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Cleveland Browns (7 Viewers)

I personally think that Duke Johnson hasn't been given a fair shot at carrying the majority of the load.
He is exceptional as a receiving back and is great making defenders miss.  I think they still want a big back and that they can take their pick in the 2nd/3rd rounds. 

Duke will still get his but I don't see him as the bell-cow.

 
I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and say you're smart enough to figure it out.

If you read what I said, you'd see I was just trying let you know why you're drawing heat here - do with it what you may.
This isn't the first thread he's been called a troll in or massacred.  And he rarely posts in the GB thread.  Trolls don't piss in their own backyards.

No wonder the admins have been lurking, and posting, in here for the past month or two.

 
I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and say you're smart enough to figure it out.

If you read what I said, you'd see I was just trying let you know why you're drawing heat here - do with it what you may.
Oh I can figure it out just fine: 

If I give my opinion and i don't comment on the poor showing of the team (I.E. ignore the elephant in the room), it's not Trolling. For example, If I say "why wouldn't Cousins want to sign with the browns, they are a great team",! 

If I give my opinion, including the REALITY of the teams poor history then I'm a "Troll",. For example, "yeah I don't think Cousins who will have many other options would go to a team with weak talent and a poor history of success".

Not Troll=Not accepting reality. got it. 

 
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This isn't the first thread he's been called a troll in or massacred.  And he rarely posts in the GB thread.  Trolls don't piss in their own backyards.

No wonder the admins have been lurking, and posting, in here for the past month or two.
Well hopefully they get rid of him for good. When all you do is constantly troll, you offer nothing positive to the board. In fact, it drives good posters away. If he's been told before and still insists on this trolling, he's a one trick pony and should be gone.

 
This isn't the first thread he's been called a troll in or massacred.  And he rarely posts in the GB thread.  Trolls don't piss in their own backyards.

No wonder the admins have been lurking, and posting, in here for the past month or two.
Not true I do post in the GB thread when there is news. There is more activity here at the moment, so I'm looking for info and sharing my OPINION. 

 
you offer nothing positive to the board.
Ahhh so only POSITIVE comments are allowed here.  I seem to remember places like GERMAN and RUSSIA that made sure to get rid of people who did not agree with the party line. Did I get transported to those places?  :shock:

I posted several valid comments that I don't think your going to get your dream free agents to come to CLEVELAND. The facts bear me out. When was the last high quality free agent that came to CLE? Funny I cannot remember one. But I'm the bad guy for speaking the truth? If I'm wrong, please tell me the last BLUE CHIP FREE AGENT who signed with the BROWNS. You can't do it can you?

Your letting your frustration at the team color the fact that I am speaking the truth, but you don't like it so I become the problem. 

 
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Ahhh so only POSITIVE comments are allowed here.  I seem to remember places like GERMAN and RUSSIA that made sure to get rid of people who did not agree with the party line. Did I get transported to those places?  :shock:

I posted several valid comments that I don't think your going to get your dream free agents to come to CLEVELAND. The facts bear me out. When was the last high quality free agent that came to CLE? Funny I cannot remember one. But I'm the bad guy for speaking the truth? If I'm wrong, please tell me the last BLUE CHIP FREE AGENT who signed with the BROWNS. You can't do it can you?

Your letting your frustration at the team color the fact that I am speaking the truth, but you don't like it so I become the problem. 
Psst, I'll let you in on a couple of secrets. First off, it's "You're". That's fifth grade stuff. Secondly, I'm an Eagles fan. Cleveland's lack of success causes me zero frustration. I'm a football fan and joined an interesting conversation. I happen to feel Cleveland is in a good position to make strides toward improving. And wanted to contribute my thoughts on the matter. That's how it's done.  Now, if you felt the need to pop into another team's thread and voice your negative opinion (which you have the right to do), you could have done it this way..."Getting Cousins might be tough because of the Brown's lack of success recently. He'll probably choose to sign with a contender". 

Instead, you chose to go this route... "Bwahahaha, why would any free agent come to Cleveland? So they could improve to 3 wins? They suck. No way the Browns are signing anyone unless they're washed up and close to retirement or simply stupid". 

Can you see the difference?  I hope you take the time that you're suspended to mull this over so that you can actually contribute to the board when you return. 

 
He has proven durable..I don't think he has missed a game....but is that because he plays limited snaps?
I think they are being too "old school" with the position and need to give Johnson more carries even if he is a little on the smaller side. He is a playmaker. Crowell is just a thumper, they need playmakers. 

 
He has proven durable..I don't think he has missed a game....but is that because he plays limited snaps?
He seems to get dinged up a lot in-game, but while I'd love to see him get a shot to be the lead guy it isn't going to happen.  Dorsey has already gone on record with the dreaded situational 3rd down back talk.

 
Ahhhhh so I need to sugar coat the facts so no one get's upset. I'd hate to make anyone feel bad by speaking the truth and using pesky facts. So sorry my little snowflakes..here is a nice participation trophy, does that make it better? This is what's wrong with recent generations. Oh brother. 
This is perfect.  On so many levels.

 
This is perfect.  On so many levels.
Yes a perfect example of whats wrong with AMERICA today. One cannot do anything that could possibly upset anyone or they get muzzled and treated poorly. A rose is a Rose, and a Dog is a Dog, and the truth is the truth. I'm sure I'll be suspended, but whatever. If speaking the truth without a bunch of PC feel good fluff makes me the bad guy after helping protect this country and it's freedom, that's sad. 

All you have to do is prove me wrong but you can't so you go to "Mommy" to make the "bad man" go away.  It does not change the truth, but it will make you feel better. 

 
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Why would aj mccarron sign there if he isnt going to be the unquestioned qb?? He probably thinks hes a starter....not that he actually is....

Browns gonna brown...signing him seems weirs
NFL FA QB pool has Kirk Cousins, the three Minnesota QBs are all FAs,  possibly Tyrod Taylor and I'm sure that others will become available when the music begins.  Then add in four first-round QBs into the mix.  

Where else is A.J. McCarron getting his chance to start with a coach and owner who obviously like him, where he'd get a two-year prove it starting contract?

 
Yes a perfect example of whats wrong with AMERICA today. One cannot do anything that could possibly upset anyone or they get muzzled and treated poorly. A rose is a Rose, and a Dog is a Dog, and the truth is the truth. I'm sure I'll be suspended, but whatever. If speaking the truth without a bunch of PC feel good fluff makes me the bad guy after helping protect this country and it's freedom, that's sad. 

All you have to do is prove me wrong but you can't so you go to "Mommy" to make the "bad man" go away. 
This is your response to a Browns fan...that expects the Browns to fail in 2018.

I lied in my last post.  This one's perfect.

 
NFL FA QB pool has Kirk Cousins, the three Minnesota QBs are all FAs,  possibly Tyrod Taylor and I'm sure that others will become available when the music begins.  Then add in four first-round QBs into the mix.  

Where else is A.J. McCarron getting his chance to start with a coach and owner who obviously like him, where he'd get a two-year prove it starting contract?
How about a place where QB's don't just go to Die? He would be better off going to another team and being a "bridge" QB then going to the Browns. 

 
How about a place where QB's don't just go to Die? He would be better off going to another team and being a "bridge" QB then going to the Browns. 
Where truth speaker.  Lets see if you actually can talk football for a change.  Where, who is going to offer him a chance to start and pay him starter money for two years?

 
Where truth speaker.  Lets see if you actually can talk football for a change.  Where, who is going to offer him a chance to start and pay him starter money for two years?
Let's see...

NY JETS

NY GIANTS (ELI can be beat out)

Broncos

Cardinals

Bills

Jaguars

Vikings

Those are just off the top of my head. There are also several places he could go be the back-up and have a better opportunity long term: 

Chargers

TEXANS

COLT

BALTIMORE

PITTSBURGH

The reality is that the Browns in the last 17 years have been a place where QB's go to see their careers die. Show me that I'm wrong. Better even as a back-up then going to CLE. 

 
Where else is A.J. McCarron getting his chance to start with a coach and owner who obviously like him, where he'd get a two-year prove it starting contract?
Cincinnati.  There's talk down here about them keeping AJ and kicking Dalton to the curb.  Some have called into the local sports talk shows with a scenario of trading Dalton to CLE "since they want a Bengals QB so badly".  I can see them keeping AJ, and if that happens there's no way I want to see Dalton in CLE.  

 
Let's see...

NY JETS

NY GIANTS (ELI can be beat out)

Broncos

Cardinals

Bills

Jaguars

Vikings

Those are just off the top of my head. There are also several places he could go be the back-up and have a better opportunity long term: 

Chargers

TEXANS

COLT

BALTIMORE

PITTSBURGH

The reality is that the Browns in the last 17 years have been a place where QB's go to see their careers die. Show me that I'm wrong. Better even as a back-up then going to CLE. 
You are saying that 7 teams would offer him the starting job for two years when their are four or five other FA QBs and a minimum of 4 first round QBs along with 3 others who will go off the board  in the first three rounds?  

Your football knowledge needs improvement if you actually think John Elway is going to offer A.J. the starting job and starting money or the Vikings would disregard their QBs or that the Jags would eat the $18 million contract of Blake Bortles and throw more money after AJ or...  I mean basically you...   You really don't know what you are talking about.

 
Crow is NOT a JAG. 

Man is a very capable back. Not a stud, but very capable. 

A decent passing game, and he's a 1000yd lock, imo. Loved him in college. 

 
I realize I'm being unfair here. I really should give the Browns their due they have so much to offer free agent players. Here is a summary: 

A. Great Weather 

B. A World class town with entertainment, the arts, glamor and glitz

C. Lot's of endorsement opportunities 

D. A huge market

E. Lot's of opportunities to get on prime time TV

F.  A team that is "one QB away"-I hear that a lot on this thread. 

G. Great ownership (It's not like the guy was accused of ripping off hard working Americans)

F. A franchise that sets new bars for success, and has a culture of success

Why any free agent would be a fool to pass all this up. Plus they have all that money to spend. It can work our great, just ask KENNY BRITT!

 
I realize I'm being unfair here. I really should give the Browns their due they have so much to offer free agent players. Here is a summary: 

A. Great Weather 

B. A World class town with entertainment, the arts, glamor and glitz

C. Lot's of endorsement opportunities 

D. A huge market

E. Lot's of opportunities to get on prime time TV

F.  A team that is "one QB away"-I hear that a lot on this thread. 

G. Great ownership (It's not like the guy was accused of ripping off hard working Americans)

F. A franchise that sets new bars for success, and has a culture of success

Why any free agent would be a fool to pass all this up. Plus they have all that money to spend. It can work our great, just ask KENNY BRITT!
Please just go away...you don't bring anything of football relevance to this thread and are very annoying. 

I am getting sick of sifting through your BS in order to read actual browns conversation and insight.

 
You are saying that 7 teams would offer him the starting job for two years when their are four or five other FA QBs and a minimum of 4 first round QBs along with 3 others who will go off the board  in the first three rounds?  

Your football knowledge needs improvement if you actually think John Elway is going to offer A.J. the starting job and starting money or the Vikings would disregard their QBs or that the Jags would eat the $18 million contract of Blake Bortles and throw more money after AJ or...  I mean basically you...   You really don't know what you are talking about.
Any agent worth his commission would tell a client with other options (especially a QB) to go someplace else. Free agent QBs who have gone to CLE have had like a 95% failure rate since 1999. Why would anyone go there is they had other options. A "starting job" is not necessarily the best move for your career. I know about 15 former Browns QB's who would agree. 

Let's look at a list of guys who would probably agree with me..

2017DeShone Kizer (15) / Kevin Hogan (1)

2016Robert Griffin III (5) / Josh McCown (3) / Cody Kessler (8)

2015Josh McCown (8) / Johnny Manziel (6) / Austin Davis (2)

2014Brian Hoyer (13) / Johnny Manziel (2) / Connor Shaw (1)

2013Jason Campbell (8) / Brandon Weeden (5) / Brian Hoyer (3)

2012Brandon Weeden (15) / Thad Lewis (1)

2011Colt McCoy (13) / Seneca Wallace (3)

2010Colt McCoy (8) / Jake Delhomme (4) / Seneca Wallace (4)

2009Brady Quinn (9) / Derek Anderson (7)

2008Derek Anderson (9) / Brady Quinn (3) / Ken Dorsey (3) / Bruce Gradkowski (1)

2007Derek Anderson (15) / Charlie Frye (1)

2006Charlie Frye (13) / Derek Anderson (3)

2005Trent Dilfer (11) / Charlie Frye (5)

2004Jeff Garcia (10) / Kelly Holcomb (2) / Luke McCown (4)

2003Kelly Holcomb (8) / Tim Couch (8)

2002Tim Couch (14) / Kelly Holcomb (2)

2001Tim Couch (16)

2000Doug Pederson (8) / Tim Couch (7) / Spergon Wynn (1)

1999Tim Couch (14) / Ty Detmer (2)

Yeah I don't think too many of these guys would be telling anyone they would go back to CLE if they could do it all over. 

 
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By this do you mean guys putting their head in the sand and keeping the "one QB away" dream alive? My list is accurate, sorry but that's the truth. CLE is CLE, that is not going to change. Why don't you go watch that puff piece "The draft" if you want a feel good Browns story. Your not going to get it on the field. 

 
RB is a finishing touch on a roster not a building block.  We should have our pick of RBs in 2nd and 3rd round.
Saw this on another site and thought it applies to this statement.  There appears to be a myth that successful RBs can be found later in the draft - and that those later round picks have just as much of a chance to be successful as the earlier rounds.  This guy looked at all RBs selected since the 2007 draft and rated them based on performance (Top20 at least once = "Flash", more than once = "Reliable", everyone else = "No Show".  He broke this down by rounds and what he found was a large drop off in talent at the RB position after the early rounds.  Note, his findings did not include UDFA RBs as there are so many misses that the few "gems" weren't worth the digging.  For every Arian Foster there are 50 RBs who never make it off the practice squads.

His results:

First Round: 22 draftees- 13 Reliable (60%) - 4 Flash (18%) - 5 No-Show (22%).  Of the "Reliable" group - probably half qualify as *extremely* reliable... Peterson, Lynch, Stewart, Chris Johnson, Gurley, Zeke.

Second: 29 draftees - 7 Reliable (24%) - 1 Flash (3%) - 21 No-Show (76%).  Of the "Reliable" group five were *extremely* reliable... Forte, Rice, McCoy, Bell, Lacy, and Jeremy Hill.

Third: 29 draftees - 2 Reliable (6%) - 7 Flash (24%) - 20 No-Show (70%). Both the reliable guys were *extremely* - Jamal Charles and DeMarco Murray. To be fair to Kareem Hunt, he's only had one season, so "Flash" may not be his status in a year.

Fourth: 35 draftees - 2 Reliable (5%) - 1 Flash (3%) - 32 No-Show (92%). Again, Both the reliable guys were *extremely* - Lamar Miller and DeVonta Freeman.

Fifth: 30 draftees - 2 Reliable (7%)  - 3 Flash (10%) - 25 No-Show (83%). The reliable guys may prove extremely in time... Jay Ajayi and Jordan Howard.

Sixth: 35 draftees - 2 Reliable (5%) - 1 Flash (3%) - 32 No-Show (92%).  Alfred Morris was the only *extremely* reliable guy.

Seventh: 38 draftees - 1 Reliable (3%)  - 2 Flash (5%) - 35 No-Show (92%).  Ahmad Bradshaw was the only hit here, and only two Top 20 seasons.
The general synopsis I took away from this is that if there is a first round talent at RB that you can use, select him.  Barkley fits that mold, Guice would as well IMO.  But I wouldn't wish too much on a 3rd rnd or later type of RB - They just don't show up as consistently - if you're looking for top end, reliable talent.  Barkley fits that mold that comes around none too often.  He's one that if we were going to spend a 1st rnd pick on a RB, I'm fine with it being him.  I'm not sold that Guice will be there in the 2nd rnd.  CLE has the chance to get two top playmakers, or a potential FQB and a top playmaker in this draft.  They also have the draft capital to move around.  I would like to see Barkley selected with one of those top picks.  I won't jump off a bridge if he's not, but that's my hope.

 
The general synopsis I took away from this is that if there is a first round talent at RB that you can use, select him
You mean like Trent Richardson and William Green, Ki Janna Car... ?  No.  

How about HOF RBs like: Adrian Peterson and LaDanian, and Barry Sanders, Eric Dickerson?  Yes, YEs, YES!

How many Superbowl teams did they play on?

RBs have one of the lower rates of propelling teams to SB victories unless they have a great QB, HC, and/or one of the all-time best defenses.  

The game has changed.  RBBC is the current version and you don't need to waste a top pick on a position that takes soo much punishment and where you need two healthy RBs to make it through the year.  

 
Let's see...

NY JETS

NY GIANTS (ELI can be beat out)

Broncos

Cardinals

Bills

Jaguars

Vikings

Those are just off the top of my head. There are also several places he could go be the back-up and have a better opportunity long term: 

Chargers

TEXANS

COLT

BALTIMORE

PITTSBURGH

The reality is that the Browns in the last 17 years have been a place where QB's go to see their careers die. Show me that I'm wrong. Better even as a back-up then going to CLE. 
Crickets.....

 
Seems weird that the troll is complaining about our opinions of his comments.......because we dont like his opinions.  

Yes folks, he truly is THAT stupid.

 
Oh I can figure it out just fine: 

If I give my opinion and i don't comment on the poor showing of the team (I.E. ignore the elephant in the room), it's not Trolling. For example, If I say "why wouldn't Cousins want to sign with the browns, they are a great team",! 

If I give my opinion, including the REALITY of the teams poor history then I'm a "Troll",. For example, "yeah I don't think Cousins who will have many other options would go to a team with weak talent and a poor history of success".

Not Troll=Not accepting reality. got it. 
Look back at your last twenty posts.  Count up every one that is about another poster, rather than topical.  Add in the ones that do nothing but mock the city of Cleveland.  Add in half the ones that mock the Browns franchise in generic, non-constructive terms.  (Only half becase hey, it's the Browns...they are hard not to mock sometimes.)  

If you had posted only what is left over, you would be considered a contributor to the conversation even when voicing a contrarian opinion.

 
Look back at your last twenty posts.  Count up every one that is about another poster, rather than topical.  Add in the ones that do nothing but mock the city of Cleveland.  Add in half the ones that mock the Browns franchise in generic, non-constructive terms.  (Only half becase hey, it's the Browns...they are hard not to mock sometimes.)  

If you had posted only what is left over, you would be considered a contributor to the conversation even when voicing a contrarian opinion.
Or they could ague my facts and we could have a discussion. I'll admit it's hard for them to do, since they are you, know..FACTS. It's far easier to LABEL me a TROLL then win the argument. But I get it...if I lived in CLE maybe I would put my head in the sand too.... 

 
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Saw this on another site and thought it applies to this statement.  There appears to be a myth that successful RBs can be found later in the draft - and that those later round picks have just as much of a chance to be successful as the earlier rounds.  This guy looked at all RBs selected since the 2007 draft and rated them based on performance (Top20 at least once = "Flash", more than once = "Reliable", everyone else = "No Show".  He broke this down by rounds and what he found was a large drop off in talent at the RB position after the early rounds.  Note, his findings did not include UDFA RBs as there are so many misses that the few "gems" weren't worth the digging.  For every Arian Foster there are 50 RBs who never make it off the practice squads.

His results:

The general synopsis I took away from this is that if there is a first round talent at RB that you can use, select him.  Barkley fits that mold, Guice would as well IMO.  But I wouldn't wish too much on a 3rd rnd or later type of RB - They just don't show up as consistently - if you're looking for top end, reliable talent.  Barkley fits that mold that comes around none too often.  He's one that if we were going to spend a 1st rnd pick on a RB, I'm fine with it being him.  I'm not sold that Guice will be there in the 2nd rnd.  CLE has the chance to get two top playmakers, or a potential FQB and a top playmaker in this draft.  They also have the draft capital to move around.  I would like to see Barkley selected with one of those top picks.  I won't jump off a bridge if he's not, but that's my hope.
fair enough.  

but RB seems like a position where most teams now have a platoon, and you don’t have to have someone who is a stud by himself.  

 
You mean like Trent Richardson and William Green, Ki Janna Car... ?  No.  

How about HOF RBs like: Adrian Peterson and LaDanian, and Barry Sanders, Eric Dickerson?  Yes, YEs, YES!

How many Superbowl teams did they play on?

RBs have one of the lower rates of propelling teams to SB victories unless they have a great QB, HC, and/or one of the all-time best defenses.  

The game has changed.  RBBC is the current version and you don't need to waste a top pick on a position that takes soo much punishment and where you need two healthy RBs to make it through the year.  
C'mon Bracie. You're smarter than that! You know that by breaking out the talent it seperates the good (Elliott, Peterson) from the bad (Richardson, Green).  The author even had names and examples listed.

I'm not arguing with your take that the RB position is a complimentary one. I fan see how some view it as a luxury. But CLE is in a position that I only recall the Cowboys being in once before when the grabbed "the triplets"! 

To have the chance, the opportunity to define your team, your offense in one draft, you need to really look at it and consider it.  If Barkley is rated as being one of the best in this class and has the potential of a Zeke or Gurley, how do you pass it up?

 
fair enough.  

but RB seems like a position where most teams now have a platoon, and you don’t have to have someone who is a stud by himself.  
I agree, and the position really takes a pounding, so having a platoon  is nice. Two serviceable, complimentary hacks would be ideal. Consider the NO approach. Nice way to use them. I would think a Duke would still have a place on this team. 

With that said, many teams are still doing fine with a bell cow back (Bell, Zeke, Gurley, Fornette, Cook and the AZ guy who is escaping my mind when they're healthy. 

A team needs a couple of good backs, but when one is dynamic enough to help define the offense, is it that easy to pass him up?

 
I honestly wish everyone would stop quoting the troll. I mean, I honestly don't understand why everyone doesn't see the same thing as me:

You've chosen to ignore content by hoffman0001. Options

I get some people don't like the ignore feature. But this guy contributes absolute zero. What are you afraid you'll miss?

 
I honestly wish everyone would stop quoting the troll. I mean, I honestly don't understand why everyone doesn't see the same thing as me:

You've chosen to ignore content by hoffman0001. Options

I get some people don't like the ignore feature. But this guy contributes absolute zero. What are you afraid you'll miss?
:goodposting:

It's actually pretty easy to scroll by him at this point.

 
Everyone seems compelled to quote him and give him the attention he craves. I simply don't get it.
We're bored.  It's February.  He is like a clown.  He amuses me.  

Nah, I guess I'm done.  His shtick has grown a bit tiresome.  Well, it started tiresome, but whatevs. 

All facts, can't be refuted.  Troll the troller.  

When's the draft?

 
C'mon Bracie. You're smarter than that! You know that by breaking out the talent it seperates the good (Elliott, Peterson) from the bad (Richardson, Green).  The author even had names and examples listed.

I'm not arguing with your take that the RB position is a complimentary one. I fan see how some view it as a luxury. But CLE is in a position that I only recall the Cowboys being in once before when the grabbed "the triplets"! 

To have the chance, the opportunity to define your team, your offense in one draft, you need to really look at it and consider it.  If Barkley is rated as being one of the best in this class and has the potential of a Zeke or Gurley, how do you pass it up?
You don't.   Browns need to draft Barkley and have the best player from this draft making plays for them.  

 
That dude must have an awful life living in glitzy LA. 

If you ever are bored and want to be amused here, skim through some of his work in the Colts thread, how he started off his existence here on this message board in the 49ers thread (hint: same exact premise he started in this thread with, he just didn’t stick around there long), the Tyreke Hill thread, and others. I even saw a 100% lock post in Aug that was adament Janis wouldn’t make the Packers roster in the GB thread. No wonder he rarely posts in there. There were plenty of GB things to talk about this year too.

 
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