Coaching Youth Sports - Crazy ### Parents (1 Viewer)

[walnutz]

I call both football (American) and basketball.  There are a lot of differences between those two sports and in football, it also depends on the position you are officiating.  In a basketball game, you have to deal with the coaches as they are often times standing right next to you or literally talking into your ear from 2 feet away.  Fans aren't much further and sometimes are almost impossible to ignore.

In football, on the sidelines you hear even more from the coach than a basketball game and you can't get away from them as often.  However, the positions in the middle of the field are much like described in soccer above and unless a coach is calling out to you specifically, you typically don't respond.  However, football has a lot of "dead ball" time where it is easier to have conversations between every play if needed.

I hear ya Jayrod. I have been the 4th official for a number of games as well - this is the guy who stands on the sideline and manages the technical areas as well as takes all the ribbing from the coaches - blah blah blah. I have heard some entertaining things but the standard response is the guy in the middle saw it differently. I will talk to him/her at halftime and raise your concerns. You really have to learn to manage all the people and personalities on the field. Depending on what level the fans can be right on top of the assistant referees etc. 

 

[mr. furley]

if you're a parent that wants to help coach your little kids.. especially those that are entering their first year of organized team activities.... thank you. 

however, if you're a parent that played the sport in HS/college and/or who continues to play rec league, take a good long look at yourself, your expectations and what your child is actually capable of first.

these kids are 6 & 7. some are turning 6 this summer. half the team has never played any sport before. some of them can't even kick the ball without whiffing or falling. 

so when i tell the kids to line up to practice throw-ins, and begin to explain what it is, why we do it and how to properly throw the ball, don't ask me if we're going to teach them how to run up and throw the ball with power & maybe see if some of the kids can execute a flip, roll & throw.

they... they can't.

i'm thrilled that you're here with your soon to be 6 year old "leader" of a son & thanks for your help. makes it a lot easier to herd 14 cats than if i were do try by myself but... no, they aren't going to be able to dribble the ball with their feet without it touching the ground for 20 seconds. no they aren't going to be learning headers. no they probably aren't going to be able to aim their shots on goal. no they aren't going to be rocketing shots from the top of the goalie box. no they aren't going to sprint through the drills. 

and... no... your special little flower isn't a "leader", he's just a petulant & bossy 5 year old. there is a difference. if he's going to pout, shout and try to manipulate me like he does you.. he's just not going to play. 

 

[Bull Dozier]

if you're a parent that wants to help coach your little kids.. especially those that are entering their first year of organized team activities.... thank you. 

however, if you're a parent that played the sport in HS/college and/or who continues to play rec league, take a good long look at yourself, your expectations and what your child is actually capable of first.

these kids are 6 & 7. some are turning 6 this summer. half the team has never played any sport before. some of them can't even kick the ball without whiffing or falling. 

so when i tell the kids to line up to practice throw-ins, and begin to explain what it is, why we do it and how to properly throw the ball, don't ask me if we're going to teach them how to run up and throw the ball with power & maybe see if some of the kids can execute a flip, roll & throw.

they... they can't.

i'm thrilled that you're here with your soon to be 6 year old "leader" of a son & thanks for your help. makes it a lot easier to herd 14 cats than if i were do try by myself but... no, they aren't going to be able to dribble the ball with their feet without it touching the ground for 20 seconds. no they aren't going to be learning headers. no they probably aren't going to be able to aim their shots on goal. no they aren't going to be rocketing shots from the top of the goalie box. no they aren't going to sprint through the drills. 

and... no... your special little flower isn't a "leader", he's just a petulant & bossy 5 year old. there is a difference. if he's going to pout, shout and try to manipulate me like he does you.. he's just not going to play. 

This is all 100% and spot on.  But the opposite also drives me crazy.

If you are dropping your 7 year old off and practice, not sticking around to help, and haven't ever played catch with him in the back yard, or hit a ball off a t with him, or soft tossed a ball to him ever, don't expect me in my 2-3 hours a week I have to practice with 15 kids to be able to teach him power to the opposite field.  It drove me crazy when I coached machine pitch (which was kids coming out of 2nd and 3rd grade around here) I could spot those kids who had never played catch in the backyard and had price tags hanging off their brand new but not broken in glove, and the parents would ask why their kid isn't hitting at the top of the lineup or not playing first base as much as other kids.

 

[shadyridr]

This is all 100% and spot on.  But the opposite also drives me crazy.

If you are dropping your 7 year old off and practice, not sticking around to help, and haven't ever played catch with him in the back yard, or hit a ball off a t with him, or soft tossed a ball to him ever, don't expect me in my 2-3 hours a week I have to practice with 15 kids to be able to teach him power to the opposite field.  It drove me crazy when I coached machine pitch (which was kids coming out of 2nd and 3rd grade around here) I could spot those kids who had never played catch in the backyard and had price tags hanging off their brand new but not broken in glove, and the parents would ask why their kid isn't hitting at the top of the lineup or not playing first base as much as other kids.

I'm in my 2nd year managing. Last year (7 & 8 year olds) I had a lot of bad players, kids that didnt even wanna be there and I rotated players a lot. This year (8 & 9) I am rotating far less. I basically told the parents in the beginning of the season the kids that can't field grounders are not going to play infield much. It has nothing to do with winning or losing but I cant let the few decent pitchers I have battle through constant misplays. They all seemed to understand my message. We have 13 kids. All have to bat and they each have to play at least 3 innings in the field. I basically play the same infield through most of the game and rotate outfielders. I try to find an inning here or there infield for outfielders in blow outs. My lineup has the bad hitters at the bottom every game. That's how all the other coaches do it too. We practice but there is only so much these kids can improve during practice and the one grounder they may get in a game isn't going to change much. So far no parent has complained to me. I definitely have been lucky with parents in my two years so far but it is rec league and not travel. Im sure things would be different in travel.

I do have another complaint though. The league asked me if I wanted to schedule a makeup game for one of our rainouts this Friday. It would be our 3rd game in the week and the second of a back to back so all our good pitchers would be unavailable. I already know going in we are going to lose but I figured it would be a good opportunity to try out some new kids at pitcher and play some new kids in the infield and with only 9 showing up get more at-bats. It can only HELP the kids. One of the parents (who is also my friend and a coach) said we shouldn't even play and its gonna be hard on the kids. That annoyed me a little. Yeah I know we are going to lose but here I was thinking I am doing a good thing getting the kids more chances. The records don't really matter. Everyone makes the playoffs. I don't see the downside. His kid is one of the worst ones on the team so he should be thankful for more at-bats, chances to improve, etc. Am I wrong here?

 

[Godsbrother]

I say ignore the email and let his girl bat and pitch first next game and then tell all the parents who complain about that to talk to him about it.

I was captain for a men's beer league softball team for 20 years.  One night during a game I had our worst guy come up to me and say "I wish I could play 3B" and I said "I wish you could too".   I didn't mean it as a joke , it just came out that way, but the whole team heard it and busted out laughing.

He took it well and as we warmed up for the next game I told him I was going to give him a couple innings at 3rd.  He got that deer-in-headlights look and right as we were about to take the field told me that he just wanted to catch.   He never asked to play any other position... 

 

[Beef Ravioli]

It depends on the sport, the level of play and the way the game has gone to that point.  My best advice is pick your spots.  If a coach is arguing about everything from the beginning, I tune them out real quick.  If I know a coach is arguing out of hope rather than knowledge (as in a play there is no way they could have seen), they have no credibility.  If you are very certain you are right and especially if there are repeated offenses, then by all means, bring it to their attention.

As a general rule, the best way is to ask a question.  Every ref is (or should be) taught to answer questions from coaches as part of their job.  Also, you can explain what you are seeing that is different from what is being called.  Dead ball is usually the best time, but that isn't always easy to pull off.

Something like, "What did you see on that play?" or "What did my player do wrong there?" can simply be conversation starters.  Then you could point out, "it looked to me like he is moving under my shooter" or "I saw him take 3 steps from here."  As long as you approach them respectfully and are willing to at least listen, you have a chance to get their attention to something. 

If you argue and whine and are disrespectful, it will usually get you nowhere and sometimes backfire if you get the wrong ref (some guys are vengeful).

All in all, it is really a feel and an art form.  Some coaches are great at it and some coaches are universally tuned out from the tip.  For the most part, refs are there to do a job the best they know how.

I agree with @Jayrod and my experience is being the coach who used to argue or at least complain about 95% of the calls against me. I would never ref a sport because I know I would reap a lot of crap that I sowed in my short coaching career.  

My first few years of coaching girls high school basketball, in hindsight are embarrassing! We were good and won a lot of games but I was a jerk! I coached 7 seasons in 8 years. I took a one year break after my 3rd season and when I came back I decided I was going to be much more calm. I enjoyed it so much more, the refs all liked me much better and my players enjoyed it much more! 

Ironically it was during this second stint as a coach (the calm years) that I got my only technical foul in my 7 years of coaching. We had a ref that was terrible. I didn’t say much all game but in the 4th quarter my best player, who was getting killed all game, finally got a call to go for her. As he was walking from the scorers table back to the foul line he was glaring at me, daring me to say something. I did, I got T’d and we moved on. 

Big time respect for most referees! 

 

[dino259]

I'm in my 2nd year managing. Last year (7 & 8 year olds) I had a lot of bad players, kids that didnt even wanna be there and I rotated players a lot. This year (8 & 9) I am rotating far less. I basically told the parents in the beginning of the season the kids that can't field grounders are not going to play infield much. It has nothing to do with winning or losing but I cant let the few decent pitchers I have battle through constant misplays. They all seemed to understand my message. We have 13 kids. All have to bat and they each have to play at least 3 innings in the field. I basically play the same infield through most of the game and rotate outfielders. I try to find an inning here or there infield for outfielders in blow outs. My lineup has the bad hitters at the bottom every game. That's how all the other coaches do it too. We practice but there is only so much these kids can improve during practice and the one grounder they may get in a game isn't going to change much. So far no parent has complained to me. I definitely have been lucky with parents in my two years so far but it is rec league and not travel. Im sure things would be different in travel.

I do have another complaint though. The league asked me if I wanted to schedule a makeup game for one of our rainouts this Friday. It would be our 3rd game in the week and the second of a back to back so all our good pitchers would be unavailable. I already know going in we are going to lose but I figured it would be a good opportunity to try out some new kids at pitcher and play some new kids in the infield and with only 9 showing up get more at-bats. It can only HELP the kids. One of the parents (who is also my friend and a coach) said we shouldn't even play and its gonna be hard on the kids. That annoyed me a little. Yeah I know we are going to lose but here I was thinking I am doing a good thing getting the kids more chances. The records don't really matter. Everyone makes the playoffs. I don't see the downside. His kid is one of the worst ones on the team so he should be thankful for more at-bats, chances to improve, etc. Am I wrong here?

This is something I struggle with for my 11 year olds team.  I feel with your situation being Rec though that it should be more about getting kids to play more positions.

These kids are only 8, 9, 10.  you don't know how they will develop or when so it is hard to make them a 1st baseman or a 2nd baseman.  Our team is a travel team and we still rotate positions a lot unlike most teams we play.  We still have plenty of kids that I am not sure want to be there.  Our first 2 games of the year this past weekend we did not score even 1 run but yet at batting practice at the cages last night there was goofing around, not doing the drill right and half hearted swings.  I don't get it.  You better not cry after the next game when you strike out in your 1 maybe 2 plate appearances.

 

[shadyridr]

This is something I struggle with for my 11 year olds team.  I feel with your situation being Rec though that it should be more about getting kids to play more positions.

These kids are only 8, 9, 10.  you don't know how they will develop or when so it is hard to make them a 1st baseman or a 2nd baseman. 

When I have 5-6 kids who are really really good and 5 or 6 kids who cant field a grounder to save their lives I dont think its fair to let the good kids play in the outfield or the bad kids in the infield. I do rotate within infield among the good kids and try sneak a bad kid in there during blowouts. But we are talking 13 kids, 5 inning games, 1-2 games a week. There are only so many infield innings to go around.Its not even about winning or losing. Its about limiting the # of pitches our pitchers have to make. I have 1 great pitcher and 2 decent pitchers. If they go over their pitch count, the games turn into walkfests and that isnt good for anybody... parents, coaches, and kids in the field.

The leagues here are VERY competitive. Most kids play both rec league and travel. I happen to have only one that plays travel on my team.

 

[General Malaise]

In our litigious society, I would never in a million years let a kid go over his pitch count for any reason.  Same reason I remove players who get kicked in the face in soccer, even if they swear to me they are fine.  I'm not risking anything.

 

[shadyridr]

In our litigious society, I would never in a million years let a kid go over his pitch count for any reason.  Same reason I remove players who get kicked in the face in soccer, even if they swear to me they are fine.  I'm not risking anything.

Other coaches do and lie about it. I never do. Its not even about litigious society. Id rather lose playing by the rules.

 

[Gally]

When I have 5-6 kids who are really really good and 5 or 6 kids who cant field a grounder to save their lives I dont think its fair to let the good kids play in the outfield or the bad kids in the infield. I do rotate within infield among the good kids and try sneak a bad kid in there during blowouts. But we are talking 13 kids, 5 inning games, 1-2 games a week. There are only so many infield innings to go around.Its not even about winning or losing. Its about limiting the # of pitches our pitchers have to make. I have 1 great pitcher and 2 decent pitchers. If they go over their pitch count, the games turn into walkfests and that isnt good for anybody... parents, coaches, and kids in the field.

At that age level it sometimes becomes a safety issue as well.  A kid that cannot pay attention enough in the OF then moving them closer where a ball could hurt if you don't pay attention is a real issue.  This was the reasoning I gave many parents/kids when they complained.  A prime example was a kid that really wanted to play first base.  He couldn't defend himself when warming up so it was a huge safety issue for him to play first.  I explained that in order for him to get a chance he would have to show he could defend himself when we warmed up.  He took one warm up throw off his forehead and then he decided 1B wasn't for him.

I would rotate my weaker players through 2B.  At that level very few balls would go that direction and if they did they were generally slower hit.  By rotating the lesser players into that spot (based on how well they paid attention in the OF) gave everyone a chance to play infield and protect them as best as possible.  It also gave some incentive (to those that wanted to play infield) that if they paid attention in the OF they could get a chance in the infield.

Never allowing this age group to try other positions is a way that pushes them away from the sport and as someone mentioned above you don't really know how kids will develop as they get older and what positions may eventually suit them best. 

 

[General Malaise]

Other coaches do and lie about it. I never do. Its not even about litigious society. Id rather lose playing by the rules.

Well, player safety should always be your number one priority as a coach in any sport.  Going over a pitch count is not taking player safety into consideration at all.  And if you aren't concerned about the litigious nature of our society as it pertains to youth sports, I strongly urge you to reconsider.  There's a reason why all youth coaches are being required to be mandatory reporters for child abuse and why all coaches have to pass concussion training and it ain't just because it's the right thing to do.  CYA, baby.

 

[Bull Dozier]

I'm in my 2nd year managing. Last year (7 & 8 year olds) I had a lot of bad players, kids that didnt even wanna be there and I rotated players a lot. This year (8 & 9) I am rotating far less. I basically told the parents in the beginning of the season the kids that can't field grounders are not going to play infield much. It has nothing to do with winning or losing but I cant let the few decent pitchers I have battle through constant misplays. They all seemed to understand my message. We have 13 kids. All have to bat and they each have to play at least 3 innings in the field. I basically play the same infield through most of the game and rotate outfielders. I try to find an inning here or there infield for outfielders in blow outs. My lineup has the bad hitters at the bottom every game. That's how all the other coaches do it too. We practice but there is only so much these kids can improve during practice and the one grounder they may get in a game isn't going to change much. So far no parent has complained to me. I definitely have been lucky with parents in my two years so far but it is rec league and not travel. Im sure things would be different in travel.

I do have another complaint though. The league asked me if I wanted to schedule a makeup game for one of our rainouts this Friday. It would be our 3rd game in the week and the second of a back to back so all our good pitchers would be unavailable. I already know going in we are going to lose but I figured it would be a good opportunity to try out some new kids at pitcher and play some new kids in the infield and with only 9 showing up get more at-bats. It can only HELP the kids. One of the parents (who is also my friend and a coach) said we shouldn't even play and its gonna be hard on the kids. That annoyed me a little. Yeah I know we are going to lose but here I was thinking I am doing a good thing getting the kids more chances. The records don't really matter. Everyone makes the playoffs. I don't see the downside. His kid is one of the worst ones on the team so he should be thankful for more at-bats, chances to improve, etc. Am I wrong here?

For your first paragraph, it is rec ball so I lean towards rotating everyone as much as possible.  Again, when I coached machine pitch, I had half of the team that eventually went on to play travel baseball, and you could tell they were going to be the good ones already.  The other half were bad to horrible (including that one kid that came to every practice and game in jeans).  I still rotated them through every posistion during the season, other than 1B and C (but only if they couldn't pay attention and protect themselves, I didn't care how bad they were).  When the playoffs rolled around, I was more judicious and strtegic.  Our league had rules of each player needing to play a certain number of innings in the IF and OF.  Not all coaches followed those, but I sure did.  We were third out of six during the regular season, and won the playoffs.  I fully believe the improvement in crunch time was due to all of the kids being taught every position, and getting experience at each position.  Kids do develop during the season, even if it is hard to see sometimes.

As to the second paragraph, I agree with you.  take the extra game and squeeze it in even if it means you struggle.  You can never have enough pitchers at any level, so giving more kids chances to see if they are good, or see if they like it can never hurt.  Depending on your kids' personalities, I would let them know this game is for giving kids chances to try new things and to see how it goes, encourage them to be supportive of each other and make sure they have each others' backs even if things don't go well (that's always one of my main messages anyway, but if things might not go well I try to reinforce).

 

[AcerFC]

Well, this is one I have never seen before

Some maniac paid $1,250 to fly a banner asking for coaches to be fired during a playoff game

 

[Cjw_55106]

We have had exactly 2 league games (double header Friday) and 5 tournament games this weekend. So we are 3 days into games this year and our first parent complaint email about playing time. We only have 11 girls and didn’t cut anyone. Naturally, the girl in question is not only the worst player on the team, but also a miserable person. The kind of girl that instantly instills a negative attitude no matter the situation. FWIW, we are talking about 14u traveling girls softball. As an added bonus, the parents have not been to any of the games. I also stated at the parent meeting that the first contact should be from the player if they have any issues. These girls are 4 months from high school and need to advocate for themselves. If after that conversation they are not satisfied, I’ll talk with the parents. 

Of course, I’d like to tell him to F-off and suggest he volunteer his time coaching, but that’s generally frowned upon. Sooooo, what’s the play here? 

I should add, we bat the entire lineup and she has played about 60% of the time in the field. We do have many girls that never sit. 

So, the issue came up again when the girl and her dad approached the guy I coach with. Naturally, he was caught off guard and gave them answers they didnt want to hear.....a week later, an email shows up. Again, whats the play? My initial answers are in bold (havent sent the email yet). Note...this email will actually come from the other coach, but he likes me to send him answers first. 

Thank you for your response. Based on the examples that you shared and the conversation you had with "Susan", we have some concerns we would like to share with you. 

The initial reason you gave to Susan for her playing every other inning is that you want to win. Susan walked away from that conversation with the message that she is not valuable to the team and not wanted on the team. This is especially the message that was sent when she has continued to play every other inning throughout the season even in games where the outcome was never in doubt. 

I’m sorry Susan feels that way. Truth be told, I was caught off guard when confronted and simply told you our feelings. Either way, if you look at the schedule, very few games were never in doubt.

The other reason she was given for playing every other inning is her attitude. However, she has been sitting every other inning since the beginning of the year. She wasn’t ever given an opportunity to prove herself. Instead she was made to feel like she isn’t a valuable member of the team. 

Her “attitude” has been present all season, starting off in the gym sessions….long before any playing time was established.

It is also important for you to consider that not all kids are naturally overtly enthusiastic. Susan has a bit of an aloof personality. What can some times appear as uninterested or lack of enthusiasm is just her being her. Note that even prior to our conversation, she has actually gone out of her comfort zone to lead cheers in several of the last games. 

Enthusiasm isn’t necessarily the issue. What we see as uninterested, you see as an aloof personality. Ultimately, its just a parsing of words. Its impossible for us to tell which kids are not paying attention and which are simply aloof. As was also mentioned to you previously, she had her backpack on and was standing after the game while every other girl on the team was sitting for our meeting. Honestly, I have a hard time chalking that up as aloof. 

Since the beginning of the season, Susan has repeatedly come home from games wondering why she is even on the team. As you can imagine this has been frustrating for all of us. We want her to enjoy playing softball.  

 

[shadyridr]

The initial reason you gave to Susan for her playing every other inning is that you want to win. Susan walked away from that conversation with the message that she is not valuable to the team and not wanted on the team. This is especially the message that was sent when she has continued to play every other inning throughout the season even in games where the outcome was never in doubt. 

Did you actually tell her this? Yikes

 

[Cjw_55106]

Did you actually tell her this? Yikes

I didnt, but yes, it was stated in some way by the other coach. Likely along the lines of we play the girls that give us the best chance of winning. Like I said, he was caught off guard and didnt really come up with a way to sugar coat it. I wish it wasnt stated that way, but sometimes when you initiate conflict of sorts, you dont get the answers you were looking for. 

 

[shadyridr]

I didnt, but yes, it was stated in some way by the other coach. Likely along the lines of we play the girls that give us the best chance of winning. Like I said, he was caught off guard and didnt really come up with a way to sugar coat it. I wish it wasnt stated that way, but sometimes when you initiate conflict of sorts, you dont get the answers you were looking for. 

Sorry I misread who said it. Still hard to really take back at this point.

 

[Godsbrother]

So, the issue came up again when the girl and her dad approached the guy I coach with. Naturally, he was caught off guard and gave them answers they didnt want to hear.....a week later, an email shows up. Again, whats the play? My initial answers are in bold (havent sent the email yet). Note...this email will actually come from the other coach, but he likes me to send him answers first. 

Thank you for your response. Based on the examples that you shared and the conversation you had with "Susan", we have some concerns we would like to share with you. 

The initial reason you gave to Susan for her playing every other inning is that you want to win. Susan walked away from that conversation with the message that she is not valuable to the team and not wanted on the team. This is especially the message that was sent when she has continued to play every other inning throughout the season even in games where the outcome was never in doubt. 

I’m sorry Susan feels that way. Truth be told, I was caught off guard when confronted and simply told you our feelings. Either way, if you look at the schedule, very few games were never in doubt.

The other reason she was given for playing every other inning is her attitude. However, she has been sitting every other inning since the beginning of the year. She wasn’t ever given an opportunity to prove herself. Instead she was made to feel like she isn’t a valuable member of the team. 

Her “attitude” has been present all season, starting off in the gym sessions….long before any playing time was established.

It is also important for you to consider that not all kids are naturally overtly enthusiastic. Susan has a bit of an aloof personality. What can some times appear as uninterested or lack of enthusiasm is just her being her. Note that even prior to our conversation, she has actually gone out of her comfort zone to lead cheers in several of the last games. 

Enthusiasm isn’t necessarily the issue. What we see as uninterested, you see as an aloof personality. Ultimately, its just a parsing of words. Its impossible for us to tell which kids are not paying attention and which are simply aloof. As was also mentioned to you previously, she had her backpack on and was standing after the game while every other girl on the team was sitting for our meeting. Honestly, I have a hard time chalking that up as aloof. 

Since the beginning of the season, Susan has repeatedly come home from games wondering why she is even on the team. As you can imagine this has been frustrating for all of us. We want her to enjoy playing softball.  

First off I would have a face to face with the parent,  don't do this via email.   

Also I don't know anything at all about the situation but how much did you try to improve her attitude before and early in the season?   I am not saying that it should be necessary but a coach can have a lot to do with getting the players excited to practice and play.  Some kids are naturally that way, others may need a little more of your attention, and then there are others that just don't want to be there at all and there is nothing that you can do. Maybe that is the case here but young girls are really tough to read and easy to turn off.

Again I am not trying to criticize cause I don't know the situation at all but try to use it as a coaching learning experience.  

And then bench the little brat for the rest of season!

 

[Short Corner]

if you're a parent that wants to help coach your little kids.. especially those that are entering their first year of organized team activities.... thank you. 

however, if you're a parent that played the sport in HS/college and/or who continues to play rec league, take a good long look at yourself, your expectations and what your child is actually capable of first.

these kids are 6 & 7. some are turning 6 this summer. half the team has never played any sport before. some of them can't even kick the ball without whiffing or falling. 

so when i tell the kids to line up to practice throw-ins, and begin to explain what it is, why we do it and how to properly throw the ball, don't ask me if we're going to teach them how to run up and throw the ball with power & maybe see if some of the kids can execute a flip, roll & throw.

they... they can't.

i'm thrilled that you're here with your soon to be 6 year old "leader" of a son & thanks for your help. makes it a lot easier to herd 14 cats than if i were do try by myself but... no, they aren't going to be able to dribble the ball with their feet without it touching the ground for 20 seconds. no they aren't going to be learning headers. no they probably aren't going to be able to aim their shots on goal. no they aren't going to be rocketing shots from the top of the goalie box. no they aren't going to sprint through the drills. 

and... no... your special little flower isn't a "leader", he's just a petulant & bossy 5 year old. there is a difference. if he's going to pout, shout and try to manipulate me like he does you.. he's just not going to play. 

Best advice I got before coaching the really young ones:

First thing you need to understand - they all suck.  Second thing you need to understand, after the season, they are stlill going to suck.  Your job is to keep it intersting and fun.

 

[Gally]

First off I would have a face to face with the parent,  don't do this via email.   

Also I don't know anything at all about the situation but how much did you try to improve her attitude before and early in the season?   I am not saying that it should be necessary but a coach can have a lot to do with getting the players excited to practice and play.  Some kids are naturally that way, others may need a little more of your attention, and then there are others that just don't want to be there at all and there is nothing that you can do. Maybe that is the case here but young girls are really tough to read and easy to turn off.

Again I am not trying to criticize cause I don't know the situation at all but try to use it as a coaching learning experience.  

And then bench the little brat for the rest of season!

I completely agree with the bolded.  At this point email is not the way to go because many things can be taken with the wrong tone and make things worse.  I also think sitting down with the kid before or after practice and outlining a set of things that you are looking for as a coach that will help her earn more playing time.  I would also let the parents know that you have provided the player with an outline of things you are looking for her to do in order to improve and earn more playing time.  Once you have specified what is required by the player you can point to those items if she falls short as to the reasons why the playing time is not increasing (or she takes it to heart and improves and earns more playing time). 

 

[Cjw_55106]

Sorry I misread who said it. Still hard to really take back at this point.

Correct, it cant be taken back. The issue is, I'm stuck in the middle of a coach who is a good guy, but doesnt mince words and is blunt to others and a parent that always has an excuse for their daughter. 

 

[Cjw_55106]

First off I would have a face to face with the parent,  don't do this via email.   

Also I don't know anything at all about the situation but how much did you try to improve her attitude before and early in the season?   I am not saying that it should be necessary but a coach can have a lot to do with getting the players excited to practice and play.  Some kids are naturally that way, others may need a little more of your attention, and then there are others that just don't want to be there at all and there is nothing that you can do. Maybe that is the case here but young girls are really tough to read and easy to turn off.

Again I am not trying to criticize cause I don't know the situation at all but try to use it as a coaching learning experience.  

And then bench the little brat for the rest of season!

Yeah, the email came from the parent after they didnt like what they heard during the ambush. Obviously the first face to face was pretty negative.

The second paragraph, I'm likely guilty of not trying. I had her on a team two seasons ago and she was the same way. There is only so much you can do and when she had the same attitude on day 1 this year that she had two years ago.....well, here we are today. The bottom line from my perspective is, she has an "in-house" attitude on a travel team and it doesnt work. 

LoL at benching. If I had to guess, we've played about 75 innings defensively this year and she's probably played in 50 of them.

 

[CletiusMaximus]

Did you actually tell her this? Yikes

One issue with kids sports in my experience is that there's a transition from the "everyone plays equal time" approach at 6-7-8 to the "we want to win games" approach at 13-14-15.  This is especially true for a club team or "travelling" team where parents are paying fees and making a big investment of time and effort.  For better or worse, parents want to win games. Sadly, this takes precedence over technical or tactical development.  Kids and parents have to get comfortable at some point along the way that equal playing time gives way to having the best players on the field when the game is in question. Perhaps the message could have been delivered with more tact, but that quote is the dad para-phrasing, not what was actually said.  At U14, in response to a complaint about playing time, it is reasonable for a coach to reference the fact that the goal is to win games and that means he puts the best players out there.

 

[Peak]

One issue with kids sports in my experience is that there's a transition from the "everyone plays equal time" approach at 6-7-8 to the "we want to win games" approach at 13-14-15.  This is especially true for a club team or "travelling" team where parents are paying fees and making a big investment of time and effort. 

My child's team is experiencing this now, and unfortunately the lesser skilled child belongs to a coach on the team.  The hardest part I have is managing that conversation with the coach/parent.  It's a hard conversation to have, but at some point you have to decide why your child is on the team.  It is a big investment of time, money, and effort to participate in a travelling sports program.  Are you investing all of that so your child can "participate", or are you investing all of that so that your child can grow and improve their skills?  Our team's goal is to help the children improve their skills and prepare for HS baseball and tryouts.  If they are learning and improving, then that effort translates to wins on the field - and everyone likes to win (parents, kids, coaches, etc).  But if little Johnny isn't learning or improving, that does impact the team and the morale of the other kids on the team. 

To your point, there is a transition time somewhere around that 11-12 mark.  We are right at that mark now, and struggling how to have these conversations with those parents (coaches) whose child isn't as skilled as the other kids on the team.  There are some who understand and others who turn a blind eye to it and think their child is the best on the team.  Unfortunately, it's the oblivious ones who make the conversation more difficult than it has to be, IMO.

I have heard two arguments, and can understand both sides - but then I feel it's up to the HC to determine what's right for the team.  Do you spend the time, money and effort to ensure your child has equal playing time, or do you spend the time, money and effort to ensure your child continues to grow face new challenges/competitions?  If all children had equal skill levels, it's an easy question to answer.  Unfortunately not every kid has equal skill, or desires to learn said skills.

 

[Todem]

My child's team is experiencing this now, and unfortunately the lesser skilled child belongs to a coach on the team.  The hardest part I have is managing that conversation with the coach/parent.  It's a hard conversation to have, but at some point you have to decide why your child is on the team.  It is a big investment of time, money, and effort to participate in a travelling sports program.  Are you investing all of that so your child can "participate", or are you investing all of that so that your child can grow and improve their skills?  Our team's goal is to help the children improve their skills and prepare for HS baseball and tryouts.  If they are learning and improving, then that effort translates to wins on the field - and everyone likes to win (parents, kids, coaches, etc).  But if little Johnny isn't learning or improving, that does impact the team and the morale of the other kids on the team. 

To your point, there is a transition time somewhere around that 11-12 mark.  We are right at that mark now, and struggling how to have these conversations with those parents (coaches) whose child isn't as skilled as the other kids on the team.  There are some who understand and others who turn a blind eye to it and think their child is the best on the team.  Unfortunately, it's the oblivious ones who make the conversation more difficult than it has to be, IMO.

I have heard two arguments, and can understand both sides - but then I feel it's up to the HC to determine what's right for the team.  Do you spend the time, money and effort to ensure your child has equal playing time, or do you spend the time, money and effort to ensure your child continues to grow face new challenges/competitions?  If all children had equal skill levels, it's an easy question to answer.  Unfortunately not every kid has equal skill, or desires to learn said skills.

My assistant coach's son is the 11th out of 12th player on our roster skill wise. His son knows this too. We are a 14U team as of August. His son comes off the bench a lot and plays 3-4 innings, sometimes more or less depending the game and situation. His role is defined and his dad is also cool with it. We are a competitive team, but our primary goal is high school development, and teaching young men how to be teammates, play for each other and compete and not win at all costs. There is a balance that can be struck with the right group of kids and parents. We bat 12 in the regular season and we bat 12 in seeding games. Only playoffs and elimination tourney games we bat 10. When we bat 12 we get to rotate kids defensively so everyone can continue to develop and feel like they are contributing.

Some teams are simply 1-10 and the 11th and 12th barely sniff the field. To me....the parents of the 11th and 12th either leave their kids on the team because they have friends on the team (the players) and they simply don't care to "watch their friends" play most of the time while they rot on the bench or they have this dumb "status mentality" about being on a top team but not really being a contributor. 

We added 4 new players already (losing 5 to high school this August) who are great kids, solid ball players, but were those 8-11 kids on top teams that simply were not getting enough reps. Now they have a year left to get ready for freshman year and whoa.....they see the light. They need to play. because even if they make their high school junior varsity team....they will most likely be riding the bench their freshman year unless they are a total stud (which they are not.....yet). I love taking on kids who "get it" in terms of hard work, hustle, and playing team ball and are late developers physically. The disparity between the boys at ages 12-15 is crazy. Some kids are already grown men and have had early puberty.....some are still in their 11 year old body (my son). Yet my son is an All-State USSSA player 2 years running. Why? Hard work, great attitude and yeah he can ball. But he is getting somewhat discouraged about his size. I told him "son I was a late bloomer, you are going to be a late bloomer". I can't stand some of these knuckle headed coaches out there who simply cast aside late developers. What ends up happening is some of them quit before they even have a chance to play in their "man" bodies. I took on 4 kids 2 who are average size, one who is small like my son and another who is a big strong kid but needs good coaching and more importantly mental coaching and developing a true approach at the plate and on the mound and field. 

But back to the point. All these kids are going to play a lot. A lot more than they did on their previous team. We may not be a top team. But we are a solid AAA team that will compete. Win some, lose some. But development for these boys will be great. They will play a lot. And that's fun. Then when they get to high school they will have the drive and confidence to compete and wait "their turn" to play.

And BTW.....when you have a head coach whose son is not good and might be the worst on the team....sorry folks. He is putting in his time and energy into the team and if you don't like it. Leave. Go form your own team. Or suck it up. You don't have to stay. So you pay money. That's your choice. Know what you are getting into. 

I have seen plenty of teams where the head coach's son stinks. Well...you got yourself into that by joining a team like that. Go find another team. Or you can do what most parents around here do. They over throw the guy and get their own coach or take over the team. happens all the time.

Travel ball is ugly. I don't like a lot of the BS around it. I was able to really get a special group of kids and parents here in my last rodeo with it. I am lucky. But a lot go from team to team. it is common place in South Florida.

 

[Cjw_55106]

Ultimately, I didn't send the email to my other coach. i instead replied with:

I typed out a response, responding to each point. After sitting on it, i thought, whats the point? What is the end result we are hoping to achieve? Ultimately, the dad makes excuses for his daughter and the coaches don't think she deserves more playing time. If we decide nothing needs changing right now, we dont have to. If we want to give her things she can work on, cool. However, at that point, we'd have to be prepared to play her more if she improves on things. Is that part of the end result we are looking for? 

 

[Todem]

Ultimately, I didn't send the email to my other coach. i instead replied with:

I typed out a response, responding to each point. After sitting on it, i thought, whats the point? What is the end result we are hoping to achieve? Ultimately, the dad makes excuses for his daughter and the coaches don't think she deserves more playing time. If we decide nothing needs changing right now, we dont have to. If we want to give her things she can work on, cool. However, at that point, we'd have to be prepared to play her more if she improves on things. Is that part of the end result we are looking for? 

Never email parents.

Never.

Always talk in person.

 

[Cjw_55106]

Never email parents.

Never.

Always talk in person.

I was emailing the other coach, but thanks. 

 

[Gally]

Ultimately, I didn't send the email to my other coach. i instead replied with:

I typed out a response, responding to each point. After sitting on it, i thought, whats the point? What is the end result we are hoping to achieve? Ultimately, the dad makes excuses for his daughter and the coaches don't think she deserves more playing time. If we decide nothing needs changing right now, we dont have to. If we want to give her things she can work on, cool. However, at that point, we'd have to be prepared to play her more if she improves on things. Is that part of the end result we are looking for? 

I have no idea what your history is other than the couple of posts here but if parents/player have questions about play time the best thing to do is outline what the player needs to do to improve and earn more playing time.  You may have other had the conversation I am about to describe but just saying "we are trying to win and you aren't as good as other players" is not constructive and doesn't help the situation.  You need to outline to the player how they can get better and what they need to do to earn more playing time.  That is fair for everyone and gives you a specific path to what you are looking for in a player.  Some of which can be attitude based (cheering for your teammates, staying focused during games when not playing etc.).  Much of the time attitude is more important that skill level and that also needs to be conveyed.

 

[Skipdog77]

Ultimately, I didn't send the email to my other coach. i instead replied with:

I typed out a response, responding to each point. After sitting on it, i thought, whats the point? What is the end result we are hoping to achieve? Ultimately, the dad makes excuses for his daughter and the coaches don't think she deserves more playing time. If we decide nothing needs changing right now, we dont have to. If we want to give her things she can work on, cool. However, at that point, we'd have to be prepared to play her more if she improves on things. Is that part of the end result we are looking for? 

No offense, but isn't this what a coach is supposed to do?

If you don't want her to improve her skills and increase her playing time then what is your end game? Just to win games? Wouldn't a player with improving skills help in that regard? 

 

[Cjw_55106]

Apparently the coach’s reply didnt get back to the parent quick enough. Dad sent another email outlining the association’s stance on playing time. He was sure to add in a “it seems you are unaware”. 

Naturally, dad is wrong again. What he was quoting clearly indicated 12u and under. We are 14u where it indicates players must play at least 3 defensive innings a game. Of course, this would assume the games are a full 7 innings, which we never play because of time limits. It seems playing her for half the games (or more) is well within the guidelines. 

 

[Cjw_55106]

No offense, but isn't this what a coach is supposed to do?

If you don't want her to improve her skills and increase her playing time then what is your end game? Just to win games? Wouldn't a player with improving skills help in that regard? 

You would be correct and no offense taken. That said, most of the issues with her are not skill related, but attitude and effort. Odds of her helping the team win due to skill are low as well...but that wasn’t our main issue. 

 

[Short Corner]

Never email parents.

Never.

Always talk in person.

I always email or text.  I want a record of what was said.

 

[Gally]

I always email or text.  I want a record of what was said.

Depends on the subject and where things have escalated.  Things can be misinterpreted in email/text and unnecessarily escalate issues when there really might not be an issue.  Documentation is usually something that happens after things have been escalated. 

 

[Skipdog77]

You would be correct and no offense taken. That said, most of the issues with her are not skill related, but attitude and effort. Odds of her helping the team win due to skill are low as well...but that wasn’t our main issue. 

Got it.  Seen that many times myself, in hockey.  Sometimes getting a kid to see things a different way and helping to change their attitude and mental approach to the game can be more rewarding than the skill development.

You may never get through, but it's good when you do. 

 

[Angry Beavers]

if you're a parent that wants to help coach your little kids.. especially those that are entering their first year of organized team activities.... thank you. 

however, if you're a parent that played the sport in HS/college and/or who continues to play rec league, take a good long look at yourself, your expectations and what your child is actually capable of first.

these kids are 6 & 7. some are turning 6 this summer. half the team has never played any sport before. some of them can't even kick the ball without whiffing or falling. 

so when i tell the kids to line up to practice throw-ins, and begin to explain what it is, why we do it and how to properly throw the ball, don't ask me if we're going to teach them how to run up and throw the ball with power & maybe see if some of the kids can execute a flip, roll & throw.

they... they can't.

i'm thrilled that you're here with your soon to be 6 year old "leader" of a son & thanks for your help. makes it a lot easier to herd 14 cats than if i were do try by myself but... no, they aren't going to be able to dribble the ball with their feet without it touching the ground for 20 seconds. no they aren't going to be learning headers. no they probably aren't going to be able to aim their shots on goal. no they aren't going to be rocketing shots from the top of the goalie box. no they aren't going to sprint through the drills. 

and... no... your special little flower isn't a "leader", he's just a petulant & bossy 5 year old. there is a difference. if he's going to pout, shout and try to manipulate me like he does you.. he's just not going to play. 

 

[Angry Beavers]

It sounds like we have all had similar experiences - parents who drop their kids off, never play catch with them and then don't understand why their kid doesn't play more etc.

@Cjw_55106  whether you email the parent back or not.. .personally I would send a recap email after a verbal conversation if I really thought I needed to create some kind of record, I would outline to the parent that you have followed PT guidelines and what the athlete can do to earn more playing time. The reality is with 14 kids and 9 starters ( or whatever your numbers are) not everyone is going to play the same amount and at 14U you are going to play to win while trying to get everyone some playing time. If that doesn't work for the parent or athlete they can go find another team.......  Good Luck!

 

[Peak]

Here's a fun scenario for you...

Setting: 12U Tournament Game (semi-finals). Only one umpire - behind the plate. These two teams played each other in Pool Play the day before and there were some heated exchanges. The umpire at that game (different umpire) did not eject anyone, but handed out warnings to all involved which carried over into their next set of tournament games on Saturday. Tensions between the teams were already high when they met each other on Sunday.  The Pool Play umpire met with the Semi-Finals umpire to provide an update on what occurred the day prior just so he had a heads up on these two teams.

Situation: Score is 5-2 in 5th inning. Home Team is winning and they are at bat. 1 out, bases loaded, a full count on the batter. The batter hits a grounder to third who fields it cleanly and throws to first. While this was happening the plate umpire lost his balance and fell on his back (either stepping on the catcher or his own two feet, the cause is unknown). The umpire did not see the play at first, only the runner standing on first and the first baseman with the ball. All base-runners advanced one base. 

The umpire, confused and probably still hurting from the fall backwards into the dirt and backstop, calls the runner safe. The visiting team's coaches lost their minds and started yelling/screaming at the umpire that it was a routine ground-out and the runner was out. Umpire said he obviously didn't see it as he fell over. The coaches are still yelling at him showing no concern for the umpire. The umpire points to the first base coach who doesn't say anything - he knows better than to jump into this fray.  The visiting teams coaches and now parents are going ape-#### over the umpire's gesture saying the umpire is giving preferential treatment to the Home team for letting them call the play from the field. The coaches and parents are using expletives and making sailors blush. They accuse the first base coach of telling them to "F" off and one parent begins telling the first base coach to "watch your back in the parking lot". The umpire tells everyone to calm down, but they won't. The home team's HC now gets involved and tries to calm the situation. Nothing is working.  

Solution: The umpire calls for a replay of the at-bat as he didn't see the outcome. The Visiting team coaches are still yelling and cussing. Eventually all parties agree to it. The umpire restarts the at-bat with a clean count. The Visiting team now argues that the batter should have 2 strikes on him to start the at bat. The Home team's coaches now go crazy over the notion. Eventually the umpire calls for a clean slate on the count and restarts the at bat. The batter hits a line drive to center for a single scoring 2 runs. Visiting team's coaches and parents are all visibly upset and going nuts over this outcome. The Home team goes on to score 3 more runs that inning. The Visiting team had one more at bat due to time limit and ended up losing the game 10-2 in 6 innings. 

For those LL Coaches and Umpires reading this thread, was the umpire's decision to do a replay of the at bat the right call?  What happens if the umpire is unable to make a call due to some circumstance (blocked sight, out of position, on his back)? 

Sidenote: some of the parents, myself included, went looking for tournament officials to help de-escalate the situation. Even coaches from other teams watching the game tried to step in and help - nothing would calm down the visiting team coaches/parents. The Visiting team's HC continued to pick fights with the Home team's parents and scorekeeper after the situation was dealt with and play had resumed.  At the end of the game, the teams lined up to shake hands.  Many of the Visiting team's players did not shake hands - none of their coaches did either.  The Home team went on to play in the Championship Game and lost 5-3. 

Future story may be coming as these same two teams are scheduled for a double-header next weekend for their league play. 

 

[Cowboysfan8]

Here's a fun scenario for you...

Setting: 12U Tournament Game (semi-finals). Only one umpire - behind the plate. These two teams played each other in Pool Play the day before and there were some heated exchanges. The umpire at that game (different umpire) did not eject anyone, but handed out warnings to all involved which carried over into their next set of tournament games on Saturday. Tensions between the teams were already high when they met each other on Sunday.  The Pool Play umpire met with the Semi-Finals umpire to provide an update on what occurred the day prior just so he had a heads up on these two teams.

Situation: Score is 5-2 in 5th inning. Home Team is winning and they are at bat. 1 out, bases loaded, a full count on the batter. The batter hits a grounder to third who fields it cleanly and throws to first. While this was happening the plate umpire lost his balance and fell on his back (either stepping on the catcher or his own two feet, the cause is unknown). The umpire did not see the play at first, only the runner standing on first and the first baseman with the ball. All base-runners advanced one base. 

The umpire, confused and probably still hurting from the fall backwards into the dirt and backstop, calls the runner safe. The visiting team's coaches lost their minds and started yelling/screaming at the umpire that it was a routine ground-out and the runner was out. Umpire said he obviously didn't see it as he fell over. The coaches are still yelling at him showing no concern for the umpire. The umpire points to the first base coach who doesn't say anything - he knows better than to jump into this fray.  The visiting teams coaches and now parents are going ape-#### over the umpire's gesture saying the umpire is giving preferential treatment to the Home team for letting them call the play from the field. The coaches and parents are using expletives and making sailors blush. They accuse the first base coach of telling them to "F" off and one parent begins telling the first base coach to "watch your back in the parking lot". The umpire tells everyone to calm down, but they won't. The home team's HC now gets involved and tries to calm the situation. Nothing is working.  

Solution: The umpire calls for a replay of the at-bat as he didn't see the outcome. The Visiting team coaches are still yelling and cussing. Eventually all parties agree to it. The umpire restarts the at-bat with a clean count. The Visiting team now argues that the batter should have 2 strikes on him to start the at bat. The Home team's coaches now go crazy over the notion. Eventually the umpire calls for a clean slate on the count and restarts the at bat. The batter hits a line drive to center for a single scoring 2 runs. Visiting team's coaches and parents are all visibly upset and going nuts over this outcome. The Home team goes on to score 3 more runs that inning. The Visiting team had one more at bat due to time limit and ended up losing the game 10-2 in 6 innings. 

For those LL Coaches and Umpires reading this thread, was the umpire's decision to do a replay of the at bat the right call?  What happens if the umpire is unable to make a call due to some circumstance (blocked sight, out of position, on his back)? 

Sidenote: some of the parents, myself included, went looking for tournament officials to help de-escalate the situation. Even coaches from other teams watching the game tried to step in and help - nothing would calm down the visiting team coaches/parents. The Visiting team's HC continued to pick fights with the Home team's parents and scorekeeper after the situation was dealt with and play had resumed.  At the end of the game, the teams lined up to shake hands.  Many of the Visiting team's players did not shake hands - none of their coaches did either.  The Home team went on to play in the Championship Game and lost 5-3. 

Future story may be coming as these same two teams are scheduled for a double-header next weekend for their league play. 

If it wasn't a close play at first base the batting team's coaches should have admitted to the umpire that the better was out. Obviously

 

[shadyridr]

Here's a fun scenario for you...

Setting: 12U Tournament Game (semi-finals). Only one umpire - behind the plate. These two teams played each other in Pool Play the day before and there were some heated exchanges. The umpire at that game (different umpire) did not eject anyone, but handed out warnings to all involved which carried over into their next set of tournament games on Saturday. Tensions between the teams were already high when they met each other on Sunday.  The Pool Play umpire met with the Semi-Finals umpire to provide an update on what occurred the day prior just so he had a heads up on these two teams.

Situation: Score is 5-2 in 5th inning. Home Team is winning and they are at bat. 1 out, bases loaded, a full count on the batter. The batter hits a grounder to third who fields it cleanly and throws to first. While this was happening the plate umpire lost his balance and fell on his back (either stepping on the catcher or his own two feet, the cause is unknown). The umpire did not see the play at first, only the runner standing on first and the first baseman with the ball. All base-runners advanced one base. 

The umpire, confused and probably still hurting from the fall backwards into the dirt and backstop, calls the runner safe. The visiting team's coaches lost their minds and started yelling/screaming at the umpire that it was a routine ground-out and the runner was out. Umpire said he obviously didn't see it as he fell over. The coaches are still yelling at him showing no concern for the umpire. The umpire points to the first base coach who doesn't say anything - he knows better than to jump into this fray.  The visiting teams coaches and now parents are going ape-#### over the umpire's gesture saying the umpire is giving preferential treatment to the Home team for letting them call the play from the field. The coaches and parents are using expletives and making sailors blush. They accuse the first base coach of telling them to "F" off and one parent begins telling the first base coach to "watch your back in the parking lot". The umpire tells everyone to calm down, but they won't. The home team's HC now gets involved and tries to calm the situation. Nothing is working.  

Solution: The umpire calls for a replay of the at-bat as he didn't see the outcome. The Visiting team coaches are still yelling and cussing. Eventually all parties agree to it. The umpire restarts the at-bat with a clean count. The Visiting team now argues that the batter should have 2 strikes on him to start the at bat. The Home team's coaches now go crazy over the notion. Eventually the umpire calls for a clean slate on the count and restarts the at bat. The batter hits a line drive to center for a single scoring 2 runs. Visiting team's coaches and parents are all visibly upset and going nuts over this outcome. The Home team goes on to score 3 more runs that inning. The Visiting team had one more at bat due to time limit and ended up losing the game 10-2 in 6 innings. 

For those LL Coaches and Umpires reading this thread, was the umpire's decision to do a replay of the at bat the right call?  What happens if the umpire is unable to make a call due to some circumstance (blocked sight, out of position, on his back)? 

Sidenote: some of the parents, myself included, went looking for tournament officials to help de-escalate the situation. Even coaches from other teams watching the game tried to step in and help - nothing would calm down the visiting team coaches/parents. The Visiting team's HC continued to pick fights with the Home team's parents and scorekeeper after the situation was dealt with and play had resumed.  At the end of the game, the teams lined up to shake hands.  Many of the Visiting team's players did not shake hands - none of their coaches did either.  The Home team went on to play in the Championship Game and lost 5-3. 

Future story may be coming as these same two teams are scheduled for a double-header next weekend for their league play. 

Was it a routine groundout? If so home team should have spoke up. Its called sportsmanship.

 

[Gally]

If it wasn't a close play at first base the batting team's coaches should have admitted to the umpire that the better was out. Obviously

I would agree completely.  If I was the umpire I call the two managers over and try and have a civil conversation with them to do the right thing.  If there was no agreement I am not sure what I would have done.  I don't think you can play it over but I am not sure how to make a call without seeing it.  I would probably rely on my instinct based on what I did see and make a call. 

Bottom line is these are 12 yr old kids.  The managers should be ethical enough to make the proper call together and move on. 

 

[Skipdog77]

Was it a routine groundout? If so home team should have spoke up. Its called sportsmanship.

This. Home team had the chance to nullify everything else that happened by admitting what the outcome of the play was when they were asked.  They chose a poor example to set for their players. 

 

[Bull Dozier]

Agree with what others said that if it wasn't a close call, you admit to it being an out.  Easy to say sitting at a keyboard as I've seen otherwise reasonable coaches not make the right decision in the heat of the moment, so I can't fault the coaches for not stepping up and making the call.

I have to imagine there is something in the rules or an umpire's training that addresses making a call in this situation.  I suspect it is that you can't call an out if you don't see it.

The fact that the visiting team didn't score any runs to make those runs count should have settled the issue, though I'm sure those coaches/parents blame the increased deficit on the fact the players couldn't make a run.  I would blame it on the coaches not being focused on the right things.

 

[Joe Summer]

First off, the umpire should have talked to both coaches about the play. Maybe even bring in some players to give them a chance to do the right thing.

Secondly, the umpire should have stopped the game to give a verbal warning to both sidelines. If the visiting team's fans continued to complain, then he should have ejected them. If the ejected fans refused to leave, then he should have summoned the tournament director and declared a forfeit and then ejected the entire team from the tournament.

I've seen it happen.

 

[shadyridr]

Overheard the wife of one of my coaches say "I'm betting this team practices a lot more than we do" as we were getting destroyed. Despite our 3-11 record I actually scheduled more practices than any other team but it doesn't help having 50% participation at every one. My son is the best kid on the team because he is at every practice and i practice with him almost everyday and he has a swing coach. The other teams are loaded with kids from travel. I have one travel kid on my whole team. 

 

[bryhamm]

Was it a routine groundout? If so home team should have spoke up. Its called sportsmanship.

This ... and a very teachable moment about sportsmanship.

 

[Peak]

Was it a routine groundout? If so home team should have spoke up. Its called sportsmanship.

Agreed completely.  I didn't see the play at first.  I was watching the runner from third score (it was my son running). That's when I saw the umpire starting to get to his knees and knew something wasn't right.  No idea if it was a routine play.  The ball was hit right to the 3rd baseman who I saw fielded it cleanly.  Not sure of the throw to first.  Once he made the move to first the runners were advancing.  Now this team has thrown balls over the first baseman's head throughout the game, so there's track record of it not being a clean throw.  But I didn't see it.  I do agree, if he was out, then the base coach should've called it to help out.  I would think the incident the day before between the two coaching staffs was enough that "doing the right thing" kind of went out the window, is my guess.  

Talking to coaches from the other teams in the tournament, the Visiting team's coaches were very confrontational all weekend with all umpires and other teams.  I'm surprised they weren't asked to leave throughout the weekend.  The tournament director ended up staying through the end of our game to make sure there were no other incidents.

 

[Cjw_55106]

Down 3 runs in the 5th, the third basemen has to go home with the ball.

HTH.

 

[glvsav37]

the Ump was at fault for making a distinctive call without actually seeing it. By "guessing" he caused one side to be upset. 

If I was him, you call time, call ni whoever else has authority on the game, coaches, etc. and have a conversation with them. #### happens, and he is human. 

Side note: i'm not an ump, but a hockey official, and that why we dont work any games with only 1 official. Too many situations where you should confirm with your teammate on situations to get the best view on it.