.Henry's absence will be a bigger blow to Chad than to T.J. 'cause Henry can pull another cover guy off of Chad. Double teams aren't thrown at Housh so much, so less effect.

I'll start off by saying I love Chad Johnson had him on my team last 3 years (traded him this off season), but last year his last TD came in week 11 He ended the year with the following:Week 15 3-37-0

Week 16 3-32-0

Week 17 4-53-0

He was not setting the world on fire the whole 2nd half of the season

He is a great player but I think like a lot of WRs you are not sure what you will get week in and week out but last year TJ was better on a weekly avg basis

 

[Peyton Marino]

Cj is going to get passed up by his own teamate this year in fantasy land. TJ Houz is going to be the steal of the draft this year if you can get him in the 4th round. Take away CJ's 2 ridiculous games (17rec, 450yds, 5 TD) in weeks 9 - 10 and he is merely an average WR. Only 6 impact starts including those 2 games. Houz had 9 impact starts in only 14 games, one of which he did not start.

I kind of agree here to a certain extent.Chad Johnson will not be surpassed statistically by TJ Houshmanzadeh, he'll still be about 100-200 yards ahead of him and he'll still get his share of TDs. People will still recognize Chad as the No. 1 in Cincy, and there won't be much debate there.

However, I do think that TJ is the much bigger value pick here. I agree with the people that pointed out Chad's tendency to flop in some games and come up huge in others. In 10 games last year the guy scored 9 points or less. That's 10 out of 16 fantasy games where your supposed No. 1 WR that you wasted a late 2nd or early 3rd on only gave you 9 points. That's pretty bad. By contrast, TJ only had six games of 9 or less points. That's 4 less games than Chad, and you didn't even have to waste a 2nd or 3rd rounder to get him. He's probably not even you're No. 1 WR. Plus, he missed 2 games last year. If he actually stays healthy for a full season (which is unlikely, and this is where Chad gets the nod over him) there's no telling what he can do.

TJ's upside, plus the fact that he can be had a round or two later than CJ just makes him a much smarter pick here. Do yourself a favor, if you're torn between taking a RB or CJ, go with the RB knowing that you'll be taking TJ a couple rounds later and getting the same or close to the same production from him.

Put it on the board

 

[gianmarco]

Cj is going to get passed up by his own teamate this year in fantasy land. TJ Houz is going to be the steal of the draft this year if you can get him in the 4th round. Take away CJ's 2 ridiculous games (17rec, 450yds, 5 TD) in weeks 9 - 10 and he is merely an average WR. Only 6 impact starts including those 2 games. Houz had 9 impact starts in only 14 games, one of which he did not start.

I kind of agree here to a certain extent.Chad Johnson will not be surpassed statistically by TJ Houshmanzadeh, he'll still be about 100-200 yards ahead of him and he'll still get his share of TDs. People will still recognize Chad as the No. 1 in Cincy, and there won't be much debate there.

However, I do think that TJ is the much bigger value pick here. I agree with the people that pointed out Chad's tendency to flop in some games and come up huge in others. In 10 games last year the guy scored 9 points or less. That's 10 out of 16 fantasy games where your supposed No. 1 WR that you wasted a late 2nd or early 3rd on only gave you 9 points. That's pretty bad. By contrast, TJ only had six games of 9 or less points. That's 4 less games than Chad, and you didn't even have to waste a 2nd or 3rd rounder to get him. He's probably not even you're No. 1 WR. Plus, he missed 2 games last year. If he actually stays healthy for a full season (which is unlikely, and this is where Chad gets the nod over him) there's no telling what he can do.

TJ's upside, plus the fact that he can be had a round or two later than CJ just makes him a much smarter pick here. Do yourself a favor, if you're torn between taking a RB or CJ, go with the RB knowing that you'll be taking TJ a couple rounds later and getting the same or close to the same production from him.

Put it on the board

So then you're advocating not going after any elite WR's? Or do you think guys like Holt or S. Smith or TO are that much better than CJ? I'm just trying to understand the logic.1. If you're advocating waiting for TJ because the price of ANY elite WR is too high, then fine. But then don't say CJ specifically.

2. If you're advocating waiting for TJ because CJ isn't as good as the other WR's, then that's another story. If that is the case, which WR's do you like better than CJ as he's a consensus top 3 pick? By saying that he's going to get the same or closer production (something he's done in only 1 of his 6 years), then do you think TJ deserves a top 5 ranking? Who do you think will outperform TJ?

 

[Peyton Marino]

So then you're advocating not going after any elite WR's? Or do you think guys like Holt or S. Smith or TO are that much better than CJ? I'm just trying to understand the logic.1. If you're advocating waiting for TJ because the price of ANY elite WR is too high, then fine. But then don't say CJ specifically.2. If you're advocating waiting for TJ because CJ isn't as good as the other WR's, then that's another story. If that is the case, which WR's do you like better than CJ as he's a consensus top 3 pick? By saying that he's going to get the same or closer production (something he's done in only 1 of his 6 years), then do you think TJ deserves a top 5 ranking? Who do you think will outperform TJ?

Well, the intent of my post was to respond to the OPs assertion that Housh would pass up Johnson this year. But since you asked...1. I wouldn't say that the price of ANY elite WR is too high. It really depends on where you are in the draft, and whether or not you think you can get good value by picking a WR in round 2 and waiting on a RB. 2. Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne, Steve Smith, Larry Fitzgerald, Terrell Owens, Torry Holt, and Roy Williams are all WRs I would take before I take Chad Johnson. If Chad lasts until all of these guys are gone, I would most certainly take him regardless of if TJ will be left 2 rounds later. The problem is, that situation is quite unlikely as CJ is often the 2nd or 3rd WR off the board.

 

[gianmarco]

So then you're advocating not going after any elite WR's? Or do you think guys like Holt or S. Smith or TO are that much better than CJ? I'm just trying to understand the logic.1. If you're advocating waiting for TJ because the price of ANY elite WR is too high, then fine. But then don't say CJ specifically.2. If you're advocating waiting for TJ because CJ isn't as good as the other WR's, then that's another story. If that is the case, which WR's do you like better than CJ as he's a consensus top 3 pick? By saying that he's going to get the same or closer production (something he's done in only 1 of his 6 years), then do you think TJ deserves a top 5 ranking? Who do you think will outperform TJ?

Well, the intent of my post was to respond to the OPs assertion that Housh would pass up Johnson this year. But since you asked...1. I wouldn't say that the price of ANY elite WR is too high. It really depends on where you are in the draft, and whether or not you think you can get good value by picking a WR in round 2 and waiting on a RB. 2. Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne, Steve Smith, Larry Fitzgerald, Terrell Owens, Torry Holt, and Roy Williams are all WRs I would take before I take Chad Johnson. If Chad lasts until all of these guys are gone, I would most certainly take him regardless of if TJ will be left 2 rounds later. The problem is, that situation is quite unlikely as CJ is often the 2nd or 3rd WR off the board.

That's fine then. I personally wouldn't rank all those WR's ahead of CJ, but the difference between them is close enough that it's warranted. I would caution, though, your statement "knowing" that TJ will get as much or close to the same production as CJ. Again, last year was the first time that's happened and I think it's far more likely that CJ produces at an elite level substantially above Housh than the 2 performing close to each other. While I like Housh a lot, there's just too much enamorment with his season last year when it really wasn't THAT great and was the 1st time in his career he did so.

 

[Mr. Pink]

2006 Final Red Zone Targets:

TJ House - 22

Chris Henry - 14

Chad Johnson - 11

Discuss...

 

[gianmarco]

2006 Final Red Zone Targets:TJ House - 22Chris Henry - 14Chad Johnson - 11Discuss...

Maybe come back with the same #'s for 2002-2005 and let's see what those show. Then we can decide how excited to get about 1 year's worth of #'s.

 

[strattkatt]

I agree with Muses May writeup about these two WR's. What really gets me is all the FBG experts constantly talking about value - then ranking CJ #1 or #2. I just read Jason Wood's take on a FaceOff. I usually give Jason extra weight on the PD along with Dodds and Henry, but I couldn't disagree more with Jason's perspective on CJ and TJ. Housh is the better value. CJ needs to start living up to his annual #1 ranking if that's where the experts are going to continue placing him for another 3 years. Chad = Overrated. TJ= Underrated. Period.

 

[Block]

This has nothing to do with Johnson's skill and everything to do with hype. Johnson hyped himself so much that other teams took him away, and that gave Housh the opportunities he had. If Housh significantly outperforms Johnson, teams will focus on Housh, and Johnson will perform.

Yin and Yang, but Johnson is more talented.

 

[gianmarco]

I agree with Muses May writeup about these two WR's. What really gets me is all the FBG experts constantly talking about value - then ranking CJ #1 or #2. I just read Jason Wood's take on a FaceOff. I usually give Jason extra weight on the PD along with Dodds and Henry, but I couldn't disagree more with Jason's perspective on CJ and TJ. Housh is the better value. CJ needs to start living up to his annual #1 ranking if that's where the experts are going to continue placing him for another 3 years. Chad = Overrated. TJ= Underrated. Period.

Fantasy points scored the last 4 yrs among WR's:CJ has finished 3rd, 9th, 4th, and 4th

Harrison has finished 5th, 9th, 9th, and 1st.

Holt has finished 2nd, 7th, 6th, and 6th.

Steve Smith has finished 15th, out, 1st, and 8th.

How is that overrated? Who has outperformed him over the last 4 yrs? He's had a higher average finish than ANY other WR over the last 4 yrs and has never failed to be in the top 10. Please state ANY fact to support the claim that he is overrated with those finishes and consistency? Do you even know who Chad Johnson is?

 

[gianmarco]

Guys. Houshmanzadeh has gotten 1000 yds once in his career. He's never scored double digit TD's like a lot of the elite WR's. He is a #2 fantasy WR, not a #1. What is it with him and his value as if he's the second coming? He's not. He has great value, yes, but he's not a #1 WR. He's never even cracked the top 10 in fantasy scoring. 1081 yds and 9 TDs as a best season is not #1 material. Chad's last 4 years are ALL better than Housh's career year in 2006.

This comparison isn't even close.

 

[joffer]

in PPR format Housh had the #3 PPG last year

 

[Mr. Pink]

Guys. Houshmanzadeh has gotten 1000 yds once in his career. He's never scored double digit TD's like a lot of the elite WR's. He is a #2 fantasy WR, not a #1. What is it with him and his value as if he's the second coming? He's not. He has great value, yes, but he's not a #1 WR. He's never even cracked the top 10 in fantasy scoring. 1081 yds and 9 TDs as a best season is not #1 material. Chad's last 4 years are ALL better than Housh's career year in 2006.

This comparison isn't even close.

All right, this is where you lose me. Let me begin by saying that I didn't jump into this thread with a bias on either side. I mentioned RZ targets earlier, as I think it is a significant stat and one that would suggest TJ's production this season could improve by a figure that is exponentially greater than CJ's. For the record, I think CJ is the better receiver, however to suggest that the comparison isn't even close is off base. TJ's production has improved each season, he is clearly the favored RZ target, and has one of the best target to reception ratios (roughly 70%) among the top 60 WRs over the last 3 seasons. To say nothing of the fact that he outscored CJ last year on a PPG basis and you're going to suggest the comparison isn't even close?I don't mean to come off sounding condescending, but I noticed that you're new to the board. We have a lot of great FF people that share info and opinions here. What impresses no-one here is an "I'm right and the rest of you are wrong, and that's all there is to it" attitude. Relax and have fun here.

Oh and BTW, welcome to the Shark Pool.

 

[RC94]

Both entered the league in 2001. Taking out their rookie year, here are their stats since 2002:

Chad Johnson:

2002 - 69 rec, 1166 yds, 5 TDs

2003 - 90 rec, 1355 yds, 10 TDs

2004 - 95 rec, 1274 yds, 9 TDs

2005 - 97 rec, 1432 yds, 9 TDs

2006 - 87 rec, 1369 yds, 7 TDs

T.J. Houshmandzadeh:

2002 - 41 rec, 492 yds, 1 TD

2003 - 0 rec, 0 yds, 0 TDs

2004 - 73 rec, 978 yds, 4 TDs

2005 - 78 rec, 956 yds, 7 TDs

2006 - 90 rec, 1081 yds, 9 TDs

I didn't take out Chad Johnson's 2 best games of each year, though, so I guess these stats aren't really that relevant.

 

[gianmarco]

Guys. Houshmanzadeh has gotten 1000 yds once in his career. He's never scored double digit TD's like a lot of the elite WR's. He is a #2 fantasy WR, not a #1. What is it with him and his value as if he's the second coming? He's not. He has great value, yes, but he's not a #1 WR. He's never even cracked the top 10 in fantasy scoring. 1081 yds and 9 TDs as a best season is not #1 material. Chad's last 4 years are ALL better than Housh's career year in 2006.

This comparison isn't even close.

All right, this is where you lose me. Let me begin by saying that I didn't jump into this thread with a bias on either side. I mentioned RZ targets earlier, as I think it is a significant stat and one that would suggest TJ's production this season could improve by a figure that is exponentially greater than CJ's. For the record, I think CJ is the better receiver, however to suggest that the comparison isn't even close is off base. TJ's production has improved each season, he is clearly the favored RZ target, and has one of the best target to reception ratios (roughly 70%) among the top 60 WRs over the last 3 seasons. To say nothing of the fact that he outscored CJ last year on a PPG basis and you're going to suggest the comparison isn't even close?I don't mean to come off sounding condescending, but I noticed that you're new to the board. We have a lot of great FF people that share info and opinions here. What impresses no-one here is an "I'm right and the rest of you are wrong, and that's all there is to it" attitude. Relax and have fun here.

Oh and BTW, welcome to the Shark Pool.

I'm relaxed. And no, I don't think it's close. I completely understand that Housh has been improving. I also understand that Housh outscored CJ in a ppg last year.But......

1. That's 1 out of the past 5 years.

2. CJ has been in the top 10 in FF points for WR's the last 4 years in a row.

3. TJ has NEVER been in the top 10 in FF point for WR's.

4. One year is not enough to set a "trend"

5. The overall consensus among TJ supporters is that he's a lock to repeat his #'s. He's not. It's as if he's going to keep improving until, maybe, in the year 2011, he might end up with 2700 yds and 28 TDs.

I'm not knocking TJ. I like the guy a lot and I can pronounce his name too. I also think he's a FANTASTIC value for where he's being drafted. And I think he's turned into one of the most consistent WR's in terms of fantasy production (and NFL production). All that being said, he's not CJ and the notion that he surpasses CJ this year as if it's the inevitable (Housh continues to improve every year, etc.) really has no basis. I think we're much more likely to have witnessed Housh's career year in 2006 than we are to watch him overtake CJ in terms of stats and production. There just is no evidence, aside from 1 year (yes, I know, last year) to suggest otherwise. I'm hearing the argument, but I just don't buy it, and no, I don't think it's close. CJ is a #1 WR and TJ is a #2 WR, both on the field and in fantasy terms. I just don't understand the suggestions above to pass on CJ so you can take TJ later because he'll likely outscore him or come really close to it.

 

[lebowski]

This "Housh is better than CJ stuff" is really kinda silly. Housh is going into his 7th year and he's had all of ONE 1000 yd season, and it was last year. And he barely made it at 1081 (I know, I know, he missed some games). The only reason he was respectable was the 9 TDs (another career high).

http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index...&st=0

Complete Edit

CJ, on the other hand, has FIVE straight 1000 yd seasons (actually, all between 1166 yds and 1432 yds) and has had TD totals of 10, 9, 9, and 7 the last 4 years.

Seriously, who is the better player? Who would you rather rely on based on past performance? Housh has one year where he's somewhat on par with CJ and now all of a sudden he's even better than him?

CJ has led the AFC in receiving yds FOUR years in a row. That's the same AFC that has Marvin Harrison and Reggie Wayne and Andre Johnson and Lee Evans.

CJ has been a model of consistency until last year when he was more inconsistent, but yet he still put up the #'s when it counted. Now, there's no question that Housh is a tremendous value pick for where he's going, but to say he's better than CJ and is the guy to target instead of CJ is downright silly. Chad Johnson is an elite WR and worthy of top 3 WR pick without question. Since his 2nd year in the league when he became a starter, he's produced at this level. 5 yrs of production vs. 1 yr of production is hardly a trend reversal. You will not see Housh outperform CJ this year. Lock it up.

ETA--Oh, and he's never caught less than 87 balls in the last 4 years.

Thank you for a voice of reason. You shouldn't just look at one year when projecting statistics. Everyone is ALWAYS trying to figure out when player A is going to overtake player B. Reggie Wayne will overtake Marvin Harrison, Housh over CJ, MJD over Freddy T., etc. I have guys in my league who try to stay ahead of this curve every year and every year they end up with a team of talented youth who are 2 to 3 years away from breaking out. You HAVE to keep in mind proven players are proven players for a reason. YES, I'm sure a couple of these overtaking situations may happen this year. But, go ahead and keep drafting a team of players who are going to break out this year. Honestly, I haven't seen it work yet.

 

[Peyton Marino]

I think we're much more likely to have witnessed Housh's career year in 2006 than we are to watch him overtake CJ in terms of stats and production.

No way. In 14 games last year Housh put up 1080 yards and 9 TDs. Had he played all 16 games, he absolutely, without a doubt would have at least matched CJs overall production. The only reason I won't put him ahead of Chad is that I expect him to get injured and miss a couple games every season. He's shown to be injury prone over his career, and that's really his only downside.What about TJ Houshmanzadeh makes you think he'll experience a decrease in his numbers this year? Especially with Henry out for half the season. TJ has shown a gradual increase in his numbers each year since he came into the league. What makes you think that trend won't continue this year?

 

[Keith Lewis]

I own Chad Johnson in all 3 of my leagues. After reading the OP great analysis I have decided to trade CJ in all leagues and will accept a 2nd tier Defense or a 3rd round rookie pick if other options get exhausted. Thanks to the OP who will hopefully save my season!

 

[Keith Lewis]

I also suggest to pick up TJ Whoseyourmomma in every league you are in, the "Championship" commercial is just too cool to not own TJ.

 

[gianmarco]

I think we're much more likely to have witnessed Housh's career year in 2006 than we are to watch him overtake CJ in terms of stats and production.

No way. In 14 games last year Housh put up 1080 yards and 9 TDs. Had he played all 16 games, he absolutely, without a doubt would have at least matched CJs overall production. The only reason I won't put him ahead of Chad is that I expect him to get injured and miss a couple games every season. He's shown to be injury prone over his career, and that's really his only downside.What about TJ Houshmanzadeh makes you think he'll experience a decrease in his numbers this year? Especially with Henry out for half the season. TJ has shown a gradual increase in his numbers each year since he came into the league. What makes you think that trend won't continue this year?

I'll answer your question, but before I do, my question to you is do you think his #'s will increase infinitely? Is it a given that because he's gradually done better that he'll continue to do better until he retires? Or do you think there might possibly be a ceiling where his #'s max out.I'll answer why I think last year is close to his max. Because TJ Houshmanzadeh is the perfect #2 WR. He goes over the middle, he catches near everything thrown to him, and yes, he's a good redzone target. And he helps CJ be a better #1. And he's realiable when CJ gets a lot of coverage. But he is not a #1 WR talent and his #'s show that. I see him as a perennial 900 yd/7-8 TD WR. That's his role and he does it well. He is not CJ nor does he have the talent. CJ can put up 1400 yds and 10+ TDs in a season. He's done it already. TJ hasn't and probably never will. Just because he's done better doesn't mean that he'll ever get there. Very rarely do you see #2 WR's put up stats good enough to be an elite WR and be a true #1 WR in terms of fantasy football. Reggie Wayne is the exception. Fitz/Boldin are the exception. Housh is close to it, but just isn't at that level.

As pointed out above, everyone is always expecting and waiting for the #2 to overtake the #1 just because their #'s get a little better. CJ has been putting up these same #'s since his SECOND year in the league without falter. He is as elite a WR as there is. While he may not finish the year #1, you KNOW he's going to be in the top 10 and likely top 5 barring injury. Housh, with all his improvement, has never matched that production.

With TJ Houshmanzadeh's talent level and role in the offense, I would be really surprised if he improved over last year. Of course there's no way to predict, but guys that have been in the league as long as he has (going into his 7th year) don't just continue to up their production year after year. He's currently at or very close to his ceiling. CJ's ceiling is considerably higher.

 

[gianmarco]

Let me also add that the guy that's an even better value than TJ is Driver. That guy is constantly underrated and gets drafted around the same spot as TJ, but puts up WR1 #'s. Not to hijack the thread, but as good as TJ is for where he's drafted, Driver is considerably better.

ETA--Just took a quick look at the FanEx draft. Housh went at pick 3.4 and Driver at 4.11. That, to me, is insane, but seems to be happening a lot this year. Driver has 3 straight years of 1200+ yds and around 85 receptions and finished 5th overall last year. Yet TJ is going a full round earlier. Threads like this keep pushing TJ's value down, actually, as people are drafting him higher and higher. I really don't understand.

 

[Mr. Pink]

Let me also add that the guy that's an even better value than TJ is Driver. That guy is constantly underrated and gets drafted around the same spot as TJ, but puts up WR1 #'s. Not to hijack the thread, but as good as TJ is for where he's drafted, Driver is considerably better.ETA--Just took a quick look at the FanEx draft. Housh went at pick 3.4 and Driver at 4.11. That, to me, is insane, but seems to be happening a lot this year. Driver has 3 straight years of 1200+ yds and around 85 receptions and finished 5th overall last year. Yet TJ is going a full round earlier. Threads like this keep pushing TJ's value down, actually, as people are drafting him higher and higher. I really don't understand.

OK, now you're tugging at my heart strings. I love Driver and will continue to target him in my drafts b/c he's so undervalued. I think the central argument here, relative to CJ and TJ is value. I agree that TJ getting taken so early in FanEx is questionable. I may still draft him a bit higher than Driver based on age and upside, but 1 and 1/2 round higher? Probably not.Still, TJ may represent better value in the late 4th (where he should be drafted) than CJ in the early to mid 2nd. Rather than comparing the two receivers against each other, perhaps we could make better use of our time and talents comparing their draft positions and where we can find better value. I will continue to believe that, while TJ may not exceed CJ in production, he represents better value. That is how I choose to approach the debate in my upcoming drafts.

 

[gianmarco]

Let me also add that the guy that's an even better value than TJ is Driver. That guy is constantly underrated and gets drafted around the same spot as TJ, but puts up WR1 #'s. Not to hijack the thread, but as good as TJ is for where he's drafted, Driver is considerably better.ETA--Just took a quick look at the FanEx draft. Housh went at pick 3.4 and Driver at 4.11. That, to me, is insane, but seems to be happening a lot this year. Driver has 3 straight years of 1200+ yds and around 85 receptions and finished 5th overall last year. Yet TJ is going a full round earlier. Threads like this keep pushing TJ's value down, actually, as people are drafting him higher and higher. I really don't understand.

OK, now you're tugging at my heart strings. I love Driver and will continue to target him in my drafts b/c he's so undervalued. I think the central argument here, relative to CJ and TJ is value. I agree that TJ getting taken so early in FanEx is questionable. I may still draft him a bit higher than Driver based on age and upside, but 1 and 1/2 round higher? Probably not.Still, TJ may represent better value in the late 4th (where he should be drafted) than CJ in the early to mid 2nd. Rather than comparing the two receivers against each other, perhaps we could make better use of our time and talents comparing their draft positions and where we can find better value. I will continue to believe that, while TJ may not exceed CJ in production, he represents better value. That is how I choose to approach the debate in my upcoming drafts.

That's a completely different story then. A that point, you're comparing the value TJ possess to other elite WR's (i.e. Holt, S. Smith, etc.), not CJ vs. TJ as you pointed out. And I agree that that may be the case, although a lot of that also depends on scoring and roster requirements. But when I read the OP and see that Chad is nothing more than a mediocre WR and read that TJ is better, I just can't agree with that. But hey, at least we're both Driver lovers