Gadabout
Footballguy
PT's a dog, but he's definitely replaceable. It's all Ivory now.
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Chris Ivory (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter GreedoShotFirst
- Start date
this is kinda dumb. when i saw his initial post, i thought there had been some sort of report that pierre would not play until after the bye week. i was, ofc, premature in, and misdiagnosed of, my conclusion. i should have realized it was some dude speaking his uneducated opinion and not panicked about pierre being inactive until after the bye.ofc, he still may be, but it seems there is no indication from the team, any beat reporters, or anyone close to the team.
Carolina Hustler
Footballguy
of course I do, that's why I'm wondering what the heck you're talking about.Show me how you come up with that, unless you haven't done the work needed to figure that out, you'll have it already at your fingertips...
Carolina Hustler
Footballguy
insanity
Gadabout
Footballguy
1. Watch all Saints games.2. Watch all Saints game that feature Ivory.3. Compare.
Limp Ditka
Footballguy
:subscribe:
Carolina Hustler
Footballguy
How very scientific of you...
Breesisdaman
Footballguy
When there is official word I'll be sure you know it. For now (I assume you own PT) I would prepare for the possibility and hope for the best. I have seen this injury situation unfold numerous times before with the Saints and I know how Payton handles it. I saw it with Deuce, With Bush 2 times, with PT and now here we are again with a fresh season of RB injuries. Why would Sean Payton do it any different than he has in the past? The Panthers are a poor team, you are the head coach and you want your stud RB for the long haul, the backup RB's are tearing it up. You have a choice to make, let PT play a division game against the Panthers or give him another two weeks off (counting the bye), The Sean Payton I know will do the later. Now wait for the official word.
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Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
Ivory had a nice game against almost the worst rush defense in the NFL today, carry on.
Breesisdaman
Footballguy
Yes he did. Next up the Browns.
ivory had a great game today. he is on my bench in many leagues and now i will happily start him in pierres place since it seems he is a better play than betts.however, from a saints standpoint, they are not exactly blasting teams out of the ballpark. they certainly could use any help they get. if pierre is healthy, i fully expect him to play. 6 weeks is not rushing a guy back. pierre is much more versatile and effective than ivory. its possible that ivory is a better runner, tho doubtful. but there is really no doubt that pierre is a better receiver, route runner, open field runner, and blocker than ivory.not that ivory cant grow into that role. but given the saints situation, i think they are gonna do all they can to win right now. and i think that would involve a preferrence to pierre at this time. after this yr, its very possible they let pierre walk, and if they do its likely they are correct. but right now, i think the team is gonna play their best players.
Gadabout
Footballguy
Yeah, dude. Nothing but top 3 defenses from here on out...
Carolina Hustler
Footballguy
Answering to your 20 carries top 3 proclamation earlier:I asked how you came up with that for which you told me to use the internet or watch the games... Which sounds like you're shoveling mud, because you can't show me how either # makes sense.:sigh: Why do I have to be the one to break this down for a Saints fan?.... Ridiculous...OK, here you go....first of allNo RB has averaged 20 carries a game in NO since Drew Brees got there in 2006, 4 years ago.No RB has averaged 20 carries a game in NO since Sean Payton got there in 2006, 4 years ago.No RB has averaged 20 carries a game in NO since Duece McAllister did it in 2003, 7 years ago.Second,He's averaging: (without taking on a ground and pound role, for which if happened would surely decrease his ypc)6.29 yards per carryx 20 carries would be 125 yards per game x16 games would be 2000 yards on the yearx the typical .1pt per yard would be 200 fantasy points0 TD's per carry which averages out to 0 TD's on the year = 0 fantasy pointsAnd that's ONLY if you average in this weeks game against the 30th ranked run D.. Before which he ran for an average of 4.1 per.. pretty average...But in using your inflated #'s.... Give's him an average of 12.5 fantasy points per game equating to a 20th rank amongst RB's so far in 2010 Far from top 3....So, you can see, 1) with you saying 20 carries a game, which will never happen, 2) and with his stats so far averaged out over 20 carries a game, which would in reality be lower if he had 20 carries, 3) and the fact that even using these silly #'s he still doesn't land top 3.. but at 20, How I might question you on how you come up with that prediction....
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
You were hyping Mike Bell last season. You need a t-shirt that says NO RB3 fan because whoever owns that spot is who you like. How many games do you think Chris Ivory will be worth starting the rest of the season?
My beef is with Coach P who said Thomas did not have a HAS after the Atlanta game and clearly he has because he's been out for weeks now. Maybe even some ligament tear or stretching in there, we'll never know.The same team he plays Championship Week
Or maybe the same team PT plays Championship Week 
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
Ivory is going to be what the rest of the way? RB2...RB1? He played a rush defense that allowed Pitt with no QB to run wild and ended up getting blown out 38-6 in that game...today was 31-6...Ivory is SP pirate booty as usual. The overreaction at times in here is unreal. Not trying to argue with you specifically but this thread is loaded with folks that had a few too many Miller Lites today.
Breesisdaman
Footballguy
The Saints have gotten out of the gate slow this year. Drew Brees and company realize that they could easily be undefeated right now, they really had Atlanta beat but Hartley missed the FG, they had the Cardnals beat until they got careless with turnovers. Truth be told, even with all the injuries, the Saints are today tied for the best record in the NFC conference. They looked a lot less sloppy this game, Brees was crisp and accurate, the Wr's were not dropping and batting away passes into the opposing teams hands and the line played much better. I think the team has turned the corner on the sloppy play myself. As a Saints fan no one would be happier to see PT and Bush both back in the fold because that makes the Saints much more dangerous. Lets hope that happens sooner rather than later but as long as swelling persists in PT's ankle expect Sean Payton to be over cautious- record be damned.
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Carolina Hustler
Footballguy
In the 4 games he has played, he played the 12th, 17th, 28th, and 30th ranked run defensesaverage of 21.75 ranking run defensesIn the 10 games ahead he faces the 23, 1, 27, 3 12, 17, 16, 10, 8, 30average of 14.7 ranking run defensesHe has yet to average better than 1.9 ypc against any team better than 17th ranked run DOnly 3 of his next 9 games are against run D's worse than 17th... that's if he even makes it past PT's return... Sounds like a lot of 1.9 ypc games potentially in his future.. ?BTW, PT averaged 5.4 ypc last season against the entire schedule, not just against the easy portion... see where your boy falls after the tough games come in...
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Breesisdaman
Footballguy
This is more on the line than Ivory. None of the backs can create something from nothing except maybe Reggie Bush. Also Ivory is on the mend from his own MCL injury. He ran stronger today than I have seen since the preseason. He is a load to bring down if he gets through the hole. Lets see if the Saints offensive line can sustain this effort in future weeks. They should against the Browns next week, the Steelers following week probably not.
Are they getting a new line this week?
Breesisdaman
Footballguy
The line just had a hang over I think they woke up a bit today.
Carolina Hustler
Footballguy
Behind that line, before the injuryPT averaged 3.7 ypc against the 7th ranked rush d week 12.6 ypc against the 6th ranked rush d week 23.3 ypc against the 12th ranked rush d week 3Ivory hasn't seen anything tougher than 12th week 3So it'll be easy to compareIn week 3, when Ivory had 7 carries, and PT had 9.... against the very same def, behind the very same O-line, Ivory averaged 1.9 ypc, and PT averaged 3.3.... Nearly 80% better.....
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Carolina Hustler
Footballguy
So you don't think that had anything to do with them facing the 30th ranked rush def ?? Aren't they supposed to look good against one of the worst D's in the league?
there is nothing to indicate that pierre's job is safe. nor is there anything to indicate that ivory is a better runner. as far as who is a more complete back i dont think there is any question who is better.
that is not to say that ivory wont have a role going forward, or that they will keep pierre this offseason. they likely wont bc of the economics and logistics of free agency. but, i would guess that pierre is their preferred back when the game and season is on the line.
that is not to say that ivory wont have a role going forward, or that they will keep pierre this offseason. they likely wont bc of the economics and logistics of free agency. but, i would guess that pierre is their preferred back when the game and season is on the line.
Breesisdaman
Footballguy
I think your numbers prove my point. Last Year PT ran for over 5 ypc, The line has been fluffing it IMO. Nicks with his big contract has been causing penalties and really hasnt been stellar, Evans is not the force he was last year either. They have gotten fat and happy with their Superbowl win. Today watching the line, they looked like a different team. We shall see if that is a trend or a Mirage going forward. By the way, I am not arguing Ivory being as good a ball player as PT and really he doesn't have to be at this point in his career. PT is in danger only because he wants a big contract and now has gotten hurt two seasons in a row. He will have to settle for less money now or he will be gone next season.
Carolina Hustler
Footballguy
I'll ask the question... Since you didn't answer.. I think you're implying that Ivory is the more complete back? lolBased on what?
Carolina Hustler
Footballguy
PT's average would be higher once you averaged in those games against the worst half of the schedule, meaning any team with a worse run d than 16th overall... He only faced teams ranked in the top 12... So, I don't think your point has been proven there.. Add in the games he would have against the 30th, 28th, 27th, 23rd ranked run D's... I'm sure his average would shoot right up...
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Breesisdaman
Footballguy
You wouldnt listen then either. Bell did exactly what I said he would do. He took carries from Bush and PT in a big portion of the season and it frustrated a lot of owners just as I predicted it would. As for this discussion my favorite Saint RB is Reggie Bush followed by PT followed by Chris Ivory. I like Ivory for down the road for sure, this year he is just carrying the tourch until the starters return and then he will see some carries just as Bell did last year. IMO Ivory will be worth starting as a #2 RB until PT returns. We are debating when that return will be. seriously, I like all the Saints running backs but they are not the most durable bunch of guys around. Ivory will have value as long as he himself stays healthy, Ditto Bush and PT. Now who will? LOL I think this is why you will see Sean Payton try to spell Bush and PT going forward if the Saints get out to a lead of any sort. He needs them for the long haul.You were hyping Mike Bell last season. You need a t-shirt that says NO RB3 fan because whoever owns that spot is who you like. How many games do you think Chris Ivory will be worth starting the rest of the season?My beef is with Coach P who said Thomas did not have a HAS after the Atlanta game and clearly he has because he's been out for weeks now. Maybe even some ligament tear or stretching in there, we'll never know.
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Breesisdaman
Footballguy
I for one am not disputing this you are correct. If he is healthy, when it matters, he IS the man. Some other Saints fans in this thread are trying to make Chris Ivory out to be more than PT, if you check my words, I never said that and I would disagree with that notion, for now anyway. Ivory is still too raw a talent to be compared to a talent like Pierre Thomas.
ThePittbully
Footballguy
I think we're likely to see a 3 way committee down the stretch, maybe even 4 way if one of the other backs gets kept. But most likely Bush will go back to his role and Pierre will split with Ivory, Pierre getting slightly more carries in most games.
Harrassment Panda
Footballguy
Yep. People like to bag on Mike Bell for some reason, but he was the Saints' most effective back as a pure runner. Ivory plays exactly like Bell but better.
I think this offense needs a hammer. Even pass-happy Sean Payton seems to realize that.
I think this offense needs a hammer. Even pass-happy Sean Payton seems to realize that.
ROYALWITCHEESE
Footballguy
That's what an ankle sprain is...You were hyping Mike Bell last season. You need a t-shirt that says NO RB3 fan because whoever owns that spot is who you like. How many games do you think Chris Ivory will be worth starting the rest of the season?My beef is with Coach P who said Thomas did not have a HAS after the Atlanta game and clearly he has because he's been out for weeks now. Maybe even some ligament tear or stretching in there, we'll never know.
saintfool
Dead sexy
his style of running reminds me of MBIII actually. part of the reason he fumbles is that he's kind of thrashing around, trying to spin out of the tackle once contact has been made. bell was a one-cut-and-gone kind of runner. very north-south.
zamboni
Footballguy
Interesting tidbits on Ivory and the RB situation going forward:
http://www.nola.com/saints/index.ssf/2010/...oised_to_g.html
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Breesisdaman
Footballguy
Listening today's audible from Bloom is like reading almost word for word what I said in previous posts. With this exception, I would grab Ivory ahead of Woodhead on waivers.
key points being made in the audible:
The Saints backfield is fragile
Ivory has value through the end of the season as filling the role of Mike Bell.
Ivory has high value this week against the Browns
PT may not be back until the Saints bye week giving Ivory increased value over the next few games.
validation from a FF expert I trust
key points being made in the audible:
The Saints backfield is fragile
Ivory has value through the end of the season as filling the role of Mike Bell.
Ivory has high value this week against the Browns
PT may not be back until the Saints bye week giving Ivory increased value over the next few games.
validation from a FF expert I trust
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I love that everyone assumes the Browns are easy to run on. They have looked pretty good so far this year. They aren't the Browns of old, ya know. They have only given up 1 rushing TD all year. Partly because they suck at defending the pass, but all the more reason why the Saints will attack them through the air and not on the ground.
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cubbie5150
Footballguy
Yep. Mendy could only muster 84 yds on 27 carries, @ home & w/ Ben back. It took Mendy's short pass catch to set himself up for his rushing TD (the only one Clev has given up thus far, and they've played some good backs).
FavreCo
Footballguy
Didn't I just read this about Brown?
Breesisdaman
Footballguy
Actually depending on the game , Bell was. Go back and look at the 2009 stats. Game 4 until the end of the season last year both PT and Bell were utilizedMike Bell- Game log 2009Game Log: 2009 Regular Season Games Rushing Receiving FumblesWK Game Date Opp Result G GS Att Yds Avg Lng TD Rec Yds Avg Lng TD FUM Lost1 09/13 DET W 45-27 1 0 28 143 5.1 22 0 -- -- -- -- -- 1 12 09/20 @ PHI W 48-22 1 0 17 86 5.1 23 1 1 9 9.0 9 0 -- --3 09/27 @ BUF W 27-7 0 0 -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --4 10/04 NYJ W 24-10 0 0 -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --5 Bye -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --6 10/18 NYG W 48-27 1 0 15 34 2.3 6 1 -- -- -- -- -- -- --7 10/25 @ MIA W 46-34 1 0 12 80 6.7 35 0 -- -- -- -- -- -- --8 11/02 ATL W 35-27 1 1 17 49 2.9 9 0 -- -- -- -- -- 1 19 11/08 CAR W 30-20 1 0 5 17 3.4 5 0 -- -- -- -- -- -- --10 11/15 @ STL W 28-23 1 1 8 30 3.8 6 0 -- -- -- -- -- -- --11 11/22 @ TB W 38-7 1 0 13 75 5.8 28 2 1 5 5.0 5 0 -- --12 11/30 NE W 38-17 1 0 13 50 3.8 6 0 -- -- -- -- -- -- --13 12/06 @ WAS W 33-30 1 0 16 34 2.1 9 0 -- -- -- -- -- -- --14 12/13 @ ATL W 26-23 0 0 -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --15 12/19 DAL L 17-24 1 0 4 8 2.0 7 1 -- -- -- -- -- -- --16 12/27 TB L 17-20 1 0 7 20 2.9 8 0 -- -- -- -- -- -- --17 01/03 @ CAR L 10-23 1 1 17 28 1.6 9 0 2 -2 -1.0 0 0 -- --TOTAL 13 3 172 654 3.8 35 5 4 12 3.0 9 0 2 2Pierre Thomas 2009 game logRegular Season Games Rushing Receiving FumblesWK Game Date Opp Result G GS Att Yds Avg Lng TD Rec Yds Avg Lng TD FUM Lost1 09/13 DET W 45-27 0 0 -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --2 09/20 @ PHI W 48-22 1 0 -- -- -- -- -- 1 -4 -4.0 -4 0 -- --3 09/27 @ BUF W 27-7 1 0 14 126 9.0 34T 2 -- -- -- -- -- -- --4 10/04 NYJ W 24-10 1 1 19 86 4.5 18 1 4 46 11.5 36 0 1 05 Bye -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --6 10/18 NYG W 48-27 1 0 15 72 4.8 25 0 -- -- -- -- -- -- --7 10/25 @ MIA W 46-34 1 0 8 30 3.8 9 0 1 14 14.0 14 0 -- --8 11/02 ATL W 35-27 1 0 14 91 6.5 30 1 2 9 4.5 8 1 1 19 11/08 CAR W 30-20 1 0 13 50 3.8 12 1 5 31 6.2 17 0 -- --10 11/15 @ STL W 28-23 1 0 11 37 3.4 11 0 1 5 5.0 5 0 -- --11 11/22 @ TB W 38-7 1 1 11 92 8.4 23 0 3 11 3.7 6 0 -- --12 11/30 NE W 38-17 1 1 11 64 5.8 26 0 3 23 7.7 18T 1 -- --13 12/06 @ WAS W 33-30 1 1 6 18 3.0 11 0 8 64 8.0 14 0 -- --14 12/13 @ ATL W 26-23 1 1 13 47 3.6 9 0 6 53 8.8 24 0 -- --15 12/19 DAL L 17-24 1 0 6 20 3.3 5 0 5 50 10.0 29 0 -- --16 12/27 TB L 17-20 1 1 6 60 10.0 26 1 -- -- -- -- -- -- --17 01/03 @ CAR L 10-23 0 0 -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --TOTAL 14 6 147 793 5.4 34 6 39 302 7.7 36 2 2 1Eh its hard to get the numbers to line up where it is readable but you can find it on nfl.com. I guess the important statistic is that Bell had 654yds and 5 TD's playing 13 games and PT had 793 yards and 8 TD's playin 14 games. PT would have had over 1400 yards rushing and 13 TD's if he was able to shoulder the full load last year. He wasn't because of injury and then Bell.
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Road Dogg
Footballguy
it is an epidemic
If you come back after your time off, don't do this. J
Limp Ditka
Footballguy
cubbie5150
Footballguy
My guess would be the fact he was posting that in almost every player thread on the front page.....and it doesn't seem to mean anything.What was wrong with that?
kylechoffman
Footballguy
Any word on when reggie is due back? They have a week 10 bye and should go 2-1 over the next three games (possibly 3-0 since Pit is at home). Any reason for bush to return prior to week 11?
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