Charter Schools (1 Viewer)

[igbomb]

The Detroit Free Press is publishing a series of articles on charter schools in the state and it's not friendly to the charters.

Michigan is maybe the most charter friendly state in the country and for-profit charters are everywhere around here, in both bad and good districts.

State of charter schools: How Michigan spends $1 billion but fails to hold schools accountable

I'll admit that I was rather ignorant about charters in general before the last few years but I've learned enough to realize that at a minimum the for-profit variety are really bad news for education.

 

[NCCommish]

There is very little proof that charters in general are better than public schools. Some are but some public schools are also excellent.

 

[Eviloutsider]

I work at a non-profit charter school catering to multiple intelligences and the arts. We are like every other school, working on our flaws, catering to a wide variety of students, and doing our best to provide a solid education. The main difference is in the teaching style and learning style of the students. That doesn't stop the local public from absolutely blasting us at every chance through word of mouth, in the press, etc.

 

[Mohawk]

Every penny that goes to charter schools, is a penny lost to public schools. I am a firm believer in the value of public school education. The fewer private/charter options the better, imo.

 

[Eviloutsider]

Every penny that goes to charter schools, is a penny lost to public schools. I am a firm believer in the value of public school education. The fewer private/charter options the better, imo.

Charter schools here are public schools, open to anyone.

 

[NCCommish]

Every penny that goes to charter schools, is a penny lost to public schools. I am a firm believer in the value of public school education. The fewer private/charter options the better, imo.

Charter schools here are public schools, open to anyone.

In a lot of places it doesn't work that way. Here we have magnet schools which are kind of like in system specialty charter schools that are public. Charter schools are more like private schools.

 

[jonessed]

Every penny that goes to charter schools, is a penny lost to public schools. I am a firm believer in the value of public school education. The fewer private/charter options the better, imo.

Charter schools here are public schools, open to anyone.

We have some charter schools near us that, if taken away, would see movement to private schools and outside districts. They are also open to anyone and the majority of spaces are filled via lottery.

This is the first time I've heard of a for-profit charter. That doesn't sound like a good idea.

 

[Cjw_55106]

Let me start by saying I dont have a solution.

The education system in this country is a unique problem IMO. It really is the only situation that I can think of where we are forced to deal with things directly and it’s the kids that have to deal with it, which I think is ridiculous.

In the world outside of education, we have choices. I don’t have to work with a jackass. I don’t have to talk to a snob. I don’t have to interact with anyone that I don’t want to. With schools, kids are forced to be with other kids that don’t value education, don’t care about rules and have little to no repercussions for bad behavior. Teachers are thrown into baby sitter situations more often than simply being educators anymore. They are forced to deal with bull#### because these troubled students have the right to be there.

I dont know what the answers are, but I know the system doesnt work in its current state.

 

[Doug B]

Every penny that goes to charter schools, is a penny lost to public schools. I am a firm believer in the value of public school education. The fewer private/charter options the better, imo.

Charter schools here are public schools, open to anyone.

Ditto down here ... my son attends a school much like the one you describe. You're not in Louisiana, by chance?

New Orleans (in the city itself, not the 'burbs) public schools are about 90% non-profit charters, though they are beholden to state government oversight. Charters that go off the reservation too far or that perform poorly get their charters revoked with some regularity. But the cream has risen, as the process has been in place since a few months after Katrina.

 

[igbomb]

Every penny that goes to charter schools, is a penny lost to public schools. I am a firm believer in the value of public school education. The fewer private/charter options the better, imo.

Charter schools here are public schools, open to anyone.

I can only speak for Michigan but the charter schools here are most definitely not for everyone.

They will claim that they are and they fill spots through open enrollment or lottery. But the charter then counsels out those kids that they aren't equipped to handle (special needs). They also don't offer bussing yet get nearly the exact same funding as the public school does. So they end up creating an environment which is great for middle class white kids. Almost no special needs kids and only those with enough money to drop their kids off every day for school.

It's ridiculous that they can get away with it.

 

[NCCommish]

Let me start by saying I dont have a solution.

The education system in this country is a unique problem IMO. It really is the only situation that I can think of where we are forced to deal with things directly and it’s the kids that have to deal with it, which I think is ridiculous.

In the world outside of education, we have choices. I don’t have to work with a jackass. I don’t have to talk to a snob. I don’t have to interact with anyone that I don’t want to. With schools, kids are forced to be with other kids that don’t value education, don’t care about rules and have little to no repercussions for bad behavior. Teachers are thrown into baby sitter situations more often than simply being educators anymore. They are forced to deal with bull#### because these troubled students have the right to be there.

I dont know what the answers are, but I know the system doesnt work in its current state.

Of course it works. We produce millions of educated children every year. They go on to be productive citizens many get college degrees. That doesn't mean it works for everyone. We can certainly work with some changes. But we have to start admitting that the problem often starts at home. Some times it's an economic problem. Some times it's social. Some times there is someone at fault for the problem sometimes it's just life. We need to do more to help those at risk kids and parents find a way to help themselves achieve.

 

[MAC_32]

I won't speak for the charter school system outside of Ohio, but here it is a total disaster. 10% of them are run great, which is what is helping making them a more popular option for decision maker's. Problem is the other 90%.

 

[Cjw_55106]

Let me start by saying I dont have a solution.

The education system in this country is a unique problem IMO. It really is the only situation that I can think of where we are forced to deal with things directly and it’s the kids that have to deal with it, which I think is ridiculous.

In the world outside of education, we have choices. I don’t have to work with a jackass. I don’t have to talk to a snob. I don’t have to interact with anyone that I don’t want to. With schools, kids are forced to be with other kids that don’t value education, don’t care about rules and have little to no repercussions for bad behavior. Teachers are thrown into baby sitter situations more often than simply being educators anymore. They are forced to deal with bull#### because these troubled students have the right to be there.

I dont know what the answers are, but I know the system doesnt work in its current state.

Of course it works. We produce millions of educated children every year. They go on to be productive citizens many get college degrees. That doesn't mean it works for everyone. We can certainly work with some changes. But we have to start admitting that the problem often starts at home. Some times it's an economic problem. Some times it's social. Some times there is someone at fault for the problem sometimes it's just life. We need to do more to help those at risk kids and parents find a way to help themselves achieve.

Admittedly, it works to an extent. It's nowhere near where it could be, might have been a better way to phrase it.

 

[igbomb]

The poor state of the U.S. education system has been taken as a given by a lot of people for a long time. And that's only bolstered whenever the international rankings come out. But I recall reading recently that if you adjusted for income or wealth, then the U.S. is right on par with the best of the world. It all boils down to the fact that we have a far higher ratio of people in poverty than other developed countries.

So it's not an education problem. It's a poverty problem.

 

[humpback]

Every penny that goes to charter schools, is a penny lost to public schools. I am a firm believer in the value of public school education. The fewer private/charter options the better, imo.

Charter schools here are public schools, open to anyone.

In a lot of places it doesn't work that way. Here we have magnet schools which are kind of like in system specialty charter schools that are public. Charter schools are more like private schools.

But they're still public, right? His statement doesn't make any sense.

 

[NCCommish]

The poor state of the U.S. education system has been taken as a given by a lot of people for a long time. And that's only bolstered whenever the international rankings come out. But I recall reading recently that if you adjusted for income or wealth, then the U.S. is right on par with the best of the world. It all boils down to the fact that we have a far higher ratio of people in poverty than other developed countries.

So it's not an education problem. It's a poverty problem.

Right

 

[massraider]

Let me start by saying I dont have a solution.

The education system in this country is a unique problem IMO. It really is the only situation that I can think of where we are forced to deal with things directly and its the kids that have to deal with it, which I think is ridiculous.

In the world outside of education, we have choices. I dont have to work with a jackass. I dont have to talk to a snob. I dont have to interact with anyone that I dont want to. With schools, kids are forced to be with other kids that dont value education, dont care about rules and have little to no repercussions for bad behavior. Teachers are thrown into baby sitter situations more often than simply being educators anymore. They are forced to deal with bull#### because these troubled students have the right to be there.

I dont know what the answers are, but I know the system doesnt work in its current state.

Of course it works. We produce millions of educated children every year. They go on to be productive citizens many get college degrees. That doesn't mean it works for everyone. We can certainly work with some changes. But we have to start admitting that the problem often starts at home. Some times it's an economic problem. Some times it's social. Some times there is someone at fault for the problem sometimes it's just life. We need to do more to help those at risk kids and parents find a way to help themselves achieve.

Yeah.There are a huge number of resources available for families that want to take advantage of them. If parents want their kids to excel, they can.

Lots of garbage parents out there

 

[igbomb]

Every penny that goes to charter schools, is a penny lost to public schools. I am a firm believer in the value of public school education. The fewer private/charter options the better, imo.

Charter schools here are public schools, open to anyone.

In a lot of places it doesn't work that way. Here we have magnet schools which are kind of like in system specialty charter schools that are public. Charter schools are more like private schools.

But they're still public, right? His statement doesn't make any sense.

Charter schools are only public in the sense that they get public funding. They have no transparency. Their board is not elected, it's appointed. And they do not provide the same breadth of services that the traditional public schools do.

So if you want to get into semantics you can argue they are public. But they certainly don't operate like they are.

In fact, one of the videos on the original link I posted has someone affiliated with the charters saying that he thinks that once the money gets handed to the charters it becomes private money for them to do with as they see fit.

If you go to freep.com without adblocker you will see that National Heritage Academies, the primary subject of the Free Press takedown, has bought all of the ad space on the freep homepage. That is public dollars at work that instead of going into the classroom is being used to try to offset the bad press.

 

[Cjw_55106]

So if I'm poor, I can't get an education in this country?

It isn't a poverty problem. It's a "why are we in poverty" problem. In my experience, nothing will get you into or keep you in poverty more than a lack of education. Some people don't value education. They refuse to make it a priority for them or their children. It isn't coincidence or bad luck that families rely on the system and live in poverty generation after generation.

 

[Doug B]

So if I'm poor, I can't get an education in this country? ... Some people don't value education. They refuse to make it a priority for them or their children. It isn't coincidence or bad luck that families rely on the system and live in poverty generation after generation.

I cut out some of your post, because it looked to me like the back half of your post directly supported your opening queston.

Succinctly: how do you force people who live a "poverty lifestyle" with "poverty values" to live like and value the same things as "Leave it to Beaver" America? Can success of any kind come from living life "the wrong way"? Are people truly free to do whatever they want, whatever they feel, and still achieve sucess in our society?

It might be helpful, too, to recognize a divide between "not having money, but doing one's best" and "hostile to education and to abiding the law, and content to live off the system". Probably other sub-groupings as well, but they all look the same in naked statistics.

 

[igbomb]

So if I'm poor, I can't get an education in this country?

It isn't a poverty problem. It's a "why are we in poverty" problem. In my experience, nothing will get you into or keep you in poverty more than a lack of education. Some people don't value education. They refuse to make it a priority for them or their children. It isn't coincidence or bad luck that families rely on the system and live in poverty generation after generation.

These kinds of statements show such an ignorance of basic human development and psychology. It gets old seeing people parrot these 'motivation' or 'accountability' excuses as the reason we are where we are as a nation. No other developed nation has the poverty issue we have. And it's not close. Our population is a product of the environment they grow up in. If you grow up poor and experience all that entails, the odds are heavily stacked that you will remain poor. Yes, there are countless anecdotes of poor people crawling out of it through sheer determination. And they should be applauded. But that is not the norm. If you grow up where no one has a job, no one is educated, you see violence constantly and kids having kids, how on earth do you expect that person to turn into a responsible adult? And if they don't, are they a bad or weak person? Or are they just the outcome from the environment they grew up in?

We, collectively as a nation over time, have developed the system that creates this never-ending cycle of poverty. If someone can show me the scientific evidence that shows that Americans are genetically predisposed to be lazy bastards I'll buy the lack of initiative argument. Otherwise it's a useless canard to try to easily explain a rather complex mess.

 

[humpback]

Every penny that goes to charter schools, is a penny lost to public schools. I am a firm believer in the value of public school education. The fewer private/charter options the better, imo.

Charter schools here are public schools, open to anyone.

In a lot of places it doesn't work that way. Here we have magnet schools which are kind of like in system specialty charter schools that are public. Charter schools are more like private schools.

But they're still public, right? His statement doesn't make any sense.

Charter schools are only public in the sense that they get public funding. They have no transparency. Their board is not elected, it's appointed. And they do not provide the same breadth of services that the traditional public schools do.

So if you want to get into semantics you can argue they are public. But they certainly don't operate like they are.

In fact, one of the videos on the original link I posted has someone affiliated with the charters saying that he thinks that once the money gets handed to the charters it becomes private money for them to do with as they see fit.

If you go to freep.com without adblocker you will see that National Heritage Academies, the primary subject of the Free Press takedown, has bought all of the ad space on the freep homepage. That is public dollars at work that instead of going into the classroom is being used to try to offset the bad press.

Like I said, they're public.

 

[Cjw_55106]

So if I'm poor, I can't get an education in this country?

It isn't a poverty problem. It's a "why are we in poverty" problem. In my experience, nothing will get you into or keep you in poverty more than a lack of education. Some people don't value education. They refuse to make it a priority for them or their children. It isn't coincidence or bad luck that families rely on the system and live in poverty generation after generation.

These kinds of statements show such an ignorance of basic human development and psychology. It gets old seeing people parrot these 'motivation' or 'accountability' excuses as the reason we are where we are as a nation. No other developed nation has the poverty issue we have. And it's not close. Our population is a product of the environment they grow up in. If you grow up poor and experience all that entails, the odds are heavily stacked that you will remain poor. Yes, there are countless anecdotes of poor people crawling out of it through sheer determination. And they should be applauded. But that is not the norm. If you grow up where no one has a job, no one is educated, you see violence constantly and kids having kids, how on earth do you expect that person to turn into a responsible adult? And if they don't, are they a bad or weak person? Or are they just the outcome from the environment they grew up in?

We, collectively as a nation over time, have developed the system that creates this never-ending cycle of poverty. If someone can show me the scientific evidence that shows that Americans are genetically predisposed to be lazy bastards I'll buy the lack of initiative argument. Otherwise it's a useless canard to try to easily explain a rather complex mess.

So, according to your post, why bother? It sure seems to me that many kids are lost causes.

 

[igbomb]

So if I'm poor, I can't get an education in this country?

It isn't a poverty problem. It's a "why are we in poverty" problem. In my experience, nothing will get you into or keep you in poverty more than a lack of education. Some people don't value education. They refuse to make it a priority for them or their children. It isn't coincidence or bad luck that families rely on the system and live in poverty generation after generation.

These kinds of statements show such an ignorance of basic human development and psychology. It gets old seeing people parrot these 'motivation' or 'accountability' excuses as the reason we are where we are as a nation. No other developed nation has the poverty issue we have. And it's not close. Our population is a product of the environment they grow up in. If you grow up poor and experience all that entails, the odds are heavily stacked that you will remain poor. Yes, there are countless anecdotes of poor people crawling out of it through sheer determination. And they should be applauded. But that is not the norm. If you grow up where no one has a job, no one is educated, you see violence constantly and kids having kids, how on earth do you expect that person to turn into a responsible adult? And if they don't, are they a bad or weak person? Or are they just the outcome from the environment they grew up in?

We, collectively as a nation over time, have developed the system that creates this never-ending cycle of poverty. If someone can show me the scientific evidence that shows that Americans are genetically predisposed to be lazy bastards I'll buy the lack of initiative argument. Otherwise it's a useless canard to try to easily explain a rather complex mess.

So, according to your post, why bother? It sure seems to me that many kids are lost causes.

Nowhere in my post did I suggest 'why bother'. And none of my posts in the past on the poverty topic have suggested that either.

I don't pretend to have the solutions. But the current approaches to poverty haven't worked. And the idea that if we just cut down the social welfare even more to motivate people to act for themselves is ridiculous. I'm not suggesting you've made that claim but many on this board do.

The U.S. needs to get real on how to address poverty. Less funding is not the answer. Programs that continue the status quo are not the answer. We need comprehensive programs that enable people to more forward. There are a lot of benchmarks out there in the world if our politicians were willing to concede for one moment that other nations may have some smart ideas to add to the conversation.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Unbelieveably horrible decision here from WA state Supreme Court:

Washington charter school law unconstitutional, Supreme Court findsOLYMPIA

The Washington Supreme Court has ruled the state’s voter-approved charter-school law unconstitutional.

The decision casts a shadow over Tacoma’s first three charter schools that opened in August, leaving their funding in jeopardy.

...

http://www.theolympian.com/news/local/education/article34116078.html

Charter schools have been a huge progress in New Orleans.

 

[Mario Kart]

Unbelieveably horrible decision here from WA state Supreme Court:

Washington charter school law unconstitutional, Supreme Court findsOLYMPIA

The Washington Supreme Court has ruled the state’s voter-approved charter-school law unconstitutional.

The decision casts a shadow over Tacoma’s first three charter schools that opened in August, leaving their funding in jeopardy.

...

http://www.theolympian.com/news/local/education/article34116078.html

Charter schools have been a huge progress in New Orleans.

Read more here: http://www.theolympian.com/news/local/education/article34116078.html#storylink=cpy

There is much more to the "why" it may have benefited in New Orleans than some want to admit. On the other hand, to say charter schools are much better than public is giving way too much credit to charter schools. The only reason Republicans like them is because kids get similar education (not better and often worse) than public schools but the city doesn't pay those teachers so taxes go down.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Unbelieveably horrible decision here from WA state Supreme Court:

Washington charter school law unconstitutional, Supreme Court findsOLYMPIA

The Washington Supreme Court has ruled the state’s voter-approved charter-school law unconstitutional.

The decision casts a shadow over Tacoma’s first three charter schools that opened in August, leaving their funding in jeopardy.

...

http://www.theolympian.com/news/local/education/article34116078.html

Charter schools have been a huge progress in New Orleans.

Read more here: http://www.theolympian.com/news/local/education/article34116078.html#storylink=cpy

There is much more to the "why" it may have benefited in New Orleans than some want to admit. On the other hand, to say charter schools are much better than public is giving way too much credit to charter schools. The only reason Republicans like them is because kids get similar education (not better and often worse) than public schools but the city doesn't pay those teachers so taxes go down.

Whoof, no, it's not a GOP thing here (heck it's hard to find Republicans here) it's also Democratic. We have had horrible schools, extremely expensive private schools have for decades been almost the only viable alternative to get an excellent education and people became very tired of that, not to mention the endemic corruption which have been a part of the story in OPSB.

There have been exceptions here but it's been working because people now are considering several charters as alternatives to private schools. And in general our children in the city are better educated. This has been a progressive measure here and a great one.

The story in NYC is different in terms of the causes of the rise of charters but there also it has been viewed as Democratic or even liberal. The fact that they may be viewed as anti-union may be the cause for the perception you raise.

 

[Ilov80s]

Unbelieveably horrible decision here from WA state Supreme Court:

Washington charter school law unconstitutional, Supreme Court finds

OLYMPIA

The Washington Supreme Court has ruled the states voter-approved charter-school law unconstitutional.

The decision casts a shadow over Tacomas first three charter schools that opened in August, leaving their funding in jeopardy.

...

http://www.theolympian.com/news/local/education/article34116078.html

Charter schools have been a huge progress in New Orleans.

I doubt either of us are experts on the State of Washington's Constitution so we can't really judge their decision.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

No I know that, and they say it wasn't on the merits, but in my opinion they've been very beneficial here, supported by almost all stripes. I should have said that, my point was really that WA will be losing a good, helpful idea.

 

[the moops]

Most of the charter schools around here are immersion and/or specialty schools. Down the street is a german immersion, and a few blocks away is a chinese one. There is also science academy, and a performing arts one close by.

I am a huge public school backer. I do like the idea of these charter schools that offer something different for families looking for an alternative to a traditional K-12 education though. I feel they offer something important. We would consider sending our kid to one of these (they are all public and rely on a lottery system), but we got our kid into a public montessori K-6 that we really like.

 

[glvsav37]

Saints,

Can you expand a little on the pre-katrina school system? You're saying charters have improved the overall education, but how?

i'm interested b/c I live in NY where I feel there is a large push for replacing public ed with private, for-profit charter schools. Gov Cuomo and the BOE has instituted new measures of teacher evaluations which I feel is stacked against them in an attempt to break the union, dismiss a large group of teachers and remove the state obligations to pensions and other contracted benefits. They have put certain testing measures in place which I feel are unattainable and unfair based on what a few people already cited in this thread in terms of socio-economic and other external influences that affect a student's performance.

Secondly, and specifically why I'm glad someone from NO is commented here is that read a book called "The Shock Doctrine" that was about how some politicians leverage natural disasters and other catastrophes to help push through agendas or other changes while the population is still reeling from the fallout. In the book (and its been a while so its hazy exactly how it was put), it referenced some Louisiana officials being happy that Katrina happened so that they could "wash NO education clean" and start over. The author didnt go much further then to say they instituted a new charter school system and all but abolished public education.

Can you expand a little about the schools pre and post Katrina? You've made mention of high crime and corruption being influences, but was it the change in schools or the fact that Ktrina may have displaced so many people in NO that, NO is in the beginning stages of a renaissance?

BTW...NPR's This American Life podcast just did a great piece on NO 10 years after, focusing on the lower 9th and 10th ward. And while it was generally positive, they did do a segment on how, out of all of the rebuilding in NO, the 9th and 10th has been held off many of the rebuilding b/c many fear that the gov't is trying to push people out of there and recapture it for higher value real estate. IDK, if thats true, but it was a very good listen.

But back to NY, I feel that any charter schools they institute here will be run for-profit and any tax money's earmarked for public ed will be funneled into them...many run by political backers looking for an investment.

We have success academy in NYC and it is a fully lottery based enrollment school. Something I want no part of for my children.

thanks for any insight you may have.

 

[NCCommish]

No I know that, and they say it wasn't on the merits, but in my opinion they've been very beneficial here, supported by almost all stripes. I should have said that, my point was really that WA will be losing a good, helpful idea.

Beneficial?

But new data calls the supposed gains into question. Most of the class of 2014 graduating from the 100%-charter New Orleans Recovery School District scored so low on the national ACT test that they didn’t meet the minimum requirements for Louisiana’s colleges.

The district’s test scores were extremely low prior to Hurricane Katrina and the charter school conversion, but despite Jindal’s claims of “remarkable gains,” there has been only a 2 point improvement in New Orleans’ Recovery School District ACT scores since 2005. The class average is now 16.4, one of the lowest in Louisiana. There was a 0.6 decline statewide. The minimum requirement for a scholarship to a two-year Louisiana college is 17.

 

[Mario Kart]

Results? Republicans in Milwaukee/Wisconsin are claiming all sorts of things about charters and so on. The Legislature is Wisconsin is loony. Like I stated before, they simply want to have education be privatized as much as possible to continue lowering taxes. Results be damned as it has shown charters are not better unless they are crazy selective who goes there.

Then, those schools will be talked about success after success but no one wants to know that charters kick out special Education kids or problem kids... something public schools cannot do with regularity like a charter. Once they get the state funding, all bets are off.

And, as I have said before as a footnote, I voted for Walker three times but the legislature in this state is so far right looney.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Saints,

Can you expand a little on the pre-katrina school system? You're saying charters have improved the overall education, but how?

i'm interested b/c I live in NY where I feel there is a large push for replacing public ed with private, for-profit charter schools. Gov Cuomo and the BOE has instituted new measures of teacher evaluations which I feel is stacked against them in an attempt to break the union, dismiss a large group of teachers and remove the state obligations to pensions and other contracted benefits. They have put certain testing measures in place which I feel are unattainable and unfair based on what a few people already cited in this thread in terms of socio-economic and other external influences that affect a student's performance.

Secondly, and specifically why I'm glad someone from NO is commented here is that read a book called "The Shock Doctrine" that was about how some politicians leverage natural disasters and other catastrophes to help push through agendas or other changes while the population is still reeling from the fallout. In the book (and its been a while so its hazy exactly how it was put), it referenced some Louisiana officials being happy that Katrina happened so that they could "wash NO education clean" and start over. The author didnt go much further then to say they instituted a new charter school system and all but abolished public education.

Can you expand a little about the schools pre and post Katrina? You've made mention of high crime and corruption being influences, but was it the change in schools or the fact that Ktrina may have displaced so many people in NO that, NO is in the beginning stages of a renaissance?

BTW...NPR's This American Life podcast just did a great piece on NO 10 years after, focusing on the lower 9th and 10th ward. And while it was generally positive, they did do a segment on how, out of all of the rebuilding in NO, the 9th and 10th has been held off many of the rebuilding b/c many fear that the gov't is trying to push people out of there and recapture it for higher value real estate. IDK, if thats true, but it was a very good listen.

But back to NY, I feel that any charter schools they institute here will be run for-profit and any tax money's earmarked for public ed will be funneled into them...many run by political backers looking for an investment.

We have success academy in NYC and it is a fully lottery based enrollment school. Something I want no part of for my children.

thanks for any insight you may have.

Hey, it's a bit of a long story, and I have a niece who helped start up a charter in Brooklyn, lots to say so I'll come back to you on this.

 

[Glass Joe]

Charter schools in Ohio under Kasich are a disaster. And a source of a potential scandal.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

No I know that, and they say it wasn't on the merits, but in my opinion they've been very beneficial here, supported by almost all stripes. I should have said that, my point was really that WA will be losing a good, helpful idea.

Beneficial?

But new data calls the supposed gains into question. Most of the class of 2014 graduating from the 100%-charter New Orleans Recovery School District scored so low on the national ACT test that they didn’t meet the minimum requirements for Louisiana’s colleges.

The district’s test scores were extremely low prior to Hurricane Katrina and the charter school conversion, but despite Jindal’s claims of “remarkable gains,” there has been only a 2 point improvement in New Orleans’ Recovery School District ACT scores since 2005. The class average is now 16.4, one of the lowest in Louisiana. There was a 0.6 decline statewide. The minimum requirement for a scholarship to a two-year Louisiana college is 17.

I don't want to get into a link battle but I'll be glad to feed you local stories. The TP itself is somewhat split in its view. But the charters have come in two kinds, some have risen and improved the situation and some have had serious administrative concerns. You have to remember what we emerged from and where we were before the storm. Also about the RSD, those are not all charters. You need to pull a comparison of charters vs traditional public schools held by RSD and also vs our longstanding Parish School Board, OPSB. It's convoluted here, we even have two school systems. I will try to catch up on this later.

 

[NCCommish]

No I know that, and they say it wasn't on the merits, but in my opinion they've been very beneficial here, supported by almost all stripes. I should have said that, my point was really that WA will be losing a good, helpful idea.

Beneficial?

But new data calls the supposed gains into question. Most of the class of 2014 graduating from the 100%-charter New Orleans Recovery School District scored so low on the national ACT test that they didnt meet the minimum requirements for Louisianas colleges.

The districts test scores were extremely low prior to Hurricane Katrina and the charter school conversion, but despite Jindals claims of remarkable gains, there has been only a 2 point improvement in New Orleans Recovery School District ACT scores since 2005. The class average is now 16.4, one of the lowest in Louisiana. There was a 0.6 decline statewide. The minimum requirement for a scholarship to a two-year Louisiana college is 17.

I don't want to get into a link battle but I'll be glad to feed you local stories. The TP itself is somewhat split in its view. But the charters have come in two kinds, some have risen and improved the situation and some have had serious administrative concerns. You have to remember what we emerged from and where we were before the storm. Also about the RSD, those are not all charters. You need to pull a comparison of charters vs traditional public schools held by RSD and also vs our longstanding Parish School Board, OPSB. It's convoluted here, we even have two school systems. I will try to catch up on this later.

I am sure there are some anecdotal stories to be told. But the truth is even studies friendly to charters at the end of the day have to admit they really aren't some panacea. In most cases of improvement we are talking 100ths of a percent here and there.

Now I don't know what you had but it doesn't seem like what you got is much better. Someone just makes a profit now.

 

[Joe Summer]

I have two nieces that go to a charter school in Oregon. It is the worst school I have ever seen. It's an old, dilapidated rural schoolhouse that had been closed for years. None of the teachers are licensed (something that the charter school company is apparently proud of). All of the computers are donated hand-me-downs, including a computer that I gave them that was -- and still is -- running Windows 2000. They have *one* school bus. All the parents have to drive their kids to the designated bus stop in town, then the bus picks them up and takes them to the school which is 15 miles outside of town. The bus has to do this 3 times, so there are 3 different schedules for various grades.

I went to the school's history pageant, where I learned that most slaves were actually happy and that the Constitution was based on the Bible. Every other sentence contained the words "God" or "Jesus".

 

[Ilov80s]

Saints,

Can you expand a little on the pre-katrina school system? You're saying charters have improved the overall education, but how?

i'm interested b/c I live in NY where I feel there is a large push for replacing public ed with private, for-profit charter schools. Gov Cuomo and the BOE has instituted new measures of teacher evaluations which I feel is stacked against them in an attempt to break the union, dismiss a large group of teachers and remove the state obligations to pensions and other contracted benefits. They have put certain testing measures in place which I feel are unattainable and unfair based on what a few people already cited in this thread in terms of socio-economic and other external influences that affect a student's performance.

Secondly, and specifically why I'm glad someone from NO is commented here is that read a book called "The Shock Doctrine" that was about how some politicians leverage natural disasters and other catastrophes to help push through agendas or other changes while the population is still reeling from the fallout. In the book (and its been a while so its hazy exactly how it was put), it referenced some Louisiana officials being happy that Katrina happened so that they could "wash NO education clean" and start over. The author didnt go much further then to say they instituted a new charter school system and all but abolished public education.

Can you expand a little about the schools pre and post Katrina? You've made mention of high crime and corruption being influences, but was it the change in schools or the fact that Ktrina may have displaced so many people in NO that, NO is in the beginning stages of a renaissance?

BTW...NPR's This American Life podcast just did a great piece on NO 10 years after, focusing on the lower 9th and 10th ward. And while it was generally positive, they did do a segment on how, out of all of the rebuilding in NO, the 9th and 10th has been held off many of the rebuilding b/c many fear that the gov't is trying to push people out of there and recapture it for higher value real estate. IDK, if thats true, but it was a very good listen.

But back to NY, I feel that any charter schools they institute here will be run for-profit and any tax money's earmarked for public ed will be funneled into them...many run by political backers looking for an investment.

We have success academy in NYC and it is a fully lottery based enrollment school. Something I want no part of for my children.

thanks for any insight you may have.

Charter schools are public schools funded with public money ran by private groups. I'm not sure you misstated it, but just want to be clear.

 

[HellToupee]

Charters killed a lot of parochial schools all while taking tax money from public schools