Collusion? You tell me. Had a draft last night... (1 Viewer)

[Skoo]

I was invited to join a $25 PPR league the other day by someone from another forum, hadn't done PPR in a few years so I figured it would be fun.

Absolutely DESTROYED the draft on ESPN last night. Definitely not many sharks in this league, to say the least.

Anyway I wake up this morning to find 2 trades have been accepted, both between the same teams.

Team A gives Matt Forte

Team A gives Emmanuel Sanders

Team B gives Dez Bryant

Team B gives Andrew Hawkins

Now, this is bad enough imo. Forte is better than Dez, and Sanders is WAY better than Hawkins. But, I've seen crazier.

Then 2 hours later another trade is accepted by the same 2 teams:

Team A gives Julio Jones

Team A gives Jonathan Stewart

Team B gives Greg Olsen

Team B gives Lamar Miller

TEam B gives Robert Woods

So basically, on the night of the draft, someone traded Matt Forte and Julio Jones (their top 2 picks) for Dez Bryant and a bunch of crap.

 

[Ghost Rider]

It's usually impossible to prove collusion; some people are just stupid and make stupid trades. Team A definitely seems to have one of those really stupid owners.

Is this all random people, so the two owners likely don't know each other?

I'd be curious to see what the rest of their teams look like.

 

[PatsWillWin]

Clearly collusion. Clearly these guys got together, planned out how they were going to contribute $50 combined to a league, and trade Matt Forte at a somewhat discount and then Julio Jones for a steep discount, all to try and slightly increase their chances of one of them winning a 1st prize payout that is probably around 60% of like a $250 pot, which is a cool profit of $50 each....several months later...if in fact he actually wins the league (which is still statistically unlikely).

Open/shut IMO.

 

[Skoo]

Clearly collusion. Clearly these guys got together, planned out how they were going to contribute $50 combined to a league, and trade Matt Forte at a somewhat discount and then Julio Jones for a steep discount, all to try and slightly increase their chances of one of them winning a 1st prize payout that is probably around 60% of like a $250 pot, which is a cool profit of $50 each....several months later...if in fact he actually wins the league (which is still statistically unlikely).

Open/shut IMO.

So this looks completely normal to you? Wouldn't bother you a bit to see that in your league?

 

[renesauz]

Pretty clear collusion IMO.

 

[Area51Inhabitant]

This is the main reason why I only play in leagues with people that I know.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

Clearly collusion. Clearly these guys got together, planned out how they were going to contribute $50 combined to a league, and trade Matt Forte at a somewhat discount and then Julio Jones for a steep discount, all to try and slightly increase their chances of one of them winning a 1st prize payout that is probably around 60% of like a $250 pot, which is a cool profit of $50 each....several months later...if in fact he actually wins the league (which is still statistically unlikely).

Open/shut IMO.

While it's probably not the best thought out plan, it's very possible this was their plan. The Julio trade was truly awful.

Who would draft Julio Jones in Round 2 and then trade him (with Jon Stewart) for an 8th, 9th and 15th round pick? (Guessing where Miller, Olsen and Woods were drafted but you get the idea).

The first trade I actually have no problem with, the second is at least arguable - but the third is very curious. How do two teams make four trades right after their fantasy draft?

 

[Insein]

I don't see what the problem is. He destroyed the draft of guppies. He should run away with this league regardless of collusion. The guppies found out they were drafting with a Shark and it scared them so much they got together after the draft to figure out some way they could still compete.

I'd be interested in hearing how your league goes this season. Create a new thread called Drafting with Guppies 3.

 

[Pipes]

Stupidity isn't always collusion.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

Stupidity isn't always collusion.

I agree, but looking deeper:

- it's the same two teams and each trade has got incrementally worse;

* Forte for Dez- this trade isn't so terrible but if Team A really preferred Dez to Forte, why didn't he just draft him?

* Sanders for Hawkins - while I'm not a huge Sanders fan, he just exploded last game and now Welker may miss time

* Julio and Stewart for Miller, Olsen and Woods - there's "stupidity" and then there's "indefensible" - would anyone trade a second and an eleventh round pick for and eighth, ninth and fifteenth round pick before the draft? Of course not, why would they hours after the draft?

If I was the OP, it's only a $25 league and if he really crushed the draft like he said, the season is far from over after this, but it does look a little fishy right now.

 

[habsfan]

How do two teams make four trades right after their fantasy draft?

There's a lot here that fails the "sniff test" but this jumped out the most. It sounds like this might be a league where some know each other and some empty spots were filled by people with more distant connections...

 

[PatsWillWin]

If you were going to collude with someone, would you say "hey let's make four incremently worse trades immediately after the draft!" Or would you maybe make a sketchy deal right after, then another one before Week 1, then maybe another after the first week?

How do two teams make four trades right after their fantasy draft?

There's a lot here that fails the "sniff test" but this jumped out the most. It sounds like this might be a league where some know each other and some empty spots were filled by people with more distant connections...

Unless I can't read, there were two trades, and the first one is really not even that bad.

 

[T with T]

Clearly collusion. Clearly these guys got together, planned out how they were going to contribute $50 combined to a league, and trade Matt Forte at a somewhat discount and then Julio Jones for a steep discount, all to try and slightly increase their chances of one of them winning a 1st prize payout that is probably around 60% of like a $250 pot, which is a cool profit of $50 each....several months later...if in fact he actually wins the league (which is still statistically unlikely).

Open/shut IMO.

agreed it is either collusion or the owner of Team A should find a new hobby... Basically gave up forte/julio/emmanuel for Dez/olsen/miller That's terrible.

 

[habsfan]

Clearly collusion. Clearly these guys got together, planned out how they were going to contribute $50 combined to a league, and trade Matt Forte at a somewhat discount and then Julio Jones for a steep discount, all to try and slightly increase their chances of one of them winning a 1st prize payout that is probably around 60% of like a $250 pot, which is a cool profit of $50 each....several months later...if in fact he actually wins the league (which is still statistically unlikely).

Open/shut IMO.

Time will tell if this is true because anyone willing to make the moves they've made so far will surely follow them up with more moves once the inevitable twists and turns of a season start to unfold.

 

[jandyt]

Have trouble believing its not collusion. If A preferred Dez to Forte then they could just picked him. Now they could argue after the draft they decided they were weak at WR. But that explanation fails when they then trade away Sanders and Julio for lesser talent.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

Clearly collusion. Clearly these guys got together, planned out how they were going to contribute $50 combined to a league, and trade Matt Forte at a somewhat discount and then Julio Jones for a steep discount, all to try and slightly increase their chances of one of them winning a 1st prize payout that is probably around 60% of like a $250 pot, which is a cool profit of $50 each....several months later...if in fact he actually wins the league (which is still statistically unlikely).

Open/shut IMO.

Time will tell if this is true because anyone willing to make the moves they've made so far will surely follow them up with more moves once the inevitable twists and turns of a season start to unfold.

It's actually three if you read the OP (I mistakenly said four)

- Dez for Forte

- Hawkins for Sanders

- Olsen, Miller and Woods for Julio and Stewart

Are these two colluding?, honestly I don't know - but it seems fishy based on the story that's been told.

 

[shadyridr]

Clearly collusion. Clearly these guys got together, planned out how they were going to contribute $50 combined to a league, and trade Matt Forte at a somewhat discount and then Julio Jones for a steep discount, all to try and slightly increase their chances of one of them winning a 1st prize payout that is probably around 60% of like a $250 pot, which is a cool profit of $50 each....several months later...if in fact he actually wins the league (which is still statistically unlikely).

Open/shut IMO.

While it's probably not the best thought out plan, it's very possible this was their plan. The Julio trade was truly awful.

Who would draft Julio Jones in Round 2 and then trade him (with Jon Stewart) for an 8th, 9th and 15th round pick? (Guessing where Miller, Olsen and Woods were drafted but you get the idea).

The first trade I actually have no problem with, the second is at least arguable - but the third is very curious. How do two teams make four trades right after their fantasy draft?

where do you see four trades?

 

[MoveToSkypager]

Clearly collusion. Clearly these guys got together, planned out how they were going to contribute $50 combined to a league, and trade Matt Forte at a somewhat discount and then Julio Jones for a steep discount, all to try and slightly increase their chances of one of them winning a 1st prize payout that is probably around 60% of like a $250 pot, which is a cool profit of $50 each....several months later...if in fact he actually wins the league (which is still statistically unlikely).

Open/shut IMO.

At this rate, these guys are gonna bring down Wall St next year.,

 

[Dr. Octopus]

If you were going to collude with someone, would you say "hey let's make four incremently worse trades immediately after the draft!" Or would you maybe make a sketchy deal right after, then another one before Week 1, then maybe another after the first week?

Like I said, this doesn't seem to be the most well thought out plan, but a lot of "evidence" points to something fishy being up.

 

[shadyridr]

Clearly collusion. Clearly these guys got together, planned out how they were going to contribute $50 combined to a league, and trade Matt Forte at a somewhat discount and then Julio Jones for a steep discount, all to try and slightly increase their chances of one of them winning a 1st prize payout that is probably around 60% of like a $250 pot, which is a cool profit of $50 each....several months later...if in fact he actually wins the league (which is still statistically unlikely).

Open/shut IMO.

Time will tell if this is true because anyone willing to make the moves they've made so far will surely follow them up with more moves once the inevitable twists and turns of a season start to unfold.

It's actually three if you read the OP (I mistakenly said four)

- Dez for Forte

- Hawkins for Sanders

- Olsen, Miller and Woods for Julio and Stewart

Are these two colluding?, honestly I don't know - but it seems fishy based on the story that's been told.

dude its two trades

 

[Dr. Octopus]

Clearly collusion. Clearly these guys got together, planned out how they were going to contribute $50 combined to a league, and trade Matt Forte at a somewhat discount and then Julio Jones for a steep discount, all to try and slightly increase their chances of one of them winning a 1st prize payout that is probably around 60% of like a $250 pot, which is a cool profit of $50 each....several months later...if in fact he actually wins the league (which is still statistically unlikely).

Open/shut IMO.

While it's probably not the best thought out plan, it's very possible this was their plan. The Julio trade was truly awful.

Who would draft Julio Jones in Round 2 and then trade him (with Jon Stewart) for an 8th, 9th and 15th round pick? (Guessing where Miller, Olsen and Woods were drafted but you get the idea).

The first trade I actually have no problem with, the second is at least arguable - but the third is very curious. How do two teams make four trades right after their fantasy draft?

where do you see four trades?

I should have said 3 not 4 [ETA: Its actually two trades], but the point remains. Do you usually see two teams make two trades immediately following a redraft, where each time the same team took players drafted AFTER (well after in some cases) the players they were giving up.

 

[Leonidas]

Is there no league vote?

What TE did Team A have prior to trading for Olsen?

 

[Dr. Octopus]

Clearly collusion. Clearly these guys got together, planned out how they were going to contribute $50 combined to a league, and trade Matt Forte at a somewhat discount and then Julio Jones for a steep discount, all to try and slightly increase their chances of one of them winning a 1st prize payout that is probably around 60% of like a $250 pot, which is a cool profit of $50 each....several months later...if in fact he actually wins the league (which is still statistically unlikely).

Open/shut IMO.

Time will tell if this is true because anyone willing to make the moves they've made so far will surely follow them up with more moves once the inevitable twists and turns of a season start to unfold.

It's actually three if you read the OP (I mistakenly said four)

- Dez for Forte

- Hawkins for Sanders

- Olsen, Miller and Woods for Julio and Stewart

Are these two colluding?, honestly I don't know - but it seems fishy based on the story that's been told.

dude its two trades

ok, you are right. it is two trades I interpreted the OP incorrectly.

 

[shadyridr]

Is clearly collusion. Anyone saying otherwise is just being difficult.

 

[Leonidas]

Is clearly collusion. Anyone saying otherwise is just being difficult.

I thought the same thing at first. But then I considered how wildy people value different players and how stupid some moves can be, or can seem to be.

Questions I really want to know the answer to:

1. Did Team A manually/live draft?

2. What TE did Team A have prior to the trades?

So the first trade nobody really has a problem with, even though it seems Team A could have simply drafted Dez.

The second one is way out there...but maybe since they now have Dez they aren't nearly as attached to Julio and maybe his foot scares them? IDK

Some things I could see Team A thinking or acting based on:

If they auto drafted maybe they just didn't like it.

If they had a poor TE they might see Olsen as a big upgrade.

If they are scared of or got cold feet regarding Julio's foot they could have opted to back out and go with Dez.

 

[ponchsox]

This is the main reason why I only play in leagues with people that I know.

This

 

[Kool-Aid Larry]

both those teams are probably the same guy --- collusion involves 2 or more ppl

 

[shadyridr]

I once traded my 5th pick for someones 8th pick a day after the draft. I picked charles with the 5 pick and foster slipped all the way to 8 cuz that was the year of the hammy scare. I regretted it all noght and asked the guy who took foster if hed rather have charles and he said yes. That was the year foster had a monster season and charles tore his acl. i won the championship due to that trade.

The point of that whole story is, i can see someone changing their mind after a draft and trading for a player they could have just picked. So i can see forte for dez. But to also throw in sanders to sweeten the deal makes no sense. And then to also trade away julio for two bad players puts the cherry on top.

 

[Leonidas]

I once traded my 5th pick for someones 8th pick a day after the draft. I picked charles with the 5 pick and foster slipped all the way to 8 cuz that was the year of the hammy scare. I regretted it all noght and asked the guy who took foster if hed rather have charles and he said yes. That was the year foster had a monster season and charles tore his acl. i won the championship due to that trade.

The point of that whole story is, i can see someone changing their mind after a draft and trading for a player they could have just picked. So i can see forte for dez. But to also throw in sanders to sweeten the deal makes no sense. And then to also trade away julio for two bad players puts the cherry on top.

I made a eyebrow raising trade last night right after a draft (message board centered draft, we all e-know each other, small $25 entry)

I had the 2nd pick and my first two were Charles/Stacy

The guy with the 7th pick's first two were Demaryius/Nelson

We swapped those players after the draft, effectively exchanging draft positions for the first two rounds. We agreed to this before the draft. But it was a theoretically 'even' trade, 1st-2nd round players for 1st-2nd round players. As you say, adding players into their swap and not getting anybody elite, let alone premium, in exchange for Roddy...that stinks out loud.

 

[MoveToSkypager]

both those teams are probably the same guy --- collusion involves 2 or more ppl

This is a brilliant loophole!

 

[IheartGuinness]

If you were going to collude with someone, would you say "hey let's make four incremently worse trades immediately after the draft!" Or would you maybe make a sketchy deal right after, then another one before Week 1, then maybe another after the first week?

How do two teams make four trades right after their fantasy draft?

There's a lot here that fails the "sniff test" but this jumped out the most. It sounds like this might be a league where some know each other and some empty spots were filled by people with more distant connections...

Unless I can't read, there were two trades, and the first one is really not even that bad.

Yeah, I agree. I'm fine with the first one. I wouldn't do it personally, but nothing about it screams collusion to me. The second one is a little more ridiculous. But I could live with it. Maybe one of the owners just doesn't know what he's doing. Based on the draft, you already know some people in the league are out of their element. Can't you just ask them what their reasoning was?

 

[Ghost Rider]

This is the main reason why I only play in leagues with people that I know.

I agree for the most part, although I like playing in the phenoms leagues online. Mike, the guy who runs it, does a great job of making sure no shady or lopsided deals go through.

 

[cstu]

If you were going to collude with someone, would you say "hey let's make four incremently worse trades immediately after the draft!" Or would you maybe make a sketchy deal right after, then another one before Week 1, then maybe another after the first week?

No one said criminals were smart.

 

[cstu]

I once traded my 5th pick for someones 8th pick a day after the draft. I picked charles with the 5 pick and foster slipped all the way to 8 cuz that was the year of the hammy scare. I regretted it all noght and asked the guy who took foster if hed rather have charles and he said yes. That was the year foster had a monster season and charles tore his acl. i won the championship due to that trade.

The point of that whole story is, i can see someone changing their mind after a draft and trading for a player they could have just picked. So i can see forte for dez. But to also throw in sanders to sweeten the deal makes no sense. And then to also trade away julio for two bad players puts the cherry on top.

That's 3 spots, not even in the same ballpark.

 

[Skoo]

Thanks for all the responses everyone. The guy who was on the winning end of the trades was the guy that invited me and is one of the"co-commisioners".

Now, because some of these guys are definitely terrible, maybe this guy just knew he could take advantage and exploit someone's stupidity, I dunno.

But, like others have said, the 1st trade was one thing but the Julio trade is just absurd.

Here's the team I drafted, although I know I'm not gonna get any sympathy after you guys see I made out like a bandit:

12 Teams, PPR. Start 1QB 2RB 2WR 2Flex. I picked 4th and got Charles there, lol.

Matt Ryan

Jamaal Charles

Giovani Bernard

Shane Vereen

Toby Gerhart

Carlos Hyde

Jeremy Hill

Knile Davis

Alshon Jeffrey

Roddy White

TY Hilton

Justin Hunter

Kelvin Benjamin

Zach Ertz

Bailey

Pats

So yeah, I should coast to the playoffs regardless of any shadiness, but it still sucks to wake up the morning after a draft and see this malarkey.

 

[Leonidas]

So what TE did Team A have prior to the trades?

Did Team A draft live or auto?

 

[adrenaline]

There's no way to tell if it's collusion with the information provided. Try getting both of them to email you & check the ip addresses.

 

[adrenaline]

He's probably going to keep all the money anyways & laugh all the way to McDonalds.

 

[Skoo]

So what TE did Team A have prior to the trades?

Did Team A draft live or auto?

Team A had Heath Miller and Eric Ebron, drafted live.

So yeah, he was weak at TE but that still doesn't justify the trade imo. Not like he got Graham or Gronk.

 

[ceejee]

I'd quit this league if things like this are occurring even before Week 1.

 

[Jimbo Slice]

Had one like this. One keeper, very very qb heavy scoring, team kept luck, immediately after the draft trades luck for vjax. I don't like it but what can you do

 

[identikit]

I don't think the OP's team is all that.

 

[Skoo]

I'd quit this league if things like this are occurring even before Week 1.

I'd consider it if my team wasn't so damn good lol.

It's only for $25 so I'm not nearly as mad as I would be if it were in one of my bigger leagues, but still, I wasn't happy to see that when I woke up this morning.

 

[Skoo]

I don't think the OP's team is all that.

Fair enough. I think the crazy RB depth is what's gonna win it for me. This is a 2 flex PPR league, so I'll be able to start all 4 of these RBs at once:

J Charles

Gio

Vereen

Gerhart

Everyone was going WR after the first few rounds leaving all kinds of value at RB, so that's what I went with.

 

[Uruk-Hai]

I'd quit this league if things like this are occurring even before Week 1.

I'd consider it if my team wasn't so damn good lol.

It's only for $25 so I'm not nearly as mad as I would be if it were in one of my bigger leagues, but still, I wasn't happy to see that when I woke up this morning.

Dude, you're tempting every Jinx God ever.

 

[Long Ball Larry]

Thanks for posting your rooster. That was helpful.

 

[fantasycurse42]

This is what you get for playing in a $25 dollar league with randoms. You're at fault here.

 

[Insein]

Thanks for posting your rooster. That was helpful.

This is a great Freudian slip.

 

[Insein]

I'd quit this league if things like this are occurring even before Week 1.

I'd consider it if my team wasn't so damn good lol.

It's only for $25 so I'm not nearly as mad as I would be if it were in one of my bigger leagues, but still, I wasn't happy to see that when I woke up this morning.

Give us the week to week highlights of the league and how it plays out. Do you have the league ID page from yahoo?

 

[Long Ball Larry]

Thanks for posting your rooster. That was helpful.

This is a great Freudian slip.

it's not. it's a reference to an old thread. (wherein it possibly was a freudian slip.)