bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
this is true with alot of playoff level teams that dont win championships.I have a feeling thats never going to change.
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Chargers reward Smith with five-year, $11M extension (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Mr. PadresLakers
- Start date
BoltBacker
Footballguy
Then "we have yet to see the ultimate course of a Norv Turner-led team" is kind of BS isn't it? I mean you've pretty much said that if the Chargers win the Super Bowl then it's in spite of Turner. So your mind is set regardless of results. In your view a Norv Turner-led team is a mistake.That's why Charger fans look like we're always defending Turner and/or Rivers and/or AJ... because we're making our judgments based on the results they are producing instead of making judgments despite the results they are producing.
Mr. PadresLakers
Footballguy
Really? Which ones?Grossman of the Bears is the only moderately similarly situation and Rivers is much better than him.this is true with alot of playoff level teams that dont win championships.I have a feeling thats never going to change.
redman
Footballguy
You watch your team more closely than I do, so please explain the positive difference(s) that Turner has made to the team's performance on the field this year. I'll be charitable and not limit it to a 2007-2006 comparison; compare it to all of Marty's tenure.
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
well not recently but here in detroit the Lions of the mid 90's team come to mind, current coach of the pistons is in this extact situation, maybe it's a detroit thing, I dunnoReally? Which ones?Grossman of the Bears is the only moderately similarly situation and Rivers is much better than him.this is true with alot of playoff level teams that dont win championships.I have a feeling thats never going to change.
switz
Footballguy
Hmmm... turning the team around after the first 4 games I would say is positive... keeping them together when things were pulling them apart... he's also made some game adjustments as needed. I have never thought Turner was a good head coach, but this year he has done things that impress me.
BoltBacker
Footballguy
I think the reason he was hired was to impact the most potent offense in the NFL the least after they just lost their offensive coordinator. They went from #1 offense to the #5 offense. I've always said I'd much rather have Cam running the offense but that wasn't an option.Do you think he was hired to change a lot of things?
BoltBacker
Footballguy
I don't think Grossman is even an example because Rivers has never played that poorly.Really? Which ones?Grossman of the Bears is the only moderately similarly situation and Rivers is much better than him.this is true with alot of playoff level teams that dont win championships.I have a feeling thats never going to change.
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
No the only reason he was hired was his familiarity with the O. Same with Cotrell on the D. And Riveria was brought in to help as well. Seriously a first round win doesnt mean much this season. Is it a step forward? a small one.But really there is two giant road blocks in their way in the AFC, Manning and Brady. Beating either one of those QB's in their home stadium in the playoffs shouldnt' be expected or viewed as a bad season. Heck odds are you will have to beat both just to get to the Superbowl this season. GLLLL
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switz
Footballguy
You're kidding right? You mean if either of the top-2 QBs of this generation pull out a 4th quarter win against SD, then SD had a bad season? That's absurd.If the Chargers lose to TEN, it will be a choke in my books. But if they beat TEN, then lose to IND/NE then the Chargers did IMO the best they could. The Pats and Colts are the cream of the crop in the AFC. If the Charger beat either of them, they will do better than expected. The Chargers are hardly a team without flaws, regardless of who is playing QB of who is coaching.
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
sorry, edited correctly
BoltBacker
Footballguy
Read it a couple of times. Still can't make heads or tails of it.
Mr. PadresLakers
Footballguy
I'm pretty sure BSS meant to say shouldn't otherwise his entire comment doesn't make sense.
BoltBacker
Footballguy
It should?
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
SHOULDN'T!!!!!
move along
move along
BoltBacker
Footballguy
I don't think it makes sense either way.He's talking about the top two teams in the NFL and is saying if you can't go in and beat one of them in their building your season should be viewed as a "bad season".... uh ok? I guess it's from the line of thought that 31 NFL teams have a bad season every year because they didn't win the SB.
Of course he's also choosing to forget that the last time they faced Manning in his stadium the Chargers ended the Colts unbeaten streak.
I think he's just flustered because Brees will be watching Rivers playing in the playoffs on TV.
Despyzer
Lousy Attention Whore
Getting back to the LBs, what's the story with rookie Jyles Tucker? The guy's not even listed on the depth chart on NFL.com but sees action in the last three or four games and then goes off on the Raiders with two forced fumbles and three sacks. Is this guy worth keeping an eye on or do we chalk it up to an aberration when facing inferior talent?
BoltBacker
Footballguy
First, great link it was an interesting listen.Second, yes and no. Seems like he just went down the entire defensive roster and heaped praise on all of them(and they have come through for him so it's to be expected). When asked to single out the ILB's he offered "he's really come on in the last four games" which I found particularly interesting because that includes the TEN game where I thought his play was uneven. The last three games it's difficult to fault the play of any player on the roster.
BTW What did you think of that "leadership" question? I think every starter was named eventually.
Gr00vus
Footballguy
That's how the Patriots do it, and I think that's how most successful teams operate. You don't have one guy, or a couple of guys who are leaders. Most of the starters need to be their own leader, and the teams that win are that way. I take it as a good sign, a sign that these guys are maturing beyond the need to have a rah rah coach like Marty to be effective, if it's true.I've liked Cooper's play more and more as the season's gone on. I think he's solid. Wilhelm I'm still not as sure of. He gets in a lot of tackles past the line of scrimage, I'd like to see him making more plays at or behind it, but honestly I don't think that's his role in the defensive scheme most of the time. I'd like to see him be more effective in pass coverage - though I think he's improved on that as the season's progressed.Winning a playoff game will validate Norv this year, simple as that.
Despyzer
Lousy Attention Whore
So.... nobody knows? Nobody cares? Nobody wants to hazard a guess?
Mr. PadresLakers
Footballguy
I have no idea if it was a fluke or what his long term chances with the team are, but he definitely had an awesome game last week.Charger Jyles Tucker Wins AFC Defensive Player of the Week
Yuma, Arizona - Signed by the Chargers as an undrafted free agent in the offseason, Jyles Tucker has made an immediate contribution since making his NFL debut on November 25 against Baltimore. In a bid to secure the third-seed in the AFC playoffs, Tucker led the defense with four tackles, a career-high three sacks, two forced fumbles and a fumble recovery for a touchdown as the Chargers defeated Oakland 30-17.
Tucker, a 6-3, 258-pound linebacker scored his first touchdown of his career in the third quarter on a fumble recovery in the end zone. The New Jersey native has totaled 3.5 sacks in 6 games this season.
In his rookie season from Wake Forest, this is Tucker’s first career Player of the Week Award. Tucker is the third Charger to win Defensive Player of the Week honors this season (Antonio Cromarte and Shawne Merriman).
Link
PatrickT
Footballguy
Good to hear some positive feedback on him. I don't know much about the GM pool out there, but if you'd care to visit the 2008 falcon off-season thread and throw your 2 cents in on Buddy, it would be appreciated.
BoltBacker
Footballguy
IMO it's just difficult to read too much into the last game of the season against the raiders. The raiders typically quit on their HC before Thanksgiving. Since SEP the raiders were 2-10 so it's a little difficult to gauge how Tucker would look against an NFL team.
Despyzer
Lousy Attention Whore
Walter Slovotsky
Footballguy
He was a DE in college, and he is still learning the LB position. But he has good size and strength with great speed. If he can learn the nuances of his position, I think he has the potential to be good to very good.
Mr. PadresLakers
Footballguy
lifted from the Chargers.com forum
2003 new GM becomes a bust himself...
1-30) Sammy Davis CB (late first round bust, no longer with team)
2-46) Drayton Florence S (marginal player, likely to be gone next season)
2-62) Terrence Kiel S (AJ hits strike three with the secondary)
3-80) Courtney Van Buren OG (another first day bust, had a short stint with the Chargers)
4-112) Matt Wilhelm LB (good pick up, very solid back up in his younger years, now an efficient starter in the Chargers defense)
5-179) Mike Scifres P (Has some of the highest hang times in the NFL, the most underlooked punter in the league. The Chargers don't lose a second of sleep thinking about who will be punting for years to come.)
6-188 Hanik Milligan S (pro-bowl special teamer, solid pick up)
7-229) Andrew Pinnock RB (still on the team and has shown he can do well in the playoffs)
*AJ took over as General Manager days before the 2003 draft. RIP John Butler. Not a good start to his GM career.
2004 the age of AJ begins...
1-1) Eli Manning QB (AJ still has the juevos to take him)
2-35) Igor Olshansky DT (Adequate starter for years now)
3-65) Nate Kaeding K (pro bowl regular season kicker, playoffs has tarnished his image, the jury is still out on this one)
3-66) Nick Hardwick C (athletic center, good locker room guy, pro bowler)
4-98)Shaun Phillips LB (3rd pro bowler in a row, commonly has better performances over Shaun Merriman)
5-133) Dave Ball DE (recorded 1 assisted tackle for the Chargers and left the very next year)
5)154 Michael Turner RB (best back up in the league, will get the check he deserves in the offseason)
9-169) Ryan Krause TE (didn't work out in San Diego)
7-204) Ryon Bingham DT (big man who gets reps behind Williams)
7-209) Shane Olivea OT (not starting material, a bargain at the 209th pick!)
7-254) Carlos Joseph T (Didn't work out)
*AJ would worked Ernie Accorsi, GM for the NY Giants with a trade. Eli Manning for Philip Rivers and the Giants 05 1st round draft pick & 2004 3rd round pick.
2005 the golden years...
1-12) Shawne Merriman LB (perennial pro bowler, will rank among the all time bests before career is over)
1-28) Luis Castillo DT (injuries have kept him away from having that break out year everyone keeps talking about, most people would still label him 1st round talent)
2-61) Vincent Jackson WR (a long term project that most people are now happy with)
4-130) Darren Sproles RB (good pick up, great special teamer)
5-164) Wesley Britt OT (didn't work out)
6-177) Wes Simms OG (also didn't work out)
7-242) Scott Mruczkowski C (bargain at the 7th
2006 nails it again...
1-19) Antonio Cromartie CB (gamble pays off, the next Deon Sanders?)
2-50) Marcus McNeil OT (had one of the best rookie seasons ever for a left tackle, declined in 2007, but still fills a huge position need, LT loves running to his side)
3-81) Charlie Whitehurst QB (was best player available at the time, being groomed to become a reliable back up, we'll see, or best case scenario we will never see)
5-151) Tims Dobbins LB (good special teamer, nice hitter)
6-188) Kurt Smith K (didn't make the team)
7-225 Chase Page DT (didn't work out)
7-227 Jimmy Martin OT (didn't work out)
2007 to be determined...
1 (30) Craig Davis WR LSU
2 (37) Eric Weddle S Utah
3 (96) Anthony Waters ILB Clemson
4 (129) Scott Chandler TE Iowa
5 (172) Legedu Naanee WR Boise State
7 (240) Brandon Siler ILB Florida
*To be determined. Everyone made the team and everyone is in a position to get a considerable amount of playing time in the future.
2003 new GM becomes a bust himself...
1-30) Sammy Davis CB (late first round bust, no longer with team)
2-46) Drayton Florence S (marginal player, likely to be gone next season)
2-62) Terrence Kiel S (AJ hits strike three with the secondary)
3-80) Courtney Van Buren OG (another first day bust, had a short stint with the Chargers)
4-112) Matt Wilhelm LB (good pick up, very solid back up in his younger years, now an efficient starter in the Chargers defense)
5-179) Mike Scifres P (Has some of the highest hang times in the NFL, the most underlooked punter in the league. The Chargers don't lose a second of sleep thinking about who will be punting for years to come.)
6-188 Hanik Milligan S (pro-bowl special teamer, solid pick up)
7-229) Andrew Pinnock RB (still on the team and has shown he can do well in the playoffs)
*AJ took over as General Manager days before the 2003 draft. RIP John Butler. Not a good start to his GM career.
2004 the age of AJ begins...
1-1) Eli Manning QB (AJ still has the juevos to take him)
2-35) Igor Olshansky DT (Adequate starter for years now)
3-65) Nate Kaeding K (pro bowl regular season kicker, playoffs has tarnished his image, the jury is still out on this one)
3-66) Nick Hardwick C (athletic center, good locker room guy, pro bowler)
4-98)Shaun Phillips LB (3rd pro bowler in a row, commonly has better performances over Shaun Merriman)
5-133) Dave Ball DE (recorded 1 assisted tackle for the Chargers and left the very next year)
5)154 Michael Turner RB (best back up in the league, will get the check he deserves in the offseason)
9-169) Ryan Krause TE (didn't work out in San Diego)
7-204) Ryon Bingham DT (big man who gets reps behind Williams)
7-209) Shane Olivea OT (not starting material, a bargain at the 209th pick!)
7-254) Carlos Joseph T (Didn't work out)
*AJ would worked Ernie Accorsi, GM for the NY Giants with a trade. Eli Manning for Philip Rivers and the Giants 05 1st round draft pick & 2004 3rd round pick.
2005 the golden years...
1-12) Shawne Merriman LB (perennial pro bowler, will rank among the all time bests before career is over)
1-28) Luis Castillo DT (injuries have kept him away from having that break out year everyone keeps talking about, most people would still label him 1st round talent)
2-61) Vincent Jackson WR (a long term project that most people are now happy with)
4-130) Darren Sproles RB (good pick up, great special teamer)
5-164) Wesley Britt OT (didn't work out)
6-177) Wes Simms OG (also didn't work out)
7-242) Scott Mruczkowski C (bargain at the 7th
2006 nails it again...
1-19) Antonio Cromartie CB (gamble pays off, the next Deon Sanders?)
2-50) Marcus McNeil OT (had one of the best rookie seasons ever for a left tackle, declined in 2007, but still fills a huge position need, LT loves running to his side)
3-81) Charlie Whitehurst QB (was best player available at the time, being groomed to become a reliable back up, we'll see, or best case scenario we will never see)
5-151) Tims Dobbins LB (good special teamer, nice hitter)
6-188) Kurt Smith K (didn't make the team)
7-225 Chase Page DT (didn't work out)
7-227 Jimmy Martin OT (didn't work out)
2007 to be determined...
1 (30) Craig Davis WR LSU
2 (37) Eric Weddle S Utah
3 (96) Anthony Waters ILB Clemson
4 (129) Scott Chandler TE Iowa
5 (172) Legedu Naanee WR Boise State
7 (240) Brandon Siler ILB Florida
*To be determined. Everyone made the team and everyone is in a position to get a considerable amount of playing time in the future.
BoltBacker
Footballguy
I wasn't sold on draft day but Weddle/Naanee/Siler all look like players that can really contribute. WR's always take longer than expected so I'll give Davis another 2 years before making a judgement on that one. Everyone really seems to think Waters will be worth the wait.
cstu
Footballguy
I know, sucks watching Rivers lead the team to within a game of the SB and not having the guy who couldn't beat the Jets in the playoffs while he was here. I don't get all the Drew Brees love - he's a good guy and a very good QB but he never helped the Chargers win anything.
cstu
Footballguy
I loved the Weddle pick and the Craig Davis pick looked better before they got a steal for Chambers.
