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Without a cool nickname, the guy is nothing. Tampa Bay gets run on all day.
I feel the same exact way...always was supposed to be the ying or yang to Sapp...he could not beat one on one blocks when Sapp was double teamed...he clogs the middle a bit but this guy is really overrated.
Couldn't agree more Capella, well said.btw, it was Hovan that improved the run D for the Bucs last year. Booger has been in and out of the doghouse here for years -- always wanted Sapp respect and money but never showed he was worth either --took a lot of plays off, and then the injuries too. He never commanded the attention Sapp in his prime did in the form of double-teams, and still never got to the quarterback. He was just sort of there.Probably right in the middle tier of DTs in the league, but for some reason people think he's better than he is. Guess I'm glad they were able to get a 2nd-rounder for him, even though I would think Indy would be desperate enough to pony up a first or at least add a player to the mix.
sorry, I was busy.
I know. I just really wanted to use the word Booger-mania.
I don't blame them for trying something, even if they did overpay for it a bit. It may work out fairly well in fact. You never really know how well a guy does in a new system until he's been there awhile.
So I shouldn't bench Portis this week?btw, it was Hovan that improved the run D for the Bucs last year. Booger has been in and out of the doghouse here for years -- always wanted Sapp respect and money but never showed he was worth either --took a lot of plays off, and then the injuries too. He never commanded the attention Sapp in his prime did in the form of double-teams, and still never got to the quarterback. He was just sort of there.
Probably right in the middle tier of DTs in the league, but for some reason people think he's better than he is. Guess I'm glad they were able to get a 2nd-rounder for him, even though I would think Indy would be desperate enough to pony up a first or at least add a player to the mix.
I just quoted your post dgreen to let you know that you knew who they were going in and you let them off the hook!I'm pretty sure that Dungy knows what he's getting in booger, so in my opinion this can only help.So I shouldn't bench Portis this week?btw, it was Hovan that improved the run D for the Bucs last year. Booger has been in and out of the doghouse here for years -- always wanted Sapp respect and money but never showed he was worth either --took a lot of plays off, and then the injuries too. He never commanded the attention Sapp in his prime did in the form of double-teams, and still never got to the quarterback. He was just sort of there.
Probably right in the middle tier of DTs in the league, but for some reason people think he's better than he is. Guess I'm glad they were able to get a 2nd-rounder for him, even though I would think Indy would be desperate enough to pony up a first or at least add a player to the mix.
I just quoted your post dgreen to let you know that you knew who they were going in and you let them off the hook!So I shouldn't bench Portis this week?btw, it was Hovan that improved the run D for the Bucs last year. Booger has been in and out of the doghouse here for years -- always wanted Sapp respect and money but never showed he was worth either --took a lot of plays off, and then the injuries too. He never commanded the attention Sapp in his prime did in the form of double-teams, and still never got to the quarterback. He was just sort of there.
Probably right in the middle tier of DTs in the league, but for some reason people think he's better than he is. Guess I'm glad they were able to get a 2nd-rounder for him, even though I would think Indy would be desperate enough to pony up a first or at least add a player to the mix.
Different dgreen.
He's been a nonfactor ever since Dungy left. Coincidence? Maybe, maybe not. All Gruden has done is ride Dungy's hard work to a SB victory and subsequent suckage. If anyone can make McFarland a factor again it's Dungy.
Is that all you have? Schoolyard taunts?
Post an actual counterargument or ####. Seriously.
Is he that wrong?
Yes.Is he that wrong?
We've been down this road at least a million times here. Seriously.Is that all you have? Schoolyard taunts?
I smell some Gruden man-love here. . .
What exactly is your argument? Do you understand how cap-strapped the Bucs were after 03? Do you realize how many premium draft picks they gave up for Gruden? Do you realize the picks Rich McKay gave up for Kenyatta Walker? Do you realize the Gruden was able to take the same exact team (plus the addition of Keenan McCardell) and do somethingDungy was absolutely incapable of doing? If you're just going to make an ignorant drive-by comment, don't act shocked to get called on the carpet for it.And then when you say "subsequent suckage", I guess you leave out the 11-5 season and division title last year, right?Guzalot said:I'm sorry, I guess I mistook you for someone with an actual thought to share. I guess I gave you too much credit.We've been down this road at least a million times here. Seriously.Is that all you have? Schoolyard taunts?
See, that's an actual argument. How hard was that? I can actualy respect that. Act like an adult and get treated like an adult, it's a novel concept. Even I can see that, and all I have is this lousy GED.What exactly is your argument? Do you understand how cap-strapped the Bucs were after 03? Do you realize how many premium draft picks they gave up for Gruden? Do you realize the picks Rich McKay gave up for Kenyatta Walker? Do you realize the Gruden was able to take the same exact team (plus the addition of Keenan McCardell) and do somethingDungy was absolutely incapable of doing? If you're just going to make an ignorant drive-by comment, don't act shocked to get called on the carpet for it.And then when you say "subsequent suckage", I guess you leave out the 11-5 season and division title last year, right?Guzalot said:I'm sorry, I guess I mistook you for someone with an actual thought to share. I guess I gave you too much credit.We've been down this road at least a million times here. Seriously.Is that all you have? Schoolyard taunts?
Seriously, the Bucs went multiple years without any premium draft picks and little to no cap room (and the cap room they had, they were forced to spend on oline help due to the disaster that was left there by the previous regime) -- I could go on all day about this if you like, but I assume you won't have much of a rebuttal, except "GRUDEN SUCKS OMG".
It's easy to paint with broad brushstrokes. Let me know when you actually have some insight to add.
Waiting for your counter.See, that's an actual argument. How hard was that? I can actualy respect that. Act like an adult and get treated like an adult, it's a novel concept. Even I can see that, and all I have is this lousy GED.What exactly is your argument? Do you understand how cap-strapped the Bucs were after 03? Do you realize how many premium draft picks they gave up for Gruden? Do you realize the picks Rich McKay gave up for Kenyatta Walker? Do you realize the Gruden was able to take the same exact team (plus the addition of Keenan McCardell) and do somethingDungy was absolutely incapable of doing? If you're just going to make an ignorant drive-by comment, don't act shocked to get called on the carpet for it.And then when you say "subsequent suckage", I guess you leave out the 11-5 season and division title last year, right?Guzalot said:I'm sorry, I guess I mistook you for someone with an actual thought to share. I guess I gave you too much credit.We've been down this road at least a million times here. Seriously.Is that all you have? Schoolyard taunts?
Seriously, the Bucs went multiple years without any premium draft picks and little to no cap room (and the cap room they had, they were forced to spend on oline help due to the disaster that was left there by the previous regime) -- I could go on all day about this if you like, but I assume you won't have much of a rebuttal, except "GRUDEN SUCKS OMG".
It's easy to paint with broad brushstrokes. Let me know when you actually have some insight to add.
Enjoy the popcorn.Waiting for your counter.See, that's an actual argument. How hard was that? I can actualy respect that. Act like an adult and get treated like an adult, it's a novel concept. Even I can see that, and all I have is this lousy GED.What exactly is your argument? Do you understand how cap-strapped the Bucs were after 03? Do you realize how many premium draft picks they gave up for Gruden? Do you realize the picks Rich McKay gave up for Kenyatta Walker? Do you realize the Gruden was able to take the same exact team (plus the addition of Keenan McCardell) and do somethingDungy was absolutely incapable of doing? If you're just going to make an ignorant drive-by comment, don't act shocked to get called on the carpet for it.And then when you say "subsequent suckage", I guess you leave out the 11-5 season and division title last year, right?Guzalot said:I'm sorry, I guess I mistook you for someone with an actual thought to share. I guess I gave you too much credit.We've been down this road at least a million times here. Seriously.Is that all you have? Schoolyard taunts?
Seriously, the Bucs went multiple years without any premium draft picks and little to no cap room (and the cap room they had, they were forced to spend on oline help due to the disaster that was left there by the previous regime) -- I could go on all day about this if you like, but I assume you won't have much of a rebuttal, except "GRUDEN SUCKS OMG".
It's easy to paint with broad brushstrokes. Let me know when you actually have some insight to add.
Wyms, White, Julius Jenkins will get some snaps.
And your position has always placed all the blame on Dungy while at the same time giving Gruden every excuse for the exact same reasons. How many draft picks were sacrificed for MeShawn Johnson again? And it was Dungys fault that MeShawn was not the player to get the Bucs to the big game?To you the only thing that matters is the Super Bowl. The Super Bowl was won by the great defense that Dungy built not by Grudens offensive "genius". I am not saying Gruden is a bad coach but the credit you give him is misplaced in my honest opinion which is only exasperated further by your disrespect and discrediting everything that Dungy did for the Bucs.Seriously.Now back on topic it will not suprise me at all if Dungy is able to get Booger to play well enough for the Colts defense to improve.We've been down this road at least a million times here. Seriously.Is that all you have? Schoolyard taunts?
Uhmm just to keep the record straight.....Dungy's defense + Gruden being the one that created Oakland's offense = Superbowl win.Gruden inherited the talent, but knowing his old teams weaknesses helped too!Anyone not willing to give them both credit doesn't know what he's talking about.And your position has always placed all the blame on Dungy while at the same time giving Gruden every excuse for the exact same reasons. How many draft picks were sacrificed for MeShawn Johnson again? And it was Dungys fault that MeShawn was not the player to get the Bucs to the big game?To you the only thing that matters is the Super Bowl. The Super Bowl was won by the great defense that Dungy built not by Grudens offensive "genius". I am not saying Gruden is a bad coach but the credit you give him is misplaced in my honest opinion which is only exasperated further by your disrespect and discrediting everything that Dungy did for the Bucs.Seriously.Now back on topic it will not suprise me at all if Dungy is able to get Booger to play well enough for the Colts defense to improve.We've been down this road at least a million times here. Seriously.Is that all you have? Schoolyard taunts?
Kind of hard to defend Dungy isn't it? His last two playoff games ended up in complete routs at the hands of Philly. Gruden steps in the next year, takes the team to its best record ever and goes on the road to the very same place Dungy couldn't win at and takes a convincing victory. And no, the Super Bowl was not just won by the defense Dungy built (love how Kiffin never gets any credit on this board) -- go look at the playoff game logs that year, and watch the Philly tape again, and watch how Gruden completely abuses Jom Johnson in that game by creating mismatches all over the field (hint: the Jurevicius run when matched up in single coverage with the linebacker). Those are all things Gruden added that Dungy's staff was completely incapable of doing.I don't disrespect or discredit Dungy at all. I also don't worship at his altar like a lot of people do. He, along with Monte and Rich McKay (and Lovie Smith and Marinelli) helped change this franchise and make them one of the better teams in the NFL in the past decade. BUT, Dungy was also at the helm for one of the best defenses in recent NFL history, and was only able to squeeze a few playoffs wins out of them, and no trip to the Super Bowl, due to his ultraconservative nature and inability to put together an offense he could rely on, despite numerous coordinator changes, pro bowl talent such as Keyshawn, Alstott and Warrick Dunn being brought in, and a dizzying amount of high-round NFL draft talent being selected (and failing). Seriously, don't even get me wound up here. I could write a book on how Tony Dungy took a potential multiple Super Bowl winner and ended up doing nothing more with it than reaching one NFCCG, and getting absolutely annilhated at the hands of the Eagles in the playoffs in back to back years.
This is why I don't give anybody credit here. Oh well.Enjoy the popcorn.Waiting for your counter.See, that's an actual argument. How hard was that? I can actualy respect that. Act like an adult and get treated like an adult, it's a novel concept. Even I can see that, and all I have is this lousy GED.What exactly is your argument? Do you understand how cap-strapped the Bucs were after 03? Do you realize how many premium draft picks they gave up for Gruden? Do you realize the picks Rich McKay gave up for Kenyatta Walker? Do you realize the Gruden was able to take the same exact team (plus the addition of Keenan McCardell) and do somethingDungy was absolutely incapable of doing? If you're just going to make an ignorant drive-by comment, don't act shocked to get called on the carpet for it.And then when you say "subsequent suckage", I guess you leave out the 11-5 season and division title last year, right?Guzalot said:I'm sorry, I guess I mistook you for someone with an actual thought to share. I guess I gave you too much credit.We've been down this road at least a million times here. Seriously.Is that all you have? Schoolyard taunts?
Seriously, the Bucs went multiple years without any premium draft picks and little to no cap room (and the cap room they had, they were forced to spend on oline help due to the disaster that was left there by the previous regime) -- I could go on all day about this if you like, but I assume you won't have much of a rebuttal, except "GRUDEN SUCKS OMG".
It's easy to paint with broad brushstrokes. Let me know when you actually have some insight to add.
I agree to a point Capellla, but Gruden has been doing the same thing. The team has been going downhill since that Superbowl win.Tampa just went from a good defensive coach to a good offensive coach.At least Dungy has been able to keep that offense he inherited together, despite all the cap problems that having that many stars creates.Granted Dungy hasn't done alot better in creating a defense than Gruden has built an offense, but he's doing a better job of keeping what he inherited.
I guess I don't see what Gruden was able to do. He had to let Keyshawn go. I guess McCardell wanted more than they thought he was worth. Brad Johnson was absolutely done at the end of 04 -- I still have no idea how he has been able to rebound for the Vikings. He looked miserable that year, don't know if he was arm-dead or what but he couldn't even throw an out pass. Griese came in and played well, but the Bears offered him a nice contract this year. He then had to develop Simms and now Gradkowski, and has only had Caddy for a year. He has turned Galloway into a semi-stud, after his disaster at Dallas. They've also spent multiple premium picks on olineman the past 3 years to try and build up that line. Once again, all this with very little cap room and quite a large hit on those premium draft picks.
And people keep saying they went downhill, as if the 11-5 season last year didn't happen. 
Philly went 6-10 last year.
It blows me away the short-term memory the people here have. Denver won 6 games the year after it's second Super Bowl (but has been consistently good lately). Pitt went 6-10 as recenty as '03. NE is an obvious exception, but nobody is comparing Gruden to BB. Since he won the SB, he has had one pretty outstanding season (05), one really, really bad season (04), and one pretty mediocre season (03). I don't think that's enough to hang the guy.
I'm not forgetting anything. With the TO nonsense and McNabb having the sport hernia Philly had one down season. Denver's last bad season was how long ago? Pitt has pretty steady inspite of '03. The Bucs have been 7-9, 5-11, 11-6 and 1-4 since the Super Bowl. I don't see how you can compare the Bucs to those other teams. And back to this thread, the colts have lost players, been cap strapped and unable to sign many free agents also and have continued to play well. Maybe New England is the acception to some degree but even removing them doesn't make the Bucs look any better.Philly went 5-11 last year.
C'mon people...dig a little deeper.Monte Kiffen and Rod Marinell were still around post-Dungy, the Bucs D was perenial top-5...and Booger still stunk.
If they were still top 5, and he was the starting DT, what made him "stink"? Are you basing this off of lower stats?I mean, I would be happy if the Colts D improved and Booger didn't register a tackle. There is more to playing Nose than tackles IMHO. If it allows your LBs to go unblocked and they make the tackles, that is fine by me.Help me understand why Booger "stinks", please? Serious question.
