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Cleveland Browns (5 Viewers)

ghostguy123 said:
Soul, work your magic, do what you gotta do, have a telegram sent to the Giant's GM's front door.  Signing telegram, give him trade ideas.  Let's go.  Hurry up.  
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If he worked his magic, you would trade trade Barkley (1.4) for OBJ and he'd promptly getting suspended for the next 2 years.

 
Since we're seeing an influx of either new CLE fans, or non-CLE fans who want to sell their wares - I thought it might be nice to clue you in on which CLE beat writers to ignore on your quest for knowledge and team news.  First on my list, Tony Grossi.  His takes are pretty horrible, vague, and non-sensical.  

Exhibit A:

Hue Jackson on Baker Mayfield: I feel like he's a Pied Piper of Oklahoma football. When he walked into the bldg, he made this sound - kind of went hee hee -- & all the players in the bldg started going hee hee and here we go. Most unbelievable thing I've ever seen. .

- @TonyGrossi 9:23am March 27th, 2018
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What in the bloody hell is this guy going on about?  How is it relevant?  Did this occur at OU pro-day?  Or was it when he walked into Berea?  Why is this the chosen comment from the HC?  There was no other viable content to produce?  Did he not ask the HC more important questions?  It's a stupid comment by Hue (which most of us now expect to see/hear from him), but even stupider by Grossi to report as news.  Just idiotic.

 
BassNBrew said:
Fly is the George Castanza of prognostication.
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:lmao:  Probably so, but I give him his due as he's also got to be the biggest optimist for the team in this thread.

 
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Peak said:
Tradewinds are whirling around CLE...

Per Chad Forbes: Heard from multiple folks after #Browns go QB 1st Overall and Chubb/Barkley/Denzel 4th Overall... They'll trade back into Rd1 with #Seahawks. Rumors this time of Yr are everywhere, but I've been hearing this one since before combine... Seahawks only pick in Top 120 is 18th.
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Pick 18 should represent the back half of tier 2, so this has some validity. Just depends on what happens with 4 and who slips to 18. The pool of defenders certainly appears more intriguing there though. 

 
https://twitter.com/SigmundBloom/status/979701666206375936

Sigmund Bloom‏ @SigmundBloom FollowFollow @SigmundBloom

Sigmund Bloom Retweeted FL Football Insiders

“Klemko and SI, say that Buffalo meeting with Mayfield upcoming will be at least the fourth time, that they have done so. A source close to Bills management and told F.F.I. after Mayfield’s pro day, they are very much going to be a “buyer” and try to trade into the top 5”

Sigmund Bloom added,

FL Football Insiders @Real_FFI

Looking more like QB Baker Mayfield will go before #Dolphins 11th pick. The latest: https://www.floridafootballinsiders.com/dolphins/looking-more-like-baker-mayfield-will-be-gone-in-top-10-of-draft/ …

5:47 AM - 30 Mar 2018 from Austin, TX

 
travdogg said:
Earl Thomas?
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The 'rumor' is that we're trading-up with Seattle from the 2nd round to pick #18 of the 1st round not that we're after Earl Thomas after trading for Damarious Randall and have moved him to FS.

I don't think you even contemplate that sort of a move unless you are certain the player you want will be available.

The big 'holes' on the team outside of QB that we will fill with the top pick are, RB, OLT, CB, 3-tech pass rushing DT.

  • Lots of talk about us taking Denzel Ward with the #4 pick before his low weight was reported.
  • We've got Coleman at OLT but it sure would be nice to have someone other than Spencer Drango waiting in hte wings. 
  • Dorsey tends to take and find really good RBs late in the draft and as undrafted free agents. 
  • Interesting that we are one of two teams that have a meeting planned with DT Maurice Hurst.
If we wind up trading down with Buffalo we'd get their two-first round picks plus at least a 2nd which would change everything but if things stand as they are today then consider.

The 18th pick is worth 900 points and our 33rd pick is worth 580 and our #64 pick is worth 270 points which is not quite enough to make the deal so the deal might be contingent on us trading down with Buffalo and getting one of their 2nd round picks (they hold the 53rd pick worth 380 points and the 556th pick worth 340 points).

  • Dorsey has historically valued the OLT position taking Fisher with the top pick. 
  • He has a history of finding 'really-good' CBs later in the first round, i.e. Marcus Peters.
  • He took DT Poe early in the 1st round and he's got a meeting scheduled with Mo Hurst.
I don't know where he'd be leaning, he could even go pass rusher if he is targeting one specific player and you make that sort of move if you have one guy in mind but it would seem to me that we'd have to make a deal with Buffalo before the values would work out.

 
I really, honestly, truly, have no idea how people are absoltuely SCREAMING to take Chubb at 4. 

We'd be absolute morons to pass on him, imo. 

It's a gift from the heavens, and a pick that can transform a franchise.

Myles n Chubb. Ludicrous.

 
Soulfly3 said:
I really, honestly, truly, have no idea how people are absoltuely SCREAMING to take Chubb at 4. 

We'd be absolute morons to pass on him, imo. 

It's a gift from the heavens, and a pick that can transform a franchise.

Myles n Chubb. Ludicrous.
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You use more superfluous words in a post than anyone I've ever read

Carry on

 
Soulfly3 said:
I really, honestly, truly, have no idea how people are absoltuely SCREAMING to take Chubb at 4. 

We'd be absolute morons to pass on him, imo. 

It's a gift from the heavens, and a pick that can transform a franchise.

Myles n Chubb. Ludicrous.
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I think there is some fair question as to whether Chubb is worthy of that high of a pick. He got owned by McGlinchey when he faced him, and has questions about his pass rushing ability. He plays the run better than the pass for sure. He's a great all around player, but he'll likely never be a big sack guy. So it depends how much you value the rest of the package, and some teams don't value it all too highly. He almost might be a better 3-4 end in my opinion. He's a bull rusher, not a turn the corner type. 

I'm in the minority to be sure, but I think he's one of the strongest bust candidates at the top of the draft.

 
travdogg said:
I think there is some fair question as to whether Chubb is worthy of that high of a pick. He got owned by McGlinchey when he faced him, and has questions about his pass rushing ability. He plays the run better than the pass for sure. He's a great all around player, but he'll likely never be a big sack guy. So it depends how much you value the rest of the package, and some teams don't value it all too highly. He almost might be a better 3-4 end in my opinion. He's a bull rusher, not a turn the corner type. 

I'm in the minority to be sure, but I think he's one of the strongest bust candidates at the top of the draft.
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you have no clue what you are talking about here

 
The Browns defensive end snap counts from last year.

  • Carl Nassib DE 643 - 60.21%
  • Myles Garrett DE 518 - 48.5%
  • Emmanuel Ogbah DE 462 - 43.26%
  • Nate Orchard DE 431 - 40.36%
  • Tyrone Holmes DE,LB 36 - 3.37%
In addition to bringing everyone back the Browns have signed 26 year old Bengal free agent DE Chris Smith to a three year contract

.https://bengalswire.usatoday.com/2018/03/13/bengals-chris-smith-sign-deal-browns/

Though the Cincinnati Bengals wanted him back in some fashion, defensive end Chris Smith intends to sign a three-year deal with the Cleveland Browns.

Smith, who joined the Bengals last season via trade, tallied three sacks while flashing versatility, prompting the team to want him back.

Instead, Smith will chase a big contract and perhaps more playing time with Hue Jackson and the Browns, as reported by Fox Sports’ Peter Schrager:
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The Browns have used last years #1 pick on Myles Garrett, and two years ago they used their 2nd round pick on Emmanuel Ogbah and 3rd round pick on Nassib in addition to signing 26 year old Chris Smith to a three year deal.

Smith is going to get snaps, Garrett and Ogbah only played together for 3 games last year due to injuries so they are scheduled for a much greater work load.  Greg Williams didn't give Nassib snaps because he doesn't like him.

So the Browns are going to blow the #4 pick in this year's draft on a guy will see less than half of the available defensive snaps this year after spending three high picks on DEs over the past two years and after giving a three year deal to a 26 year old free agent?  

Oh yeah, they lost their best CB who played 89% of the defensive snaps and of the three CBs they've signed in free agency the contracts are basically one-year prove-it deals.  Almost tailor made free agent veteran contracts so that a team can draft a rookie and provide enough time for them to get up to speed.

 
Bracie Smathers said:
The Browns defensive end snap counts from last year.

  • Carl Nassib DE 643 - 60.21%
  • Myles Garrett DE 518 - 48.5%
  • Emmanuel Ogbah DE 462 - 43.26%
  • Nate Orchard DE 431 - 40.36%
  • Tyrone Holmes DE,LB 36 - 3.37%
In addition to bringing everyone back the Browns have signed 26 year old Bengal free agent DE Chris Smith to a three year contract

.https://bengalswire.usatoday.com/2018/03/13/bengals-chris-smith-sign-deal-browns/

The Browns have used last years #1 pick on Myles Garrett, and two years ago they used their 2nd round pick on Emmanuel Ogbah and 3rd round pick on Nassib in addition to signing 26 year old Chris Smith to a three year deal.

Smith is going to get snaps, Garrett and Ogbah only played together for 3 games last year due to injuries so they are scheduled for a much greater work load.  Greg Williams didn't give Nassib snaps because he doesn't like him.

So the Browns are going to blow the #4 pick in this year's draft on a guy will see less than half of the available defensive snaps this year after spending three high picks on DEs over the past two years and after giving a three year deal to a 26 year old free agent?  

Oh yeah, they lost their best CB who played 89% of the defensive snaps and of the three CBs they've signed in free agency the contracts are basically one-year prove-it deals.  Almost tailor made free agent veteran contracts so that a team can draft a rookie and provide enough time for them to get up to speed.
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Outstanding analysis as always Bracie :thumbup:

 
Bracie Smathers said:
The Browns defensive end snap counts from last year.

  • Carl Nassib DE 643 - 60.21%
  • Myles Garrett DE 518 - 48.5%
  • Emmanuel Ogbah DE 462 - 43.26%
  • Nate Orchard DE 431 - 40.36%
  • Tyrone Holmes DE,LB 36 - 3.37%
In addition to bringing everyone back the Browns have signed 26 year old Bengal free agent DE Chris Smith to a three year contract

.https://bengalswire.usatoday.com/2018/03/13/bengals-chris-smith-sign-deal-browns/

The Browns have used last years #1 pick on Myles Garrett, and two years ago they used their 2nd round pick on Emmanuel Ogbah and 3rd round pick on Nassib in addition to signing 26 year old Chris Smith to a three year deal.

Smith is going to get snaps, Garrett and Ogbah only played together for 3 games last year due to injuries so they are scheduled for a much greater work load.  Greg Williams didn't give Nassib snaps because he doesn't like him.

So the Browns are going to blow the #4 pick in this year's draft on a guy will see less than half of the available defensive snaps this year after spending three high picks on DEs over the past two years and after giving a three year deal to a 26 year old free agent?  

Oh yeah, they lost their best CB who played 89% of the defensive snaps and of the three CBs they've signed in free agency the contracts are basically one-year prove-it deals.  Almost tailor made free agent veteran contracts so that a team can draft a rookie and provide enough time for them to get up to speed.
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You're kidding, right?  

 
Nassib and Smith are no more than rotational guys. Ogbah was playing pretty well before getting hurt but isn't on Chubb's level. He's probably a guy you rotate in and out as well.

All of them were members of an 0-16 team and none of them are reasons to not draft Chubb.

 
Andy Dufresne said:
Nassib and Smith are no more than rotational guys. Ogbah was playing pretty well before getting hurt but isn't on Chubb's level. He's probably a guy you rotate in and out as well.

All of them were members of an 0-16 team and none of them are reasons to not draft Chubb.
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For shizzle and when is it ever a bad thing to have an abundance of cheap dlineman?  The eagles just won a Super Bowl with them, the broncos won one, the panthers made on and the giants won 2 with that philosophy.  It works.  A nasty defense and a mean defensive line is key to winning.  

 
Bracie Smathers said:
The 'rumor' is that we're trading-up with Seattle from the 2nd round to pick #18 of the 1st round not that we're after Earl Thomas after trading for Damarious Randall and have moved him to FS.

I don't think you even contemplate that sort of a move unless you are certain the player you want will be available.

The big 'holes' on the team outside of QB that we will fill with the top pick are, RB, OLT, CB, 3-tech pass rushing DT.

  • Lots of talk about us taking Denzel Ward with the #4 pick before his low weight was reported.
  • We've got Coleman at OLT but it sure would be nice to have someone other than Spencer Drango waiting in hte wings. 
  • Dorsey tends to take and find really good RBs late in the draft and as undrafted free agents. 
  • Interesting that we are one of two teams that have a meeting planned with DT Maurice Hurst.
If we wind up trading down with Buffalo we'd get their two-first round picks plus at least a 2nd which would change everything but if things stand as they are today then consider.

The 18th pick is worth 900 points and our 33rd pick is worth 580 and our #64 pick is worth 270 points which is not quite enough to make the deal so the deal might be contingent on us trading down with Buffalo and getting one of their 2nd round picks (they hold the 53rd pick worth 380 points and the 556th pick worth 340 points).

  • Dorsey has historically valued the OLT position taking Fisher with the top pick. 
  • He has a history of finding 'really-good' CBs later in the first round, i.e. Marcus Peters.
  • He took DT Poe early in the 1st round and he's got a meeting scheduled with Mo Hurst.
I don't know where he'd be leaning, he could even go pass rusher if he is targeting one specific player and you make that sort of move if you have one guy in mind but it would seem to me that we'd have to make a deal with Buffalo before the values would work out.
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McGlinchey?

 
Peak said:
You're kidding, right?  
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Are you?  

I've heard nothing other than 'we gotta have him dude' hyperbole when he won't be starting over Ogbah no matter what some non-Browns fans think. 

The three games that Garrett and Ogbah played together they had a combined 6 sacks. 

We had 34 sacks on the year, when those two guys playing together had over 17% of team sacks in the three games they played together.  

What the actual F is your argument to take him.  I mean how many snaps do you envision the #4 pick of the draft to get?  Who are you going to sit?

 
Bracie Smathers said:
Are you?  

I've heard nothing other than 'we gotta have him dude' hyperbole when he won't be starting over Ogbah no matter what some non-Browns fans think. 

The three games that Garrett and Ogbah played together they had a combined 6 sacks. 

We had 34 sacks on the year, when those two guys playing together had over 17% of team sacks in the three games they played together.  

What the actual F is your argument to take him.  I mean how many snaps do you envision the #4 pick of the draft to get?  Who are you going to sit?
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read my post above. why not have a cheap bad ### dline?  its the cornerstone of championship teams

 
pantherclub said:
For shizzle and when is it ever a bad thing to have an abundance of cheap dlineman?  The eagles just won a Super Bowl with them, the broncos won one, the panthers made on and the giants won 2 with that philosophy.  It works.  A nasty defense and a mean defensive line is key to winning.  
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You have any clue who Aquib Talib is?

How about Chris Harris?

Two Pro Bowl CBs.

The Browns lost their best CB and signed three FA CBs to what amount to one-year prove it deals.  

Pass rush works when you have solid CBs and forcing game scripts to allow the pass rush to be aggressive.  

Lack of cover corners negates pass rush.

What is your argument again?  I see nothing.

 
Bracie Smathers said:
You have any clue who Aquib Talib is?

How about Chris Harris?

Two Pro Bowl CBs.

The Browns lost their best CB and signed three FA CBs to what amount to one-year prove it deals.  

Pass rush works when you have solid CBs and forcing game scripts to allow the pass rush to be aggressive.  

Lack of cover corners negates pass rush.

What is your argument again?  I see nothing.
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You have it backwards here but it just doesnt matter as you are going to play the fool and not try and understand.  Hopefully for your franchise they are smarter than you and if Chubb is there at 4 they pick him and set your defense up for years.   32 out of 32 teams in the NFL would rather have a dominant dline over a great secondary. 

 
I agree that you start with pass rush over coverage. Too many advantages for receivers to run free. A good push will always be more disruptive to an offense than good cover guys. You allow any NFL QB to get to their 3rd/4th reads someone will be open. “Everyone has a plan until you get punched in the mouth” (Iron Mike). The fear of physical harm always trumps nobody open. 

 
pantherclub said:
You have it backwards here but it just doesnt matter as you are going to play the fool and not try and understand.  Hopefully for your franchise they are smarter than you and if Chubb is there at 4 they pick him and set your defense up for years.   32 out of 32 teams in the NFL would rather have a dominant dline over a great secondary. 
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Not only did the Broncos have Aqib and Harris, they valued their shut-down CBs so much that they went out and drafted Robey in the first round even though they already had two Pro Bowl corners. 

You can get three CBs on the field at the same time because teams run so many three and four wide sets.

You can't get three DEs on the field unless you get a game script that allows it, i.e, third and long.  You don't get teams into third and long if you can't cover so you have it backwards.

 
Bracie Smathers said:
Not only did the Broncos have Aqib and Harris, they valued their shut-down CBs so much that they went out and drafted Robey in the first round even though they already had two Pro Bowl corners. 

You can get three CBs on the field at the same time because teams run so many three and four wide sets.

You can't get three DEs on the field unless you get a game script that allows it, i.e, third and long.  You don't get teams into third and long if you can't cover so you have it backwards.
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Uh okay dude, you are so wrong here its not even worth arguing. 

 
I rather trade down from 4 than take either Chubb or Barkley.  Depending how far we drop we might just get one of them anyway, and even if we don't, thats ok.

Is it possible to turn pick 4 into one late 1st this year and THREE extra 2019 1sts?  If we can make that happen, sign me up.  I want that.  No player, and I mean NO player in this draft is worth more than that other than taking a QB, and even that guy might not be worth that much.  

If we get a nice initial trade (hello Bills) we can do it.  

dooooooooooooo it

doooooooooooo it

 
ghostguy123 said:
I rather trade down from 4 than take either Chubb or Barkley.  Depending how far we drop we might just get one of them anyway, and even if we don't, thats ok.
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I was originally in the take Chubb club till I saw he's nowhere near as good as Garrett and is equal to Ogbah and that we would not be able to get all three on the field unless the game script allowed it and that we really need a #1 CB than a #3 part-time DE.

We played cover-2 with an angel all year because we lacked cover corners and still do.  

Lack of cover corners negates a pass rush.  

Lack of cover corners forces cover-2 with deep safeties negating the big-play ability of a natural box safety like Jabril Peppers.

Remember when Greg Williams had Danny Shelton drop in coverage to 'try' and cover the Texans TEs?  We got so far behind in that game soo early that we had virtually zero pass rush game scripts.

The top CB is Denzel Ward, it would be a waste to draft him at #4.  

Chubb would be a good pick if we had CBs but we don't.

If we trade down we have a good shot at either, Minka, Derwin, or Denzel dropping to the #12 pick.

I mean its not like we play in a division where we play Antonio Brown and AJ Green and need a top flight #1 cover corner. 

 
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