GRIDIRON ASSASSIN
Footballguy
Just heard it on ESPN1000 in Chicago.
4-6, maybe late 2nd round.Ok. If he's in, where does he fall in top 10 RB's this year?
Did ESPN say what the rationale behind the ruling was? Did they find the NFL rule to be inapplicable generally or just inapplicable to Clarett? (which would seem odd) This would be quite a landmark ruling if they found the NFL policy to be unenforceable generally.
CheersNEW YORK -- Suspended Ohio State running back Maurice Clarett was ruled eligible for the NFL draft Thursday by a federal judge who concluded that the league's rule violates antitrust laws.U.S. District Judge Shira A. Scheindlin ordered the NFL to let Clarett enter April's draft.Clarett played just one season at Ohio State, leading the Buckeyes to the 2002 national championship. He was barred from playing in the 2003 season for accepting improper benefits from a family friend and then lying about it to investigators.Clarett sued the NFL last summer to challenge the league rule that a player must be out of high school three years for draft eligibility. Thursday's ruling, if not successfully appealed, could allow teenage football stars to take advantage of the marketing and business opportunities available to young athletes in other sports.The league had argued that Clarett should not be eligible because its rule resulted from a collective bargaining agreement with the players and is immune from antitrust scrutiny. The NFL also argued that its rule is reasonable and that Clarett cannot bring such a lawsuit."While, ordinarily, the best offense is a good defense, none of these defenses hold the line," the judge wrote in a 70-page ruling.She said Clarett could bring the lawsuit because he was fighting a policy that excludes all players in his position from selling their services to the only viable buyer -- the NFL."The NFL has not justified Clarett's exclusion by demonstrating that the rule enhances competition. Indeed, Clarett has alleged the very type of injury -- a complete bar to entry into the market for this services -- that the antitrust laws are designed to prevent," she said.
I'm no lawyer but my understanding is any appeal would not prevent Clarett from entering this year's draft because the appeal wouldn't be heard until after the process had been well under way.And if there is an appeal heard before the actual draft, the NFL will lose. I recall last year when all this was going down, John Clayton was on ESPN Radio saying that the NFL was privately petrified of Clarett suing because it was a fairly open and shut case of antitrust, and they knew from other sports leagues, that they had no leg to stand on. The only thing the NFL had going for it was the support of the Players Association, but obviously that didn't stop Clarett from doing his thing.CheersIs the NFL going to appeal? If so I guess that bars Clarett from the draft. Does this affect Fitzgerald at all?
The NFL could seek an expedited appeal and the Court of Appeals could hear it before the draft, so I don't think the timing will necessarily be an issue.I'm no lawyer but my understanding is any appeal would not prevent Clarett from entering this year's draft because the appeal wouldn't be heard until after the process had been well under way.
They probably could seek cert for an expedited appeal given the ripeness of the issue, but I agree generally that the criteria for overruling a lower court decision ("clearly erroneos" or "abuse of discretion"... I forget the specific threshold) is one that would not be easy to acheive. Anyone think we'll see an 18 year old getting crushed on the gridiron anytime soon? Beyond the uninformed/misled youngsters who will risk their careers entering the draft and not being selected (see the NBA), I'd say the real losers in this ruling are the 4-year college players who now may be bypassed over the promise of some unproven youngster in late rounds, although it's hard to know how NFL teams will be able to draft and make room for kids, who more than likely are not physically or mentally capable of playing NFL ball out of the gate. A lot of them will get cut in last minute roster downsizing and at that point they will likely not be eligible to play in college.I'm no lawyer but my understanding is any appeal would not prevent Clarett from entering this year's draft because the appeal wouldn't be heard until after the process had been well under way.And if there is an appeal heard before the actual draft, the NFL will lose. I recall last year when all this was going down, John Clayton was on ESPN Radio saying that the NFL was privately petrified of Clarett suing because it was a fairly open and shut case of antitrust, and they knew from other sports leagues, that they had no leg to stand on. The only thing the NFL had going for it was the support of the Players Association, but obviously that didn't stop Clarett from doing his thing.Cheers
I agree with you here. That would be the best route the NFL could go. Not quite MLB's Minor League Baseball, but something for someone who doesn't want to go to college.But will they do it?The NFL Developmental League - 18-20 year olds only need apply!I'm only speculating here, but if the NFL has to admit anyone who's graduated high school, they're going to have to start a minor league and stop depending on the colleges to season their young players.
They don't HAVE to do anything. As long as the NFL keeps its existing roster requirements, this won't get out of hand. The difference between the NBA and the NFL is physical development. The vast majority of blue chip football prospects coming out of high school are no way, shape or form physically developed enough to have a presence in the NFL. And you simply don't know how a player is going to develop until he puts the weight on. For example, it's not uncommon for a blue chip defensive line prospect to weigh 235-240 coming out of high school...if he doesn't put on a significant amount of weight chances are he's either a) not going to pan out or b) must be converted to linebackers, safety, etc...CheersI'm only speculating here, but if the NFL has to admit anyone who's graduated high school, they're going to have to start a minor league and stop depending on the colleges to season their young players.
Which would be long overdue.I guess I'm in the minority here, but IF this causes significant changes to the way college and pro football relate to each other (not sure it will), I'm loving it.The college "minor league" sucks for everyone except NFL management.A real minor league would be better for all involved. College football could go back to being college football again, and we'd have the minor leagues to follow/watch.I'm only speculating here, but if the NFL has to admit anyone who's graduated high school, they're going to have to start a minor league and stop depending on the colleges to season their young players.
Yup.So now I imagine we will have a bunch of 19-21 year olds making small $ while struggling to make it in the minors. At least with the old way the kids were getting an opportunity to get a college education out of the process.On the upside, think of all of those cities lucky enough to get a minor league NFL team.I'm only speculating here, but if the NFL has to admit anyone who's graduated high school, they're going to have to start a minor league and stop depending on the colleges to season their young players.
I'm guessing that the Honorable U.S. Distirct Judge Shira A. Scheindlin has a late first/early second round rookie pick in her upcoming Dynasty draft and she wants to make sure she can land a RB to shore up her area of needCheersNEW YORK -- Suspended Ohio State running back Maurice Clarett was ruled eligible for the NFL draft Thursday by a federal judge who concluded that the league's rule violates antitrust laws.U.S. District Judge Shira A. Scheindlin ordered the NFL to let Clarett enter April's draft.Clarett played just one season at Ohio State, leading the Buckeyes to the 2002 national championship. He was barred from playing in the 2003 season for accepting improper benefits from a family friend and then lying about it to investigators.Clarett sued the NFL last summer to challenge the league rule that a player must be out of high school three years for draft eligibility. Thursday's ruling, if not successfully appealed, could allow teenage football stars to take advantage of the marketing and business opportunities available to young athletes in other sports.The league had argued that Clarett should not be eligible because its rule resulted from a collective bargaining agreement with the players and is immune from antitrust scrutiny. The NFL also argued that its rule is reasonable and that Clarett cannot bring such a lawsuit."While, ordinarily, the best offense is a good defense, none of these defenses hold the line," the judge wrote in a 70-page ruling.She said Clarett could bring the lawsuit because he was fighting a policy that excludes all players in his position from selling their services to the only viable buyer -- the NFL."The NFL has not justified Clarett's exclusion by demonstrating that the rule enhances competition. Indeed, Clarett has alleged the very type of injury -- a complete bar to entry into the market for this services -- that the antitrust laws are designed to prevent," she said.
Sure, we know that almost all high schoolers are undersized and not ready for the NFL. If a blue-chipper gets hold of an agent like Drew Rosenhaus, he might not listen to people who say that he's not ready. Who knows. Maybe there will be an unspoken agreement that keeps pre-college guys out of the draft. Once one guy bypasses college for the draft, others will follow. Then we have issues like eligibility and roster size to deal with.They don't HAVE to do anything. As long as the NFL keeps its existing roster requirements, this won't get out of hand. The difference between the NBA and the NFL is physical development. The vast majority of blue chip football prospects coming out of high school are no way, shape or form physically developed enough to have a presence in the NFL. And you simply don't know how a player is going to develop until he puts the weight on. For example, it's not uncommon for a blue chip defensive line prospect to weigh 235-240 coming out of high school...if he doesn't put on a significant amount of weight chances are he's either a) not going to pan out or b) must be converted to linebackers, safety, etc...Cheers
I think it's the fall of NCAA football. This will bring a newfound form of parity to college football. Teams like Miami will no longer have a stockpile of 1st round NFL picks. It'll bring the level of play in college football down, as it has done with college b-ball.Mr.Happy Posted on Feb 5 2004, 10:56 AM-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The fall of the NFL begins. God I hope I'm wrong.
Fully agree here. However, its hard to figure how NFL teams will be able to draft a highschooler, pay the draft slotting under the NFLPA bargaining agreement, and not create a salary cap mess when the majority of these kids will likely fulfill their contracts (if at all) on a practice squad or minor league team, as you mention, and that's assuming there is even a way to get them to the practice squad without first cutting them outright. Seems like just an addition to the "dead money" concept. Also, the NFLPA will be hesitant to give NFL teams more flexibility in contract negotiations with young players, as this would obviously impact negotiations for all players. Should be interesting to see how this develops, but what a mess.I'm only speculating here, but if the NFL has to admit anyone who's graduated high school, they're going to have to start a minor league and stop depending on the colleges to season their young players.
Why would parity be the "fall" of the NCAA? Isn't parity a GOOD thing?Personally, I'm sick of the same 10 schools being the pre-season favorites every year. I'm also sick of "student-athletes" who are nothing of the kind.If there is a dramatic change to NCAA football, it will be for the better.I think it's the fall of NCAA football. This will bring a newfound form of parity to college football. Teams like Miami will no longer have a stockpile of 1st round NFL picks. It'll bring the level of play in college football down, as it has done with college b-ball.Mr.Happy Posted on Feb 5 2004, 10:56 AM-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The fall of the NFL begins. God I hope I'm wrong.
Jason:Agreed, to a point. But there are plenty of 270 - 300 pounders in high school too that play the line. Who says they aren't ready to go now?For example, it's not uncommon for a blue chip defensive line prospect to weigh 235-240 coming out of high school...if he doesn't put on a significant amount of weight chances are he's either a) not going to pan out or b) must be converted to linebackers, safety, etc...
I agree.Why should it be a college can make millions from the players, but the players cannot make $1?Screw the NCAA. I hope they lose out for ruining the college game with all their BS rules.Why would parity be the "fall" of the NCAA? Isn't parity a GOOD thing?Personally, I'm sick of the same 10 schools being the pre-season favorites every year. I'm also sick of "student-athletes" who are nothing of the kind.If there is a dramatic change to NCAA football, it will be for the better.I think it's the fall of NCAA football. This will bring a newfound form of parity to college football. Teams like Miami will no longer have a stockpile of 1st round NFL picks. It'll bring the level of play in college football down, as it has done with college b-ball.Mr.Happy Posted on Feb 5 2004, 10:56 AM-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The fall of the NFL begins. God I hope I'm wrong.
maturity.Physical maturity doesn't just mean size.Jason:Agreed, to a point. But there are plenty of 270 - 300 pounders in high school too that play the line. Who says they aren't ready to go now?For example, it's not uncommon for a blue chip defensive line prospect to weigh 235-240 coming out of high school...if he doesn't put on a significant amount of weight chances are he's either a) not going to pan out or b) must be converted to linebackers, safety, etc...![]()
What I meant was the level of play in NCAA will decline. Now, in NCAA B-ball, average players leave after 3 yrs, stars after 2 yrs, and superstars play one year in college, if at all.Without superstar college football players, college football fans will have to root for their team, rather than the star players on the team. Maybe that's not a bad thing, just a change.Why would parity be the "fall" of the NCAA? Isn't parity a GOOD thing?Personally, I'm sick of the same 10 schools being the pre-season favorites every year. I'm also sick of "student-athletes" who are nothing of the kind.If there is a dramatic change to NCAA football, it will be for the better.I think it's the fall of NCAA football. This will bring a newfound form of parity to college football. Teams like Miami will no longer have a stockpile of 1st round NFL picks. It'll bring the level of play in college football down, as it has done with college b-ball.Mr.Happy Posted on Feb 5 2004, 10:56 AM-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The fall of the NFL begins. God I hope I'm wrong.
I agree.Why should it be a college can make millions from the players, but the players cannot make $1?Screw the NCAA. I hope they lose out for ruining the college game with all their BS rules.Why would parity be the "fall" of the NCAA? Isn't parity a GOOD thing?Personally, I'm sick of the same 10 schools being the pre-season favorites every year. I'm also sick of "student-athletes" who are nothing of the kind.If there is a dramatic change to NCAA football, it will be for the better.I think it's the fall of NCAA football. This will bring a newfound form of parity to college football. Teams like Miami will no longer have a stockpile of 1st round NFL picks. It'll bring the level of play in college football down, as it has done with college b-ball.Mr.Happy Posted on Feb 5 2004, 10:56 AM-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The fall of the NFL begins. God I hope I'm wrong.
I don't care how big a high schooler is, when it comes to pushing around a grown man it ain't going to happen. I'll even bet a physical NFL corner such as Ty Law can drop a blue chip high school lineman with no problem. Like beef said, it's the physical maturity.Jason:Agreed, to a point. But there are plenty of 270 - 300 pounders in high school too that play the line. Who says they aren't ready to go now?For example, it's not uncommon for a blue chip defensive line prospect to weigh 235-240 coming out of high school...if he doesn't put on a significant amount of weight chances are he's either a) not going to pan out or b) must be converted to linebackers, safety, etc...![]()
I'm not so sure. Compare it to the NBA. Guys like L. James and A. Stoudamire seem to do o.k. with pushing around other pros in the paint.I don't care how big a high schooler is, when it comes to pushing around a grown man it ain't going to happen. I'll even bet a physical NFL corner such as Ty Law can drop a blue chip high school lineman with no problem. Like beef said, it's the physical maturity.
Yeh, and how have Tyson Chandler and Eddy Curry done? Its strange, but after 4 years in the pros they are just starting to play like a real NBA player. Its almost like they should have spent the last 4 years learning the game somewhere...Regardless, football is a completely different animal. NBA players can perform well skinny, but a lot of young guys dont really take the next step until theyve put on a little meat. You show up light in the NFL and you're gonna get hurt. Bad. RBs and WRs might get away with it, occasionally. Anybody else would be making a huge mistake.I'm not so sure. Compare it to the NBA. Guys like L. James and A. Stoudamire seem to do o.k. with pushing around other pros in the paint.
If you want evidence of whether it's different from the NBA, just think about freshmen classes. While it's fine and dandy for people like Dean Smith to say "no freshmen should be allowed to declare", it's disingenuous because oftentimes freshmen are the best players in the country.It's quite common for a freshmen to start at the very best of programs. Just last year a freshmen lead his team to the NCAA title while a high school kid was the most sought after pro prospect. Why? Because they could already play the game at the very highest of levels. There's nothing more for LeBron James or 'Melo Anthony to accomplish outside the pros, they're physically developed and dominate against collegiate competition. But in the NCAA, you would be hard pressed to find many true (or even redshirt) freshmen who make a MAJOR impact on their team, which would be required to get themselves on the NFL draft board.Will it change things? Sure, there will be a few blue chip redshirt sophomores who come out that would've otherwise returned, but I see no problem with that at all.Cheersmaturity.Physical maturity doesn't just mean size.Jason:Agreed, to a point. But there are plenty of 270 - 300 pounders in high school too that play the line. Who says they aren't ready to go now?For example, it's not uncommon for a blue chip defensive line prospect to weigh 235-240 coming out of high school...if he doesn't put on a significant amount of weight chances are he's either a) not going to pan out or b) must be converted to linebackers, safety, etc...![]()
1) 6-1 - 230 ..... Smith was 6-2 - 2122) guestimate would be a 4.5-4.63) he'd have to work on this aspect of his gameMy 2 knocks on Clarett are:1) Durability - He's never played a full season AT ANY LEVEL without missing time because of various injuries.2) Character - Lying to cops, cheating in school, associating with a gambler .... wouldn't touch him with a 10 foot pole.He's a kid that needs a good voice in his life that'll put him on the straight an narrow.1 How big is Maurice Clarett? Can his body mature to take the pounding of an everydown back? I remember Robert Smith (Vikings) was similar to Clarett and it took him about 5 years to develop into the back we remember him as.2 How fast is Maurice Clarett? Does he have 4.4 speed like Robert Smith to make up for his smallish frame?3 How raw is his pass blocking and reading blitz packages? Playing less than 1 full season of college football makes me wonder how long it will take him to fulfill the running back position in passing downs.
Big difference here. Courts are extremely reluctant to keep someone from working and the laws that apply to Clarrett/the NFL are the same ones that apply to everyone else. As a result, no court is going to prevent someone from being able to work as long as they meet the restrictions imposed by other laws (i.e. child labor, etc.).The NFL's worst (?) nightmare has come true. I don't care how many appeals there are, I don't see any judge overturning this ruling. This isn't the only issue the NFL has under anti-trust, I'm sure.What's next? Someone challenging states rules that say you can't drink until you are 21?![]()
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THey do get a free education that they otherwise wouldn't get--and that is more valuable to 99.9% of them then the NFL (since they won't make it).I agree.Why should it be a college can make millions from the players, but the players cannot make $1?Screw the NCAA. I hope they lose out for ruining the college game with all their BS rules.Why would parity be the "fall" of the NCAA? Isn't parity a GOOD thing?Personally, I'm sick of the same 10 schools being the pre-season favorites every year. I'm also sick of "student-athletes" who are nothing of the kind.If there is a dramatic change to NCAA football, it will be for the better.I think it's the fall of NCAA football. This will bring a newfound form of parity to college football. Teams like Miami will no longer have a stockpile of 1st round NFL picks. It'll bring the level of play in college football down, as it has done with college b-ball.Mr.Happy Posted on Feb 5 2004, 10:56 AM-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The fall of the NFL begins. God I hope I'm wrong.
Here's a thought:What happens when an 18 year old gets drafted in the 7th round and gets offered a 10 year (non-guaranteed of course) deal for very little money? He can decline it and reenter the draft pool, but by being drafted he can't then go to college, so he's forced to sit out of football for a year. And after that, he's going to IMPROVE his draft position? His only other choice would be to sign an unfair contract and lock himself into a bad situation. What agent is going to encourage his client to do that?I think the bubble would burst VERY quickly on high school kids going to the NFL, if that were to ever happen in the first place. The ONLY current college player that I think might have been able to make the jump would be Vincent Young. Some team could have rostered him as a 4th QB based on his physical skills alone, developing him looooong term. But being 300 pounds isn't going to get you drafted out of high school...HERD