flapgreen
Footballguy
Most Bears fans are so emotionally damaged that even making huge moves to attempt to get better makes them uncomfortable. They prefer the status quo of losing.
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***Chicago Bears Thread*** Ben Johnson hired. The Resurrection Begins! (8 Viewers)
- Thread starter flapgreen
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Max Power
Footballguy
Which upcoming FA WRs would fit the best in Chicago?
Evans would be an Ideal fit on the other side of Moore, but signing him probably means taking on a year or two at the end where he may no longer being good.
Ridley is interesting. I think he'd be a good WR2. How much he wants would sway my opinion.
Chark, Reynolds, or Noah Brown might interest me in the WR4 role, but it again goes to what the market looks like.
The #9 overall is very much in play for a WR. I think Nabers is off the board by then making Odunze the pick. If Odunze is gone I think Bears have to look D there or trade back.
I personally like Pittman more than Higgins and would support offering a massive contract to him.
Evans would be an Ideal fit on the other side of Moore, but signing him probably means taking on a year or two at the end where he may no longer being good.
Ridley is interesting. I think he'd be a good WR2. How much he wants would sway my opinion.
Chark, Reynolds, or Noah Brown might interest me in the WR4 role, but it again goes to what the market looks like.
The #9 overall is very much in play for a WR. I think Nabers is off the board by then making Odunze the pick. If Odunze is gone I think Bears have to look D there or trade back.
Sunday Gravy
Footballguy
Don't like Kliff? He's always had a good offense and worked with some very good qbs. I think my favorite part of him being hired would be that it would be a sure sign Fields is gone.
Do you listen to Hoge and Jahns?
flapgreen
Footballguy
Not at all. Was not a fan of the USC offense last season.
I like Hoge and Jahns but haven't followed them in quite a while. Since I don't live in the Chicago area, I don't get the local stuff as much like most of the guys in here.
Deranged Hermit
Not cool & Pissed
I don't think Higgins will even hit the market, but he will make bank if he does. There's only so much you can help the team (looking at you o-line) if you break the bank with him.
Pittman and Evans are the next tier, but both will go for more than I'm willing to pay, especially if Chicago is planning a wr at 9.
Brown I think will be much more reasonably priced but health is always a concern. I like Curtis Samuel as well.
Sunday Gravy
Footballguy
I listen to their podcast and they are hot for Waldron.
flapgreen
Footballguy
Perfect. Then, I feel comfortable thinking the same. They're easily my favorite Bears guys and know their stuff. Used to follow them on Twitter but lost track of most of the Bears people over the last couple of years. Just lost interest in the team in general with the continued disappointment.
Max Power
Footballguy
Fixing the offense is going to be tough over one offseason. Bears need WRs though. After those first several options the list gets underwhelming quick. Heck the publication I pulled that list from thinks Mooney is still a decent WR option. - Just looked and its from Nov.
I think the two biggest needs for the team this offseason are WR and DE. Both premium positions where the top level guys are going to set the market. I think the Bears need to swing big at both positions in Free Agency and then use the #9 pick to address which spot they didn't through FA.
I don't think Josh Allen or Brian Burns make it to FA. Hunter is on their level but older. Next couple options are Bryce Huff and Chase Young.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
the AZ Cards were a disaster too. His players didn’t seem to like him either.
Sunday Gravy
Footballguy
He was only there one season and he wasn't the OC. Wasn't his offense and he didn't call plays.
Sunday Gravy
Footballguy
Definitely wouldn't want him as head coach.
InDitkaWeTrust
Footballguy
Seems like Poles is running a master class in subterfuge. He's brought in guys that would be a great fit for Fields and guys who'd be a great fit for Williams/a rookie. If he's able to pull off a high yield trade for either Fields or the #1 before hiring the OC, I will be impressed.
Balco
Footballguy
I just can’t see Poles trading Fields and going with a rookie even if it’s more than likely the right choice (obviously if they grade Caleb or whoever as a franchise qb.) I can’t see them trading Fields and taking a qb 1. Because it likely means Poles and Eberfluss are goners because there will be growing pains the first year and they can’t afford to have another poor season.
Max Power
Footballguy
This was kind of what local media was pointing to after Kevin Warren's presser. He said something along the lines of how important stability is when the team is ready to take a big step forward. He was talking about Flus but people read into it that it means keeping Fields as well.
I might be in the minority here, but I don't think Caleb is a step backwards year one. As "off-script" as he tends to go, he only threw 10 INTs in two years at USC with close to 900 passing attempts. I don't know what his sack/fumble rate is, but it can't be worse than Fields.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
The NFL is a different animal. Some players make the leap. Some don’t.
There’s a legitimate possibility that going from Fields to Caleb will be a disaster.
osubuckeyeman
Footballguy
He had a lot of help and the Cards were not bad for a bit. I just think people figured him out and he could not adapt.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
I agree with that assessment. He was kind of a 1-trick pony, and it wasn't a great trick.
Now, some of that might have been being limited by his QB. Or it might just be that his schtick don't work in the NFL like it does in college. Wouldn't be the 1st time (cough, Chip Kelly, cough)
Max Power
Footballguy
I agree that it could be a disaster, I just don't think it will. Rookies are going to rookie, but I think he is smart enough with the ball and should have enough talent around him that he won't fail.
I really like what I saw with Fields over his last two months, but still my biggest concern with him is turnovers.
could be a disaster i suppose, but how likely is that really, i get that Caleb had some ups and downs this year and i don't watch much college football so only going off what i read but most everything i've read is that he's the strongest QB prospect in a while maybe since Lawrence (granted he hasn't met expectations)? i'm not an expert here so others can feel free to chime in if that's off. but point is think you have to take your shot at that. if doesn't work out well that's the way it goes. but if he becomes Mahomes you won't be able to live with yourself. Is there a FOMO element there maybe but i'm not sure Bears can pass on that. And barring some absurd trade i don't think they will.
Sunday Gravy
Footballguy
What did you see over his last two months? Are you serious? You realize he got shut out by 2 mediocre defenses in those last two months? Went the entire second half against an AWFUL AZ team without scoring. So basically you liked the Atl game?
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Worth noting there were a lot of drops in those games. I watched them - Fields played outstanding football. They didn’t lose because of Fields.
You seem hell bent on this narrative.
It would be interesting to reunite Young and Sweat. I think much higher of Eberflus as a defensive play caller than I do of Jack Del Rio.
Personally, I'd be surprised if Hunter hit FA. That'd leave the Vikings with next to nothing in the pass rusher department. I'm expecting Minnesota to basically run it back with Cousins/Hunter, and hope for better health team wide.
Max Power
Footballguy
His ball security was much better which I think is his biggest flaw as a QB.
Getsy was the biggest reason the offense stunk. We had sub-par play from the OL, RBs and any WR not named Moore. His playcalling against the Vikings was so bad the announcers were laughing on air about it.
When they reviewed the Cleveland game there were 7 missed blocks/assignments by the RBs and Wrs that game. That's bad football and shouldn't land on JF. That game would have been a W as well if Mooney could catch or the D doesn't give up 200 passing yards to Flacco in the 4th.
It's not like we're going into 24 saying QB is the only spot that needs improvement. This Bears team still has a lot of major holes.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
I counted at least 5 wide open drops, 3 of which were sure fire TDs on perfectly placed balls.
Mooney should switch to CB. He has oven mitts for hands.
Max Power
Footballguy
The Vikings also have to work in Justin Jefferson's extension. I don't think they can sign all three at market rate without mortgaging the future.
Hunter's one year deal came with clause that they can't Franchise him, so the Vikes have no leverage in that negotiation.
Max Power
Footballguy
Not sure I've ever soured on a WR so fast. And Getsy used him as a front blocker on WR screens and he was constantly blown up in that role.
He had a real bad year.
Deranged Hermit
Not cool & Pissed
I think I read somewhere that Hunter had a clause in his contract that said he couldn't be franchised, so I guess it depends on how much the Vikings can spend. It'll be tough to get him and Cousins.
*edit* Max was quicker than me.
Jefferson's extension could easily lower his 2024 cap number. I don't see any reason they can't keep all 3. I also doubt Cousins is some monster contract coming off an Achilles in his mid 30s.
Have you considered that you might be hell-bent the other way? I get that Fields had tremendous fantasy success in limited portions of the last two years, but I don't see much data to support that he is a good passer. I can (and have) fallen in love with individual plays that Fields has made, but when I watch an entire game I see many, many plays that he misses. To take this out of the world of anecdotes, to balance the visceral impact of receiver drops and amazing outlier plays, I like to rely on the closest thing we have to objective data. By passinng DVOA he ranks 35th, between josh dobbs and mac jones (DVOA by Position: Passing, Rushing, and Receiving (QB, RB, WR, TE) (ftnfantasy.com). PFF ranks him as the 25th passer, between kyler murray and deshaun watson (NFL QB Position Grades | PFF). That is better, but still not great. The coaching staff might be inept, but they know by now that he can't operate in structure. I think that the beginning of the year, when fields complained about coaching, was a result of the coaches trying to see if he could operate the offense without relying on improvising. He can't. I would definitely accept a wager that Fields will be a starting QB on opening day 2026. While he could be a difference maker out of structure for a little while longer, I doubt that, after his third year, he becomes a great passer. It breaks my heart, because I was so excited about him, but I see him as a backup with upside. That said, if the Bears keep Fields and load up on talent around him, I'll definitely tune in.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Not at all. I’ve been pretty fair in my evaluation of Fields all season.
Anyone saying he’s inaccurate or hasn’t shown improvement is simply telling me they aren’t actually watching him play and are simply looking at box scores.
God question though. Next!
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Statements like this, for example.
He showed that he could be a great passer. He did it this year.
Look at DJM’s numbers, for example.
But wide open drops don’t show up in the box score. Time and time again, Fields stayed on script, made a check-down, and hit his man. But a ball has to be caught for it to show up positively in the box score.
I didn't mention box scores at all. I cited analytic assessments based on a player's performance. PFF takes things like dropped balls out of the equation and grades a QB based on the throws. Every play gets a grade, including the non-spectacular ones that you seem to miss. These assessments primarily exist to remove the ambiguity of box scores. They are not perfect, but they are definitely valuable. Your assertion that anyone who disagrees with you isn't watching the game seems incredibly arrogant. My sunday-ticket bill and shell-shocked family (lots of cursing on sundays) would state otherwise. I've watched 99% of Bears snaps (when I wasn't on an active duty deployment) since 1984. It must be nice to have the market entirely cornered on quarterback evaluation, you should start a youtube channel to compete with JT Osullivan or Chase Daniel. Most of the posters on this board seem to get that Fields has major flaws, irrespective of the quality of coaching. If you feel so strongly that you are qualified to call someone " hell-bent on a narrative", but are somehow above the same sort of criticism, why not accept my wager? It can just be a gentlemen's bet, but I don't think Fields is a day-one starter in 2026.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Because I am confident enough in my observations that I don’t need to make dumb internet bets
You can have your opinions and I can have mine - challenging me to a bet just sounds like you’re not confident enough in defending your opinions.
You’re also betting me something I’m not arguing, which is a straw-man.
I don't think it is a straw man. Ultimately, we are debating "is he good enough or not". The proof of that will eventually be whether or not he is a starter in this league; everyone runs out of leeway eventually. To that end, the wager about whether he starts in 2026 would eliminate the need to continue the back and forth. I'm open to other suggestions for a wager, but the desire to wager is not an act of low confidence, typically it indicates overconfidence. When 2 people reach an impasse, there is nothing left to do but to call your shot and let things play out. If you won't even consider that you might be too certain that Fields is a great passer, in the face of objective analysis (PFF grade, DVOA), then there is no point to further discussion, thus the wager. Because I don't want to be a hypocrite, I'm open to evidence that I've misjudged his passing prowess. I have consistently offered specific criticism (inability to play in structure, execute a timing-based passing offense, throw to spots, etc) and would love to hear your point of view on why those criticisms are unfounded. Ironically, pointing to DJ Moore's great year as an indication that Fields is a great passer makes me think that you are only watching the box score. DJ Moore is an excellent receiver and I believe he made up for some of Fields' mistakes, more than he hurt Fields with his drops. To me that was evident from watching and supported by their respective PFF grades. DJ Moore is the 9th highest-graded receiver (in receiving, 10th overall) out of 128 receivers graded, Justin Fields is the 25th highest-graded quarterback (in passing, 21st overall) out of 41 quarterbacks graded.
Max Power
Footballguy
Jaylon is absolutely right.Jaylon Johnson speaks regarding Justin Fields
Bears need better coaching and better playmakers.
JF has lacked stability, coaching and playmakers since coming into the league.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
I don’t have the bandwidth to read these novels.
I’m happy for you though.
Or sorry that happened.
InDitkaWeTrust
Footballguy
This is the sentiment of most of the Bears current and past players as well as some vocal defenders from other teams. I've never seen teammates and players from other teams go to bat for a QB like they have for Fields. It's like the guys that play with AND against him know something that the talking heads don't.Jaylon is absolutely right.Jaylon Johnson speaks regarding Justin Fields
Bears need better coaching and better playmakers.
JF has lacked stability, coaching and playmakers since coming into the league.
Sunday Gravy
Footballguy
You haven't been remotely fair at all. Your evaluation is always the same. He was great and everything around him made him look bad.
That post was dead on. He's a tremendous athlete that cannot work in a structured offense. He had zero improvement from year 2 to 3. The evaluation is over. He is what he is. A losing qb that isn't capable of elevating players around him.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
That’s. It remotely true.
You trash Fields literally every post. That’s 100% true.
We can agree to disagree. That’s probably for the best.
Max Power
Footballguy
Saying there was zero improvement from year 2 to 3 is just flat out incorrect. It's absurd to actually think that.
What players was he supposed to elevate? Moore and Kmet had their best years as pros. Heck he did more with Chase Claypool in 2 weeks than the Dolphins could in 13.
Mooney, Herbert and the OL regression isn't on JF.
It's fine to not like JF and want an upgrade, but when your evaluation isn't honest and lacks nuance people see through it.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
They also argued when I said their 22nd ranked OL was trash, saying they were good, so….
Yeah. Anything to blame Fields I guess.
1) I challenge anyone to find a post where I argued about the state of the bears o line. That unit has definitely improved but Patrick and whitehair didn’t belong on the field this year. Total disaster at center.They also argued when I said their 22nd ranked OL was trash, saying they were good, so….
Yeah. Anything to blame Fields I guess.
2) Yes fields has improved since last year (as a passer, not a runner), but not enough. That’s the point. If this were his rookie year, I’d be all for keeping him at a low cost. If they keep him for another year I won’t complain, so long as they draft someone to replace him eventually. What can’t happen, is committing to him without a succession plan. He’s good enough to keep them out of the top 10 draft picks, maybe even while making 50 million. The bears need to be proactive to avoid the purgatory of mediocrity. They gave themselves this opportunity to draft any qb they want, they should take it.
Sorry - I get what you’re saying about the length of my message. Definitely tome-ish, but in 10 fewer years you have posted more than 53 thousand more posts than me. That’s some serious bandwidth.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Ok, putting you on ignore now.
I was at work when I posted that, it since you lack a sense of humor, you’re absolutely not worth my time.
Sunday Gravy
Footballguy
He's 10-28 as a starter. He's thrown for over 300 yards in a game once. Superstar qbs don't need every facet of the offense to be perfect for them to look like star qbs. I'll stand by my zero improvement as a passer comment. He looked like the same confused mess in the pocket in year 3 as he did in year 2. He made the same poor decisions and the same inaccurate throws. I appreciate how great a guy/teammate he is and understand his guys going to bat for him. Means nothing. They're emotionally invested in him. I think some posters that don't watch much Bears football are as well.
