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***Chicago Bears Thread*** Ben Johnson hired. The Resurrection Begins! (19 Viewers)
- Thread starter flapgreen
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Interseptopus
Footballguy
Yes. This is where the confusion is then. I was referring to your original quote where you said he took over for Langford. I was thinking it was Howard there. He is a special player
Hawkeye21
Footballguy
That makes a lot more sense. I meant Langford filled in for Forte.
Yes. This is where the confusion is then. I was referring to your original quote where you said he took over for Langford. I was thinking it was Howard there. He is a special player
Interseptopus
Footballguy
I know this isn't my team, so my handle on the pulse might be completely wrong but I feel like Chicago is primed big for the following scenario:
Build the defense, OL and surrounding cast last year and this year. Don't draft a QB, go with Glennon for 17. See what he does. Maybe he turns into a really good QB (similarly how Drew Brees kind of took off after he went to NO). Then you haven't wasted a pick on a QB in 17. If Glennon doesn't do well, next year's draft class is excellent at QB so you can grab one there and groom him while Glennon is at least serviceable. By the time your 2018 QB gets in there is a very good surrounding cast.
IMO This is how it should be done and I see Chicago making some good moves to ensure that. Getting rid of some veterans that don't factor into that plan or might hamstring you later on with salary cap when you want to make that move. I think there is something to work with here. It'll be a rough 2017. Mostly because much of the division is making moves to get much better now rather than in a rebuilding situation.
Build the defense, OL and surrounding cast last year and this year. Don't draft a QB, go with Glennon for 17. See what he does. Maybe he turns into a really good QB (similarly how Drew Brees kind of took off after he went to NO). Then you haven't wasted a pick on a QB in 17. If Glennon doesn't do well, next year's draft class is excellent at QB so you can grab one there and groom him while Glennon is at least serviceable. By the time your 2018 QB gets in there is a very good surrounding cast.
IMO This is how it should be done and I see Chicago making some good moves to ensure that. Getting rid of some veterans that don't factor into that plan or might hamstring you later on with salary cap when you want to make that move. I think there is something to work with here. It'll be a rough 2017. Mostly because much of the division is making moves to get much better now rather than in a rebuilding situation.
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Hawkeye21
Footballguy
This strategy has been mentioned before and it's not a bad one. It has one major flaw though, will the Bears have this high of a draft pick again next year? The Bears had a bad team with a lot of injuries last year and ended up with the 3rd overall pick. I don't foresee that happening again and most likely will be drafting outside of the top 10. Maybe the 8th overall pick at the most. Without having a high draft pick how do they draft that top QB in 2018 without trading up?
Gustavo Fring
Footballguy
I think you either have to take a QB at 3 this year, or trade back in the first and try to get another QB desperate team to overpay to move up that high.
flapgreen
Footballguy
Im not sure what's going on up top. Sounds like a mess. Usual Bears stuff. Alshon wanted out. Rumors some players turning down Bears offers for more money. Who knows what to believe, but where there's smoke, there's usually fire. Would be nice if the team could exist without all of the drama like a lot of other teams. Fans are onto this nonsense now. Smh
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rschroeder1
Footballguy
IMO, the biggest problem right now is the lack of organizational direction at the top. As others have noted, Pace is having success on the personnel side, at least in the draft. It's not hard to see the beginnings of a foundation being laid.
The problem, to me, remains the fact that it's still hard to define what this team's over-arching strategy is. For example, the fact that Fox is still around as the head coach speaks volumes. It makes absolutely no sense to have a head coach coaching for his job, which all reports seem to indicate for 2017, when the team is in full-blown rebuild mode, and more damningly, QB tryout mode.
If you accept that Glennon isn't the long term answer (and I don't think he is, though I don't mind the signing at all), where is this team headed? Fire Fox after what will surely be a lost season this year? I would be happy to see Pace consolidate power, but will the McCaskeys have enough patience to let Pace fully execute his rebuild plans? Or will they fire Pace in a couple years, bring in a new GM saddled to the new coach, have to wait to fire the coach, and keep the circus right on rolling?
The problem, to me, remains the fact that it's still hard to define what this team's over-arching strategy is. For example, the fact that Fox is still around as the head coach speaks volumes. It makes absolutely no sense to have a head coach coaching for his job, which all reports seem to indicate for 2017, when the team is in full-blown rebuild mode, and more damningly, QB tryout mode.
If you accept that Glennon isn't the long term answer (and I don't think he is, though I don't mind the signing at all), where is this team headed? Fire Fox after what will surely be a lost season this year? I would be happy to see Pace consolidate power, but will the McCaskeys have enough patience to let Pace fully execute his rebuild plans? Or will they fire Pace in a couple years, bring in a new GM saddled to the new coach, have to wait to fire the coach, and keep the circus right on rolling?
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Hawkeye21
Footballguy
I guess they just roll that over to next year then unless some other big players come up.
flapgreen
Footballguy
The cap is confusing. They'll figure out a way to spend what they need to get spent, but it didn't have to be that way. Could've signed Wagner easily and solidified the line. Wasn't a bad deal at all. We had the space. Could've front loaded it. Pace blew it there more than anywhere. Draft is deep at cb and safety. Not at tackle. Perfect opportunity to get that guy. Now stuck with instability at both tackle spots again for the 20th straight year going into the draft. So obvious to the most novice person. I'll never understand it.
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KCitons
Footballguy
Two thoughts:
This may be thinking like a fake football coach, but would it be possible to trade #3 for a 2018 first and a 2017 second or third? This would position them for a QB next year. (depending on the trade partner)
Could the Bears trade the #3 on draft day for Jimmy G, if the QB they want is taken 1 or 2?
This may be thinking like a fake football coach, but would it be possible to trade #3 for a 2018 first and a 2017 second or third? This would position them for a QB next year. (depending on the trade partner)
Could the Bears trade the #3 on draft day for Jimmy G, if the QB they want is taken 1 or 2?
Back to draft and FA talk:
What are the prevailing thoughts on Pat Mahomes? I'm thinking take the best possible defensive player in Round 1 and Mahomes in the 2nd. Sounds like he may be as good a prospect as any other QB that will likely go in the 1st round, presenting decent value in the 2nd. If Mahomes goes in round 1, that probably means Kizer becomes available and I would be cool with that as well....
Also, cut loose Rueben Randle and Eddie Royal. Bring in Michael Floyd as a big, red zone WR. Get over the DUI - other players have been forgiven for a lot worse - and take a chance on the talent he has shown at times.
What are the prevailing thoughts on Pat Mahomes? I'm thinking take the best possible defensive player in Round 1 and Mahomes in the 2nd. Sounds like he may be as good a prospect as any other QB that will likely go in the 1st round, presenting decent value in the 2nd. If Mahomes goes in round 1, that probably means Kizer becomes available and I would be cool with that as well....
Also, cut loose Rueben Randle and Eddie Royal. Bring in Michael Floyd as a big, red zone WR. Get over the DUI - other players have been forgiven for a lot worse - and take a chance on the talent he has shown at times.
flapgreen
Footballguy
I appreciate the positive vibe. Very true.
I loathe Daniel Snyder. I think he's a terrible person.
But I feel for McCloughan. It's a awful thing to have to go through. I hope he finds his way out. He's a hell of a football mind. But if he's still struggling with alcohol, football is the least of his concerns. Wish him the best.
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flapgreen
Footballguy
From Cutler to Marshall, Bennett, and Alshon two seasons ago to Glennon to Wheaton, Meredith, and Miller now. Now Fox is a lame duck coach with a talent depleted roster that can't possibly succeed in his 3rd season. That couldn't possibly have been Pace's plan. Could it? He either had a bad plan or screwed up royally. Neither is a good thing.
Hawkeye21
Footballguy
I keep thinking the same thing but to be fair the Bears were not winning with all of that talent either. Something was wrong so the slate looks to be getting wiped clean in order to start over fresh. I really hope it works.
RBM
Footballguy
Bears sign defensive tackle John Jenkins
Getty Images
The Bears added some size up front, giving a shot to a guy who could help their run defense.
According to a tweet from his agent, veteran defensive tackle John Jenkins has agreed to terms with the Bears.
Jenkins, a former third-round pick of the Saints, spent last year with the Seahawks. He played nine games there.
Jenkins battled weight issues when he was in New Orleans, but could be a valuable member of a rotation in Chicago.
Getty Images
The Bears added some size up front, giving a shot to a guy who could help their run defense.
According to a tweet from his agent, veteran defensive tackle John Jenkins has agreed to terms with the Bears.
Jenkins, a former third-round pick of the Saints, spent last year with the Seahawks. He played nine games there.
Jenkins battled weight issues when he was in New Orleans, but could be a valuable member of a rotation in Chicago.
Interseptopus
Footballguy
Hawkeye21
Footballguy
flapgreen
Footballguy
onionsack
Footballguy
Packers fan here, just popping in to say congrats on picking up Marcus Cooper. Guy was 3 picks away from being Mr. Irrelevant in the 2013 draft, but has managed to scratch and claw his way to making an impact and sniffing the Pro Bowl. Just read his letter to Bears fans and gotta say, this seems like the kind of player that you want on your team to change the culture and the direction. Packers could have sure used a player of his caliber, commitment and tenacity at the position. But sincerely hope he works out for you guys - nothing beats a vibrant Packers/Bears rivalry.
Harlem Globetrotters/Washington Generals down?flapgreen said:
I think Pittsburgh-Cleveland(x2) has to be in play here as well. Been a longer time since Cleveland had championship potential than it has for the Bears. Plus, the Steelers might be the only team in history to ever "win" a rivalry (the other team ceased to exist).
ShamrockPride
Footballguy
From an outsider's perspective and a Buc fan, I think you guys are seriously underestimating Glennon. I don't blame you, cause he has limited work from a few seasons ago. But when he was starting, he looked good.
The only reason he isn't isn't the starter in Tampa now is because we had the #1 overall pick in a "can't miss QB" year and Glennon was still just getting his feet wet starting at the time. Was still very much a gray area.
I think as LOD said, him and Meredith will be good together. Guy has a career 2:1 TD:INT ratio (30:15), and that is under Greg f***ing "I set Tampa back 5 years" Schiano and Lovie who dumped Glennon cause Lovie sucks (you all know this) and needed a veteran Journeyboy QB with McCown.
To sum it up, I think if Glennon has decent coaching/OC (idk your guys situation there), I think he has top 9-12 QB potential. Not going to win you a SB, but if your GM can build properly, you guys could be right on the edge, first team out of the playoffs by final year of Glennon's deal.
The only reason he isn't isn't the starter in Tampa now is because we had the #1 overall pick in a "can't miss QB" year and Glennon was still just getting his feet wet starting at the time. Was still very much a gray area.
I think as LOD said, him and Meredith will be good together. Guy has a career 2:1 TD:INT ratio (30:15), and that is under Greg f***ing "I set Tampa back 5 years" Schiano and Lovie who dumped Glennon cause Lovie sucks (you all know this) and needed a veteran Journeyboy QB with McCown.
To sum it up, I think if Glennon has decent coaching/OC (idk your guys situation there), I think he has top 9-12 QB potential. Not going to win you a SB, but if your GM can build properly, you guys could be right on the edge, first team out of the playoffs by final year of Glennon's deal.
Hawkeye21
Footballguy
In the last 20 years, yes. Overall, not even close. Another overreaction from Flap. The formatting is messed up but you can see it's fairly even. There were plenty of years when the Packers were pretty terrible but you have to go back a ways.flapgreen said:
Club success[edit]
As of 2015, the Bears and Packers have won a combined 22 championships in the league's history.
Team
NFL Titles[38]
Conference Titles
Divisional Titles[39]
Wild Card Berths
Playoff Appearances
NFL Title Game Appearances[40]
Super Bowl Appearances[41]
All-time Record
Chicago Bears
9
4
18
4
26[42]
8
2
758-573-42
Green Bay Packers
13
9
17
7
31
11
5
752-568-37
Combined
22
13
35
11
57
19
7
1510–1141–79
Table correct through the end of the 2015 season.
Summary of results[edit]
Bears wins
Ties
Packers wins
Bears points
Packers points
Regular season
93
6
93
3,284
3,300
Postseason
1
1
47
35
Total
94
6
94
3,331
3,335
Updated December 18, 2016.
flapgreen
Footballguy
Don't take everything so literal. 20 years is most of my adult life. Might as well be 50. What happened 40-50 years ago is meaningless to me.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Cian Fahey who is very knowledgeable about football (despite being Irish ) seems to really like Glennon. Check his twitter account - shows some nice gifs of Glennon in action moving in the pocket well and making some nice throws.
) seems to really like Glennon. Check his twitter account - shows some nice gifs of Glennon in action moving in the pocket well and making some nice throws.
3nOut
Footballguy
Why are you so opposed to the Bears waiting until next year to pick a QB from supposedly a much better crop?
Same question... I'm willing to be patient, but my question is will the Mccaskeys and Ted Phillips be patient with Pace?
flapgreen
Footballguy
I'll ask you this. Do you think the Bears will be worse next year than they were last year? If you think they'll have a better record, the Bears will have no shot at getting Darnold or Rosen. They have a shot at possibly the top qb off the board this year. They would be fools to sit around hoping they tank another season to get either of those guys. I don't care who else they draft at number three. If you don't have a franchise qb in this league, you don't have anything.
flapgreen
Footballguy
Patience in hoping you're team has another 2 or 3 win season is foolishness. That's what it will take to get one of the top 2 qbs. You have the 3rd pick. One of these QBs will be a franchise qb. You pick the one you think it will be.
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Brunell4MVP
Footballguy
Not a Bears fan, but as an outside observer some of you guys are seriously underrating Glennon. I bet within 2 years he is a top 15 QB. CHI hasn't had that in years.
Bronco Billy
Footballguy
I believe that if the Bears are smart they'll go in a different direction than your suggestion. As a Packer fan I hope they follow your advice to a tee.
And you ought to be ashamed to call yourself a Bears fan and then at the same time say you could care less about their history and the history of the greatest rivalry in sports.
flapgreen
Footballguy
Completely out of context with what I was saying. I hope they take my advice as well. Having hof qbs for the last 20 years has clouded your judgement.
flapgreen
Footballguy
Where do you rank Cutler in the starting qb group from year to year? Glennon isn't an upgrade over Jay. Maybe he will be a top 15 QB at some point. But no one is clamoring that he will be a franchise qb. They have a shot at one this year. Better take it. Bears haven't taken a qb in the first 4 rounds since 2003. Easy to see why they have been a failure.
Bronco Billy
Footballguy
I hope they take my advice as well. Having hof qbs for the last 20 years has clouded your judgement.
Which one the the incoming QBs is a certain franchise guy, much less certain to be better than Glennon?
Bronco Billy
Footballguy
Okay, explain where I missed the context:
Hawkeye21
Footballguy
Flap, you and I are around the same age I think. The Bear's history is one of the things I've always loved the most about them. When I was a kid I loved watching the NFL Films on the old school teams. I wasn't old enough to remember watching Peyton play on live TV yet I've watched numerous videos of him and he's always been one of my favorites. The Bears are absolutely nothing right now with out their history so I find it's important to get in mind.
As drafting a QB this year, I'm not sure yet. Part of me wants them to see if they can get a guy in the second round because I'm not sold on any of them being good enough for the third pick. The other part of me knows that it's unlikely they will have this high of a pick next year and won't have a shot at the top QBs. I find myself changing how I feel about the draft all the time.
As drafting a QB this year, I'm not sure yet. Part of me wants them to see if they can get a guy in the second round because I'm not sold on any of them being good enough for the third pick. The other part of me knows that it's unlikely they will have this high of a pick next year and won't have a shot at the top QBs. I find myself changing how I feel about the draft all the time.
