Sunday Gravy
Footballguy
Sickening how awesome GB looks. Love literally looks like Rodgers clone. We're so screwed.
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***Chicago Bears Thread*** Ben Johnson hired. The Resurrection Begins! (5 Viewers)
- Thread starter flapgreen
- Start date
flapgreen
Footballguy
I want to try again until we actually get one. Green Bay hits every time and has a franchise guy for over a decade each time. Bears can't even get one. Although, I have no faith that they'll ever get it right at this point, so I really don't think it matters
Deranged Hermit
Not cool & Pissed
We are so screwed the next 5 years or so.
DocHolliday
Footballguy
Will be fun to watch GB vs Detroit for everyone else though.
Sunday Gravy
Footballguy
Great.
flapgreen
Footballguy
Same as the previous 30
Sunday Gravy
Footballguy
Jordan Love first playoff game
16-21 272 3/0 Rushing yards -1
This is how you play the position. This is how you win playoff games. And he was under pressure but he used his athleticism to buy time to get guys open, not just tucking and running. Love is not throwing to anything special either.
16-21 272 3/0 Rushing yards -1
This is how you play the position. This is how you win playoff games. And he was under pressure but he used his athleticism to buy time to get guys open, not just tucking and running. Love is not throwing to anything special either.
Sunday Gravy
Footballguy
I still don't understand why Montgomery is not on this team. Great teammate, great leader and a legit starting rb.
tickle
Footballguy
I've been a bears fan for almost 40 years. Watching that '05 run was the best even considering '86, '06. They were 11.5-1 to win the north that season. Mike Browns two pick 6's in consecutive overtimes is less likely to be duplicated than Dimmagios hit streak. When he got hurt against the Cards in '06 that cost us the superbowl as much as Bensons fumble. Picking Benson was horrible, Urlacher and Brown injured him on the second day of practice because they were "chippy" about Angelo demoting team leader Thomas jones through the draft.
It's all been about bad GMing since at least the Angelo days. Trading up for Trubisky when no one else wanted him was disgraceful. Bears are as bad as Belichick at drafting offensive players. If they draft a qb I have no faith that they will be able to develop him, regardless of whatever most likely garbage hire they make at OC. I hope they prove me wrong. Personally, I'd like to see them keep fields, get as much as they can for the 1, try to build up the o-line as much as possible. Watching the Saints all year because I had Kamara, Olave, and eventually Carr, it was easy to see how having a trash o-line is devestating to an offense. Lions and Packers o-lines have looked tremendous. If we can't improve there, I can't see anything else mattering.
It's all been about bad GMing since at least the Angelo days. Trading up for Trubisky when no one else wanted him was disgraceful. Bears are as bad as Belichick at drafting offensive players. If they draft a qb I have no faith that they will be able to develop him, regardless of whatever most likely garbage hire they make at OC. I hope they prove me wrong. Personally, I'd like to see them keep fields, get as much as they can for the 1, try to build up the o-line as much as possible. Watching the Saints all year because I had Kamara, Olave, and eventually Carr, it was easy to see how having a trash o-line is devestating to an offense. Lions and Packers o-lines have looked tremendous. If we can't improve there, I can't see anything else mattering.
Max Power
Footballguy
Hurts without his stud WR and with a poor OC is basically JF.
InDitkaWeTrust
Footballguy
Adding Greg Roman to the OC interviewee list. Greg was formerly the OC for the Baltimore Ravens who's credited with unleashing Lamar's potential. Hiring him would pretty much point to keeping Fields.
Max Power
Footballguy
Im interested in Roman but the knock on him was that he never got it done in the playoffs. Still a huge step up over Getsy who couldn't get it down against one of the easiest schedules in the NFL.
Max Power
Footballguy
To me the most annoying part of Wildcard weekend was watching all of the late round WRs taken by other teams actually be good and have YAC. I keep wanting to see the best in Tyler Scott, but he just isn't that good.
Poles' WR evaluation is the scariest part of his GM resume.
Poles' WR evaluation is the scariest part of his GM resume.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
Kind of shocked everyone stays put in Chicago
I expected them to be one of the names we hear linked to Harbaugh
I'll wait to see how things unfold over the coming weeks, maybe they don't want to tip their hand on a new Head Coach until more teams are eliminated
Surprised Eberflus if that's how it's spelled, didn't see him keeping his job
Do the fans ever get in ear shot of the GM or owner and tell them point blank how much they are screwing this up?
-This coming from a guy who roots for a team where the owner was penalized and forfeited our 1st and 3rd Rd picks, still have to absorb the 3rd this Draft
So there are other owners that do things worse but I can say Ross was at least trying to tank ad ultimately get better, this Bears organization lives in their own world
That's the optics for an avg NFL fan that doesn't watch many Bears games
I expected them to be one of the names we hear linked to Harbaugh
I'll wait to see how things unfold over the coming weeks, maybe they don't want to tip their hand on a new Head Coach until more teams are eliminated
Surprised Eberflus if that's how it's spelled, didn't see him keeping his job
Do the fans ever get in ear shot of the GM or owner and tell them point blank how much they are screwing this up?
-This coming from a guy who roots for a team where the owner was penalized and forfeited our 1st and 3rd Rd picks, still have to absorb the 3rd this Draft
So there are other owners that do things worse but I can say Ross was at least trying to tank ad ultimately get better, this Bears organization lives in their own world
That's the optics for an avg NFL fan that doesn't watch many Bears games
Max Power
Footballguy
The OC is gone and that is a major improvement in itself. I saw an advanced analytics chart on OC playcalling and he was bottom 5 in the NFL.
I think the Harbaugh piece comes down to personnel control and personality. Management probably wasn't excited about either. Kevin Warren was just brought in this season as Team President to try to right the ship. It's been a year now and he has said he wanted to observe for a while before making major changes. My guess is he doesn't care for Harbaugh and wanted to go his way.
Flus is kind of bozo at the podium and way too conservative. The players like him and he did turn the worst D in the NFL into a top 8 unit after the Sweat trade. I think he is a very good defensive coach. I can live with giving him another year. Hopefully he learned some things about being a HC in this league. His record stinks, but he came into a team that just got rid of its best offensive and defensive player that offseason. The roster was further gutted during the year.
Good or bad, the Bears are in a pretty unique spot right now. If it doesn't work out with this bunch it will only be another couple years until we know and then we try again...
Uruk-Hai
Footballguy
Roman's problem in Baltimore was that he never adjusted as the players changed or grew. Also, his play calls in the red zone were bewildering at times. But, people can learn & change - hopefully he does, too. I think he's a smart guy - he was just too stubborn to adapt.
tickle
Footballguy
this article grades the o-line play from last season; according to them it looks like center is the biggest position to upgrade. Looking at what happened to the Dolphins offense after Williams went down for the season, I'd like to see the Bears pay up for one of the top guys in free agency and draft another interior lineman with upside. Of course, if we screw up the offensive coordinator hire which I fully expect to happen, it won't matter. I'm thinking having an offensive head coach is the way forward in this league - look at Andy Reid. Belichick was the exception since Brady became the defacto OC. If an OC has success they get a head coaching gig and the offense they leave loses continuity - Daboll is an example, Texans and Lions next year will be interesting to watch. Bears have never had that problem; Nagy proved to be Reids' version of Matt Patricia.
https://ontapsportsnet.com/bears/chicago-bears-offensive-line-rankings-grades-2023-season
here are the top free agent centers available, according to pff
https://ontapsportsnet.com/bears/chicago-bears-offensive-line-rankings-grades-2023-season
here are the top free agent centers available, according to pff
CENTER
- Connor Williams, Miami Dolphins
- Andre James, Las Vegas Raiders
- Lloyd Cushenberry, Denver Broncos
- Tyler Biadasz, Dallas Cowboys
- Coleman Shelton, Los Angeles Rams
- Evan Brown, Seattle Seahawks
- Connor McGovern, New York Jets
- Trystan Colon, Arizona Cardinals
- Sam Mustipher, Baltimore Ravens
- Ryan Jensen, Tampa Bay Buccaneers
InDitkaWeTrust
Footballguy
Adding Thomas Brown, former OC for CAR and RB coach for MIA to the OC interviewee list.
Shane Waldon, former OC SEA
Klint Kubiak, Passing Game Coordinator SF
Liam Coen, OC Kentucky former OC LA Rams
Greg Olson, Offense Assistant SEA
Greg Roman, Former OC for BAL
Thomas Brown, Former OC for CAR, RB Coach MIA
Seems like a whole lot of mid to me.
Shane Waldon, former OC SEA
Klint Kubiak, Passing Game Coordinator SF
Liam Coen, OC Kentucky former OC LA Rams
Greg Olson, Offense Assistant SEA
Greg Roman, Former OC for BAL
Thomas Brown, Former OC for CAR, RB Coach MIA
Seems like a whole lot of mid to me.
InDitkaWeTrust
Footballguy
I'm hesitant to add a FA center after the Cody Whitehair / Lucas Patrick experiment. That said, if the Bears can get a vet like James and draft a 3rd/4th round C who can be a rotational piece at the IOL spots, I'd call it a win.
Sunday Gravy
Footballguy
What the hell did they see from the Carolina offense that made them want to interview the coordinator???
rockaction
Footballguy
Gonna pound the football, I guess. Carolina had really good success in their running game the year before last and Miami was devastating at RB this year.
Problem is that Herbert, Roschon, and D'Onta (free agent) aren't going to get it done alone. Herbert needs a bit more durability, Johnson needs more speed, and Foreman is gone. Better re-stock. RB is an easy position to do that at if you care enough.
InDitkaWeTrust
Footballguy
With either Fields or a rookie, the Beras are going to have to lean on the run quite a bit.
FairWarning
Footballguy
Easy to run the ball when you are playing to keep the game close. The Bears led the league in rushing in 2022 and what did that get them? The Bears don’t understand that you pass to score and run to protect the lead.
Max Power
Footballguy
Im a little more excited about Waldron after watching some analysis on him. He probably isn't available if Carrol doesn't get fired, so the Bears job is only a lateral move, but he doesn't have a job right now.
Advanced analytics put his playcalling just outside of the top 10, but most of the top names were already HCs or high level OCs like Ben Johnson. Seattle also has unique play designs which means he not only a play caller, but a play creator and would likely get a lot of mismatched talent.
Zac Robinson interviewing today. Big fan of his, and he had a lot to do with Stafford's resurgence and Mayfield's late 2022 play. He could be another Bobby Slowik, out of that Shanahan/McVay tree.
I think Robinson is more interesting than any of the guys on this list.
InDitkaWeTrust
Footballguy
Adding Zac Robinson QBs coach, LAR and Marcus Brady, Sr Assistant PHI
InDitkaWeTrust
Footballguy
Robinson has zero play calling experience. That is concerning to me.
InDitkaWeTrust
Footballguy
My take on the OC search:
If we keep Fields, I want Greg Roman. He has molded Lamar into a top 5 NFL QB. I suspect his year off has helped with some of the stubbornness he had with run focus.
If we draft Caleb, I want Waldron. He's done an amazing job with game planning for Geno's strengths and weaknesses. If we could get Olson in as the QB coach, that's a solid package for a new QB.
If we keep Fields, I want Greg Roman. He has molded Lamar into a top 5 NFL QB. I suspect his year off has helped with some of the stubbornness he had with run focus.
If we draft Caleb, I want Waldron. He's done an amazing job with game planning for Geno's strengths and weaknesses. If we could get Olson in as the QB coach, that's a solid package for a new QB.
Max Power
Footballguy
I can get on board with either.
Although the more I look at and learn about Williams (the Talent) the more impressed I am. There may be some character concerns, but nothing that strikes me as a major reg flag. As much as I love JF, I think Caleb is the right choice.
If the Bears do trade 1.01 its going to be a package much better than what they got from Carolina. Williams and Young aren't close to the same level prospect.
I'm not sure that is really a drawback. I'd rather have someone with no experience that learned from an elite play caller, than someone who has experience, but that experience wasn't good.
I'll agree that Roman is a solid option if they stick with Fields. In addition, Roman has also tended to get the best out of OLs as well.
InDitkaWeTrust
Footballguy
Luke Getsy, who worked under Matt LaFluer, was also an 'up and comer' with zero play calling experience. It was painfully obvious that his scripted calls were pretty good and that his in game calls and adjustments were basically deer in the headlights looks. I'm not sure I'd want to take that chance again., especially with a rookie QB.
Sunday Gravy
Footballguy
Kliff Kingsbury in today. I like this. He's had tremendous success running offenses. And his work with Caleb would signal we're going to make the right call at qb.
InDitkaWeTrust
Footballguy
Adding Kliff Kingsbury
Shane Waldon, former OC SEA
Klint Kubiak, Passing Game Coordinator SF
Liam Coen, OC Kentucky former OC LA Rams
Greg Olson, Offense Assistant SEA
Greg Roman, Former OC for BAL
Thomas Brown, Former OC for CAR, RB Coach MIAZ
Zac Robinson, QB Coach LAR
Marcus Brady, Sr Asst PHI
Kliff Kingsbury, OC USC (Former HC ARI)
Shane Waldon, former OC SEA
Klint Kubiak, Passing Game Coordinator SF
Liam Coen, OC Kentucky former OC LA Rams
Greg Olson, Offense Assistant SEA
Greg Roman, Former OC for BAL
Thomas Brown, Former OC for CAR, RB Coach MIAZ
Zac Robinson, QB Coach LAR
Marcus Brady, Sr Asst PHI
Kliff Kingsbury, OC USC (Former HC ARI)
I really like this development. I imagine that, were he hired, that would be a strong indicator of who they will draft at #1.
I don't really like the logic of this guy didn't work out, so someone else with a mildly similar resume won't. Ben Johnson and Bobby Slowik never called plays before 2022 and 2023 respectively, and they are likely both getting HC jobs this offseason.
Not sure how I'd feel about that one. In some ways I feel like he did a horrible job with Kyler Murray. I found it interesting that all the locker room or maturity issues that Kyler was said to have, disappeared when Kingsbury did. On the other hand its possible Kingsbury just isn't cut out to be a HC, and an OC role is more his speed.
ETA: I do wonder if Kingsbury isn't really an OC interview, so much as a Caleb Williams reference, with a token interview.
ericttspikes
Footballguy
Any concern about Williams average time to throw being 3.2 seconds? Will that fly in the NFL? Seems like that is the exact same problem that Fields has now, and I'd argue that Fields is a better runner.
Without a doubt Fields is a better runner. I don't think it is very close. When I watch the footage of williams I DO see a guy who holds the ball too long but I am hopeful that he can adjust. At USC I think he was burdened with the idea that he had to carry the team on every play and just refused to give up. In general, he made that style work in college. His sack rate (2.6 per game) was better than Drake Maye's (2.9), Shedeur Sanders' (4.7, worst in college football), but also worse than Jayden Daniels' (1.8). The concern I have with Justin Fields is not necessarily holding the ball, sometimes that's how the big play happens (see Mahomes), it is passing on good plays because he doesn't process fast enough or just isn't comfortable throwing timing routes into tight coverage. He isn't good at pulling the trigger on a slant, for instance. I don't see that same issue (chronic hesitation) with Williams.
Sunday Gravy
Footballguy
Remember Kingsbury also coached Mahomes in college. I'm thinking right now he might be my favorite.
Deranged Hermit
Not cool & Pissed
Hmm, Kliff Kingsbury, huh? Wonder why they'd bring him in?
Max Power
Footballguy
A couple points I've heard on this topic (am I'm forgetting who said it) were that the majority of Williams' throws were less than 3 seconds. He was good at being on time when he had to be.
The other factor making that number look worse than it really is was that USC had a very poor interior OL this year. Williams was constantly getting pressure up the middle with a 4 man rush. This would cause him to have to roll out and try to find an open receiver in max coverage, ultimately adding to his time to throw number.
massraider
Footballguy
That is certainly interesting.Hmm, Kliff Kingsbury, huh? Wonder why they'd bring him in?
I was just reading someone on Twitter, kind of bad-mouthing the USC offense. Like it was mainly just let Caleb play hero ball.
Deranged Hermit
Not cool & Pissed
I'm not sure it was 'hero ball' as much as it was chuck and duck. You think Chicago's interior o-line was bad later in the year, USC was worse.That is certainly interesting.Hmm, Kliff Kingsbury, huh? Wonder why they'd bring him in?
I was just reading someone on Twitter, kind of bad-mouthing the USC offense. Like it was mainly just let Caleb play hero ball.
I still say that a Williams/Nabers or Odunze stack is the way to go in the first round. I could be swayed away from that with a ridiculous trade offer but I love potential with those players. We could use FA to plug holes at Center and Guard. Depth will still be a problem, but Rome wasn't built in a day.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Gonna be fun to see Fields dealt to Atlanta where he'll become the next Hurts, while CHI brings in Cliff (who drafts Caleb) and ruins him behind a terrible OL.
(I'm a bit skeptical BB will want Fields if he becomes the HC though)
(I'm a bit skeptical BB will want Fields if he becomes the HC though)
Sunday Gravy
Footballguy
Bears don't have a terrible OL. And they have money and picks to sure up the weak spots.Gonna be fun to see Fields dealt to Atlanta where he'll become the next Hurts, while CHI brings in Cliff (who drafts Caleb) and ruins him behind a terrible OL.
(I'm a bit skeptical BB will want Fields if he becomes the HC though)
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
It’s not a great OL. Especially not pass pro.
ETA: FBG has them 22nd and PFF has them
21st.
Terrible offensive line.
