Chargers will hire Norv Turner as next head coach (1 Viewer)

[Maurile Tremblay]

I thought it was funny that another major fantasy site also refer to Turner as a retread

Oh yeah. I forgot to list that under both positives and negatives in my previous post.Positive: He has head coaching experience in the NFL.Negative: He is a retread.

 

[Phil4]

I think that is a good move. Turner is an offensive guru and with all the element that he have in San Diego, it's the right place for him. Personally, I think that the Chargers are a better team.

Official News

 

[Colin Dowling]

Better then going 14-2 with MArty? That's going to be impressive to watch.

 

[Chase Stuart]

Has any coach ever won a Super Bowl with a career losing record before that season? Off the top of my head, I can't think of any. Obviously Seifert and the other rookie HC to do it were 0-0, so they don't count.

 

[lions327]

Has any coach ever won a Super Bowl with a career losing record before that season? Off the top of my head, I can't think of any. Obviously Seifert and the other rookie HC to do it were 0-0, so they don't count.

Belichick did it.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

Has any coach ever won a Super Bowl with a career losing record before that season? Off the top of my head, I can't think of any. Obviously Seifert and the other rookie HC to do it were 0-0, so they don't count.

Bill Belichick was 41-55 before 2001.

 

[Chase Stuart]

Has any coach ever won a Super Bowl with a career losing record before that season? Off the top of my head, I can't think of any. Obviously Seifert and the other rookie HC to do it were 0-0, so they don't count.

Belichick did it.

Thanks. Any others?

 

[ICON211]

This is great news for the rest of the league. Norv is the poster boy for guys that are very good coordinators and awful head coaches. When he was with the Raiders he didn't even seem to be interested in the game when the defense was on the field. And Ted Cottrell might be the most overrated defensive coordinator in the history of football. Wherever Ted Cottrell goes gaping holes and huge rushing performances follow.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

Also **** Vermeil was 63-70 before 1999.

 

[LHUCKS]

Also **** Vermeil was 63-70 before 1999.

I was just about to inquire about him.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

Bill Parcells was 22-25 before 1986.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Why would a team apparently on the verge of a title hire a retread coach, and a mediocre one, at that?

Best question I've read so far, I would like to know the answer to that.

 

[switz]

I thought it was funny that another major fantasy site also refer to Turner as a retread, keyword "Another". Also see thread on recycled coaches Here

Eh, whatver. Retread or not, I don't think it's as bad as the naysayers have it, nor as good as the Chargers fans will say it is.Norv isn't awful, but he's not great either. Watching all the SB-winning Dallas coaches in post-Dallas work, I wonder how Dallas did so well. JJ wasn't that good in MIA. Turner has been pretty awful as an HC, but still exceptional as an OC. Who was their DC?

Anyway, it seemed it was the coaching chemistry mixed with extremely talented players that made those Dallas teams so good. Well, in SD at least the talent is there.

Norv should do better than he has in his other coaching gigs, and I'd even say a playoff win is a possibility. But I don't see 14-2 regular season records. 12-4 maybe. 10-6 probably.

 

[Tackling Dummies]

Why would a team apparently on the verge of a title hire a retread coach, and a mediocre one, at that?

Best question I've read so far, I would like to know the answer to that.

Norv bought into the AJ Smith know-your-role system.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Why would a team apparently on the verge of a title hire a retread coach, and a mediocre one, at that?

Because they don't have the luxury of a HC going through the learning curve of on the job training. They needed someone that at least has had head coaching experience. As for Turner, there were not a lot of great experienced options out there. And whomever they picked also had to get along with the Chargers' owner and GM and apparently agree to some of the options as potential assistant coaches.And before we shoot down Turner, he was never a head coach for a team at the talent level the Chargers are at. They don't need someone to turn the franchise around, they need someone to keep everyone happy and continue to win. Apparently they felt the risk and pressure of being a first time head coach would only have added to the problem.

And that's not a bad answer. I think SD took a step back though. They will not win 14 games next season...fighting it out for a wildcard spot. Denver will be a lot better next season and I think they will take the division. Even if SD wins the West, they will not get the 1st round bye that NE and Indy will enjoy.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

Why would a team apparently on the verge of a title hire a retread coach, and a mediocre one, at that?

Best question I've read so far, I would like to know the answer to that.

This question makes sense in considering the choice between Norv Turner and, for example, Rex Ryan. But not between Norv Turner and Marty Schottenheimer, since Schottenheimer was a retread as well. So if retreads are bad . . .But to answer the question, I don't know how big a role previous NFL head coaching experience played. Maybe it played a roll, since there is a sense of urgency in San Diego -- a feeling that there's no time to let a rookie head coach grow on the job by learning from his mistakes.But it's also possible that previous experience didn't have as much to do with it as continuity (Turner/Cottrell will keep the current offensive and defensive schemes in place) and the fact that Turner is an offensive-minded coach while all the other candidates were defensive-minded. (The Chargers will have a rookie OC but an experienced DC.)Or maybe Turner just came across as the most knowledgeable football guy during the interview process.We can only speculate . . .

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Why would a team apparently on the verge of a title hire a retread coach, and a mediocre one, at that?

Best question I've read so far, I would like to know the answer to that.

Norv bought into the AJ Smith know-your-role system.

You're right. I think of that scene where Leslie Nielsen pulls the gun out and the umpires suddenly go "Your the boss"...I think AJ is looking for someone that will say yes sir.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

Chargers take step back with Turner hiring

By Ken Murray

Feb 19, 2007

The San Diego Chargers' coaching transition is complete. The team has gone from one coach who couldn't win in January to a coach who rarely wins anytime.

Huh?

It shouldn't be too tough for new Chargers coach Norv Turner to follow Marty Schottenheimer's act in San Diego. Schottenheimer is notorious for building playoff-caliber teams, only to watch them collapse in the postseason. And Schottenheimer leaves a team loaded with Pro Bowlers and potential.

The question now is, will Turner get them to the postseason?

In two previous head coaching stints covering nine seasons, Turner reached the playoffs once. That was 1999, when he went 10-6 with the Washington Redskins and ultimately lost to the Tampa Bay Buccaneers in the divisional playoff round.

Turner didn't last another full season in Washington.

He was even worse, however, in a two-year term with the Oakland Raiders in 2003-04. The Raiders went 9-23 to get him fired again. Altogether, his NFL coaching resume offers a record of 58-82-1.

His hiring was curious also because the team considered several defensive coaches as Schottenheimer's successor, including the Ravens' Rex Ryan and the Chicago Bears' Ron Rivera. With Ryan's stamp, the Chargers' defense could have become dominant.

Instead, it'll get Ted Cottrell's stamp. Cottrell is another good teacher of the 3-4 scheme, and is well-liked by Chargers' ownership. But he has never produced at a level close to the season Ryan just produced with the Ravens, when they ranked first in the league.

Consider it Baltimore's good fortune and Ryan's short-term bad luck.

Turner, 54, has always been a better offensive coordinator than a head coach. He held coordinator jobs in Dallas, San Diego (2001 under Mike Riley), Miami and, last year, San Francisco. Each stop drew kudos.

And while coaching in Oakland is hardly a fair barometer of NFL success, there is little reason to think Turner is capable of pushing the immensely-talented Chargers to their full potential.

Somehow, it seems like more of a trade-off of bad choices than an inspired selection.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Why would a team apparently on the verge of a title hire a retread coach, and a mediocre one, at that?

Best question I've read so far, I would like to know the answer to that.

This question makes sense in the choice in considering between Norv Turner and, for example, Rex Ryan. But not between Norv Turner and Marty Schottenheimer, since Schottenheimer was a retread as well. So if retreads are bad . . .But to answer the question, I don't know how big a role previous NFL head coaching experience played. Maybe it played a roll, since there is a sense of urgency in San Diego -- a feeling that there's no time to let a rookie head coach grow on the job by learning from his mistakes.But it's also possible that previous experience didn't have as much to do with it as continuity (Turner/Cottrell will keep the current offensive and defensive schemes in place) and the fact that Turner is an offensive-minded coach while all the other candidates were defensive-minded. (The Chargers will have a rookie OC but an experienced DC.)Or maybe Turner just came across as the most knowledgeable football guy during the interview process.We can only speculate . . .

Hey MT, let me make sure I understand...they want someone to basically keep things going as well they were when MS was the coach...yet they fire his ### after posting a 14-2 record, perhaps the best single season record on a team that has had one of if not the most losing seasons over the past 20-25 years, yes/no? Really no matter how SD fans spin this...and I applaud the Chargers fans as I have gained a lot of respect for them through these boards and most of you don't spin what they do a lot of the time...that said I cannot see how they will come out smelling like a rose. Yes there was a lot of friction with MS and AJ but they have gone out to hire coaches to try and keep things as close as they could to last season...they lost the OC, DC, HC...I'm sorry but it probably is not going to work.However, I will point out 2 instances where it worked well. Gruden...however he had the luxury of having the DC stay on and the entire defense was kept in tact...he just had to milk a few more points out of the offense. My 2nd example would be Dumbo from the "U" in 2002...but he was the DC and promoted to HC. They should have fired Marty immediately after the playoff game and promoted Cam Cameron to HC...no matter how you spin this, the Chargers look like idiots right now. They watched their OC walk out the door, all the assistants, then fired the HC after going 14-2. I'm sorry but I spoke of this before the playoff game that if MS lost they needed to ensure they kept CC, and they didn't. I think management laid an egg in this entire debacle.

 

[Chase Stuart]

Also **** Vermeil was 63-70 before 1999.

Bill Parcells was 22-25 before 1986.

Thanks, MT. Belichick certainly could have been classified as a retread (I wouldn't have), and Vermeil certainly didn't fit the previous profile. I don't think any coach had taken off as much time as he did and then won a Bowl. Parcells isn't as good of a fit, but still interesting nonetheless.

 

[Family Matters]

Turner represents a more exciting brand of football. Except with more losses.

Seriously, Turner has proven to be a great coordinator. He has not proven much as a head coach. But as Yudkin pointed out, he's never had a team this talented. If he can lead enough to keep them going in the right direction then he might be successful. If the past is any evidence I wouldn't get my hopes up.

 

[switz]

Hey MT, let me make sure I understand...they want someone to basically keep things going as well they were when MS was the coach...yet they fire his ### after posting a 14-2 record, perhaps the best single season record on a team that has had one of if not the most losing seasons over the past 20-25 years, yes/no?

I think the perception was that it was the trio of coaches that led to the Chargers' success. Two-thirds of that trio ended up getting HC jobs elsewhere. The team, IMO, likely would not have gotten rid of Marty had he been willing to hire new assistants of the same calibre as his old assistants. Yet he wanted to bring his brother in. I tihnk that's what spawned the decision to loose Marty.

Really no matter how SD fans spin this...and I applaud the Chargers fans as I have gained a lot of respect for them through these boards and most of you don't spin what they do a lot of the time...that said I cannot see how they will come out smelling like a rose. Yes there was a lot of friction with MS and AJ but they have gone out to hire coaches to try and keep things as close as they could to last season...they lost the OC, DC, HC...I'm sorry but it probably is not going to work.

I agree, and I tihnk most well-informed Chargers fans agree. Turner simply is not proven to be a good HC. But he's never had as much talent as this squad, so there is a possibility he coudl still be successful. 14-2? No. But successful, and as long as he makes the playoffs, and wins one playoff game, that will be better than Marty.

However, I will point out 2 instances where it worked well. Gruden...however he had the luxury of having the DC stay on and the entire defense was kept in tact...he just had to milk a few more points out of the offense. My 2nd example would be Dumbo from the "U" in 2002...but he was the DC and promoted to HC.

I think Cotrell coming in as DC will keep the defensive staff relatively intact, and don't expect much dropoff on that side.

They should have fired Marty immediately after the playoff game and promoted Cam Cameron to HC...no matter how you spin this, the Chargers look like idiots right now. They watched their OC walk out the door, all the assistants, then fired the HC after going 14-2. I'm sorry but I spoke of this before the playoff game that if MS lost they needed to ensure they kept CC, and they didn't. I think management laid an egg in this entire debacle.

Yep - in hindsight. But I think management didn't feel CC would get a HC job yet, and wanted to wait out the one year with Marty, and give CC the HC job next year. That's fully what I had expected to see happen. Stupid in hindsight...

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

I really would have liked the job to have gone to Rex Ryan. I'm somewhat disappointed that the head coach will be Norv Turner.

That said, I feel silly second-guessing AJ Smith after he's spent the week personally interviewing candidates and I've spent the week posting to an internet message board.

I can't find the quote, so I'll paraphrase what Milton Friedman once said to another economist who expressed disappointment that Friedman agreed with a third economist on some matter. "First, he has more information on the subject than you do. Second, if you both had the same information, I would trust his judgment over yours."

AJ Smith has a lot more information on all of the candidates that were under consideration than I do. And even if we had the same information, he's better at evaluating it than I am. So it would be unjustified for me to second-guess him on his decision at this point.

 

[Liquid Tension]

I don't get the "Norv is a bad head coach" sentiment. I know that sounds crazy, and I'm sure some will say I'm nuts but I just think we can't universally claim that he "can't" coach.He took over a Washington team that was 4-12 in 1993. In his first two years, they were 3-13 and 6-10. After that point, he was 40-36-1 with them. Not great, but not awful considering the amount of turnover he had (especially at the QB position). His successors in Washington (Schottenheimer and Spurrier) weren't able to improve upon Norv's track record there at all, and Washington failed to make the playoffs any subsequent season until Joe Gibbs was back in town. Norv then goes to Oakland where his teams are, by all accounts, miserable. He goes 9-23 and his reputation as a HC is shot. So what happens when he leaves? The team proves they're even worse than everyone thought, as they drop to 2-14 and are one of the biggest jokes in NFL history. Norv's Oakland teams were terrible, but at least competed for the most part.I know there's a lot that goes into being a coach that isn't present as a coordinator, but it's not like he has been in situations to excel. He may have coached under the two most meddling owners in all of sports, not to mention the guys who succeeded him weren't able to do anything with the same group of guys either. Norv's a phenomenal coordinator and won't break the offense, and that may be his biggest attribute here. I like the hire, not just because I'm a Norv fan but also because I would do just about anything to prevent Mora or Mooch from getting the job.

This is my take as well. You need talent to win as a coach. Norv has not done well as a coach, but it is obvious he knows how to run an offense. If he can get Cottrell to run the 3-4 and he can get some assistant that can help him manage the game, this was a good fit for the Chargers and is the best they could have done if they were going to let everyone leave.

Norv isn't being hired "to run an offense". He's being hired to lead a team. If you think that this can work if only the Chargers can back-fill some of those responsibilities with Ted Cottrell or any other assistant coach or coordinator, that's more a statement of what you think about Norv than anything else.

I don't agree with your conclusion. Part of being a good leader is surrounding yourself with talented people. How many head coaches do well with poor assistants? Parcell's hasn't won anything without BB on his staff. Also, Turner is being expected to run the offense on top of running the team. Or do you think Mike Martz does a lot for the defense? Why do more head coaches call offensive plays but not defensive schemes?

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

The team, IMO, likely would not have gotten rid of Marty had he been willing to hire new assistants of the same calibre as his old assistants. Yet he wanted to bring his brother in. I tihnk that's what spawned the decision to loose Marty.

I've seen "loose" used as a verb about a zillion times on this forum. That's the first time I've seen it used correctly.

 

[TheLastDispatch]

small but good news for eagles fans... stallworth said he would be interested in going to sf if turner stayed there. thats one team off his list..

what do you guys see for gore and gates next year?

 

[switz]

I don't agree with your conclusion. Part of being a good leader is surrounding yourself with talented people. How many head coaches do well with poor assistants? Parcell's hasn't won anything without BB on his staff. Also, Turner is being expected to run the offense on top of running the team. Or do you think Mike Martz does a lot for the defense?

So Norv is going to have Cotrell (respectable DC) as DC, and a guy from within be OC. I'm not sure your point. I'm not trying to argue, I just don't see what you are trying to say.

Who do head coaches call offensive plays but not defensive schemes?

Some coaches DO call defensive schemes, and leave the O to the OC.

 

[Chase Stuart]

I really would have liked the job to have gone to Rex Ryan. I'm somewhat disappointed that the head coach will be Norv Turner.That said, I feel silly second-guessing AJ Smith after he's spent the week personally interviewing candidates and I've spent the week posting to an internet message board.I can't find the quote, so I'll paraphrase what Milton Friedman once said to another economist who expressed disappointment that Friedman agreed with a third economist on some matter. "First, he has more information on the subject than you do. Second, if you both had the same information, I would trust his judgment over yours."AJ Smith has a lot more information on all of the candidates that were under consideration than I do. And even if we had the same information, he's better at evaluating it than I am. So it would be unjustified for me to second-guess him on his decision at this point.

 

[switz]

The team, IMO, likely would not have gotten rid of Marty had he been willing to hire new assistants of the same calibre as his old assistants. Yet he wanted to bring his brother in. I tihnk that's what spawned the decision to loose Marty.

I've seen "loose" used as a verb about a zillion times on this forum. That's the first time I've seen it used correctly.

English major. Yet I still make typos or get lazy in my posting. I think the majority who misuse loose are thinking lose and just mistype.Thanks though

 

[switz]

small but good news for eagles fans... stallworth said he would be interested in going to sf if turner stayed there. thats one team off his list..what do you guys see for gore and gates next year?

Gates, this should be good for him. Gore, - it depends on who they replaced Norv with. He will still be good though.On Stallworth... he'd look great in a SD uniform.

 

[Liquid Tension]

I don't get the "Norv is a bad head coach" sentiment. I know that sounds crazy, and I'm sure some will say I'm nuts but I just think we can't universally claim that he "can't" coach.

He took over a Washington team that was 4-12 in 1993. In his first two years, they were 3-13 and 6-10. After that point, he was 40-36-1 with them. Not great, but not awful considering the amount of turnover he had (especially at the QB position). His successors in Washington (Schottenheimer and Spurrier) weren't able to improve upon Norv's track record there at all, and Washington failed to make the playoffs any subsequent season until Joe Gibbs was back in town. Norv then goes to Oakland where his teams are, by all accounts, miserable. He goes 9-23 and his reputation as a HC is shot. So what happens when he leaves? The team proves they're even worse than everyone thought, as they drop to 2-14 and are one of the biggest jokes in NFL history. Norv's Oakland teams were terrible, but at least competed for the most part.

I know there's a lot that goes into being a coach that isn't present as a coordinator, but it's not like he has been in situations to excel. He may have coached under the two most meddling owners in all of sports, not to mention the guys who succeeded him weren't able to do anything with the same group of guys either. Norv's a phenomenal coordinator and won't break the offense, and that may be his biggest attribute here. I like the hire, not just because I'm a Norv fan but also because I would do just about anything to prevent Mora or Mooch from getting the job.

You've painted with a very broad brush here. Norv's high water mark with the 'Skins was arguably week 8 in 1996 when he'd gotten the team to a 6-1 record. They then collapsed to finish 7-9 that year. The remaining years, save for 1999 when they won a division championship and a playoff game, were marked by undisciplined teams that seemed to change little from year to year as reflected by their record. Norv started 0-7 in 1998, his 5th season with the team, and would have been fired by any other team in the league but managed to keep his job because by the time that Snyder took over it was summer 1999 and too late to hire a replacement. Bottom line: head coaching is far more about leadership than about scheme or football smarts. Norv is not a leader, and the players know it and walk all over him. I'll be interested to see whether the Chargers - already an undisciplined team in many respects, have enough on-field leaders and talent to overcome Norv because, rest assured, thats precisely what they'll have to do to win a championship with him.

Good talent = winning = great leadership. I am not disagreeing about the leadership importance, but I am saying that sometimes winning creates that respect and losing exacerbates the lack of leadership. Sometimes the key players need to be part of that leadership. Look at the Giants and Coughlin, he doesn't allow people to walk in him (I know this is not a leadership quality), yet his key players in Strahan and Tiki thought he worked the team too hard and basically threw him under the bus. Get me guys who want to live, work and sleep football.

I would think being able to manage the game and not let the usually incorrect fans dictate whether you should be going for 4th and 1 from the 22 yard line (the worst place to do so) is very important. You also need to understand clock management. Lovie Smith just made the SB and he makes some of the dumbest decisions from a game management standpoint I have ever seen. Is that good leadership, luck, or what? Just 2 quick examples from just the Seattle playoff game that were dumb decisions by Lovie.

1) Seattle at the end of the 1st half with 4th and 1 from the 8 yard line with 18 seconds left and 1 time out he goes for it. Dumb and very low % decision, but he got a TD and it worked out.

2) At the end of the game with Seattle in possession on the Bears roughly 44 yard line and the 3rd down play ends leaving it 4th and about 15 with 45 seconds left. Instead of calling an immediate timeout to force Seattle to punt, he lets the clock run down and then (Holmgren must have been sleeping here as well) calls a timeout with 2 seconds left to give Seattle a chance to throw a hail Mary??? Holmgren should have called the timeout; it is almost mind boggling how stupid it was for Lovie to call the timeout and give Seattle a chance to win; even if small. Imagine if the hail Mary worked?

there were more but just o give you some flavor

I've seen some stupefyingly dumb decisions and play-calls by Norv too. In 1999, that playoff year when he was coaching the 'Skins, one that sticks with me was their regular season game at Detroit. Detroit was a pretty good team and that was back when their quick DE's on the Silverdome's fast surface could terrorize your o-line. They'd worried all week about that. The solution was pretty simple: pound Stephen Davis, who had emerged as one of the best feature backs in the NFL that year on his way to a 290/1405/17 season. At halftime, they're down by I think four points. So what does Norv do in the 2nd half? He hands the ball to Davis four times. Four times! I think the o-line false started more times in the 2nd half. They lost 35-17.

I'm not trying to dredge up 7-year old memories just to bash him, but this stood out at the time and has always stuck with me as an example of how Norv gets overrated as a play-caller. There were certainly times he could be brilliant, but there were many other times when Redskins fans were left scratching their heads over his play calls.

One of the most mystifying things to me in the NFL in recent years has been how Norv has been Mr. Teflon. Whenever he's failed it's somehow not Norv's responsibility, it's always someone else's fault. Dan Snyder, Al Davis, the Redskins' lack of talent, the Raiders' lack of talent, bad luck, etc., etc., etc. At some point people need to realize that, whatever other factors were at work, the one constant in all of those prior failures was Norv himself.

Just for the record, I am not saying whether Turner is a great head coach or not. His record clearly shows that he is not. But, I always look much deeper than just the record as the talent of the team is very important as well. Your point about Turner's decision is a valid one and may be a problem for him. One thing I am sure of is that calling plays from the sideline is different than calling from the booth when you can be more myopic in your thinking.What I am saying is that under the circumstances, I think getting Turner to coach and Cottrell to be the DC would be a good things at this juncture for SD. Personally, I think Shottenhiemer should have been kept though. I am a Dolphin fan and Turner was a good OC for them. Miami just got Cameron and all I can think of his why he didn't run LT a lot more in the 2nd half?

 

[Chase Stuart]

Norv isn't awful, but he's not great either. Watching all the SB-winning Dallas coaches in post-Dallas work, I wonder how Dallas did so well. JJ wasn't that good in MIA. Turner has been pretty awful as an HC, but still exceptional as an OC. Who was their DC?

Wannstedt.

 

[switz]

Norv isn't awful, but he's not great either. Watching all the SB-winning Dallas coaches in post-Dallas work, I wonder how Dallas did so well. JJ wasn't that good in MIA. Turner has been pretty awful as an HC, but still exceptional as an OC. Who was their DC?

Wannstedt.

Hehe - point proven

 

[Chase Stuart]

Turner represents a more exciting brand of football. Except with more losses.Seriously, Turner has proven to be a great coordinator. He has not proven much as a head coach.

This sums up every coach SD interviewed, except for Singeltary (who hasn't proven to be a great coordinator).

 

[Liquid Tension]

Positives about this hire:1. Norv is familiar with the team (ownership, front office, many of the coaches and players) from the time he spent as the Chargers' offensive coordinator during 2001-2003.2. He is recognized as having a very good offensive mind, and tends to get the most out of his running backs. He's also developed several young QBs in his stints as offensive coordinator.3. When Cam Cameron took over as offensive coordinator in 2004, he kept the same offensive system in place -- i.e., Norv's. So the Chargers have already been running Norv Turner's offense, and will not have to overhaul the scheme. (The same will be true on defense, where Ted Cottrell is part of the Wade Phillips 3-4 coaching tree.)4. The Chargers will have a much less experienced offensive coordinator (Shelmon) this year than defensive coordinator (Cottrell), so it makes sense to hire an offensive-minded head coach.Negatives:1. He had a losing record as a head coach in both Washington and Oakland.2. He does not seem to be a very charismatic leader or motivator.

:(

 

[Harry Beanbag]

They should have fired Marty immediately after the playoff game and promoted Cam Cameron to HC...no matter how you spin this, the Chargers look like idiots right now. They watched their OC walk out the door, all the assistants, then fired the HC after going 14-2. I'm sorry but I spoke of this before the playoff game that if MS lost they needed to ensure they kept CC, and they didn't. I think management laid an egg in this entire debacle.

Disclaimer: I am a Charger fan and a season ticket holder.Although I agree with you that the timing of the firing and subsequent coaching search was not the best, the activity following that loss was what prompted Marty's firing. The team management was planning on having MS coach out his contract with the understanding that the coaching staff was going to remain relatively in tact. Losing coordinators to head coaching jobs comes with the territory but the coaching staff was absolutely raided. Seeing how Marty was a lame duck and Marty has always encouraged his coaches to seek better jobs, the staff was not going to remain the same. So since the GM and the head coach had such a dysfunctional relationship, they were going to look the other way and make it work for another year with the mindset the staff would remain in tact. Once all the coaches were leaving to go elsewhere, that is what prompted the change.

Hindsight is always 20/20 and had they known that Marty's staff would all leave they probably would have pulled the trigger minutes after the postgame press conference. I do agree that management should not have let the relationship between Marty and AJ get so bad that they were essentially not even speaking to each other. That is where management takes a hit. But handling the current situation they way it happened was not the best timing but it's better than letting it fester and try to hold it together with a makeshift coaching staff under Marty.

I am not going to defend the hire of Turner but his track record is not the best because of the places he landed. I doubt Vince Lombardi could have made the Raiders a winner during the time Norv was in Oakland.

 

[56]

Not a bad hire, considering the situation.

Any truth to Ron Rivera as the new DC there? I just heard that he will not be renewed with the Bears, who evidently are tired of all the talk about him being a HC. Seems like they are going to let him walk away.

I hate the Chargers, but I don't think that a Turner and Rivera combo would be bad at all.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

Hey MT, let me make sure I understand...they want someone to basically keep things going as well they were when MS was the coach...yet they fire his ### after posting a 14-2 record, perhaps the best single season record on a team that has had one of if not the most losing seasons over the past 20-25 years, yes/no?

Yes, that's exactly right.They originally hoped that last year's staff would remain intact. That didn't happen. It's quite possible that the front office and ownership thought that continuity would be maintained better with Tuner + Cottrell than with Marty + Kurt.I think if the Chargers could go back in time and fire Marty in January, they would. Then they'd try to keep Cam or Wade on board. But it's too late for that now.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

I really would have liked the job to have gone to Rex Ryan. I'm somewhat disappointed that the head coach will be Norv Turner.That said, I feel silly second-guessing AJ Smith after he's spent the week personally interviewing candidates and I've spent the week posting to an internet message board.I can't find the quote, so I'll paraphrase what Milton Friedman once said to another economist who expressed disappointment that Friedman agreed with a third economist on some matter. "First, he has more information on the subject than you do. Second, if you both had the same information, I would trust his judgment over yours."AJ Smith has a lot more information on all of the candidates that were under consideration than I do. And even if we had the same information, he's better at evaluating it than I am. So it would be unjustified for me to second-guess him on his decision at this point.

I don't feel silly at all. It's simple logic really. CC had that offense firing with basically a 3rd year rookie under center and they were terrific. They didn't win all those games on just good defense alone. I have to question how they handled it. And why would they think CC would not get a HC job form another club? That offense was terrific and he was bound to get interviews. I am not saying that CC will even do a great job as HC for Miami...I was actually a little underwhlemed by Wayne hiring him but I felt he could have done very well as HC for SD where he constructed the offensive scheme. MT, I know you defense AJ to the death in here but this was not handled well at all. And you even said you would have thoguht Rex Ryan would ahve bee a better choice and I completely agree with you. He could have made that defense and talent even better perhaps, and even if the offense took a tick down they would probably suffocate teams on defense and likely only need 14+ points to win a lot of their games.With Norv I expect a lot of shootouts and I don't think that defense will be as good. LT will continue to flourish although 30 TD seems highly unlikely, and I do expect the passing game and at least one of their current WR to make a lot of FF owners happy. Very anxious to see who will be the #1WR in SD...Vincent Jackson maybe?

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

ESPN Radio is reporting that Rivera is heading to San Diego to meet with the Chargers.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

Very anxious to see who will be the #1WR in SD...Vincent Jackson maybe?

They've already named VJ the number one WR (although Gates is the true number one).

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Hey MT, let me make sure I understand...they want someone to basically keep things going as well they were when MS was the coach...yet they fire his ### after posting a 14-2 record, perhaps the best single season record on a team that has had one of if not the most losing seasons over the past 20-25 years, yes/no?

Yes, that's exactly right.They originally hoped that last year's staff would remain intact. That didn't happen. It's quite possible that the front office and ownership thought that continuity would be maintained better with Tuner + Cottrell than with Marty + Kurt.I think if the Chargers could go back in time and fire Marty in January, they would. Then they'd try to keep Cam or Wade on board. But it's too late for that now.

At the same time, even with friction they went 14-2. If I was the owner I would have gotten them in a room together and lit them up like a Christmas tree...I would be mad at AJ for not firing Marty right after the loss...that's of course if Spanos didn't tell AJ he had to keep MS which he might have, I wasn't there unfortunately. I just think that no matter how this is spun, the Chargers are no longer the favorite to do anything in the Playoffs next season. And if they go as a #3 seed and even if they win that 1st game, they still do not advance any further then Marty did even though he lost in the 1st round. I don't see SD going to the AFC Championship now. Norv Turner...vs Bellicheck and Dungy...no way.

 

[Liquid Tension]

I don't agree with your conclusion. Part of being a good leader is surrounding yourself with talented people. How many head coaches do well with poor assistants? Parcell's hasn't won anything without BB on his staff. Also, Turner is being expected to run the offense on top of running the team. Or do you think Mike Martz does a lot for the defense?

So Norv is going to have Cotrell (respectable DC) as DC, and a guy from within be OC. I'm not sure your point. I'm not trying to argue, I just don't see what you are trying to say.

Who do head coaches call offensive plays but not defensive schemes?

Some coaches DO call defensive schemes, and leave the O to the OC.

That should say "why do more "head coaches call offensive plays than defensive schemes. BB does it more than others, but the point is that coaches are hired to handle a side of the ball as part of their responsibilities. (Redmen didn't think so)As for the first part, it was in response to RedMen concluding that I don't think Turner is a good coach if I am saying that he needs to hire good people to be successful. My opinion is more in line with all coaches need to hire good people to be successful.I think Turner will get SD to the playoffs, but I would not call that being ultra successful. I do know one thing, if the team collapses and it isn't because of major injuries than we all know Turner should be the OC somewhere and should not be a head coach.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

ESPN Radio is reporting that Rivera is heading to San Diego to meet with the Chargers.

Now that I like a whole lot better than Cotrell. Seriously...if Turner imploded you have a guy that many think should be a HC...this would save a little face for the front office.

 

[Family Matters]

I really would have liked the job to have gone to Rex Ryan. I'm somewhat disappointed that the head coach will be Norv Turner.That said, I feel silly second-guessing AJ Smith after he's spent the week personally interviewing candidates and I've spent the week posting to an internet message board.I can't find the quote, so I'll paraphrase what Milton Friedman once said to another economist who expressed disappointment that Friedman agreed with a third economist on some matter. "First, he has more information on the subject than you do. Second, if you both had the same information, I would trust his judgment over yours."AJ Smith has a lot more information on all of the candidates that were under consideration than I do. And even if we had the same information, he's better at evaluating it than I am. So it would be unjustified for me to second-guess him on his decision at this point.

MT-This might be the post of the year. Sometimes it's good to keep ourselves in perspective. Having opinions shared on this board is one thing but they are just that, opinions. Otherwise we are just second guessing what we think might be going on with these professionals. Well said.

 

[S.K.A.]

I really would have liked the job to have gone to Rex Ryan. I'm somewhat disappointed that the head coach will be Norv Turner.

That said, I feel silly second-guessing AJ Smith after he's spent the week personally interviewing candidates and I've spent the week posting to an internet message board.

I can't find the quote, so I'll paraphrase what Milton Friedman once said to another economist who expressed disappointment that Friedman agreed with a third economist on some matter. "First, he has more information on the subject than you do. Second, if you both had the same information, I would trust his judgment over yours."

AJ Smith has a lot more information on all of the candidates that were under consideration than I do. And even if we had the same information, he's better at evaluating it than I am. So it would be unjustified for me to second-guess him on his decision at this point.

Ewe's logic. That statement can be said for any coaching hire in the nfl. I guess there is no questioning or second guessing any hire until it is obvious that they have failed?Chargers will go 10-6 and possibly get to the second round of the playoffs. This will be the defining moment that Charger fans and nfl fans point to when the Chargers slip back to mediocrity. I predict that their window will close in two seasons.

No amount of sugar-coating will change that.

 

[switz]

ESPN Radio is reporting that Rivera is heading to San Diego to meet with the Chargers.

If they get Rivera, it wil be a coup... Cotrell would be good, but Rivera is one of the finest DCs in the business. I was shocked CHI let him go, essentially freeing him to go be a DC, instead of forcing other teams to offer him the HC job.Unless, this is why AJ and Spanos were all excited the other day... hmm.

 

[switz]

I do know one thing, if the team collapses and it isn't because of major injuries than we all know Turner should be the OC somewhere and should not be a head coach.

I think we all can agree on that one!!

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

I really would have liked the job to have gone to Rex Ryan. I'm somewhat disappointed that the head coach will be Norv Turner.

That said, I feel silly second-guessing AJ Smith after he's spent the week personally interviewing candidates and I've spent the week posting to an internet message board.

I can't find the quote, so I'll paraphrase what Milton Friedman once said to another economist who expressed disappointment that Friedman agreed with a third economist on some matter. "First, he has more information on the subject than you do. Second, if you both had the same information, I would trust his judgment over yours."

AJ Smith has a lot more information on all of the candidates that were under consideration than I do. And even if we had the same information, he's better at evaluating it than I am. So it would be unjustified for me to second-guess him on his decision at this point.

Ewe's logic. That statement can be said for any coaching hire in the nfl. I guess there is no questioning or second guessing any hire until it is obvious that they have failed?

We can question and second-guess anything we want. We're fans. It's a message board. Part of what we do to entertain ourselves is to second-guess everybody about everything.We should just take our own musings on these subjects with a huge grain of salt, recognizing the informational disadvantage we as fans have vis-a-vis the general managers we are criticizing.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

We should just take our own musings on these subjects with a huge grain of salt, recognizing the informational disadvantage we as fans have vis-a-vis the general managers we are criticizing.

And by the way, I post this same thought every year on draft day.