Gopher State
Footballguy
well week two goes to Thomas Jones. KC running game is a mess from a FF point
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
Charles (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter the spanker
- Start date
NatronIsMean
Footballguy
Interestingly enough, the game is "feeling" to Haley like it needs a plodder very often. Wierd. I don't get that feeling at all but we're talking about "feelings" so who knows...
Rick James
Footballguy
the awful thing about all this is KC's record. They're 2-0, and I'm positive Haley sees that and thinks "well, I'm doing it right".
Sure wish KC was 0-2 right now.
Sure wish KC was 0-2 right now.
fruity pebbles
Footballguy
He does have what 180 odd yards through 2 games. Itd be nice if he got a few more touches esp in non running situations but he is still on pace for a good year. My biggest gripe is the way the Chefs are using him. Get the guy into space, a couple times a game hes very close to breaking one.
Usually, I think coaches know better than fans when it comes to determining to best divide playing time among players.
I think this is an exception.
But it's hard to argue with 2-0. He'll get a pass as long as he's winning — except from Charles's fantasy owners.
I think this is an exception.
But it's hard to argue with 2-0. He'll get a pass as long as he's winning — except from Charles's fantasy owners.
theplayer11
Footballguy
Is it true that he didn't get his first carry until the 3rd qtr?.. If so, then there is something going on that we just don't get. Not practicing hard?..
No, thats not true. It was late 1st Q, IIRC. You can check the nfl.com gamebook play by play.Still, way way too late in the game to be getting his hands on the ball.
OU#1
Footballguy
No this is not true. He had six whopping carries in the first half.
Craig_MiamiFL
Footballguy
Haley's feel has them 2-0.
VaTerp
Footballguy
They won a fluky game in a partial downpour in the home opener on Monday nite. Then beat a bad team with a backup QB by 2 pts.A win is a win in the NFL but let's not act like Haley is doing a great coaching job. IMO the Chiefs have won the 1st 2 games in spite of Haley, Weiss, and Cassell. As a Charles owner Im just hoping for a big 2nd half of the season when Jones starts to wear down and the 3 stooges in KC realize they have to give their best offensive player more touches if they want to continue winning games.
Babu Bhatt2
Footballguy
The time to trade him was after last week.
Winky the tunnel ferret
Footballguy
I'm actually looking to trade FOR Charles. At least if the negativity in this thread is any indication.
I'm inclined to agree. The Chiefs won't be able to keep winning these games ugly going forward with their otherwise woeful offense.They'll face a disgruntled and desperate 49ers team next week followed by the Colts and Texans after their bye.Furthermore, Thomas Jones won't have a softball run D like the Browns to rack up plodding yardage against every week to seemingly justify his "starter" status in Haley's eye.Best case scenario for Kansas City would be if Jones somehow got injured which would essentially force them to lean on Jamaal again and make their offense a potent weapon. But until then, Cassel will continue to struggle and Jamaal will remain a "backup" until this team starts losing games again.
DoGdr
Footballguy
My sense is Charles is more valuable as a fantasy player if the Chiefs are losing. Certainly he is more likely to be involved in the passing game as they come back from behind. He seems like the ideal checkdown, screen, swing pass guy for a shaky QB. He is more explosive. Jones more the guy you use to control possession.
My concern is KC's D may be good enough to keep them in low scoring ugly games this year.
What we Charles Owners need if for the Chiefs to start losing!
My concern is KC's D may be good enough to keep them in low scoring ugly games this year.
What we Charles Owners need if for the Chiefs to start losing!
Otis
Footballguy
If it wasn't a downpour holding SD's pass offense in check and a McCluster return TD, they don't beat SD. Heck, they probably wouldn't have won if Charles doesn't score a TD inspite of lack of carries. If Flowers doesn't return an INT for a TD, they might not beat Cleveland with Seneca Wallace.They are lucky to be 2-0 and they will not make the playoffs. Haley hasn't done anything to win the games. Charles, McCluster and Flowers have. They have 37 points in two games against meh defenses and 21 of them were on plays that won't happen every week. The Thomas Jones/Cassell led offense is averaging 8 points per game.
Touchdown There
Footballguy
Third offensive series, not quarter.theplayer11 said:
StoneyBrook
Footballguy
Though Haley's comments have been maddening.....it's been two weeks. Charles still has 180 yards and a touchdown. This past week vs. Cleveland is just the kind of game where Jones is going to grind it out. Like everyone is saying, the winning isn't helping but they have been fortunate to win the way they have. Kickoff returns/INT for TD's....it's not the kind of formula that can be sustained. Things will get straightened out. I would buy Charles in seasonal and steal him in dynasty leagues.
Area51Inhabitant
Footballguy
I'm going to ride this train out with Charles. I'm probably going to feel some short turn pain but I still feel like he could get on a roll like last year and might wind up carrying me through the week 10 - 15 games. Trading him now would definitely be a trade low scenario which makes little sense given his upside when he'll inevitably be given more work imo.
Jones' 3.7 YPC will likely dwindle; the veteran will start to breakdown like last season; the Chiefs will play some DECENT teams; the Chiefs will find that Charles' amazing YPC isn't going away; the Chiefs will be scrapping for that division early on.
Be patient. Charles will get his.
Be patient. Charles will get his.
Resident A
Footballguy
I have Charles in 2 leagues & there is just no way I can keep starting him until he becomes more involved. I'll be looking at other RB options for Week 3.
T with T
Footballguy
he didn't get a carry til late first last game and first carry was 56 yard td then he only had 6 carries in first half... instead of 50 50 split in week 2 they doubled Jones carries 22 to charles 11 while charles still held the better ypc 4.5 to 3.8. Charles also had 1 catch, I repeat 1 catch for 27 yards???? I really am confused about this whole thing and is beg to become a fantasy nightmare ... with 15-20 carries and 3-5 catches I doubt anyone argues he is a stud but with 12 touches a game he is nothing more then a back up or 3rd down backvandyt said:
Last edited by a moderator:
T with T
Footballguy
veryFrostBite said:
I thought the same thing.. tons of times chiefs went 3 and out and I thought to myself boy if charles was in here for some toss, screen passes or bubble screens or a run up the middle he would have had another first down, instead they like floundering around with jones and winning ugly ball games.. haley is just a weirdo what can you sayTrue that. The NFL is all about speed and talent. Apparently, no one has clued in Haley and Weis on that. Jones is the type of back that defenses love. A 3-4 yard plodder with no game breaking speed to take it to the house. Nobody wants a Charles, CJ, or Best type to juke them and blow right by them.
B. Nugget
Footballguy
It's too bad some of you Charles owners wouldn't listen in the off-season/pre-season. It would have saved you a lot of headaches so far...
To recap:
1. Charles is the most talented and electrifying player on the team. Nobody is disputing this by saying TJ should be starting.
2. Haley doesn't seem to think he can handle the workload and pound the rock and grind out yards to win ugly games
3. Todd Haley thinks he is very smart, so far it is working because the defense/ST has made plays to keep the offense in games.
4. Cassell is the most indecisive 2-0 QB I've ever seen...
TJ was brought in to be the veteran leader and while it isn't sexy, his job is to grind it out and not turn it over, while Charles is the clear CHANGE OF PACE back right now.
I said it last week, I'm saying it again for the JC owners that don't seem to understand, nothing has changed for Haley and they are winning ugly and TJ has a defined role in this offense. There will be days when Charles busts multiple runs, but those are anybody's guess from what I can tell, barring injuries of course.
Quote from Haley “We have a clear-cut plan for how we want to start the game, how we want to do things,” Haley said. “Today was a grind-it-out type of day.”
I also heard a radio interview where he said something to the effect of "this is what you should expect from us, it is isn't going to be pretty, but it has worked so far and we are 2-0".
To me, that means they aren't changing what is working...
To recap:
1. Charles is the most talented and electrifying player on the team. Nobody is disputing this by saying TJ should be starting.
2. Haley doesn't seem to think he can handle the workload and pound the rock and grind out yards to win ugly games
3. Todd Haley thinks he is very smart, so far it is working because the defense/ST has made plays to keep the offense in games.
4. Cassell is the most indecisive 2-0 QB I've ever seen...
TJ was brought in to be the veteran leader and while it isn't sexy, his job is to grind it out and not turn it over, while Charles is the clear CHANGE OF PACE back right now.
I said it last week, I'm saying it again for the JC owners that don't seem to understand, nothing has changed for Haley and they are winning ugly and TJ has a defined role in this offense. There will be days when Charles busts multiple runs, but those are anybody's guess from what I can tell, barring injuries of course.
Quote from Haley “We have a clear-cut plan for how we want to start the game, how we want to do things,” Haley said. “Today was a grind-it-out type of day.”
I also heard a radio interview where he said something to the effect of "this is what you should expect from us, it is isn't going to be pretty, but it has worked so far and we are 2-0".
To me, that means they aren't changing what is working...
Last edited by a moderator:
zamboni
Footballguy
To be fair, it's not just Charles not getting the ball. McCluster only had one touch from scrimmage - a running play - with only a few unsuccessful receiving targets from Cassel.
For some reason, Haley is woefully underutilizing his two most explosive playmakers. Again, with the team 2-0, Haley is probably thinking to go with what is working, but at some point - undoubtedly soon - they are going to have to put some points up on the board.
For some reason, Haley is woefully underutilizing his two most explosive playmakers. Again, with the team 2-0, Haley is probably thinking to go with what is working, but at some point - undoubtedly soon - they are going to have to put some points up on the board.
Last edited by a moderator:
You can say this, but it doesn't make it true, necessarily. It has worked so far thanks largely to great (scoring) plays by the defense and special teams and the fact that one of their opponents so far is likely to pick in the top 3, if not #1. Many of us feel that the Chiefs are 2-0 IN SPITE OF how Haley has used the rbs, not because of it. The end result has been wins, so Haley will continue as is, which at least temporarily severely limits Charles. The competition will get tougher, the Chiefs will not score tds on Defense/special teams every week. Eventually, things should improve for Charles...though he may not be the electric rb with top 5 potential that so many thought they drafted.The Chiefs are 30th in total offense right now. They will need more out of the offense soon enough.
That right there is telling.
Hipple Long Ware & Peete
Footballguy
first time I have seen someone quote someone with a one word "quote". That can't be proper english....ponchsox said:
You are exactly right, as long as they win with the 30th ranked offense, they will keep playing that way. I'm betting that this defense/running game formula isn't one that the Chiefs have the personnel to effectively sustain for much longer. Regardless, Charles is no better than a #3 rb right now. Hopefully most that drafted him were able to get Best, Foster, Bradshaw, or another productive rb later in their drafts.
PahtyTom
Footballguy
weeks 5,6,7,8
@ Ind
@ Hou
Jax
Buf
the first 2 have Charles written all over them as they are weaker defenses and KC should finally be playing from behind all game. The next 2 are interesting because they are bad run defenses but KC might be ahead or in tight games. The hope is that after Charles has monster games vs Ind and Hou trying to lead his team back Haley is finally forced to use his best player more.
That is my story and im sticking to it
@ Ind
@ Hou
Jax
Buf
the first 2 have Charles written all over them as they are weaker defenses and KC should finally be playing from behind all game. The next 2 are interesting because they are bad run defenses but KC might be ahead or in tight games. The hope is that after Charles has monster games vs Ind and Hou trying to lead his team back Haley is finally forced to use his best player more.
That is my story and im sticking to it
fruity pebbles
Footballguy
People goin off the deep end. Hes 14th among RBs in the league im in. Ahead of SJax, Addai, MJD, Deangelo, Ray Rice etc.
ponchsox
Footballguy
Plus two games against the Raiders.
Fullback Fro
yesno
Do you have some sort of blog I can subscribe to? Your knowledge is AMAZING.
B. Nugget
Footballguy
You know Fullback Fro, I respect your opinion on these boards, but could you please tell me what is inaccurate in my statement?
I'm not necessarily saying listen to me, I'm talking about what Haley was saying about "riding the hot hand", "what TJ brings to the team in terms of leadership", "TJ's toughness was something they didn't have at the position", etc... and then made him the starter in pre-season and has gushed about him while calling Charles a "developing player".
If the coach is quoted to saying TJ is the guy and then gives him TWICE as many carries and JC owners still cry about him not getting the carries, does that make it not true? TJ actually looked pretty good yesterday and his ypc dropped off later in the game when they were running out the clock and went super conservative with their playcalling to preserve the win.
Get this, I think now is the time to buy low on JC in dynasty leagues. It is also the time to quit whining about your guy not getting carries early in the season (not to mention vultured if they ever make it to the goalline, we'll cross that bridge if/when we get there) when it has been painfully obvious that this was the plan for awhile.
Some of us have been predicting a Chris Johnson 2008 season for Charles with TJ playing the LenDale role keeping him fresh and scoring goal line TDs, while the people that are heavily invested seem to think it is a crime that he isn't in line for a 2009 Chris Johnson season...this is a different team (thank God!) than the last 8 weeks of last season and so far, Haley thinks what he is doing is working so you aren't going to see a change from a very stubborn coach.
If you aren't down with that, then we can agree to disagree and Charles owners will start a new thread each week right next to the Felix Jones thread.
I'm not necessarily saying listen to me, I'm talking about what Haley was saying about "riding the hot hand", "what TJ brings to the team in terms of leadership", "TJ's toughness was something they didn't have at the position", etc... and then made him the starter in pre-season and has gushed about him while calling Charles a "developing player".
If the coach is quoted to saying TJ is the guy and then gives him TWICE as many carries and JC owners still cry about him not getting the carries, does that make it not true? TJ actually looked pretty good yesterday and his ypc dropped off later in the game when they were running out the clock and went super conservative with their playcalling to preserve the win.
Get this, I think now is the time to buy low on JC in dynasty leagues. It is also the time to quit whining about your guy not getting carries early in the season (not to mention vultured if they ever make it to the goalline, we'll cross that bridge if/when we get there) when it has been painfully obvious that this was the plan for awhile.
Some of us have been predicting a Chris Johnson 2008 season for Charles with TJ playing the LenDale role keeping him fresh and scoring goal line TDs, while the people that are heavily invested seem to think it is a crime that he isn't in line for a 2009 Chris Johnson season...this is a different team (thank God!) than the last 8 weeks of last season and so far, Haley thinks what he is doing is working so you aren't going to see a change from a very stubborn coach.
If you aren't down with that, then we can agree to disagree and Charles owners will start a new thread each week right next to the Felix Jones thread.
Last edited by a moderator:
Fullback Fro
yesno
I would like a link to your blog, please.
Last edited by a moderator:
Otis
Footballguy
:dorsalfin:
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
Jamaal Charles acknowledges he is No.2 RB behind Thomas Jones
According to Kent Babb of the Kansas City Star, after the Chiefs' win-ugly victory over the Cleveland Browns Jamaal Charles admitted he is the No.2 running back behind Thomas Jones. Charles, who many analysts pegged as the breakout star of 2010 after a great performance following Larry Johnson's trade last year, had half the carries as many carries as Jones and did not touch the ball until the Chiefs' first possession.
“I don’t have any complaints,” Charles said. “Hey, man, as long as we win games around here, it doesn’t matter to me.”
Charles is saying all of the right things and he seems sincere but how long can the Chiefs keep a talent like Charles on the bench? Haley didn’t explain Sunday when he was asked why Charles, who broke a 56-yard touchdown run last Monday against San Diego, hasn’t played more. He indicated that it was about the game plan and the Chiefs’ strengths against Cleveland. “We have a clear-cut plan for how we want to start the game, how we want to do things,” Haley said. “Today was a grind-it-out type of day.” “We have a clear-cut plan for how we want to start the game, how we want to do things,” Haley said. “Today was a grind-it-out type of day.”
According to Kent Babb of the Kansas City Star, after the Chiefs' win-ugly victory over the Cleveland Browns Jamaal Charles admitted he is the No.2 running back behind Thomas Jones. Charles, who many analysts pegged as the breakout star of 2010 after a great performance following Larry Johnson's trade last year, had half the carries as many carries as Jones and did not touch the ball until the Chiefs' first possession.
“I don’t have any complaints,” Charles said. “Hey, man, as long as we win games around here, it doesn’t matter to me.”
Charles is saying all of the right things and he seems sincere but how long can the Chiefs keep a talent like Charles on the bench? Haley didn’t explain Sunday when he was asked why Charles, who broke a 56-yard touchdown run last Monday against San Diego, hasn’t played more. He indicated that it was about the game plan and the Chiefs’ strengths against Cleveland. “We have a clear-cut plan for how we want to start the game, how we want to do things,” Haley said. “Today was a grind-it-out type of day.” “We have a clear-cut plan for how we want to start the game, how we want to do things,” Haley said. “Today was a grind-it-out type of day.”
VaTerp
Footballguy
This has been repeated SEVERAL times in this thread. But to me it's a complete non-issue. Where is the actual quote from Charles saying that he is a "backup" or that he is the "number 2?" All he is saying is that "he doesn't have any complaints." Which is the right thing to say. He gains nothing by complaining about playing time and opportunity when the team is 2-0.As a Charles owner I was not blind to this situation coming into my draft. But it's a long season and cream usually has a way of rising to the top. I would be lying if I said I wasnt disappointed that Charles isnt getting more touches after 2 weeks but I drafted him b/c I think that he will be productive enough with the touches that he does get AND eventually I think he will get more touches.
Like I said before, the Chiefs are off to a 2-0 start but their offense has been very underwhelming overall. They will need to incorporate Charles into the offene more and I envision a scenario where he has a big second half of the season. Depending on what happens tonite I should be 2-0 after this week. So like Haley, my "plan" is working out to this point. And like Haley, we will need Charles to be more productive if we are going to continue to win games. Hopefully, the KC coaching staff realizes this at the right time and Charles' touches will increase as we go along here.
