Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
Cards are going to get Murray back very soon.
I doubt Murray wants to see them anywhere near #1 overall, too tempting to take a QB and then move Murray at some point.
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***Chicago Bears Thread*** Ben Johnson hired. The Resurrection Begins! (8 Viewers)
- Thread starter flapgreen
- Start date
I doubt Murray wants to see them anywhere near #1 overall, too tempting to take a QB and then move Murray at some point.
InDitkaWeTrust
Footballguy
I'm convinced the best plan of action is to trade down from #2 to a QB needy team and draft Harrison Jr with #3. Take a LT with the trade down and surround Fields with an upgraded line and defense. If he fails, then the Bears can draft a QB in 2025. Build the lines and surrounding skill players then take a QB if necessary. Will it happen? Knowing this organization , I doubt it. Caleb will be a splash signing and pairing him with MHJ will look good to the public and the Bears could use some PR capital right about now.
Sunday Gravy
Footballguy
Too cheap to ever get a hotshot candidate. And the GM is usually a loser so you're already behind in the count.
Sunday Gravy
Footballguy
Sweat deal is done. But yeah, please build both lines before anything else.
InDitkaWeTrust
Footballguy
This is the Bears' coaching issues in a nutshell:
I asked Matt Eberflus why Tyson Bagent was asked to play more from the pocket in the second half against the Saints.
Here is Eberflus' response:
“You know, it’s, again, about the design of it, you know. It wasn’t a reason for that going inside, outside the pocket. We were doing what we thought was going to win the football game for us. Again, that’s where it is. That’s where it is. Again, some of those things in the fourth quarter were really about us, just execution. The execution piece of it. Got to do a better job, and protecting the football is number one. And when you do that and we’ve done that, we’ve had success as a football team.”
Twitter Link
I asked Matt Eberflus why Tyson Bagent was asked to play more from the pocket in the second half against the Saints.
Here is Eberflus' response:
“You know, it’s, again, about the design of it, you know. It wasn’t a reason for that going inside, outside the pocket. We were doing what we thought was going to win the football game for us. Again, that’s where it is. That’s where it is. Again, some of those things in the fourth quarter were really about us, just execution. The execution piece of it. Got to do a better job, and protecting the football is number one. And when you do that and we’ve done that, we’ve had success as a football team.”
Twitter Link
FairWarning
Footballguy
I don’t want another qb. It’s obvious they don’t know how to develop one. Calib is Fields 2.0.
Max Power
Footballguy
Chat GPT could spit out a more coherent answer. I don't like Flus, but his media comments are the worst thing about him.
Max Power
Footballguy
I think the Bears will end up with 1 pick between 1-3 (Carolina, Arizona, NyG) look to be the bottom tier.
Bears finish somewhere between 4-6 overall pick. (Bears, Pats, Broncos, Titans tier) Bears are going to Beat Carolina this week and should win against Arizona. I can see another win against ATL or a divisional team. Bears are probably a 5 win team.
With 1 or 2, I think you entertain a trade down. at 3 I think you take MHjr. I think Dj Moore and Tyler Scott are the only two WRs under contract for next year.
4-6 range They can still grab an elite OT.
Bears finish somewhere between 4-6 overall pick. (Bears, Pats, Broncos, Titans tier) Bears are going to Beat Carolina this week and should win against Arizona. I can see another win against ATL or a divisional team. Bears are probably a 5 win team.
With 1 or 2, I think you entertain a trade down. at 3 I think you take MHjr. I think Dj Moore and Tyler Scott are the only two WRs under contract for next year.
4-6 range They can still grab an elite OT.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
I will go ahead and make a bold suggestion and I have no doubt some of you will shake your head no but...
-Go hire Jim Harbaugh and lift him out of Ann Arbor, and I will take it a step further, save us any moral compass nonsense as if any of the mess in Michigan has any impact on the ability to perhaps turn the franchise around. This guy is perfect for you all, and Jim might not want the job BUT...
Bears will have 2 high Draft Picks, Bears may or may not have a QB in Fields,
Harbaugh did OK with a running style QB and took SF pretty far.
I would think if you all had even half or 3 quarters of the success SF had, this would be a no brainer.
The Bears are going to have a new HC next year. Fire the turd in charge right now, get the Asst to be named interim HC and act like you might hire him but ASAP get a contract in front of Harbaugh and encourage him to simply resign at Michigan. This is the NFL, nobody cares what happens at Michigan, he has a deep knowledge of the upcoming 24 and '25 draft classes, lot of Big 10 NFL prospects, be a great time to have him come home to Chicago where he played QB and perhaps was the last QB to start in an NFCC, is that right?
Keep an open mind is what I'm saying. Michigan's turmoil could be a huge opp for the Bears to come in and sweep Harbaugh off his feet.
-Go hire Jim Harbaugh and lift him out of Ann Arbor, and I will take it a step further, save us any moral compass nonsense as if any of the mess in Michigan has any impact on the ability to perhaps turn the franchise around. This guy is perfect for you all, and Jim might not want the job BUT...
Bears will have 2 high Draft Picks, Bears may or may not have a QB in Fields,
Harbaugh did OK with a running style QB and took SF pretty far.
I would think if you all had even half or 3 quarters of the success SF had, this would be a no brainer.
The Bears are going to have a new HC next year. Fire the turd in charge right now, get the Asst to be named interim HC and act like you might hire him but ASAP get a contract in front of Harbaugh and encourage him to simply resign at Michigan. This is the NFL, nobody cares what happens at Michigan, he has a deep knowledge of the upcoming 24 and '25 draft classes, lot of Big 10 NFL prospects, be a great time to have him come home to Chicago where he played QB and perhaps was the last QB to start in an NFCC, is that right?
Keep an open mind is what I'm saying. Michigan's turmoil could be a huge opp for the Bears to come in and sweep Harbaugh off his feet.
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FairWarning
Footballguy
Sad to think of them drafting in the 4-6 range with that crap schedule. That’s what get coaches fired.
FairWarning
Footballguy
MoP - if they lose at home to Carolina, they may have a new coach at the bye.
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Max Power
Footballguy
I'd entertain the idea of Harbaugh. He would be the tough style coach the city embraces. Not sure ownership likes abrasive guys though, so that is going to be the real hurdle.
I honestly haven't been paying attention to the spying scandal, but how much was that helping Michigan win games vs his coaching ability?
A damn MOP, we had a couple good years under Lovie (Mostly good defense). Rex Grossman took us to the Superbowl and Jay Cutler lost in the NFCC (although he got hurt that game)
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
That's right, Rex Grossman, overlooked him
Max Power
Footballguy
Detroit should put the Bears away twice if they are a real contender.
Minny is starting Dobbs, so that could be an actual winnable game
Packers suck, but they have the Bears number.
Eberflus has never beaten a division opponent.
Max Power
Footballguy
Easy to do
FairWarning
Footballguy
The common theme of the Bears wins - teams have similar talent to the Bears. When was the last time they beat a legitimate non-division team that was better? Probably the ugly TB Thursday night game where Foles beat Brady.Detroit should put the Bears away twice if they are a real contender.
Minny is starting Dobbs, so that could be an actual winnable game
Packers suck, but they have the Bears number.
Eberflus has never beaten a division opponent.
Max Power
Footballguy
lol, yeah the game where Brady didn't know what down it was. Bucs went on to win the SB that year too. Pretty much the highlight of our last 5 years.The common theme of the Bears wins - teams have similar talent to the Bears. When was the last time they beat a legitimate non-division team that was better? Probably the ugly TB Thursday night game where Foles beat Brady.Detroit should put the Bears away twice if they are a real contender.
Minny is starting Dobbs, so that could be an actual winnable game
Packers suck, but they have the Bears number.
Eberflus has never beaten a division opponent.
InDitkaWeTrust
Footballguy
I'm all in on the Harbaugh train. If he wins, nobody even talks about the spygate stuff. Hell, even in NFL circles those shenanigans are given a weak slap on the wrist (BB, I'm looking at you). I'm also all in on firing Eberflus, but Luke Getsy (OC) can't coach his way out of a paper bag. You might as well give that interim position to my 10 year old. They'd be better off bringing in Lovie for the remainder of the year and retaining him on staff in some function when the new HC is hired.
2024, Keep Fields, trade down the Carolina pick #1/#2 for a boatload of picks and take a OT with the #5-6 Bears original pick. Resign Mooney and draft a 2-3 rd rookie WR and sign a FA journeyman WR. Spend a 2-3 rounder on a top tier Center and then start picking best available talent.
Pip's Invitation
Footballguy
That is coachspeak crossed with word vomit.
Sunday Gravy
Footballguy
Are you kidding...I would love that. And he wanted the job last year but he wanted total control and one of those huge deals. They should've said yes to both. But the Bears are too cheap an organization to ever get a guy like him. It was such a no brainer and they passed.
Sunday Gravy
Footballguy
That wuss standing on the sideline in that big coat watching the second half. Biggest game of his life. Home, NFC championship against the Packers of all teams. Caleb Hanie turned in a noble effort to keep us alive until the end.
Statorama
Footballguy
I have this very bad feeling that the Bears management is actually trying to see if they can move forward with Bagent as QB1 full time.
That's just madness. He is an acceptable QB2. He's not Brock Purdy. He's not Trent Dilfer. He's not even Mike Tomczak. He might be a more elusive Jarrett Stidham. But he's not a QB1 in the NFL. He can step in if the QB1 is injured and not look overwhelmed. That's awesome. Not every team has that. It's a bonus. A blessing even. But if they have the goofy notion of "hey look, he goes through his progressions quickly like Purdy!!!! We can plug him in to our system like they did with Purdy!!!!" that's crazy.
He's Zach Wilson without the world class defense backing him up.
That's just madness. He is an acceptable QB2. He's not Brock Purdy. He's not Trent Dilfer. He's not even Mike Tomczak. He might be a more elusive Jarrett Stidham. But he's not a QB1 in the NFL. He can step in if the QB1 is injured and not look overwhelmed. That's awesome. Not every team has that. It's a bonus. A blessing even. But if they have the goofy notion of "hey look, he goes through his progressions quickly like Purdy!!!! We can plug him in to our system like they did with Purdy!!!!" that's crazy.
He's Zach Wilson without the world class defense backing him up.
InDitkaWeTrust
Footballguy
Ouch. Nobody deserves that comp!
InDitkaWeTrust
Footballguy
I'm done with the Bears if that scenario happens.
I still want to see if Bagent can fix his errors. Maybe it's just my imagination, or wishful thinking, but the offense seems to be way more in sync with him at the helm. The coaching staff probably has an idea whether or not he can be coached into a better version of himself, I am hoping that he can. At this point, the only benefit to playing Fields, in my mind, is to see if his trade value can increase. I do not want him to sign a huge extension to be QB1 of this team. If Bagent can't improve hugely by the end of the year, it's drake maye or caleb williams. IF he is able to improve enough to keep the QB1 door propped open, I would trade back one of the picks and still take a high-quality QB near the end of the 1st or beginning of the 2nd round (ewers, sanders, nix, ?) and let him compete with Bagent for the job of throwing to Marvin Harrison.
Statorama
Footballguy
I get it, and don't get me wrong, I like Bagent. I liked Tomczak and Miller and Flutie too. But the Bears need to know by the end of the year if Justin Fields is Lamar Jackson or Bobby Douglas (or Kordell Stewart). Knowing what they have or don't have in Fields by the end of the year will dictate the direction of this team for the next 5 seasons.
I think they (and we) already know enough about Fields. If he were in his first, or even second, year, I would want to keep him to see if he could develop as a passer. I have seen enough to break contact, and I think the Bears have too. If he flourishes for the rest of the year, I hope they trade him for a decent haul. He may, indeed, end up being a good NFL QB, but I think his contract situation is out of sync with the rest of the Bears team at this point, I hope they reset the clock with a rookie QB from a talented class. The Bears usually don't get this many chances to pick early, hopefully they navigate this wisely and go a very long time before they have another chance at these early picks.
Sunday Gravy
Footballguy
Agree. I thought there was a chance he can be a cross between like Cam and Lamar but it doesn't seem like that's realistic.
InDitkaWeTrust
Footballguy
I don't think any of us have seen enough of Fields to make a sounds judgement. It's interesting to note that Bagent is doing some of the exact same things Fields was doing in the 1st 4 games. I do think Bagent processes a bit quicker, but if you watch early season Fields and Bagent's last game, you'll see a lot of similarities. Mainly, almost no anticipation passing. It makes me wonder if this is more of a coach driven phenomenon or if both QBs just have trouble passing with anticipation. It's a skill and art, for sure.
I also worry that if Bagent takes over as QB1 next season that opposing DCs will have plenty of tape to be able to scheme against his weaknesses and we'll be in a Jarrett Stidham situation. Also, as far as contracts go, we can use the 5th year option for FIelds this year for relatively cheap. That'll give us next season with more weapons and a more competent coaching staff to thoroughly evaluate Fields. If he doesn't work out, then we're up crap creek anyway. Trade him for pennies on the dollar and roll into the 2025 draft looking for a QB with both lines stocked and more offensive skill players.
Sunday Gravy
Footballguy
How much more of Fields do you need to see? I think you just want to see him change which is understandable but we've seen plenty. And I see a guy much more deliberate in his decision making in Bagent. But he's not a starting QB. He just isn't talented enough. Maybe put his head on Fields body.
InDitkaWeTrust
Footballguy
I want to see him with an OC who will adapt "his system" to the talent around him. Matt Nagy didn't. He stubbornly threw Justin into a complex, slow to develop system as a rookie. Getsy has all but said that it doesn't matter who starts this week, his offense will stay the same. It's stubbornly stayed the same all season. Complex for no reason, slow to develop, receivers doing stuff that makes no sense...the list goes on and on. That's madness given the talent Justin has AND how comical the OL has played.
FairWarning
Footballguy
I have no idea if he’s the answer, but I know Fields isn’t.
Max Power
Footballguy
I think Bagent still has potential. I hope he gets the start again this week. He needs to get better with ball placement, but I love how he moves in the pocket and finds throwing lanes. He has the legs to get first downs when needed as well. I think he is a smart kid who understands some of the finer points of the game.
The second half vs the Saints was the only time he really looked outmatched in the NFL. They were bringing the pressure and he wasn't reacting well by forcing some bad throws. I don't fully let Getsy off the hook for this either. We run screens all the damn time when its the wrong play call, but don't go to the RB screen game when the Defense has their ears pinned back. Its frustrating to watch this team not adjust to anything.
I mentioned in the Bryce Young thread how Bagent looks much better than Young at this point in their careers. So the thinking that we've seen everything one guy has to offer, but the other is sure to improve feels premature to put a label on Bagent so soon. He's a rookie with 3 career starts. Doubtful he is the Bears future QB1, but it just makes sense to start him again. If he can't show out vs a bad Panthers D that is likely missing Burns, then I'll dial my future expectations way down.
The second half vs the Saints was the only time he really looked outmatched in the NFL. They were bringing the pressure and he wasn't reacting well by forcing some bad throws. I don't fully let Getsy off the hook for this either. We run screens all the damn time when its the wrong play call, but don't go to the RB screen game when the Defense has their ears pinned back. Its frustrating to watch this team not adjust to anything.
I mentioned in the Bryce Young thread how Bagent looks much better than Young at this point in their careers. So the thinking that we've seen everything one guy has to offer, but the other is sure to improve feels premature to put a label on Bagent so soon. He's a rookie with 3 career starts. Doubtful he is the Bears future QB1, but it just makes sense to start him again. If he can't show out vs a bad Panthers D that is likely missing Burns, then I'll dial my future expectations way down.
Sunday Gravy
Footballguy
Of course. He's a good dude too. What a gem we got with him. One of the few picks that idiot nailed. But why would we keep an awesome top ten linebacker for his entire career? Poles knew better!
Max Power
Footballguy
Of course. Its ridiculous to pay the best ILB 20mil a year when you can pay a top 10 ILB 18mil a year. Then watch as your biggest FA signing arguably gets outplayed by UDFA Jack Sanborn
Balco
Footballguy
He is nothing like Zach Wilson. Not saying he is the answer at all, and he needs to protect the football, but this was his second start after being drafted from a D2 school. Season is lost, Bears are smart letting Bagent get a ton of game action.
Sunday Gravy
Footballguy
So let's recap. We could've had CJ Stroud, Jalen Carter AND Roquan on this team this year. That's how you build.
Statorama
Footballguy
We also could have had Mahomes instead of Trubisky. Oy vey!
Max Power
Footballguy
I actually couldn't be happier with tonight's results.
Bears Win
Panthers Loss
Bagent shows us exactly what he is. A backup level QB.
Defense looks improved and healthy.
Won so ugly the coaches remain on the hotsest.
The only thing I didn't like was how gassed Sweat looked in the 4th.
Bears Win
Panthers Loss
Bagent shows us exactly what he is. A backup level QB.
Defense looks improved and healthy.
Won so ugly the coaches remain on the hotsest.
The only thing I didn't like was how gassed Sweat looked in the 4th.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
This Tyson Badger Qb is having the night of his life in the post game interviews
If he never played another down of NFL, he is a UDFA rookie that just won a game vs the No 1 overall pick from the same year
With his Dad the arm wrestling champion in the stands watching him
Just for one night can we be happy, especially for this kid?
God Bless him, he'll remember this game for the rest of his life, what a memory to take with you
-Some folks don't remember but Tua was not the starting QB for the Phins vs Bills last year in the Playoffs, it was a 7th Rd rookie named Skylar
His dad was in the stands watching him, he almost pulled it off but lost 34-31
If he never played another down of NFL, he is a UDFA rookie that just won a game vs the No 1 overall pick from the same year
With his Dad the arm wrestling champion in the stands watching him
Just for one night can we be happy, especially for this kid?
God Bless him, he'll remember this game for the rest of his life, what a memory to take with you
-Some folks don't remember but Tua was not the starting QB for the Phins vs Bills last year in the Playoffs, it was a 7th Rd rookie named Skylar
His dad was in the stands watching him, he almost pulled it off but lost 34-31
Team Chaos
Footballguy
I really doubt that the coaches have any idea about anything football related. I am afraid that if you are counting on these coaches to know the right direction to go, you will be very disappointed.
Sunday Gravy
Footballguy
Starting to think the D has potential. Can definitely do worse than Sweat and Ngouwke as your ends. This guy Billings is pretty damn good against the run. Would be nice if one of the two rookie tackles hit.
InDitkaWeTrust
Footballguy
Fields definitely has a role to play in that statistic, but the OL was a freakin' patchwork through the first 4-5 games. THey have gelled nicely and we've gotten several back from injury over the past 4-5.
Grahamburn
Footballguy
If they pass on Caleb Williams or Drake Maye to keep Fields they deserve everything that’s coming to them.
Max Power
Footballguy
I'm feeling pretty indifferent about the rest of the year. My two biggest desires are for a coaching change in 2024 and the Panthers to lose out.
These coaches will continue to show they cant cut it. Only need Poles to make the right call, which is another story.
Panthers remaining schedule... I'll give them 2 wins. Split with the Bucs and beat one of Titans, Falcons, Packers. (3-14 overall)
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Jags
I think its going to be between Carolina and NYG for the #1 pick. I'm not sure the NYG have another W in them.
Bears remaining Schedule... I think there is a good chance we go 4 straight Ls here. Detroit looks for real. Vikes & Browns are tough on the road. Cards, Falcons, Pack are all winnable games, but the Bears have nothing to play for at that point. Maybe go 1-2. End the year at 4-13 Overall
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These coaches will continue to show they cant cut it. Only need Poles to make the right call, which is another story.
Panthers remaining schedule... I'll give them 2 wins. Split with the Bucs and beat one of Titans, Falcons, Packers. (3-14 overall)
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Jags
I think its going to be between Carolina and NYG for the #1 pick. I'm not sure the NYG have another W in them.
Bears remaining Schedule... I think there is a good chance we go 4 straight Ls here. Detroit looks for real. Vikes & Browns are tough on the road. Cards, Falcons, Pack are all winnable games, but the Bears have nothing to play for at that point. Maybe go 1-2. End the year at 4-13 Overall
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