Cleveland school shooting (1 Viewer)

[Glass Joe]

Another shooting today....

Now, imagine lunatic children like this didn't have access to guns....your statement becomes.....existenceless.

I think the question is how parents that can raise this kid have access to guns. My stance is that schools should not be a gun ban zone for adults (teachers) who went through the proper mandatory training, back ground check, and practice to conceal a firearm for protection in a situation like this. We are lucky this kid got spooked by someone and decided to run instead of continuing to fire. I applaud the person that spooked him to run.

Maybe I'm just a dreamer, but I'd like to live in a society where NOBODY needed to bring guns to a school. Ever. I don't think they arm themselves in Swiss schools.I'll go back to my drum circle now.

You do.

 

[17seconds]

Since gun bans just won't ever happen, the easier route to take is for absolutely CRUSHING penalties for parents or guardians of minors who commit these acts. Or more specifically, whomever allowed their firearm to be used by the perpetrator.

I don't think that would make much difference. You're basically saying that parents with kids like this aren't motivated enough by the potential of their child killing others or being killed to stop it, but if they know they'll go to jail all of a sudden they start parenting or turn their kid over to police.Fear of death is a bigger motivator than fear of jail.

 

[wadegarrett]

http://www.punditpress.com/2012/02/tj-lane-picture.html

Attempting to Trace How the Picture of a Kid With Guns Became the TJ Lane Twitter Photo, Which It's Not

 

[HughHoney]

Clifford has his opinions on gun control but he'll keep them to himself. Then he derails the thread for the next 4 pages. I dont know what side you're on and I don't care. I came here to read about this shooting, not read the personal politics of people I don't care about.

Why aren't timeouts handed out for #### like this? You wanna talk about gun control in this country start a thread about it.

 

[ATC1]

Another shooting today....

Now, imagine lunatic children like this didn't have access to guns....your statement becomes.....existenceless.

I think the question is how parents that can raise this kid have access to guns. My stance is that schools should not be a gun ban zone for adults (teachers) who went through the proper mandatory training, back ground check, and practice to conceal a firearm for protection in a situation like this. We are lucky this kid got spooked by someone and decided to run instead of continuing to fire. I applaud the person that spooked him to run.

Maybe I'm just a dreamer, but I'd like to live in a society where NOBODY needed to bring guns to a school. Ever. I don't think they arm themselves in Swiss schools.I'll go back to my drum circle now.

So would I. So would I.

 

[Glass Joe]

Another student has died. :(

 

[BustedKnuckles]

We can cut down on workplace shootings by being nicer to co-workers with guns...just sayin

 

[BigJohn]

2nd victim has passed away. :(

 

[GroveDiesel]

Well, with a little background, the picture is starting to become a little more clear. Not a ton, but a little.

First, the shooter went to an alternative school for troubled kids. He was there waiting for the bus to take him to that school. It sounds like the kids he targeted also went to the alternative school. So it seems like a specific beef with those kids, maybe bullying (that'd be my guess).

Secondly, it sounds like his home life is a wreck. The kid lived with his grandparents. His dad has been in an out of jail for a whole host of violent offenses, including assaulting the kid's mom, assaulting a police officer and holding another woman under water while bashing her head into a wall. The mom had also been arrested in the past for domestic violence against the dad.

LINK

 

[Clifford]

Clifford has his opinions on gun control but he'll keep them to himself. Then he derails the thread for the next 4 pages. I dont know what side you're on and I don't care. I came here to read about this shooting, not read the personal politics of people I don't care about. Why aren't timeouts handed out for #### like this? You wanna talk about gun control in this country start a thread about it.

If you want facts about the shooting without discussion then you might not be in the right place. News articles give you exactly that with no dialogue whatsoever.The fact that you think I should be banned for making a larger point and expressing a perfectly valid opinion shows you are in the wrong place for what you are looking for.

 

[Clifford]

Another shooting today....

Now, imagine lunatic children like this didn't have access to guns....your statement becomes.....existenceless.

I think the question is how parents that can raise this kid have access to guns. My stance is that schools should not be a gun ban zone for adults (teachers) who went through the proper mandatory training, back ground check, and practice to conceal a firearm for protection in a situation like this. We are lucky this kid got spooked by someone and decided to run instead of continuing to fire. I applaud the person that spooked him to run.

Maybe I'm just a dreamer, but I'd like to live in a society where NOBODY needed to bring guns to a school. Ever. I don't think they arm themselves in Swiss schools.I'll go back to my drum circle now.

So would I. So would I.

It's called the rest of the 1st world. You should check it out.

 

[Marvin]

Another shooting today....

Now, imagine lunatic children like this didn't have access to guns....your statement becomes.....existenceless.

I think the question is how parents that can raise this kid have access to guns. My stance is that schools should not be a gun ban zone for adults (teachers) who went through the proper mandatory training, back ground check, and practice to conceal a firearm for protection in a situation like this.

As a public school teacher I would just like to say that this is one of the stupidest ideas I've ever heard.

 

[B-Deep]

so in a society that does not glorify violence, what would this child do?

Hug it out?

i guessi mean if we assume there is some mental issue that starts this in motion, i find it hard to believe that in some set of utopian non violent soceity this person would just decide to pick dasies rather than act out

Is it really that hard to believe? When I lived in the Czech Republic, for 2.5 years, there were maybe a total of 5 homicides. That's a slow week in North Birmingham.Here's a list of school shootings by location. Just compare the amount of US placenames vs all others as you scan down the list:http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0777958.htmlAlso, you act like willful homicide and total pacifism are the only options. There's quite a spectrum in between.

you exagerateand here's a list of overall homicide rate per 100,000 peopleshockingly the US is not firsthttp://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_gun_vio_hom_ove_hom_rat_per_100_pop-rate-per-100-000-pop

 

[Clifford]

I think the issue is more about what values our society instills in our youngest and most impressionable citizens.

We shouldn't get carried away as I am not saying we are the most violent country on earth. Clearly we are not. However, our standard of comparison should not be countries with a far less stable and prosperous society, nor should it be countries that do not have our standard of basic human rights and law and order.

So we should be aspiring to somewhere around the UK in terms of violent crime. We should not view being better than Mexico or even emerging LTAM countries like Brazil as an achievement because that is setting the bar too low. We might never get to the level of European countries but that should be what we shoot for.

On the list you reference we are slotted directly below the Ukraine and above Moldova. We have almost triple the homicide rate of our closest Western European country, Portugal. In terms of our closest comparable nation on the list, Australia, we are talking five times the amount of homicide.

But this about school shootings, not all violent gun crime, even though we clearly have a long way to go on that topic as well. The question is why so many children in this nation, as opposed to other nations, commit the act of carrying a gun into their school and shoot their classmates.

 

[B-Deep]

I think the issue is more about what values our society instills in our youngest and most impressionable citizens.We shouldn't get carried away as I am not saying we are the most violent country on earth. Clearly we are not. However, our standard of comparison should not be countries with a far less stable and prosperous society, nor should it be countries that do not have our standard of basic human rights and law and order.So we should be aspiring to somewhere around the UK in terms of violent crime. We should not view being better than Mexico or even emerging LTAM countries like Brazil because that is setting the bar too low. We might never get to the level of European countries since they typically do not have the level of racial diversity that we have here.On the list you reference we are slotted directly below the Ukraine and above Moldova. We have almost triple the homicide rate of our closest Western European country, Portugal. In terms of our closest comparable nation on the list, Australia, we are talking five times the amount of homicide.But this about school shootings, not all violent gun crime, even though we clearly have a long way to go on that topic as well. The question is why so many children in this nation, as opposed to other nations, commit the act of carrying a gun into their school and shoot their classmates.

you are again cherry picking, but this has been derailed enough

 

[Clifford]

How am I cherry picking? Please answer...

Are you saying it's cherry picking to not compare ourselves to the South Africas, Mexicos, and Colombias of the world? Does everyone else think that is cherry picking?

I get that I have said things that might have pissed some people off (sorry) but I don't think I've injected any truly radical ideas into this thread. If the above list does anything it supports what I have been saying.

 

[glock]

Well, with a little background, the picture is starting to become a little more clear. Not a ton, but a little.

First, the shooter went to an alternative school for troubled kids. He was there waiting for the bus to take him to that school. It sounds like the kids he targeted also went to the alternative school. So it seems like a specific beef with those kids, maybe bullying (that'd be my guess).

Secondly, it sounds like his home life is a wreck. The kid lived with his grandparents. His dad has been in an out of jail for a whole host of violent offenses, including assaulting the kid's mom, assaulting a police officer and holding another woman under water while bashing her head into a wall. The mom had also been arrested in the past for domestic violence against the dad.

LINK

I wonder if he was spanked at home...

 

[ATC1]

Another shooting today....

Now, imagine lunatic children like this didn't have access to guns....your statement becomes.....existenceless.

I think the question is how parents that can raise this kid have access to guns. My stance is that schools should not be a gun ban zone for adults (teachers) who went through the proper mandatory training, back ground check, and practice to conceal a firearm for protection in a situation like this.

As a public school teacher I would just like to say that this is one of the stupidest ideas I've ever heard.

Thanks for the input. It's very helpful.Do you have any knowledge of guns or self defense?

 

[Marvin]

Another shooting today....

Now, imagine lunatic children like this didn't have access to guns....your statement becomes.....existenceless.

I think the question is how parents that can raise this kid have access to guns. My stance is that schools should not be a gun ban zone for adults (teachers) who went through the proper mandatory training, back ground check, and practice to conceal a firearm for protection in a situation like this.

As a public school teacher I would just like to say that this is one of the stupidest ideas I've ever heard.

Thanks for the input. It's very helpful.Do you have any knowledge of guns or self defense?

Yes. Do you have any knowledge of school safety?

 

[B-Deep]

How am I cherry picking? Please answer...Are you saying it's cherry picking to not compare ourselves to the South Africas, Mexicos, and Colombias of the world? Does everyone else think that is cherry picking?I get that I have said things that might have pissed some people off (sorry) but I don't think I've injected any truly radical ideas into this thread. If the above list does anything it supports what I have been saying.

you are creating your own criteria discarding anything that does not support the "our societal love of violence theory" and on top of that anyone whose violence rate is lower than ours you attribute immediately TO their less violent nature. What proof do you have that Australlia's violence rate is less because of their societies rejection of violence and not because of population density, cultural diversity, wealth distribution, urban conditions, etc etc etcnoneyou discard anyone above us and simplify an explanation for those below, which is what i call cherry pickingnow you have derailed this thread quite enough and I feel badly for encouraging you. You said please so i answered, i will not divert down this line of discussion further. Societal views of violence are no doubt a reasonable place to look for A FACTOR that influences things like this, and indeed that would be a worthy topic for a thread. You have over simplified this and imo over stressed this as a simple solution - stop loving violence. I reject that as the single solutiongood day.

 

[Clifford]

Comparing apples to apples is cherry picking, ok. I have said from the beginning that we should look at all factors and not cherry pick our reasons like only looking at video games or only looking at rock music which is the common reaction to these incidents.

I am just looking at the numbers you provided. It's incredibly easy to note that everyone above us on the list is not a country we would agree on as comparable to the US in any statistic or measure of a nation you could dream of.

So sorry if the notion that US is more violent a society than its first world counterparts offends you, but I assure you I am not alone in sharing that view. I'm fine with dropping it as it is obviously a subject that people are uncomfortable dealing with.

After all, this kid was a loner with bad parents. Case closed...

 

[greenroom]

CNN is reporting a third student has passed away. :(

 

[B-Deep]

Comparing apples to apples is cherry picking, ok. I have said from the beginning that we should look at all factors and not cherry pick our reasons like only looking at video games or only looking at rock music which is the common reaction to these incidents.I am just looking at the numbers you provided. It's incredibly easy to note that everyone above us on the list is not a country we would agree on as comparable to the US in any statistic or measure of a nation you could dream of.So sorry if the notion that US is more violent a society than its first world counterparts offends you, but I assure you I am not alone in sharing that view. I'm fine with dropping it as it is obviously a subject that people are uncomfortable dealing with.After all, this kid was a loner with bad parents. Case closed...

start a thread if you would likepeople want this one on topic

 

[ATC1]

Another shooting today....

Now, imagine lunatic children like this didn't have access to guns....your statement becomes.....existenceless.

I think the question is how parents that can raise this kid have access to guns. My stance is that schools should not be a gun ban zone for adults (teachers) who went through the proper mandatory training, back ground check, and practice to conceal a firearm for protection in a situation like this.

As a public school teacher I would just like to say that this is one of the stupidest ideas I've ever heard.

Thanks for the input. It's very helpful.Do you have any knowledge of guns or self defense?

Yes. Do you have any knowledge of school safety?

Yes. Do you ever share and explain your opinions with your class or people on message boards?

 

[Clifford]

I really did think that talking about why we have so many school shootings in this country was not only on-topic but would interest people. My mistake.

 

[wadegarrett]

3rd student dies

 

[Chaka]

CNN is reporting a third student has passed away. :(

Oh man this keeps getting worse.

 

[Marvin]

Another shooting today....

Now, imagine lunatic children like this didn't have access to guns....your statement becomes.....existenceless.

I think the question is how parents that can raise this kid have access to guns. My stance is that schools should not be a gun ban zone for adults (teachers) who went through the proper mandatory training, back ground check, and practice to conceal a firearm for protection in a situation like this.

As a public school teacher I would just like to say that this is one of the stupidest ideas I've ever heard.

Thanks for the input. It's very helpful.Do you have any knowledge of guns or self defense?

Yes. Do you have any knowledge of school safety?

Yes. Do you ever share and explain your opinions with your class or people on message boards?

Yes

 

[The Football Freak]

Another shooting today....

Now, imagine lunatic children like this didn't have access to guns....your statement becomes.....existenceless.

I think the question is how parents that can raise this kid have access to guns. My stance is that schools should not be a gun ban zone for adults (teachers) who went through the proper mandatory training, back ground check, and practice to conceal a firearm for protection in a situation like this.

As a public school teacher I would just like to say that this is one of the stupidest ideas I've ever heard.

Thanks for the input. It's very helpful.Do you have any knowledge of guns or self defense?

Yes. Do you have any knowledge of school safety?

Yes. Do you ever share and explain your opinions with your class or people on message boards?

So your contention is that "properly trained" teachers should be bringing concealed guns into schools? Really? I'm not sure Lllllllllama is the one that needs to explain the nuances of his position.

 

[ATC1]

Another shooting today....

Now, imagine lunatic children like this didn't have access to guns....your statement becomes.....existenceless.

I think the question is how parents that can raise this kid have access to guns. My stance is that schools should not be a gun ban zone for adults (teachers) who went through the proper mandatory training, back ground check, and practice to conceal a firearm for protection in a situation like this.

As a public school teacher I would just like to say that this is one of the stupidest ideas I've ever heard.

Thanks for the input. It's very helpful.Do you have any knowledge of guns or self defense?

Yes. Do you have any knowledge of school safety?

Yes. Do you ever share and explain your opinions with your class or people on message boards?

So your contention is that "properly trained" teachers should be bringing concealed guns into schools? Really? I'm not sure Lllllllllama is the one that needs to explain the nuances of his position.

Not neccissarily teachers but anyone with a permit to carry. In most states, anyone with the right qualifications can get a concealed carry permit. The state determines the course of action to get one. Personally I feel most states don't require enough. However, what is a federal law is that there are gun free zones where those with a permit can not carry. If they break this law, brandishing law or have any type of arrest their permit is revoked. It's like not being able to drive a car, ever again, if you get caught speeding in a school zone. Strict. In locations where an armed police man can not be around, a responsible person could be trained for a situation where fewer students are injured in the shooting. This shooting is on a small scale, but a place like VTech or Columbine if someone with the authority to use deadly force was there the number of victims may have been decreased.

 

[beer 30]

CNN is reporting a third student has passed away. :(

Oh man this keeps getting worse.

Pretty sure it's about as bad as it's going to get now.

 

[Chaka]

CNN is reporting a third student has passed away. :(

Oh man this keeps getting worse.

Pretty sure it's about as bad as it's going to get now.

The fourth wasn't injured badly?

 

[Marvin]

Another shooting today....

Now, imagine lunatic children like this didn't have access to guns....your statement becomes.....existenceless.

I think the question is how parents that can raise this kid have access to guns. My stance is that schools should not be a gun ban zone for adults (teachers) who went through the proper mandatory training, back ground check, and practice to conceal a firearm for protection in a situation like this.

As a public school teacher I would just like to say that this is one of the stupidest ideas I've ever heard.

Thanks for the input. It's very helpful.Do you have any knowledge of guns or self defense?

Yes. Do you have any knowledge of school safety?

Yes. Do you ever share and explain your opinions with your class or people on message boards?

So your contention is that "properly trained" teachers should be bringing concealed guns into schools? Really? I'm not sure Lllllllllama is the one that needs to explain the nuances of his position.

Not neccissarily teachers but anyone with a permit to carry. In most states, anyone with the right qualifications can get a concealed carry permit. The state determines the course of action to get one. Personally I feel most states don't require enough. However, what is a federal law is that there are gun free zones where those with a permit can not carry. If they break this law, brandishing law or have any type of arrest their permit is revoked. It's like not being able to drive a car, ever again, if you get caught speeding in a school zone. Strict. In locations where an armed police man can not be around, a responsible person could be trained for a situation where fewer students are injured in the shooting. This shooting is on a small scale, but a place like VTech or Columbine if someone with the authority to use deadly force was there the number of victims may have been decreased.

Well I'm convinced.

 

[17seconds]

CNN is reporting a third student has passed away. :(

Oh man this keeps getting worse.

Pretty sure it's about as bad as it's going to get now.

The fourth wasn't injured badly?

One of them was shot in the hind quarters and it wasn't life threatening.

 

[Clifford]

So the solution to shootings is more guns?

 

[beer 30]

CNN is reporting a third student has passed away. :(

Oh man this keeps getting worse.

Pretty sure it's about as bad as it's going to get now.

The fourth wasn't injured badly?

Pretty sure one was shot in the ear or grazed but wasn't sure if he was considered a "victim". I assumed so.

 

[ATC1]

Another shooting today....

Now, imagine lunatic children like this didn't have access to guns....your statement becomes.....existenceless.

I think the question is how parents that can raise this kid have access to guns. My stance is that schools should not be a gun ban zone for adults (teachers) who went through the proper mandatory training, back ground check, and practice to conceal a firearm for protection in a situation like this.

As a public school teacher I would just like to say that this is one of the stupidest ideas I've ever heard.

Thanks for the input. It's very helpful.Do you have any knowledge of guns or self defense?

Yes. Do you have any knowledge of school safety?

Yes. Do you ever share and explain your opinions with your class or people on message boards?

So your contention is that "properly trained" teachers should be bringing concealed guns into schools? Really? I'm not sure Lllllllllama is the one that needs to explain the nuances of his position.

Not neccissarily teachers but anyone with a permit to carry. In most states, anyone with the right qualifications can get a concealed carry permit. The state determines the course of action to get one. Personally I feel most states don't require enough. However, what is a federal law is that there are gun free zones where those with a permit can not carry. If they break this law, brandishing law or have any type of arrest their permit is revoked. It's like not being able to drive a car, ever again, if you get caught speeding in a school zone. Strict. In locations where an armed police man can not be around, a responsible person could be trained for a situation where fewer students are injured in the shooting. This shooting is on a small scale, but a place like VTech or Columbine if someone with the authority to use deadly force was there the number of victims may have been decreased.

Well I'm convinced.

It took you that long reading my post? I need to do a better job. I wouldn't know if it will work. Maybe I should have said "probably" instead of "may".

 

[ATC1]

So the solution to shootings is more guns?

The solution, IMO, is less restrictions on prohibited firearm areas for people who are responsible and actually obey the laws.

 

[glumpy]

In locations where an armed police man can not be around, a responsible person could be trained for a situation where fewer students are injured in the shooting. This shooting is on a small scale, but a place like VTech or Columbine if someone with the authority to use deadly force was there the number of victims may have been decreased.

Interesting idea, but you're using this incident/thread as a platform while suggesting that it's not a good example. Maybe this should be another thread?

 

[Clifford]

So the solution to shootings is more guns?

The solution, IMO, is less restrictions on prohibited firearm areas for people who are responsible and actually obey the laws.

How many times has a shooting been stopped because someone at the scene had a gun and did something about it?We've heard this argument before: all we need to stop gun crime is a populace of well-armed responsible citizens who will stop gun crime in its tracks by taking out the shooter before said shoot can cause any harm. Trouble is this proposition turns America into the wild west which was not marked for its law and order.

 

[Marvin]

It took you that long reading my post? I need to do a better job. I wouldn't know if it will work. Maybe I should have said "probably" instead of "may".

Yeah "probably" isn't going to cut it either.

 

[Addai's Adidas]

I have a CCW. I don't think I'd be carrying the kind of weapon that would be able to compete with someone who has a plan and a bigger gun. I would probably leave it in the holster.

 

[ditka...mike ditka]

Another shooting today....

Now, imagine lunatic children like this didn't have access to guns....your statement becomes.....existenceless.

I think the question is how parents that can raise this kid have access to guns. My stance is that schools should not be a gun ban zone for adults (teachers) who went through the proper mandatory training, back ground check, and practice to conceal a firearm for protection in a situation like this.

As a public school teacher I would just like to say that this is one of the stupidest ideas I've ever heard.

Thanks for the input. It's very helpful.Do you have any knowledge of guns or self defense?

Yes. Do you have any knowledge of school safety?

Yes. Do you ever share and explain your opinions with your class or people on message boards?

So your contention is that "properly trained" teachers should be bringing concealed guns into schools? Really? I'm not sure Lllllllllama is the one that needs to explain the nuances of his position.

Not neccissarily teachers but anyone with a permit to carry. In most states, anyone with the right qualifications can get a concealed carry permit. The state determines the course of action to get one. Personally I feel most states don't require enough. However, what is a federal law is that there are gun free zones where those with a permit can not carry. If they break this law, brandishing law or have any type of arrest their permit is revoked. It's like not being able to drive a car, ever again, if you get caught speeding in a school zone. Strict. In locations where an armed police man can not be around, a responsible person could be trained for a situation where fewer students are injured in the shooting. This shooting is on a small scale, but a place like VTech or Columbine if someone with the authority to use deadly force was there the number of victims may have been decreased.

Well I'm convinced.

Let me preface this with saying I am not sure with where I stand on the suggestion that ATC1 brings up, and I would likely be against it, but Marvin's response sheds some light on me with why I think kids coming out of school are dumber and act more childish. The teaches (Marvin) act like kids themselves. I have many friends that are teachers that I am absolutely amazed that they are supposed to be teaching kids. They act like morons, they are disrespectful, they can't carry an intellegent conversation etc., and they are supposed to educate our youth? It sad.

(note, bad teachers have nothing to do with this kid shooting other kids...this is just a side rant about the poor quality of teahcers america has. There are good teachers out there, but a majority are not.)

 

[ATC1]

I have a CCW. I don't think I'd be carrying the kind of weapon that would be able to compete with someone who has a plan and a bigger gun. I would probably leave it in the holster.

Wait what? Why even carry? Anyone that attacks you has a plan to physically harm. At least you have the element of surprise because he doesn't know you have one. As far as bigger gun, well I think you know the answer.

 

[Marvin]

Let me preface this with saying I am not sure with where I stand on the suggestion that ATC1 brings up, and I would likely be against it, but Marvin's response sheds some light on me with why I think kids coming out of school are dumber and act more childish. The teaches (Marvin) act like kids themselves. I have many friends that are teachers that I am absolutely amazed that they are supposed to be teaching kids. They act like morons, they are disrespectful, they can't carry an intellegent conversation etc., and they are supposed to educate our youth? It sad. (note, bad teachers have nothing to do with this kid shooting other kids...this is just a side rant about the poor quality of teahcers america has. There are good teachers out there, but a majority are not.)

1. Kids coming out of school today are dumber and act more childish. You're just getting older.2. Do you honestly think that how I post on some internet messageboard is how I address my students? 3. The majority of teachers in America are not good teachers? Proof?4. You misspelled "intelligent" and "teachers". You also didn't capitalize America.

 

[ATC1]

So the solution to shootings is more guns?

The solution, IMO, is less restrictions on prohibited firearm areas for people who are responsible and actually obey the laws.

How many times has a shooting been stopped because someone at the scene had a gun and did something about it?We've heard this argument before: all we need to stop gun crime is a populace of well-armed responsible citizens who will stop gun crime in its tracks by taking out the shooter before said shoot can cause any harm. Trouble is this proposition turns America into the wild west which was not marked for its law and order.

I hear about CCP holders all the time that do what it is intended. This is certainly not the Wild West where anyone can carry a gun legally. I'm all for more gun control or enforcement of the current law that gets guns out of the wrong person's hands.

 

[Marvin]

So the solution to shootings is more guns?

The solution, IMO, is less restrictions on prohibited firearm areas for people who are responsible and actually obey the laws.

How many times has a shooting been stopped because someone at the scene had a gun and did something about it?We've heard this argument before: all we need to stop gun crime is a populace of well-armed responsible citizens who will stop gun crime in its tracks by taking out the shooter before said shoot can cause any harm. Trouble is this proposition turns America into the wild west which was not marked for its law and order.

I hear about CCP holders all the time that do what it is intended. This is certainly not the Wild West where anyone can carry a gun legally. I'm all for more gun control or enforcement of the current law that gets guns out of the wrong person's hands.

I hardly ever hear that. So we can call it a wash.

 

[BustedKnuckles]

So the solution to shootings is more guns?

The solution, IMO, is less restrictions on prohibited firearm areas for people who are responsible and actually obey the laws.

How many times has a shooting been stopped because someone at the scene had a gun and did something about it?We've heard this argument before: all we need to stop gun crime is a populace of well-armed responsible citizens who will stop gun crime in its tracks by taking out the shooter before said shoot can cause any harm. Trouble is this proposition turns America into the wild west which was not marked for its law and order.

Yes, its FAR better to be like sheep at a slaughter house laying in the fetal position praying the guy shooting everyone steps over you and doesnt kill you...ya , thats the ticket!!!! Why give people a fighting chance, thats just stupid.

 

[Chairshot]

It's a MASSIVE assumption to say that simply because someone has qualified for a CCP, that they would react to a situation like this in a way that would impact positively.

It's akin to saying that the best way to save people from heart attacks is to "arm" the populace with scalpels and sutures. Knowing how to properly respond to a situation like this goes way, way beyond knowing how to safely load, fire and maintain a firearm.

I'd wager that arming teachers would make matters much, much worse and probably cause more injuries or death.

If a school wants to prepare for something like this, they should keep trained law enforcement on the premises at all times. And even then, law enforcement isn't going to respond perfectly 100% of the time.

Simply because a person has qualified for a CCP does NOT make them the "right" person to deal with something like this.

 

[Chaka]

Let me preface this with saying I am not sure with where I stand on the suggestion that ATC1 brings up, and I would likely be against it, but Marvin's response sheds some light on me with why I think kids coming out of school are dumber and act more childish. The teaches (Marvin) act like kids themselves. I have many friends that are teachers that I am absolutely amazed that they are supposed to be teaching kids. They act like morons, they are disrespectful, they can't carry an intellegent conversation etc., and they are supposed to educate our youth? It sad. (note, bad teachers have nothing to do with this kid shooting other kids...this is just a side rant about the poor quality of teahcers america has. There are good teachers out there, but a majority are not.)

1. Kids coming out of school today are dumber and act more childish. You're just getting older.2. Do you honestly think that how I post on some internet messageboard is how I address my students? 3. The majority of teachers in America are not good teachers? Proof?4. You misspelled "intelligent" and "teachers". You also didn't capitalize America.

3) Well if your corrections of his grammar and spelling are any indication...I kid, I kid.