FUBAR
Footballguy
The lions are the only team in the city that hasn't strung a few great years together in my lifetime. Wiz got rivers to improve, if he can do that with Stafford... watch out
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Coaches that will be fired on Black Monday (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter KellysHeroes
- Start date
You're probably right. I foolishly thought he might recognize Cameron as similar to Gronk and use him that way, but after witnessing him dismantle a top 3 offense in Denver, there's no telling what he might do. I recall overvaluing Eddie royal thinking he would inherit welker's role.Let me know how the rest of them have done in his place.the only thing to go on is 2009-2010 Denver with Orton at QB and Graham/Schfler at TE.That Gronk feller did okIf that ### hat gets the gig, I'll probably send J. Cameron off for a 2014 1st Rd dynasty pick. Or does he use the TE? With The Tebown at QB under McDoosh, we really have no valid data.You can engrave McDaniel's name on the door. The rest is just scouting the opposition.And the stupidity continues in Cleveland.
Browns want permission to interview OC of Broncos. This should end well. My gawd these guys are dumber than I thought. Nothing against this guy but he had Peyton Manning. All he did was signal in a play and then Manning decided what play he was going to run.
He's been doing it for 1 year, (standing around watching Manning run the show) with arguably the greatest QB ever. He's not going to come in and turn Cleveland into a scoring machine. Before that he was the QB coach.QB coach for Manning. Manning already knows more than every QB coach put together.
That's how he felt then.
Plus if he said no (yes it may have happened but I mean if you were him) he won't be back, the team would have mailed in the games.
That's a terrible question and Spielman should have said Cmon asking me in November? or some sort of non-answer. This is nowhere near as bad as BB coaching the Jets for a few minutes or Jones having a handshake agreement with Stoops.
Teams interview people (often times 7 or 8) before they decide; even if they know whom they want. Interviews give them a chance to meet a good football mind and see how they all get along during their chat, what their vision is etc. There can't be anything wrong with chatting with the OC for the top offense. Why not pick his brain? Do a meet N greet?And the stupidity continues in Cleveland.
Browns want permission to interview OC of Broncos. This should end well. My gawd these guys are dumber than I thought. Nothing against this guy but he had Peyton Manning. All he did was signal in a play and then Manning decided what play he was going to run.
He's been doing it for 1 year, (standing around watching Manning run the show) with arguably the greatest QB ever. He's not going to come in and turn Cleveland into a scoring machine. Before that he was the QB coach.
QuizGuy66
Footballguy
1. Houston - good owner that is patient. #1 draft pick and the top pick in each round. Still a good fan base. Division that should winnable year in year out.
2. Detroit - comparisons to where cincy was at prior to breakthrough. Lots of talent. Patient ownership. Good opportunity to win right away.
3. Leaving 3 blank as there is a big gap after 3
4. Minnesota. High draft picks should net a QB to build around. Ownership is not great. Being outside will be odd when going back inside in 2 years but thay also probably builds time.
5. Tampa Bay. Ownership is more focused on its soccer team. Could catch nasty staph infection. Climate is nice though.
6. Washington. Awful owner that will be in your way. Talented QB that gets hurt too much. Not the easiest media town either. The divison is down which helps and Snyder will spend the money but just too much to overcome.
7. Cleveland. Fired a dude after one year. How can you trust ownership like that? Perpetual rebuilding machine. Tough division with solid organizations going against you. Added draft picks is a positive but the culture there is a lot to overcome.
-QG
2. Detroit - comparisons to where cincy was at prior to breakthrough. Lots of talent. Patient ownership. Good opportunity to win right away.
3. Leaving 3 blank as there is a big gap after 3
4. Minnesota. High draft picks should net a QB to build around. Ownership is not great. Being outside will be odd when going back inside in 2 years but thay also probably builds time.
5. Tampa Bay. Ownership is more focused on its soccer team. Could catch nasty staph infection. Climate is nice though.
6. Washington. Awful owner that will be in your way. Talented QB that gets hurt too much. Not the easiest media town either. The divison is down which helps and Snyder will spend the money but just too much to overcome.
7. Cleveland. Fired a dude after one year. How can you trust ownership like that? Perpetual rebuilding machine. Tough division with solid organizations going against you. Added draft picks is a positive but the culture there is a lot to overcome.
-QG
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Donny Loved Bowling
Footballguy
I think you do Tampa a disservice by not rating them #3. Appear to have franchise QB and RB in place, plus a legit #1 WR. Talent on defense as well. Good facilities, good climate. Tough division, to be sure. But still an attractive job.
No matter how much you like Glennon, i dont' think you can say "appear to have a franchise qb in place"?
Grahamburn
Footballguy
Andrew Luck 2012 16 starts:
54.1% completion. 23 TDs. 18 INTs.
Mike Glennon 2013 13 starts:
59.4% complete. 19 TDs. 9 INTs.
BeTheMatch
Footballguy
lod01
Footballguy
Looks like OC KillDrive may get the axe and also OC Mike Sherman. As a FavreCo owner 
for most of his career, I can tell you that a firing of Sherman is a great move.
Maybe Gomer can indeed be a comeback candidate in 2014.
Mara never once named Gilbride, although he seemed to blame Gilbride for plenty. That included the handling of late-season breakout star Jerrel Jernigan, who spent two seasons in complete obscurity before this month’s emergence. Kevin M. Gilbride, the coordinator’s son, is the Giants receivers coach.
jesus. What a ####### surprise. Coaching talent not required, relatives get 1st shot.
for most of his career, I can tell you that a firing of Sherman is a great move.Maybe Gomer can indeed be a comeback candidate in 2014.
Mara never once named Gilbride, although he seemed to blame Gilbride for plenty. That included the handling of late-season breakout star Jerrel Jernigan, who spent two seasons in complete obscurity before this month’s emergence. Kevin M. Gilbride, the coordinator’s son, is the Giants receivers coach.
jesus. What a ####### surprise. Coaching talent not required, relatives get 1st shot.
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I like Gilbride.Looks like OC KillDrive may get the axe and also OC Mike Sherman. As a FavreCo owner
Maybe Gomer can indeed be a comeback candidate in 2014.
Mara never once named Gilbride, although he seemed to blame Gilbride for plenty. That included the handling of late-season breakout star Jerrel Jernigan, who spent two seasons in complete obscurity before this month’s emergence. Kevin M. Gilbride, the coordinator’s son, is the Giants receivers coach.
jesus. What a ####### surprise. Coaching talent not required, relatives get 1st shot.
He coached a bad Chargers team and a bad Bills team but fine he's no head coach. As an OC, though, I like him.
I enjoy his tough offense. It will never be pretty like some today, but I like it.
When he was with the Steelers they had a QB disaster that no one could fix and eventually they drafted Big Ben. Blame him for Tommy Maddux? or just before retiring Kordell? Cmon. Anyhow he had Bus and Plax and Ward and that Steelers line. In Jax he had Natrone and Brunell flinging it to Keenan and Jimmy Smith, Jacobs/Ward and Bradshaw, Eli Cruz and Nicks. I like his offenses just fine.
He's not the fastest show on Turf, Vermeil, Sean Payton's Drew Brees O, or Tom Moore's Peyton offense.
He's never had the top QB, but probably Brunell and Eli's career years are best. He's done well with what he's been given.
His son-The Giants have produced some excellent WRs the last so many years. There's one reason why Jerrell sat. People all jumped on board a poorly timed statement by Mara as if anyone wanted Jerrell playing over Cruz or Randle. Nicks, til recenty, was the locked in starter. Mario was there fighting for time and Nicks was untouchable. They even had Steve Smith who, before wrecking his knee, was an excellent young WR who had nearly 100 grabs IIRC. It would be a challenge to find a WR coach with a better group. Players leave and the Gmen haven't missed a beat til this year and most of us are blaming Eli.
NY is a different environment than the rest of the country. They call for coaches heads after a single loss. Anywhere except NY it would be odd to hear fans complaining about a coach that's 6-1 or somesuch. People wanted Coughlin gone after winning a Supe.
The Giants offense was out of sync and if that blame goes on Gilbride, ok then, but there's plenty of other issues and a thread here discussing them. Captain of the ship taking the fall... whatever, I'll roll with it, but this is a good OC.
Coughlin is fighting for Gilbride's job. I would not be surprised if Coughlin is suddenly the top coaching candidate. This is new in NY, no one said boo to Wellington Mara but this is his son now. Depending how Coughlin behaves, he might have to let Coughlin go now too.
article re coughlin and mara http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/giants/myers-coughlin-set-return-giant-fight-oc-loom-article-1.1562049
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
Detroit should jump all over Coughlin if he is let go
Gilbride sucks, he should be canned
Gilbride sucks, he should be canned
lod01
Footballguy
Here's part of the problem with KillDrive's O. It's old and very complex from what I have read. Not only does the QB have to make multiple reads, the WR's do as well. Well, that's not going to end well (and hasn't now for almost 2 years) if the WR's aren't top of the line.
Nicks for instance, on one play that called for catching the ball at the 50 yard marker, stopped short and Eli threw the ball to a wide open DB for a TD the other way.
Randle on another INT, read it as a go and Eli threw to the spot he thought Randle should be at. Once again, there is the DB catching the pass in stride for a TD.
This happened more than twice as we know. Many times you would see Manning motioning that he wanted the WR to run a different pattern. I find it really odd that the DBs are where the pass is at. I'm talking the ball hits them in the numbers. Seems they knew the play better than the WRs did.
Then you have Peyton Manning and from what I have read, the simplest offense you could imagine. It seems illogical to run a complex O with an inferior QB.
Nicks for instance, on one play that called for catching the ball at the 50 yard marker, stopped short and Eli threw the ball to a wide open DB for a TD the other way.
Randle on another INT, read it as a go and Eli threw to the spot he thought Randle should be at. Once again, there is the DB catching the pass in stride for a TD.
This happened more than twice as we know. Many times you would see Manning motioning that he wanted the WR to run a different pattern. I find it really odd that the DBs are where the pass is at. I'm talking the ball hits them in the numbers. Seems they knew the play better than the WRs did.
Then you have Peyton Manning and from what I have read, the simplest offense you could imagine. It seems illogical to run a complex O with an inferior QB.
Gilbride has been coaching offenses for 20? years. It can't be too complex as there's probably hundreds of players that ran it just fine.
Eli was off this year. I don't know what his deal was. He's played with Nicks far too long in this very offense, for the blame on timing or running the right route to be on Gilbride. Randle was inexperienced and that just happens in rgerettable fashion all over the league with inexperienced wideouts.
Look the Giants O left a whole lot to be desired this year. I'm not saying it didn't. How many starting RBs did they have? Lost their best lineman and both centers. People have concerns Nicks hit an age sort of peak and isn't as good anymore, it's tough when your #1 goes through that. The only way they would get through it was with a good leader and I do think Gilbride and Eli failed there.
I believe he's been there ten years. They have had good offenses most every year before this. They went to two Supes since he's been there. I think anywhere but NY, the season is called a wash and he's allowed to continue "with a tight leash" or somesuch next year.
See in my opinion if Sean Payton was the Giants OC again, he wouldn't have had them doing well. He's got a great track record in New Orleans, but I don't think a top offensive mind would have done well with the Gmen this year. I think Eli was just so very off and the turnover at RB and OL was too much. Snee was the glue that held it together when others got injured. It was different to lose him. Many here were wrong about Wilson, somehow Brown looks good, somehow we are rooting for recently cut veterans to lead the Giants rushing attack and...I just don't think this offense would have been good with anyone as the OC.
lod01
Footballguy
Yeah, pretty much. Since 1990, 17 as the official OC on a team, 2 as a HC and 2 as a QB coach. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevin_Gilbride
All you have to do is look at the fluke victories in the SBs ( Tyree catches a ball on his helmet and Manningham catches a miracle pass) and the fluke deep passes that used to be 50-80 yard TDs to see that eventually it was going to dry up. I've had Gomer as one of my dynasty Qbs since the beginning so I see every game. The offense blows. It is predicated on the big play. Well, the big play has a low % chance of completion.
It's like a souped up Al Davis vertical attack and we know that was done decades ago.
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lod01
Footballguy
jesus. Mangina trying to weasel into Miami.
http://www.theredzone.org/BlogDescription/tabid/61/EntryId/39745/Report--Eric-Mangini-could-possibly-replace-Dolphins-GM-Ireland/Default.aspx
http://www.theredzone.org/BlogDescription/tabid/61/EntryId/39745/Report--Eric-Mangini-could-possibly-replace-Dolphins-GM-Ireland/Default.aspx
The last sentence of that blurb is pretty funny too:
a) he hasn't been fired
b) those are some miserable choices
Seems like the people discounting Adam Gase as HC material because he was OC for a Peyton Manning offense have it exactly backward. First of all, do you think a perfectionist and intense competitor like Peyton is going to say to Fox and Elway, "You guys just hire a stiff as OC; I'll do all the work myself?" Or do you think he's going to insist on the smartest guy they can find? (It's also worth pointing out that, causation or no causation, Manning's been in the league a long time, and it wasn't until he hooked up with Gase that he went off for 5,400 yds and 55 TDs).
Far from hurting his chances, the Peyton stamp of approval is the only thing keeping Gase in the mix for all these HC roles. He's a 35-year-old with one year of experience as an OC, and a pretty short coaching resume in general. Someone complained in another thread that Pep Hamilton was an affirmative-action hire who didn't have the proper "pedigree" for an OC. Leaving aside the offensiveness of that argument, Hamilton (who no one is talking about as HC material) is freakin' **** Lebeau compared to Gase.
I have no idea if any team is going to hire Gase, much less if they should (I suspect Bri is right that this could just be an exploratory interview to hear out a guy with a smart offensive mind). But if he does get an offer, it will be entirely because of his association with Manning.
Far from hurting his chances, the Peyton stamp of approval is the only thing keeping Gase in the mix for all these HC roles. He's a 35-year-old with one year of experience as an OC, and a pretty short coaching resume in general. Someone complained in another thread that Pep Hamilton was an affirmative-action hire who didn't have the proper "pedigree" for an OC. Leaving aside the offensiveness of that argument, Hamilton (who no one is talking about as HC material) is freakin' **** Lebeau compared to Gase.
I have no idea if any team is going to hire Gase, much less if they should (I suspect Bri is right that this could just be an exploratory interview to hear out a guy with a smart offensive mind). But if he does get an offer, it will be entirely because of his association with Manning.
KellysHeroes
Footballguy
none really surprising, I did think Shanny was going to get one more year that way the new staff didn't have to deal with the lose of a 1st rounder in their 1st yr. Now some coach has to come in and handle a pissy RGIII and the lose of that 2014 pick.
Long Ball Larry
Footballguy
JFS171
Footballguy
These two statements - the first and last of your post - seem to completely contradict each other.
Not at all. In the first sentence, I was arguing against this sentiment:
lod01, on 30 Dec 2013 - 3:03 PM, said:
My point was that his accomplishments with Manning are legit, and a strong argument in his favor. But they're also pretty much the only reason he's under consideration.
KellysHeroes
Footballguy
When is Cowher ready to return?
JFS171
Footballguy
I doubt he ever does... same with Gruden. I just don't see either one of them getting back in the grind after being paid well to work 1-2 days per week as TV guys. The farther you get away from the daily grind, the less likely you are to want to return.
IMO, had these guys wanted to coach again they'd have been back in a year or two at the most (similar to Lovie Smith).
KellysHeroes
Footballguy
Gruden seems happy and I think he knows that if/when he goes back he'll fail. Cowher on the otherhand was a very good coach and even after 14/15 years with Pitt he still young enough to give a team a good run. Once the right situation presents itself (NYG) he'll be back.
Rumors of the skins in pursuit but I doubt he'll take that job.
Quez
Footballguy
I think Gruden will return in 2-5 years. It's not like he wouldn't be able to get another TV gig if he were to fail. I am sure a guy like him still puts in way more work than the few hours we see him on tv. If anything the TV job is preparing him better for coaching. He is constantly studying different teams, and talking with players & coaches. His QB camp allows him to spend time with all of the top QBs.
I wouldn't be surprised if he grabs a few re-tread QBs that weren't playing to their full potential, and turns them into stars. He was able to get some good games out of vets many wrote off in Tampa.
There is a rumor that the reason he got fired was because he blew up at the Glaziers in a post season meeting for not spending any money on free agents. If he were to come back I would expect him to be very selective on his destination.
-owner willing to spend money on free agents
-big market team
-some good pieces in place already. I don't think he wants to rebuild.
-probably going to want "final say" so he would need a "yes man" gm
-a team in a good cap position. Tampa was in horrible shape when he took it over.
He has also said something about his kids in the past when asked about coaching. I think they are about college age or close to it, so maybe when they all move out he would give coaching another shot.
Here is my list of likely places,
-Oak
-SD
-NY
-Dal
-Cle - not big market, but that was his favorite team growing up in Ohio
-Mia
I wouldn't be surprised if he grabs a few re-tread QBs that weren't playing to their full potential, and turns them into stars. He was able to get some good games out of vets many wrote off in Tampa.
There is a rumor that the reason he got fired was because he blew up at the Glaziers in a post season meeting for not spending any money on free agents. If he were to come back I would expect him to be very selective on his destination.
-owner willing to spend money on free agents
-big market team
-some good pieces in place already. I don't think he wants to rebuild.
-probably going to want "final say" so he would need a "yes man" gm
-a team in a good cap position. Tampa was in horrible shape when he took it over.
He has also said something about his kids in the past when asked about coaching. I think they are about college age or close to it, so maybe when they all move out he would give coaching another shot.
Here is my list of likely places,
-Oak
-SD
-NY
-Dal
-Cle - not big market, but that was his favorite team growing up in Ohio
-Mia
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bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
I think he would fit great in Detroit, mentor n tutor Stafford
lod01
Footballguy
Not so sure Gruden can tutor any QB. The only one he ever said something really bad about was Gabbert.
All the rest, Gruden: 'I'd love to have this guy on my team. He's what we call a insert word that makes no sense'
Braktastic
Footballguy
Speaking of Gruden, I thought his brother Jay was supposed to be a hot head coaching candidate. :crickets:
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
well he is still in the playoffs, so maybe some of these teams are waiting until they are eliminated
Braktastic
Footballguy
I guess. You'd think you'd hear at least some leaks of teams being "interested". I think I saw a small blurb about the Vikings being interested. I think he'd do well in Detroit. The Lions need a QB-friendly coach if they're going to make the most of Stafford.
Warhogs
Footballguy
How much thought process is put into who we will hire next when a team fires the head coach? Do you think these moves are made because organizations have someone in mind or is it a GM thinking they have to fire the head coach or they may go? I ask this because it seems to me some teams fire a coach and then start thinking who do I want to hire now? To me it may make more sense to keep a coach an extra year if you don't see any great candidates instead of firing and hiring and then locking into this new guy for at least a couple of seasons.
Had teams made a change last year Andy Reid was available and did a nice job with Kansas City. I personally think Lovie Smith is a pretty decent coach and I like that hiring. I live in Western WI and hear all the Minnesota news and they just appear like a franchise that said the coach has to go and they are just starting to come up with a what's next plan. That certainly could be wrong but if they don't have a guy they really liked in mind maybe they would have been better off giving Frasier one more year and then determine a great guy to take over if the Vikings had another bad year.
Had teams made a change last year Andy Reid was available and did a nice job with Kansas City. I personally think Lovie Smith is a pretty decent coach and I like that hiring. I live in Western WI and hear all the Minnesota news and they just appear like a franchise that said the coach has to go and they are just starting to come up with a what's next plan. That certainly could be wrong but if they don't have a guy they really liked in mind maybe they would have been better off giving Frasier one more year and then determine a great guy to take over if the Vikings had another bad year.
QuizGuy66
Footballguy
I think it varies. Sometimes a coach has so lost the team that the coach just has to go. Other times it's love the one you're with. Imagine if Cowher dropped strong hints that he wanted back in and wanted a big spotlight. In that case Woody would have probably dropped Rex like a bad nickel.
-QG
-QG
Bumping this
I've heard that Coughlin is upset and "I've never seen him like this" twice now.
I think it's possible he resigns.
Here's an article from the end of the season http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york-giants/post/_/id/33096/how-long-will-coughlin-want-to-do-this
There really is a bunch of discussion out there about Coughlin's disappointment.
His guys are leaving via free agency or retiring (turnover is 30-35 players) his friends on staff are getting replaced.
They've put him in a lame duck role now.
He seems like he's going to finish his contract, he's committed to it, but at the same time like they're pulling the life out of him.
I'm not saying he resigns. I'm saying I think it's still possible.
QuizGuy66
Footballguy
So looking at these jobs now that all but one has been filled.
1. Houston got their guy in O'Brien and in quick order - desirable job and desirable coach.
2. Detroit - Looks like I was a bit wrong here since they lost out on Whisenhunt due to money. I sense this is more on the Lions than the Titans - the fact that it took an extra $1 million to hire him away though probably serves to illustrate how good the situation there is for a coach. Situation good. Ownership perhaps a little cheap - would downgrade a bit. Glad for Caldwell, though.
3. I stand by 3, Perhaps I move this spot ahead of Detroit now
4. Minnesota. Seems like Zimmer was the guy they wanted all along though it also seems like other coaches may have seen them as lower on this list compared to say Tennessee. Maybe I shoulda flip-flopped with the Titans. I think Zimmer is gonna do well here.
* - Oops just realized that I never ranked Tenessee as he got fired after I made this list. I think the commitment ownership showed and maybe a sense of the situation would probably have put it ahead of Minnesota anyway, but that's all 20/20 hindsight.
5. I like the Lovie signing - respected pro coming after a guy in Schiano who was a little dubious in terms of his acumen for being a head coach in the pros as compared to college. Lovie is sort of a retread which may have made him less sexy to the teams higher on the list.
6. Washington. Total love-fest with Gruden and they surely outbid everyone to get him (5 year contract speaks to that) - of course Snyder lives to pay ex-coaches money. I stand by my original ranking of this job. I wish Gruden well, he was decent with the Bengals (though I'm happy to have Hue replace him as I think Gruden ran his course), but it seems like typical Snyder.
7. Cleveland. The fact that nobody wants this job - that even with no other options left coaches are pulling their name from consideration even - says it all about where this job ranks in terms of NFL thinking.
So over all I think my rankings were pretty good
-QG
Here's some more
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/giants/giants-fire-pope-link-4-super-bowl-teams-article-1.1580225
(Plenty more articles on these two)
The written statement through the team sounds like the "company line" and since when do coaches make written statements?
His quotes of when he speaks, he flat out raves about the coaches they fired.
Did you see McEdoo(sp?) statement was "he's the best man for the job?" Yeah that's totally how he felt about Gilbride a week or two ago.
Again, possibly next up- we're going to cut your son in law to save cap $ unless you get him to retire.
(Snee also has the option to opt out)
Everyone is "forced retirement" and they accept and if not then fired. It's all very curious.
In the least, I expect a book after he retires won't include shiny happy people at this time.
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
I dont think he will, and it probably wouldnt work out for him, how long can a guy stay away? The burnout these coaches suffer is pretty bad, long hours, no off-season for coaches (really) and it seems once they hit the booth or studio , they never return
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