Chargers reward Smith with five-year, $11M extension (1 Viewer)

[Mr. PadresLakers]

The Chargers, who made the playoffs for the third time in four years, rewarded general manager A.J. Smith with a five-year, $11 million extension that will keep him in charge through the 2014 season.

Smith has been general manager and executive vice president since 2003. Last year, 11 Chargers, many drafted by Smith, went to the Pro Bowl during a 14-2 season. This season, guard Kris Dielman and cornerback Antonio Cromartie made the Pro Bowl for the first time. Over the past four years, the Chargers have won 46 regular-season games.

Following the Chargers' season-ending victory over the Raiders, owner Dean Spanos called Smith, 58, into his office and asked him if he wanted to stay with the franchise for a long period of time. Over the course of the day, both sides negotiated the five-year deal. Smith signed it Monday. His contract was set to expire after the 2009 season.

The $2.2 million average is believed to make Smith the third highest-paid general manager in the NFL. Bill Parcells, who accepted the director of football operations job in Miami, is believed to have signed a $3 million-per-year deal. Matt Millen of the Lions is making around $2.5 million.

A year ago, Spanos had to make a major decision about the direction of the team. Marty Schottenheimer was the head coach, Smith was the general manager, and the two weren't getting along very well. Spanos initially decided to give Schottenheimer a one-year extension but decided to fire him after several top assistant coaches were allowed to leave. Schottenheimer was under a lot of heat for not winning a playoff game in San Diego.

Smith gambled by hiring Norv Turner as head coach. Turner had set up the Chargers offense in 2001 when he was the team's offensive coordinator, also setting up the running offense for halfback LaDainian Tomlinson.

After a 1-3 start, the Chargers finished 11-5 and won the AFC West.

During the past two seasons, Smith has locked up most of the best young players on the team to long-term contracts.

Senior writer John Clayton covers the NFL for ESPN.com.

 

[Floyd The Barber]

Smith has done a pretty good job by NFL standards, but the outworking of his decision to hitch his wagon to Phillip Rivers over Drew Brees is what will define his tenure. And so far I'm not liking what I see.

 

[Pip's Invitation]

Matt Millen of the Lions is making around $2.5 million.

This is nuts. The worst GM in the league is also the second-highest-paid?

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

I know some people here don't like him, but he's done an amazing job of turning the team around from 1-15 (the year before he and Butler came on board) and a perennial joke to a solid contender with lots of Pro Bowlers. (Not just a team filled with Pro Bowlers, but young ones who are signed long-term; and the team is in great cap shape.) Eleven million over five years seems underpaid when compared to what even average coaches are making.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

Matt Millen of the Lions is making around $2.5 million.

This is nuts.

That is pretty funny.

The worst GM in the league is also the second-highest-paid?

Parcells isn't a GM, so I think that makes Millen the first-highest paid.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

I hope the Chargers can lock up Buddy Nix next. If he ends up as GM of the Falcons I'd be happy for him, but as a Charger fan I'd hate to see him leave.

 

[Interseptopus]

He's done a pretty well job with that franchise- but I think the main reason behind this is because you could see a couple GM jobs open around the league. For example, MIA could throw a LOT of money his way and lure him away from SD.

Great move by SD to make sure no one will take him away from them- he's the reason they are as good as they are. Brees/Rivers doesn't even matter- butting heads with 14-2 Marty Schottenheimer doesn't matter. He has done a great job- he deserves a raise

 

[mad sweeney]

I know some people here don't like him, but he's done an amazing job of turning the team around from 1-15 (the year before he and Butler came on board) and a perennial joke to a solid contender with lots of Pro Bowlers. (Not just a team filled with Pro Bowlers, but young ones who are signed long-term; and the team is in great cap shape.) Eleven million over five years seems underpaid when compared to what even average coaches are making.

The first couple years of that were Butler, Smith doesn't get credit for that. Cancer doesn't care how good a person you are which is the only reason Smith has the job. He's done some good work since he took over, but the turnaround was engineered by JB, not Smith.

 

[Mr. PadresLakers]

I know some people here don't like him, but he's done an amazing job of turning the team around from 1-15 (the year before he and Butler came on board) and a perennial joke to a solid contender with lots of Pro Bowlers. (Not just a team filled with Pro Bowlers, but young ones who are signed long-term; and the team is in great cap shape.) Eleven million over five years seems underpaid when compared to what even average coaches are making.

The first couple years of that were Butler, Smith doesn't get credit for that. Cancer doesn't care how good a person you are which is the only reason Smith has the job. He's done some good work since he took over, but the turnaround was engineered by JB, not Smith.

David Boston and Marcellus Wiley were John Butler guys right? What year did A.J. Smith officially take over?

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

I know some people here don't like him, but he's done an amazing job of turning the team around from 1-15 (the year before he and Butler came on board) and a perennial joke to a solid contender with lots of Pro Bowlers. (Not just a team filled with Pro Bowlers, but young ones who are signed long-term; and the team is in great cap shape.) Eleven million over five years seems underpaid when compared to what even average coaches are making.

The first couple years of that were Butler, Smith doesn't get credit for that. Cancer doesn't care how good a person you are which is the only reason Smith has the job. He's done some good work since he took over, but the turnaround was engineered by JB, not Smith.

I think very highly of John Butler. But the Chargers' roster has very few of Butler's players on it. LaDainian is a huge one, but other than that I don't think there are many. (Jamal Williams was a Beathard pick.) And while going from 1-15 to 5-11 to 8-8 to 4-12 is the beginning of a turnaround, the team didn't have a winning season when he was here.

 

[mad sweeney]

I know some people here don't like him, but he's done an amazing job of turning the team around from 1-15 (the year before he and Butler came on board) and a perennial joke to a solid contender with lots of Pro Bowlers. (Not just a team filled with Pro Bowlers, but young ones who are signed long-term; and the team is in great cap shape.) Eleven million over five years seems underpaid when compared to what even average coaches are making.

The first couple years of that were Butler, Smith doesn't get credit for that. Cancer doesn't care how good a person you are which is the only reason Smith has the job. He's done some good work since he took over, but the turnaround was engineered by JB, not Smith.

David Boston and Marcellus Wiley were John Butler guys right? What year did A.J. Smith officially take over?

No GM is right 100% of the time. I'm sure there're a lot of Butler guys that didn't work out. Just like there are a lot of Smith guys that haven't worked out, as well as lots of guys from every GM's tenure that didn't work out.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

David Boston and Marcellus Wiley were John Butler guys right?

Yes. Smith was there too, so I don't know if he can entirely escape blame for them. But Smith's and Butler's approaches to free agency were/are quite different, and Smith did undo a number of mistakes in that area as soon as he took over.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

I'm sure there're a lot of Butler guys that didn't work out. Just like there are a lot of Smith guys that haven't worked out, as well as lots of guys from every GM's tenure that didn't work out.

It's actually fairly difficult to name Smith guys that haven't worked out.

 

[mad sweeney]

I know some people here don't like him, but he's done an amazing job of turning the team around from 1-15 (the year before he and Butler came on board) and a perennial joke to a solid contender with lots of Pro Bowlers. (Not just a team filled with Pro Bowlers, but young ones who are signed long-term; and the team is in great cap shape.) Eleven million over five years seems underpaid when compared to what even average coaches are making.

The first couple years of that were Butler, Smith doesn't get credit for that. Cancer doesn't care how good a person you are which is the only reason Smith has the job. He's done some good work since he took over, but the turnaround was engineered by JB, not Smith.

I think very highly of John Butler. But the Chargers' roster has very few of Butler's players on it. LaDainian is a huge one, but other than that I don't think there are many. (Jamal Williams was a Beathard pick.) And while going from 1-15 to 5-11 to 8-8 to 4-12 is the beginning of a turnaround, the team didn't have a winning when he was here.

True, but had Butler not died he would still be the architect of the team, not Smith. And he was still who started the turnaround, not Smith. MAybe Butler wouldn't have done as good a job as Smith, we'll never know. I'm just saying you can't give credit to Smith for the first few seasons of the turnaround. Nobody could've turned that mess theat Beatherd left into a winning team in just a few seasons. The trade for Cryin Ryan ruined that team for years after Leaf left.

 

[Mr. PadresLakers]

David Boston and Marcellus Wiley were John Butler guys right?

Yes. Smith was there too, so I don't know if he can entirely escape blame for them. But Smith's and Butler's approaches to free agency were/are quite different, and Smith did undo a number of mistakes in that area as soon as he took over.

Yeah that was kind of my point. Butler was the type of GM who looks to sign the biggest name out there in free agency while Smith is the type of GM who looks to build from within by solid drafting and locking up his own players long term early in their careers.

 

[mad sweeney]

David Boston and Marcellus Wiley were John Butler guys right?

Yes. Smith was there too, so I don't know if he can entirely escape blame for them. But Smith's and Butler's approaches to free agency were/are quite different, and Smith did undo a number of mistakes in that area as soon as he took over.

When he took over the team was in a LOT better shape than when Butler came in.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

What year did A.J. Smith officially take over?

I believe he took over just days before the 2003 draft. There were some stinkers in that draft (e.g., Sammy Davis), but I don't know how much of that draft prep was really run by Smith.Here are Smith's drafts from 2004 on. Players in bold are still with the team.

2007

1 1 30 30 Craig Davis WR Louisiana State

2 2 5 37 Eric Weddle DB Utah

3 3 33 96 Anthony Waters LB Clemson

4 4 30 129 Scott Chandler TE Iowa

5 5 35 172 Legedu Naanee WR Boise State

6 7 30 240 Brandon Siler LB Florida

2006

1 1 19 19 Antonio Cromartie DB Florida State

2 2 18 50 Marcus McNeill T Auburn

3 3 17 81 Charlie Whitehurst QB Clemson

4 5 19 151 Tim Dobbins LB Iowa State

5 6 18 187 Jeromey Clary T Kansas State

6 6 19 188 Kurt Smith K Virginia

7 7 17 225 Chase Page DT North Carolina

8 7 19 227 Jimmy Martin C Virginia Tech

2005

1 1 12 12 Shawne Merriman LB Maryland

2 1 28 28 Luis Castillo DT Northwestern

3 2 29 61 Vincent Jackson WR Northern Colorado

4 4 29 130 Darren Sproles RB Kansas State

5 5 28 164 Wesley Britt T Alabama

6 6 3 177 Wes Sims G Oklahoma

7 7 28 242 Scott Mruczkowski C Bowling Green

2004

1 1 4 4 Philip Rivers QB NC State

2 2 3 35 Igor Olshansky DT Oregon

3 3 2 65 Nate Kaeding K Iowa

4 3 3 66 Nick Hardwick C Purdue

5 4 2 98 Shaun Phillips DE Purdue

6 5 1 133 Dave Ball DE UCLA

7 5 22 154 Michael Turner RB Northern Illinois

8 6 4 169 Ryan Krause WR Nebraska-Omaha

9 7 3 204 Ryon Bingham DT Nebraska

10 7 8 209 Shane Olivea T Ohio State

11 7 53 254 Carlos Joseph T Miami (FL)

 

[mad sweeney]

I'm sure there're a lot of Butler guys that didn't work out. Just like there are a lot of Smith guys that haven't worked out, as well as lots of guys from every GM's tenure that didn't work out.

It's actually fairly difficult to name Smith guys that haven't worked out.

His hardball handling of Gates could easily be argued as a chief reason why they missed the playoffs that year. My point being that all GMs have guys/moves that don't work out. Naming off two players that didn't doesn't invalidate a GM's work.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

David Boston and Marcellus Wiley were John Butler guys right?

Yes. Smith was there too, so I don't know if he can entirely escape blame for them. But Smith's and Butler's approaches to free agency were/are quite different, and Smith did undo a number of mistakes in that area as soon as he took over.

When he took over the team was in a LOT better shape than when Butler came in.

Very true.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

His hardball handling of Gates could easily be argued as a chief reason why they missed the playoffs that year.

I don't see how. Not to rehash this, but (1) Gates missed only one game, while the Chargers missed the playoffs by two games; and (2) the reason Gates didn't play in week one was that he missed the deadline to report by one day because he missed his flight. Moreover (3) Gates (through his agent) was threatening to hold out until week 10 before AJ put him on the roster-exempt list; putting him on the list likely got him into camp much sooner than he otherwise would have reported.

 

[Mr. PadresLakers]

A couple relevant notes:

The number of Chargers locked up long term and the expected cap room available for the Chargers next year.

Contracts end in 2007

#7 Billy Volek: Four year contract thru 2007 season with an option for the 2008 season ($2.75M for 06-07)

#27 Bhawoh Jue: Signed three year contract thru 2007 season ($4.5M base guaranteed) #28 Steve Gregory: Signed 2 year contract as an undrafted rookie. Signed thru 2007 season.

#29 Drayton Florence: Signed five year contract thru 2007 season ($3.5M)

#63 Scott Mruczkowski: Signed three year contract thru 2007 season. #71 Cory Lekkerkerker: Signed 1 year contract thru 2007. Terms unknown.

#80 Malcom Floyd: Signed 1 year contract thru 2007. Terms unknown.

#82 Greg Camarillo: Signed one year contract thru 2007 season.

#91 Brandon McKinney: Signed two year contract thru 2007 season as an undrafted rookie.

#92 Marques Harris: Signed two year contract thru 2007 season.

#97 Ryon Bingham: Signed 1 year contract thru 2007. Terms unknown.

#98 Derrick Robinson: Signed 1 year contract thru 2007. Terms unknown

Contracts end in 2008

#42 Clinton Hart: Signed three year contract thru 2008 season. ($1.65M)

#50 David Binn: Signed five year contract thru 2008 season. ($4.065M base)

#52 Carlos Polk: Signed 2 year contract thru 2008. Terms unknown.

#79 Mike Goff: Signed five year contract thru 2008 season ($13.25M)

#72 Roman Oben: Remaining three years of contract thru 2006 season ($3.3M).

Signed two year extension thru 2008 season ($2M)

#86 Brandon Manumaleuna: Signed five year contract thru 2008 season ($8.35M

Contracts end in 2009

#6 Charlie Whitehurst: Four year contract signed thru 2009 season

#51 Tim Dobbins: . Signed four year contract thru 2009 season.

#56 Shawne Merriman: Signed five year contract thru 2009 season. ($11.33M guaranteed)

#65 Cory Withrow:Signed 3 year contract thru 2009

#73 Marcus McNeill: Signed four year contract thru 2009 season. #81 Kassim Osgood: Signed four year contract thru 2009 season. ($2.51M)

#83 Vincent Jackson: Signed five year contract thru 2009 season. #93 Luis Castillo: Signed five year contract thru 2009 season. ($4.664M)

#99 Igor Olshansky: Signed six year contract thru 2009 season ($4.515M

Contracts end in 2010

#20 Marlon McCree: Five year contract thru 2010 season. ($16M base guaranteed)

#25 Antonio Cromartie: Signed five ear contract thru 2010 season ($7.35M guaranteed base)

#17 Philip Rivers: Six year contract signed thru 2010 season ($40.5M base guaranteed)

#34 Andrew Pinnock: Signed five year contract thru 2010 season

#41 Lorenzo Neal: Original contract for three years thru 2005 season ($4.5M).

Extended additional 2 years thru 2007 season. ($1.54M) Signed 3 year extention thru 10 ($5.1M)

#54 Stephen Cooper: Signed one year contract thru 2006 season. Signed five year extensionthru 2010 ($15M)

#74 Jacques Cesaire: Signed five year contract thru 2010 season. ($4.1M)

#76 Jamal Williams: Signed five year extension thru 2010 season. (approx $27.5M)

#85 Antonio Gates: Originally signed one year contract for 2005 season ($380K base)

Signed 6 year extension that superseded original contract thru 2010 season. ($22.5M guaranteed)

#88 Eric Parker: Originally contracted thru 2006 season. Signed

five year extension thru 2010 season (potentially $13.5M

Contracts end in 2011

#21 LaDainian Tomlinson: Original six year contract. Signed eight year extension thru 2011 season.

(Guaranteed base $21M of approx $60M)

#57 Matt Wilhelm: Original contract one year thru 2006 season ($721,600). Signed five year extensionthru 2011 season (approx. $15M w/incentives)

#61 Nick Hardwick: Original three year contract 3-Year deal thru 2006 season. Signed six year extensionthru 2011 season. ($17M)

#70 Shane Olivea: Original contract three years thru 2006 season ($960,250) Signed six year extensionthru 2011. ($20M)

#5 Mike Scifres: Original five year contract thru 2007 season Signed four year contract extension through2011 season. ($4.155M base guaranteed)

Contracts end in 2012

#10 Nate Kaeding: Original three year contract thru 2006 season. Signed six year extension thru 2012season. ($8.7M base guaranteed )

#23 Quentin Jammer: Original six year contract thru 2007 ($12.6M) Signed five year extension thru 2012season ($16M base guaranteed)

#68 Kris Dielman: Signed one year contract thru 2006 season ($1.552M) signed 6 year contract $39M. $17M guaranteed over first 2 years. Signed thru 2012

#95 Shaun Phillips: Signed three year contract thru 2006 season ($1.268M), Signed 6 year extension thru 2012. $1M 07, $2.4M 08, $2.9M 09, $3.4M10, $3.9M 11, $4.4M 12 ($13M)

http://cfx.signonsandiego.com/sports/charg..._tracker_1.html

Stat of the Week

So you want to know how active your team will be with a good free-agency market coming up in three months? Here's a chart of how much cap space each team was due to have next spring as of Saturday, along with how many players each team has under contract:

Team Signed Players 2008 cap room

1. Tennessee 39 $40.85 million

2. San Diego 44 $33.03 million

3. Jacksonville 43 $32.69 million

4. Buffalo 49 $32.05 million

5. New Orleans 39 $31.69 million

6. Cincinnati 48 $31.45 million

7. San Francisco 48 $30.91 million

8. Cleveland 42 $30.31 million

9. Arizona 34 $30.27 million

10.N.Y. Jets 45 $27.72 million

11.Oakland 40 $25.98 million

12.Tampa Bay 48 $25.90 million

13.Miami 48 $25.56 million

14.N.Y. Giants 49 $24.47 million

15.Detroit 42 $23.50 million

16.Houston 43 $22.91 million

17.Dallas 40 $20.61 million

18.Kansas City 44 $20.27 million

19.Chicago 52 $19.80 million

20.Pittsburgh 43 $18.61 million

21.Green Bay 48 $18.37 million

22.Philadelphia 49 $17.17 million

23.Denver 49 $16.77 million

24.Minnesota 49 $14.88 million

25.New England 41 $10.93 million

26.St. Louis 45 $9.61 million

27.Seattle 44 $9.55 million

28.Indianapolis 48 $8.49 million

29.Carolina 35 $6.05 million

30.Atlanta 52 $5.79 million*

31.Baltimore 42 $5.00 million

32.Washington 45 -$20.72 million

* Not including unspecified potential rebate from contested return of Michael Vick's pro-rated signing bonus.

And yes, you read it right. The Washington Redskins are $20 million over the projected '08 cap, a number that will be reduced once the 'Skins convert some bonuses assigned to the '08 cap (including a hefty one paid to tight end Chris Cooley) to signing bonuses, which can be pro-rated over the life of the contract.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writ...9/week14/4.html

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

A couple relevant notes:The number of Chargers locked up long term and the expected cap room available for the Chargers next year.

{Deleted post. I need to double-check some things.}Edit: This list of long-term contracts looks correct, although it doesn't reflect the Chris Chambers trade or the Ryon Bingham extension, and it doesn't list this year's rookies. The other list I had appears to be off.

 

[tommyGunZ]

Huge to Dean Spanos for locking up AJ for 5 additional years. No GM has been better than Smith the past 4 years, IMO.

I agree with MT, it's hard to come up with Smith's mistakes. Cutting Wes Welker in 2004 is probably his biggest blunder, in hindsight.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

Cutting Wes Welker in 2004 is probably his biggest blunder, in hindsight.

I remember watching Welker in camp that year. Very impressive for an undrafted free agent. I loved his hustle. But he was an almost exact clone of Tim Dwight. (Not just because they were both white. They really brought pretty much the exact same skills and abilities to the table. Welker has improved since then, obviously.) The team didn't need two Tim Dwights. And while it would have made much more sense in hindsight to keep Welker over Dwight, it would have been a difficult decision at the time to go with the UDFA over the somewhat proven guy.But all that aside, cuts during training camp are made by coaches, not the GM. The GM brings 'em in, and the coaches decide which ones to keep.

 

[tommyGunZ]

Cutting Wes Welker in 2004 is probably his biggest blunder, in hindsight.

I remember watching Welker in camp that year. Very impressive for an undrafted free agent. I loved his hustle. But he was an almost exact clone of Tim Dwight. (Not just because they were both white. They really brought pretty much the exact same skills and abilities to the table. Welker has improved since then, obviously.) The team didn't need two Tim Dwights. And while it would have made much more sense in hindsight to keep Welker over Dwight, it would have been a difficult decision at the time to go with the UDFA over the somewhat proven guy.

I don't question the rationale - just the result. As you note, roster decisions at the margin are based on a multitude of factors, which didn't help Welker at the time.

But all that aside, cuts during training camp are made by coaches, not the GM. The GM brings 'em in, and the coaches decide which ones to keep.

Good point.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

What year did A.J. Smith officially take over?

I believe he took over just days before the 2003 draft. There were some stinkers in that draft (e.g., Sammy Davis), but I don't know how much of that draft prep was really run by Smith.Here are Smith's drafts from 2004 on. Players in bold are still with the team.

2007

1 1 30 30 Craig Davis WR Louisiana State

2 2 5 37 Eric Weddle DB Utah

3 3 33 96 Anthony Waters LB Clemson

4 4 30 129 Scott Chandler TE Iowa

5 5 35 172 Legedu Naanee WR Boise State

6 7 30 240 Brandon Siler LB Florida

2006

1 1 19 19 Antonio Cromartie DB Florida State

2 2 18 50 Marcus McNeill T Auburn

3 3 17 81 Charlie Whitehurst QB Clemson

4 5 19 151 Tim Dobbins LB Iowa State

5 6 18 187 Jeromey Clary T Kansas State

6 6 19 188 Kurt Smith K Virginia

7 7 17 225 Chase Page DT North Carolina

8 7 19 227 Jimmy Martin C Virginia Tech

2005

1 1 12 12 Shawne Merriman LB Maryland

2 1 28 28 Luis Castillo DT Northwestern

3 2 29 61 Vincent Jackson WR Northern Colorado

4 4 29 130 Darren Sproles RB Kansas State

5 5 28 164 Wesley Britt T Alabama

6 6 3 177 Wes Sims G Oklahoma

7 7 28 242 Scott Mruczkowski C Bowling Green

2004

1 1 4 4 Philip Rivers QB NC State

2 2 3 35 Igor Olshansky DT Oregon

3 3 2 65 Nate Kaeding K Iowa

4 3 3 66 Nick Hardwick C Purdue

5 4 2 98 Shaun Phillips DE Purdue

6 5 1 133 Dave Ball DE UCLA

7 5 22 154 Michael Turner RB Northern Illinois

8 6 4 169 Ryan Krause WR Nebraska-Omaha

9 7 3 204 Ryon Bingham DT Nebraska

10 7 8 209 Shane Olivea T Ohio State

11 7 53 254 Carlos Joseph T Miami (FL)

I should add in some of his UDFAs:WR Eric Parker

WR Malcom Floyd

WR Wes Welker (cut)

DE/DT Jacques Cesaire

WR Kassim Osgood

TE Antonio Gates

S Clinton Hart

LB Stephen Cooper

CB Steve Gregory

DT Brandon McKinney

CB Cletis Gordon

LB Jyles Tucker

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

BTW, I heard somebody make the claim that the Packers are the youngest team in the NFL.

When I heard a similar claim last season, I did the roster math and the Chargers were younger no matter which way it was calculated -- entire roster, just starters, just starters plus key reserves, etc. (IIRC, it was even true if you didn't count Brett Favre.)

I haven't done the roster math this season, but I'd expect the same result since the all of the Chargers' draft picks made the team, and the Chargers let several older veterans go (Donnie Edwards, Roman Oben, etc).

 

[Despyzer]

Smith has done a pretty good job by NFL standards, but the outworking of his decision to hitch his wagon to Phillip Rivers over Drew Brees is what will define his tenure. And so far I'm not liking what I see.

Even then, Smith didn't have a lot of realistic options. Going into his final year, Brees had only had one decent season - his most recent one. He'd already spent a handful of dough on Brees' successor because the coaching staff had been telling him that Brees couldn't get it done and that Rivers was the man. Then, Brees ends up needing rotator cuff surgery to his THROWING arm because Shotty had thrown him out there for a meaningless game against the Broncos because an incentive clause would kick in on his contract if they hit ten or more wins. So, faced with a smallish QB with a gimpy throwing arm or a sky's-the-limit young gun that he was already financially obligated to, AJ went with Rivers, just like any GM would have done 99% of the time.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

Cutting Wes Welker in 2004 is probably his biggest blunder, in hindsight.

I remember watching Welker in camp that year. Very impressive for an undrafted free agent. I loved his hustle. But he was an almost exact clone of Tim Dwight. (Not just because they were both white. They really brought pretty much the exact same skills and abilities to the table. Welker has improved since then, obviously.) The team didn't need two Tim Dwights. And while it would have made much more sense in hindsight to keep Welker over Dwight, it would have been a difficult decision at the time to go with the UDFA over the somewhat proven guy.

I don't question the rationale - just the result. As you note, roster decisions at the margin are based on a multitude of factors, which didn't help Welker at the time.

But all that aside, cuts during training camp are made by coaches, not the GM. The GM brings 'em in, and the coaches decide which ones to keep.

Good point.

Im pretty sure cuts are a joint decision made by the coaching staff and the front office. Thinking one would act without the other just doesnt make sense

 

[BoltBacker]

His hardball handling of Gates could easily be argued as a chief reason why they missed the playoffs that year.

I don't see how. Not to rehash this, but (1) Gates missed only one game, while the Chargers missed the playoffs by two games; and (2) the reason Gates didn't play in week one was that he missed the deadline to report by one day because he missed his flight. Moreover (3) Gates (through his agent) was threatening to hold out until week 10 before AJ put him on the roster-exempt list; putting him on the list likely got him into camp much sooner than he otherwise would have reported.

I hope you have that as a hotkey on your keyboard by now so you don't have to re-type it out each time. It's amazing to me that people still don't get it.

 

[BoltBacker]

Huge to Dean Spanos for locking up AJ for 5 additional years. No GM has been better than Smith the past 4 years, IMO.I agree with MT, it's hard to come up with Smith's mistakes. Cutting Wes Welker in 2004 is probably his biggest blunder, in hindsight.

I'd feel a lot more comfortable going into these playoffs if AJ would have just bit his tongue the past few years and offered to beat any offer Donnie Edwards found on the FA market. The flame-thrower remarks in the media ensured his departure and AJ has yet to find a replacement. We'll see if MLB comes back to haunt them in the playoffs.After that I'd probably go with the Dobbins pick(which I liked at the time). Only a 4th rounder but he hasn't impressed me.

 

[switz]

I know some people here don't like him, but he's done an amazing job of turning the team around from 1-15 (the year before he and Butler came on board) and a perennial joke to a solid contender with lots of Pro Bowlers. (Not just a team filled with Pro Bowlers, but young ones who are signed long-term; and the team is in great cap shape.) Eleven million over five years seems underpaid when compared to what even average coaches are making.

The first couple years of that were Butler, Smith doesn't get credit for that. Cancer doesn't care how good a person you are which is the only reason Smith has the job. He's done some good work since he took over, but the turnaround was engineered by JB, not Smith.

John Butler was an awesome GM, but to say he deserves sole credit for the early years is ignorant. Smith was DPP and had a TON of say in the draft. Butler and Smith always worked together and were as good a FO team as I've seen. Sure Butler taught Smith all he knows, so you could also give Butler credit for what Smith is doing now, but then that'd be the same error in giving Smith no credit for what the FO did when Butler was GM.The reason Smith got the job was because he had proven himself fit for the role BEFORE Butler passed, as he had a large role in the decision making process already, and basically steered the ship while Butler was fighting the disease. If he'd been proven incapable, they wouldn't have given him the job. Nor would he have gotten this extension.

 

[switz]

David Boston and Marcellus Wiley were John Butler guys right?

Yes. Smith was there too, so I don't know if he can entirely escape blame for them. But Smith's and Butler's approaches to free agency were/are quite different, and Smith did undo a number of mistakes in that area as soon as he took over.

When he took over the team was in a LOT better shape than when Butler came in.

And part of the reason it was in better shape was because of Smith's role in the FO.

 

[tommyGunZ]

Huge to Dean Spanos for locking up AJ for 5 additional years. No GM has been better than Smith the past 4 years, IMO.I agree with MT, it's hard to come up with Smith's mistakes. Cutting Wes Welker in 2004 is probably his biggest blunder, in hindsight.

I'd feel a lot more comfortable going into these playoffs if AJ would have just bit his tongue the past few years and offered to beat any offer Donnie Edwards found on the FA market. The flame-thrower remarks in the media ensured his departure and AJ has yet to find a replacement. We'll see if MLB comes back to haunt them in the playoffs.After that I'd probably go with the Dobbins pick(which I liked at the time). Only a 4th rounder but he hasn't impressed me.

Really? I don't think there's been much of a drop off at all from Edwards in the middle. Cooper and Wilhelm have been quietly solid all year (IMO) and I have read very little about Donnie's impact in KC. I've been impressed with Siler's special teams work, and am hopeful that Waters will make an impact next year after having a full year to recover. He was an absolute beast at Clemson.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

Cooper and Wilhelm were great in the second half of the season. When Wilhelm was out, Dobbins struggled. But Waters and Siler should provide better depth next year.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

Cooper and Wilhelm were great in the second half of the season. When Wilhelm was out, Dobbins struggled. But Waters and Siler should provide better depth next year.

I still think they should draft either LB or Oline first round this year.

 

[BoltBacker]

Cooper and Wilhelm were great in the second half of the season. When Wilhelm was out, Dobbins struggled. But Waters and Siler should provide better depth next year.

I thought Cooper was more solid in the second half and Wilhelm went from awful in the first half to spotty in the second half. He was better in coverage the second half but Wilhelm still doesn't make enough plays imo. Any time he's engaged by a blocker he's done. Cooper at least penetrates the LOS on occasion.Cooper may eventaully be an above average ILB but I still haven't seen any consistent play that would indicate to me Wilhelm will ever be better than average.Siler is just a beast on ST and I look forward to seeing him get a crack on at some extended playing time the next time there's an injury.

 

[Gold Plated Nails]

Cooper and Wilhelm were great in the second half of the season. When Wilhelm was out, Dobbins struggled. But Waters and Siler should provide better depth next year.

I still think they should draft either LB or Oline first round this year.

ILB and RT/G need to be the first rd pick, one of those 2, I totally agree. Other then that, we won't pick again until the 5th rd, eeck. (Granted we may get a supplimental 4 for Edwards).I agree with MT that Cooper has played well, especially the 2nd half. I dont agree with Wilhelm, I believe the team would be better off with a first rd talent in his spot and Mattr serve as a backup. Jury is out on SIler/Waters although Siler has been ace on special teams covering all year.

 

[BoltBacker]

Cooper and Wilhelm were great in the second half of the season. When Wilhelm was out, Dobbins struggled. But Waters and Siler should provide better depth next year.

I still think they should draft either LB or Oline first round this year.

Their group of LB's is very young and I'd much rather see them find an older leadership type guy on the inside than the types of guys that are typically available at the tail end of the first round. There may be some coaching changes around the league and a lot of vet LB's could find themselves on the wrong end of a rebuild.The need is at OL but AJ doesn't seem to like to take OL early very often.

 

[redman]

I know some people here don't like him, but he's done an amazing job of turning the team around from 1-15 (the year before he and Butler came on board) and a perennial joke to a solid contender with lots of Pro Bowlers. (Not just a team filled with Pro Bowlers, but young ones who are signed long-term; and the team is in great cap shape.) Eleven million over five years seems underpaid when compared to what even average coaches are making.

Agreed. He's done a phenomenal job drafting and acquiring talent. Right now the jury's out on his overall course as we have yet to see the ultimate course of a Norv Turner-led team, or of Phillip Rivers' development. If they're one-and-done in the playoffs this year, and Rivers is a flop, Smith's image will have a lot of tarnish on it.

 

[BoltBacker]

Huge to Dean Spanos for locking up AJ for 5 additional years. No GM has been better than Smith the past 4 years, IMO.I agree with MT, it's hard to come up with Smith's mistakes. Cutting Wes Welker in 2004 is probably his biggest blunder, in hindsight.

I'd feel a lot more comfortable going into these playoffs if AJ would have just bit his tongue the past few years and offered to beat any offer Donnie Edwards found on the FA market. The flame-thrower remarks in the media ensured his departure and AJ has yet to find a replacement. We'll see if MLB comes back to haunt them in the playoffs.After that I'd probably go with the Dobbins pick(which I liked at the time). Only a 4th rounder but he hasn't impressed me.

Really? I don't think there's been much of a drop off at all from Edwards in the middle. Cooper and Wilhelm have been quietly solid all year (IMO) and I have read very little about Donnie's impact in KC.

I really thought the "slow start" was a result in large part because of that Cooper/Wilhelm(inj at the start)/Dobbins group in the middle. In the NE/GB/KC/MIN losses they all played awful.

 

[BoltBacker]

I know some people here don't like him, but he's done an amazing job of turning the team around from 1-15 (the year before he and Butler came on board) and a perennial joke to a solid contender with lots of Pro Bowlers. (Not just a team filled with Pro Bowlers, but young ones who are signed long-term; and the team is in great cap shape.) Eleven million over five years seems underpaid when compared to what even average coaches are making.

Agreed. He's done a phenomenal job drafting and acquiring talent. Right now the jury's out on his overall course as we have yet to see the ultimate course of a Norv Turner-led team, or of Phillip Rivers' development. If they're one-and-done in the playoffs this year, and Rivers is a flop, Smith's image will have a lot of tarnish on it.

Which really seems strange to me since you single out Turner/Rivers. AT WORST Turner/Rivers lose in the first round of the playoffs... which is the BEST Marty/Brees ever accomplished while in SD.

 

[redman]

I know some people here don't like him, but he's done an amazing job of turning the team around from 1-15 (the year before he and Butler came on board) and a perennial joke to a solid contender with lots of Pro Bowlers. (Not just a team filled with Pro Bowlers, but young ones who are signed long-term; and the team is in great cap shape.) Eleven million over five years seems underpaid when compared to what even average coaches are making.

Agreed. He's done a phenomenal job drafting and acquiring talent. Right now the jury's out on his overall course as we have yet to see the ultimate course of a Norv Turner-led team, or of Phillip Rivers' development. If they're one-and-done in the playoffs this year, and Rivers is a flop, Smith's image will have a lot of tarnish on it.

Which really seems strange to me since you single out Turner/Rivers. AT WORST Turner/Rivers lose in the first round of the playoffs... which is the BEST Marty/Brees ever accomplished while in SD.

Sorry, but I'm just not a Turner fan. He's riding a largely veteran team's success, but is not a leader of it at all. I don't see this resurgence as having much of anything to do with him. I think we can agree that Rivers is not playing like he was a year ago when the decision to let Brees go seemed like a good one. Maybe it's an aberration, but if Brees continues to be a solid starter for NO while Rivers continues to falter, then that decision will absolutely be called into question. This is more of an longer term issue than you seemed to think I viewed it.

 

[Gold Plated Nails]

I know some people here don't like him, but he's done an amazing job of turning the team around from 1-15 (the year before he and Butler came on board) and a perennial joke to a solid contender with lots of Pro Bowlers. (Not just a team filled with Pro Bowlers, but young ones who are signed long-term; and the team is in great cap shape.) Eleven million over five years seems underpaid when compared to what even average coaches are making.

Agreed. He's done a phenomenal job drafting and acquiring talent. Right now the jury's out on his overall course as we have yet to see the ultimate course of a Norv Turner-led team, or of Phillip Rivers' development. If they're one-and-done in the playoffs this year, and Rivers is a flop, Smith's image will have a lot of tarnish on it.

Which really seems strange to me since you single out Turner/Rivers. AT WORST Turner/Rivers lose in the first round of the playoffs... which is the BEST Marty/Brees ever accomplished while in SD.

Sorry, but I'm just not a Turner fan. He's riding a largely veteran team's success, but is not a leader of it at all. I don't see this resurgence as having much of anything to do with him. I think we can agree that Rivers is not playing like he was a year ago when the decision to let Brees go seemed like a good one. Maybe it's an aberration, but if Brees continues to be a solid starter for NO while Rivers continues to falter, then that decision will absolutely be called into question. This is more of an longer term issue than you seemed to think I viewed it.

You do realize that Rivers is a 2 Time Division Champ and 25-7 in his 2 years starting? If that is faltering, sign me up baybay.

 

[redman]

I know some people here don't like him, but he's done an amazing job of turning the team around from 1-15 (the year before he and Butler came on board) and a perennial joke to a solid contender with lots of Pro Bowlers. (Not just a team filled with Pro Bowlers, but young ones who are signed long-term; and the team is in great cap shape.) Eleven million over five years seems underpaid when compared to what even average coaches are making.

Agreed. He's done a phenomenal job drafting and acquiring talent. Right now the jury's out on his overall course as we have yet to see the ultimate course of a Norv Turner-led team, or of Phillip Rivers' development. If they're one-and-done in the playoffs this year, and Rivers is a flop, Smith's image will have a lot of tarnish on it.

Which really seems strange to me since you single out Turner/Rivers. AT WORST Turner/Rivers lose in the first round of the playoffs... which is the BEST Marty/Brees ever accomplished while in SD.

Sorry, but I'm just not a Turner fan. He's riding a largely veteran team's success, but is not a leader of it at all. I don't see this resurgence as having much of anything to do with him. I think we can agree that Rivers is not playing like he was a year ago when the decision to let Brees go seemed like a good one. Maybe it's an aberration, but if Brees continues to be a solid starter for NO while Rivers continues to falter, then that decision will absolutely be called into question. This is more of an longer term issue than you seemed to think I viewed it.

You do realize that Rivers is a 2 Time Division Champ and 25-7 in his 2 years starting? If that is faltering, sign me up baybay.

Remarkable that he did that all by himself in a sport that most play as a team with 54 players.

 

[BoltBacker]

I know some people here don't like him, but he's done an amazing job of turning the team around from 1-15 (the year before he and Butler came on board) and a perennial joke to a solid contender with lots of Pro Bowlers. (Not just a team filled with Pro Bowlers, but young ones who are signed long-term; and the team is in great cap shape.) Eleven million over five years seems underpaid when compared to what even average coaches are making.

Agreed. He's done a phenomenal job drafting and acquiring talent. Right now the jury's out on his overall course as we have yet to see the ultimate course of a Norv Turner-led team, or of Phillip Rivers' development. If they're one-and-done in the playoffs this year, and Rivers is a flop, Smith's image will have a lot of tarnish on it.

Which really seems strange to me since you single out Turner/Rivers. AT WORST Turner/Rivers lose in the first round of the playoffs... which is the BEST Marty/Brees ever accomplished while in SD.

Sorry, but I'm just not a Turner fan. He's riding a largely veteran team's success, but is not a leader of it at all. I don't see this resurgence as having much of anything to do with him. I think we can agree that Rivers is not playing like he was a year ago when the decision to let Brees go seemed like a good one. Maybe it's an aberration, but if Brees continues to be a solid starter for NO while Rivers continues to falter, then that decision will absolutely be called into question. This is more of an longer term issue than you seemed to think I viewed it.

You do realize that Rivers is a 2 Time Division Champ and 25-7 in his 2 years starting? If that is faltering, sign me up baybay.

Remarkable that he did that all by himself in a sport that most play as a team with 54 players.

It's equally remarkable that if the Chargers win it's always despite Turner/Rivers, and if they lose it's because of Turner/Rivers.

 

[Mr. PadresLakers]

Remarkable that he did that all by himself in a sport that most play as a team with 54 players.

How many players differed between Brees' last season with the Chargers and Rivers first season as a starter?

 

[Mr. PadresLakers]

It's equally remarkable that if the Chargers win it's always despite Turner/Rivers, and if they lose it's because of Turner/Rivers.

I have a feeling thats never going to change.

 

[redman]

Remarkable that he did that all by himself in a sport that most play as a team with 54 players.

How many players differed between Brees' last season with the Chargers and Rivers first season as a starter?

Teams gel, you know that. What's interesting to me is that there were two prominent statistical outliers in 2006 for the Chargers, their W-L record and LT's TD's. Coincidence? I think not. Again, don't take me for a Chargers hater. I'm not. I'm just not sold yet on Rivers, and I definitely have my mind made up about Turner who I think they're winning in spite of and not because of.

 

[Mr. PadresLakers]

Remarkable that he did that all by himself in a sport that most play as a team with 54 players.

How many players differed between Brees' last season with the Chargers and Rivers first season as a starter?

Teams gel, you know that. What's interesting to me is that there were two prominent statistical outliers in 2006 for the Chargers, their W-L record and LT's TD's. Coincidence? I think not. Again, don't take me for a Chargers hater. I'm not. I'm just not sold yet on Rivers, and I definitely have my mind made up about Turner who I think they're winning in spite of and not because of.

I don't think LT was any better last year than he was this year or his last year with Brees at QB. The biggest difference was the dominance of the Chargers offensive line.