Commish vetos trade (1 Viewer)

[NeverEnough]

Calvin Johnson, Murray & DeAngleo Williams for Reggie Bush, Nicks & Starks.

Been working on this for a while going back & forth with CJ owner to get the deal right. At first, he wanted to do Bush for CJ straight up. Not a bad offer of course, but I didn't want that hole in my RB slot so I wanted to make it a package deal. We finally agree on the deal above & commish vetoed it today!

It's not collusion and no reason it would look that way so this is bs IMO.

There should be no vetos unless obvious collusion.

 

[RUSF18]

JFC. Play in a better league.

/thread

 

[Khy]

JFC. Play in a better league.

/thread

 

[fantasycurse42]

That trade is terrible, why would he do that? but if no collusion then so be it.

 

[NeverEnough]

Commish's reply is below. It appears that he thinks he should determine what is a bad deal for everyone else rather than worry about running his own team.

You said that owners should run their teams as they see fit and right behind it said unless there is obvious collusion.........Who determines the collusion?



Every trade comes to the league commissioner for review. Honestly in the 5 years of this league, I have never vetoed any trade. I will give you the same reason I told Joe..........James Starks.



We both know that he is not only injured with no estimated return in sight, but a backup running back that likely will not play again this season unless Eddie Lacy gets injured.



He makes the trade Joe giving up three 1 starters for one 1 starter and a 2 starter. From those numbers, it can be easily seen as collusion. That being said, since I know Joe personally and know he is not looking to sabbotage his own team, since he turned down a trade with me last week AND since no other owner has questioned this trade, submit it again and I will pass it today.........bad deal or not.

 

[fantasycurse42]

Why would Joe do that? I suspect collusion from this trade too. If I was commish, first question I'm asking is how does this help your team?

Why are you even rostering James Starks

 

[mquinnjr]

If trade veto'ing by owners is allowed in the first place, it's a bad league and you should separate from it.

If it's commissioner veto only, and he's getting ready to hit the veto button, same as the first sentence above.

Let teams manage themselves. No other magic/real sport allows for owner veto. People will block just to help their own cause/ be bitter they missed out.

I loathe Matthew Berry for fantasy advice, but I credit him for standing true, in many instances, on this very topic. For example,

http://espn.go.com/fantasy/football/story/_/page/TMR131010/matthew-berry-players-loves-hates-week-6-fantasy-football-rankings

5. Veto the veto. You've heard me say this before, but until this miscarriage of justice is abolished, you're going to keep hearing it. Unless you can prove actual collusion, no trade should ever be vetoed. It is not your job to manage someone's team for them. Everyone should be allowed to manage their own team their own way. Even if you don't agree with it. Even if it's badly. You don't think he got nearly enough for his star tight end? So what? Not your team, not your tight end. The guy dealing him thought he got a good deal, that's all that matters. There's a special level of hell reserved for the people who veto just because it's a deal that didn't involve them or because "it's part of their strategy." That's not strategy, it's being a jerk. Win on the virtual field, not in some technocratic loophole. The art of negotiation is a skill in fantasy and is part of the game. A big part.

 

[NeverEnough]

Why would Joe do that? I suspect collusion from this trade too. If I was commish, first question I'm asking is how does this help your team?

Why are you even rostering James Starks

CJ would help anyone's team. I need WR help. I have Richardson, Bell, etc on the bench at RB.

 

[NeverEnough]

If trade veto'ing by owners is allowed in the first place, it's a bad league and you should separate from it.

If it's commissioner veto only, and he's getting ready to hit the veto button, same as the first sentence above.

Let teams manage themselves. No other magic/real sport allows for owner veto. People will block just to help their own cause/ be bitter they missed out.

I loathe Matthew Berry for fantasy advice, but I credit him for standing true, in many instances, on this very topic. For example,

http://espn.go.com/fantasy/football/story/_/page/TMR131010/matthew-berry-players-loves-hates-week-6-fantasy-football-rankings

5. Veto the veto. You've heard me say this before, but until this miscarriage of justice is abolished, you're going to keep hearing it. Unless you can prove actual collusion, no trade should ever be vetoed. It is not your job to manage someone's team for them. Everyone should be allowed to manage their own team their own way. Even if you don't agree with it. Even if it's badly. You don't think he got nearly enough for his star tight end? So what? Not your team, not your tight end. The guy dealing him thought he got a good deal, that's all that matters. There's a special level of hell reserved for the people who veto just because it's a deal that didn't involve them or because "it's part of their strategy." That's not strategy, it's being a jerk. Win on the virtual field, not in some technocratic loophole. The art of negotiation is a skill in fantasy and is part of the game. A big part.

I am leaving the league if this trade does no go through. Thanks for that Bery link. I agree 100% & have forwarded that to everyone in the league.

 

[mquinnjr]

If trade veto'ing by owners is allowed in the first place, it's a bad league and you should separate from it.

If it's commissioner veto only, and he's getting ready to hit the veto button, same as the first sentence above.

Let teams manage themselves. No other magic/real sport allows for owner veto. People will block just to help their own cause/ be bitter they missed out.

I loathe Matthew Berry for fantasy advice, but I credit him for standing true, in many instances, on this very topic. For example,

http://espn.go.com/fantasy/football/story/_/page/TMR131010/matthew-berry-players-loves-hates-week-6-fantasy-football-rankings

5. Veto the veto. You've heard me say this before, but until this miscarriage of justice is abolished, you're going to keep hearing it. Unless you can prove actual collusion, no trade should ever be vetoed. It is not your job to manage someone's team for them. Everyone should be allowed to manage their own team their own way. Even if you don't agree with it. Even if it's badly. You don't think he got nearly enough for his star tight end? So what? Not your team, not your tight end. The guy dealing him thought he got a good deal, that's all that matters. There's a special level of hell reserved for the people who veto just because it's a deal that didn't involve them or because "it's part of their strategy." That's not strategy, it's being a jerk. Win on the virtual field, not in some technocratic loophole. The art of negotiation is a skill in fantasy and is part of the game. A big part.

I am leaving the league if this trade does no go through. Thanks for that Bery link. I agree 100% & have forwarded that to everyone in the league.

I left a league with very good friends over a trade that got veto'ed like this, and to this day have not gone back, nor will ever contemplate going back.

For me, veto-ing a clearly non-collusive (collusive meaning cheating) trade shows me the character of the people I'm playing against, and that's all I need to know.

 

[Mistabishi]

That's ridiculous to veto that trade.

 

[Limp Ditka]

Long time fan of your league. Knew this was going to happen as soon as I saw the trade hit the transaction report.

 

[Craig_MiamiFL]

JMO The person/people ruling on a trade should not actually be in the league.

It's easy to exchange 'Trade Ref' services with a commish of another league.

 

[Khy]

Long time fan of your league. Knew this was going to happen as soon as I saw the trade hit the transaction report.

 

[Sarnoff]

Any trade is, by definition, collusion. Commish was correct to veto.

 

[Isotopes]

I gotta tell you, I would have a hard time approving the trade. It is so extremely lopsided that it makes you wonder why the other team would agree to it.

 

[VA703]

that isn't too bad of a trade to warrant a veto. let all trades go through unless theres collusion. and the only way to determine the collusion is for the comish to speak to both owners and see what they intend to gain and how they plan on using the newly acquired players.

 

[ImTheScientist]

Shark Pool Rule #2

2. Understand most people in the Shark Pool don't care about your team

 

[Amused to Death]

I gotta tell you, I would have a hard time approving the trade. It is so extremely lopsided that it makes you wonder why the other team would agree to it.

Which is exactly why commishes can't have the authority to approve trades. IMO, if a commish vetoes a trade because its collusion, both owners should be kicked out of the league. If the commish isn't ready to kick the owners out, don't veto the trade.

 

[Craig_MiamiFL]

I gotta tell you, I would have a hard time approving the trade. It is so extremely lopsided that it makes you wonder why the other team would agree to it.

Which is exactly why commishes can't have the authority to approve trades. IMO, if a commish vetoes a trade because its collusion, both owners should be kicked out of the league. If the commish isn't ready to kick the owners out, don't veto the trade.

The Commish has the duty to protect the integrity of the league!!! This bull#### line always gets me...

Have a 3rd party not involved in the league rule on trades.

The End.

 

[Amused to Death]

I gotta tell you, I would have a hard time approving the trade. It is so extremely lopsided that it makes you wonder why the other team would agree to it.

Which is exactly why commishes can't have the authority to approve trades. IMO, if a commish vetoes a trade because its collusion, both owners should be kicked out of the league. If the commish isn't ready to kick the owners out, don't veto the trade.

The Commish has the duty to protect the integrity of the league!!! This bull#### line always gets me...

Have a 3rd party not involved in the league rule on trades.

/end

Then I want a refund on my league fee.

 

[The Hank]

I am a commissioner in our league, and we had a deal that just went through that angered most of our members. Our league requires commissioner approval:

TEAM A acquired
Cousins, Kirk QB WAS
Tolbert, Mike RB CAR
Johnson, Chris RB TEN
Wayne, Reggie WR IND
Griffin III, Robert QB WAS
Garcon, Pierre WR WAS

TEAM B acquired
Campbell, Jason QB CLE
Weeden, Brandon QB CLE
Bennett, Martellus TE CHI
Blackmon, Justin WR JAC
Moreno, Knowshon RB DEN
Brown, Marlon WR BAL

There was outrage because we can play 2 QB's (flex can be any position), and team B's only QB was RG3 (team A had weeden and Rivers); I approved the trade because I am not (nor do I want to be) in the business of evaluating trades to see if it helps/hurts my opinion of their team. Additionally if it was put to a league vote (or if any trade really), I think most league members would be biased in how they react in how it affects their team, division, conference, etc..

I think a trade should only be vetoed if there is obvious inklings that it is a trade that involves $ or just an owner giving up and tanking the season (which doesnt make sense in our 16 team league, as the worst team in our league only gets #1 pick if they win the consolation bracket, consolation bracket loser gets 8th pick OVR in next year's draft)

 

[Craig_MiamiFL]

I gotta tell you, I would have a hard time approving the trade. It is so extremely lopsided that it makes you wonder why the other team would agree to it.

Which is exactly why commishes can't have the authority to approve trades. IMO, if a commish vetoes a trade because its collusion, both owners should be kicked out of the league. If the commish isn't ready to kick the owners out, don't veto the trade.

The Commish has the duty to protect the integrity of the league!!! This bull#### line always gets me...

Have a 3rd party not involved in the league rule on trades.

/end

Then I want a refund on my league fee.

Good luck!!

Take me to court.

 

[Not Sleeping]

FWIW, the current CBS trade value chart doesn't make this look so bad:

CJ: 30

Murray: 14

Williams: 11

-----

Bush: 31

Nicks: 15

Starks: 0

That's 55 to 46, which is certainly in the "reasonable" range. I'm not saying you have to agree with the CBS values...I'm just pointing out that it's an objective 3rd party tool that would point towards clearly allowing this trade to go through.

 

[Amused to Death]

I gotta tell you, I would have a hard time approving the trade. It is so extremely lopsided that it makes you wonder why the other team would agree to it.

Which is exactly why commishes can't have the authority to approve trades. IMO, if a commish vetoes a trade because its collusion, both owners should be kicked out of the league. If the commish isn't ready to kick the owners out, don't veto the trade.

The Commish has the duty to protect the integrity of the league!!! This bull#### line always gets me...

Have a 3rd party not involved in the league rule on trades.

/end

Then I want a refund on my league fee.

Good luck!!

Take me to court.

I don't want some commish casting his values on my team. I pay, I run it. Period. Unless I cheat, then throw me out. Goes for all owners. Or should.

 

[Ignoratio Elenchi]

Per Footballguys Top 200 values chart:

Calvin Johnson 38.8

Demarco Murray 7.3

Deangelo Williams 17.5

Total 63.6

Reggie Bush 48.0

Hakeem Nicks 9.3

James Starks 1.0

Total 58.3

 

[cstu]

Per Footballguys Top 200 values chart:

Calvin Johnson 38.8

Demarco Murray 7.3

Deangelo Williams 17.5

Total 63.6

Reggie Bush 48.0

Hakeem Nicks 9.3

James Starks 1.0

Total 58.3

Am I missing something?

 

[Ignoratio Elenchi]

Per Footballguys Top 200 values chart:

Calvin Johnson 38.8

Demarco Murray 7.3

Deangelo Williams 17.5

Total 63.6

Reggie Bush 48.0

Hakeem Nicks 9.3

James Starks 1.0

Total 58.3

Am I missing something?

Are you?

 

[BroadwayG]

I'd veto any trade involving calvin johnson too

 

[Isotopes]

Per Footballguys Top 200 values chart:

Calvin Johnson 38.8

Demarco Murray 7.3

Deangelo Williams 17.5

Total 63.6

Reggie Bush 48.0

Hakeem Nicks 9.3

James Starks 1.0

Total 58.3

Am I missing something?

I thought the same thing. According to this, DWill is more valuable than Nicks and Murray combined. Crazy. I also can't understand why Reggie would be ranked higher than CJ.

 

[cstu]

Per Footballguys Top 200 values chart:

Calvin Johnson 38.8

Demarco Murray 7.3

Deangelo Williams 17.5

Total 63.6

Reggie Bush 48.0

Hakeem Nicks 9.3

James Starks 1.0

Total 58.3

Am I missing something?

Are you?

Perhaps, because to me DWill is only bye week filler.

 

[NeverEnough]

Now the otehr owner involved is trying to change the deal & sending me other offers. This league is a joke.

 

[NeverEnough]

The other owner & I revised it to be Bush & Nicks for CJ & Murray. Now let us see if commish vetos again.

 

[Limp Ditka]

The other owner & I revised it to be Bush & Nicks for CJ & Murray. Now let us see if commish vetos again.

:bartscott:

 

[MoveToSkypager]

You should bang his wife/girlfriend for revenge.

 

[fantasycurse42]

I'd veto any trade involving calvin johnson too

I agree with this... Who trades Calvin?Especially when he packages in another top 10 back who has a minor knee sprain and will be returning shortly - then the cloak of James Starks to make it look less ridiculous, which completely backfires.

CJ by far > Reggie

Murray miles ahead > Nicks

D Williams (sucks) but at least sees the field compared to > Starks

Why would he even want Starks?

If I was a participant in this league, I would want these questions answered bc this trade is extremely lopsided... Like does he have Dez Bryant as his 2 WR and Blackmon as his 3? Even so it's still a bad deal.

I wanted Mega and offered Reggie/Ty Hilton/Mike Wallace and was shot down.

 

[Amused to Death]

I'd veto any trade involving calvin johnson too

I agree with this... Who trades Calvin?Especially when he packages in another top 10 back who has a minor knee sprain and will be returning shortly - then the cloak of James Starks to make it look less ridiculous, which completely backfires.

CJ by far > Reggie

Murray miles ahead > Nicks

D Williams (sucks) but at least sees the field compared to > Starks

Why would he even want Starks?

If I was a participant in this league, I would want these questions answered bc this trade is extremely lopsided... Like does he have Dez Bryant as his 2 WR and Blackmon as his 3? Even so it's still a bad deal.

I wanted Mega and offered Reggie/Ty Hilton/Mike Wallace and was shot down.

You say CJ>RB by far, when its apparent others don't agree. Others value players differently. See the above trade value charts. Just because YOU wouldn't make the deal doesn't mean you get to keep others from making the deal. We value players largely based on past performance - no one has a crystal ball. You know when things get complicated? When commishes try to run everyone's team. Let others run their own teams and ####.

 

[fantasycurse42]

I'd veto any trade involving calvin johnson too

I agree with this... Who trades Calvin?Especially when he packages in another top 10 back who has a minor knee sprain and will be returning shortly - then the cloak of James Starks to make it look less ridiculous, which completely backfires.

CJ by far > Reggie

Murray miles ahead > Nicks

D Williams (sucks) but at least sees the field compared to > Starks

Why would he even want Starks?

If I was a participant in this league, I would want these questions answered bc this trade is extremely lopsided... Like does he have Dez Bryant as his 2 WR and Blackmon as his 3? Even so it's still a bad deal.

I wanted Mega and offered Reggie/Ty Hilton/Mike Wallace and was shot down.

You say CJ>RB by far, when its apparent others don't agree. Others value players differently. See the above trade value charts. Just because YOU wouldn't make the deal doesn't mean you get to keep others from making the deal. We value players largely based on past performance - no one has a crystal ball. You know when things get complicated? When commishes try to run everyone's team. Let others run their own teams and ####.

Murray isn't better then Nicks? D Williams looks like a throw-in, no?I'd be highly suspicious and I say majority would be too. I don't value past performance as much as future performance (see the "Dropping Brady" thread)

 

[Adam Harstad]

Per Footballguys Top 200 values chart:

Calvin Johnson 38.8

Demarco Murray 7.3

Deangelo Williams 17.5

Total 63.6

Reggie Bush 48.0

Hakeem Nicks 9.3

James Starks 1.0

Total 58.3

Am I missing something?

I thought the same thing. According to this, DWill is more valuable than Nicks and Murray combined. Crazy. I also can't understand why Reggie would be ranked higher than CJ.

Major shortage of quality RBs. FBGs' top-200 forward values are based on projecting every player for the rest of the season and then calculating the VBD, so if the RBs seem high compared to the WRs, what that really means is that the baseline at RB this year is really, really, really low, which makes all RBs with a pulse much more valuable.

Personally, I agree that Dodds' projections seem to be producing rankings that are far too RB-centric (although I think Bush is a beast in PPR leagues and I'd prefer him to Calvin straight up, no way would I give that much for DeAngelo). Still, outside of the projections themselves, the entire rankings process is objective and the result of a simple algorithm. If the projections are accurate, the rankings should be pretty accurate, too.

 

[Coeur de Lion]

In quite a few league setups, Bush has been significantly more valuable than Calvin this year. Lot fewer RBs to go around. And Murray's history would seem to indicate that even a "minor" knee injury is a major problem. Deal is completely fair IMO.

 

[Amused to Death]

I'd veto any trade involving calvin johnson too

I agree with this... Who trades Calvin?Especially when he packages in another top 10 back who has a minor knee sprain and will be returning shortly - then the cloak of James Starks to make it look less ridiculous, which completely backfires.

CJ by far > Reggie

Murray miles ahead > Nicks

D Williams (sucks) but at least sees the field compared to > Starks

Why would he even want Starks?

If I was a participant in this league, I would want these questions answered bc this trade is extremely lopsided... Like does he have Dez Bryant as his 2 WR and Blackmon as his 3? Even so it's still a bad deal.

I wanted Mega and offered Reggie/Ty Hilton/Mike Wallace and was shot down.

You say CJ>RB by far, when its apparent others don't agree. Others value players differently. See the above trade value charts. Just because YOU wouldn't make the deal doesn't mean you get to keep others from making the deal. We value players largely based on past performance - no one has a crystal ball. You know when things get complicated? When commishes try to run everyone's team. Let others run their own teams and ####.

Murray isn't better then Nicks? D Williams looks like a throw-in, no?I'd be highly suspicious and I say majority would be too. I don't value past performance as much as future performance (see the "Dropping Brady" thread)

My opinion doesn't matter if I'm not involved in the trade. And neither should the commishes or any other owner who want to whine about it. Either kick them out for collusion, or let it pass.

 

[NeverEnough]

Per Footballguys Top 200 values chart:

Calvin Johnson 38.8

Demarco Murray 7.3

Deangelo Williams 17.5

Total 63.6

Reggie Bush 48.0

Hakeem Nicks 9.3

James Starks 1.0

Total 58.3

Am I missing something?

I thought the same thing. According to this, DWill is more valuable than Nicks and Murray combined. Crazy. I also can't understand why Reggie would be ranked higher than CJ.

Major shortage of quality RBs. FBGs' top-200 forward values are based on projecting every player for the rest of the season and then calculating the VBD, so if the RBs seem high compared to the WRs, what that really means is that the baseline at RB this year is really, really, really low, which makes all RBs with a pulse much more valuable.

Personally, I agree that Dodds' projections seem to be producing rankings that are far too RB-centric (although I think Bush is a beast in PPR leagues and I'd prefer him to Calvin straight up, no way would I give that much for DeAngelo). Still, outside of the projections themselves, the entire rankings process is objective and the result of a simple algorithm. If the projections are accurate, the rankings should be pretty accurate, too.

Not a PPR league

 

[NeverEnough]

I'd veto any trade involving calvin johnson too

I agree with this... Who trades Calvin?Especially when he packages in another top 10 back who has a minor knee sprain and will be returning shortly - then the cloak of James Starks to make it look less ridiculous, which completely backfires.

CJ by far > Reggie

Murray miles ahead > Nicks

D Williams (sucks) but at least sees the field compared to > Starks

Why would he even want Starks?

If I was a participant in this league, I would want these questions answered bc this trade is extremely lopsided... Like does he have Dez Bryant as his 2 WR and Blackmon as his 3? Even so it's still a bad deal.

I wanted Mega and offered Reggie/Ty Hilton/Mike Wallace and was shot down.

You say CJ>RB by far, when its apparent others don't agree. Others value players differently. See the above trade value charts. Just because YOU wouldn't make the deal doesn't mean you get to keep others from making the deal. We value players largely based on past performance - no one has a crystal ball. You know when things get complicated? When commishes try to run everyone's team. Let others run their own teams and ####.

 

[NeverEnough]

I'd veto any trade involving calvin johnson too

I agree with this... Who trades Calvin?Especially when he packages in another top 10 back who has a minor knee sprain and will be returning shortly - then the cloak of James Starks to make it look less ridiculous, which completely backfires.

CJ by far > Reggie

Murray miles ahead > Nicks

D Williams (sucks) but at least sees the field compared to > Starks

Why would he even want Starks?

If I was a participant in this league, I would want these questions answered bc this trade is extremely lopsided... Like does he have Dez Bryant as his 2 WR and Blackmon as his 3? Even so it's still a bad deal.

I wanted Mega and offered Reggie/Ty Hilton/Mike Wallace and was shot down.

Who are you to tell others how to run THEIR team? Is fantasy football now run by Nazis?

 

[Amused to Death]

Who are you to tell others how to run THEIR team? Is fantasy football now run by Nazis?

Its like I posted above - if I pay my league fees, spend a week working out a trade only to have some overzealous commish shoot it down, someone owes me my money back.

This topic irks me because I did have a commish try to veto one of my trades years ago. An owner approached me with interest in one of my RBs and asked me to pick what I'd want from his team. I choose 1 WR that I felt was emerging. After the deal went through the website, the commish comes to me and said he was thinking of vetoing the deal because it was too one-sided. I asked which side was was getting hosed and he said he felt I was getting too little for my RB. I showed him FBGs 200 forward and showed him how one-sided it was, in my favor. I felt guilty getting a new stud WR for an RB about to get benched. If he had vetoed it there would have been trouble.

 

[Johnny Blood]

I'd veto any trade involving calvin johnson too

I agree with this... Who trades Calvin?Especially when he packages in another top 10 back who has a minor knee sprain and will be returning shortly - then the cloak of James Starks to make it look less ridiculous, which completely backfires.

CJ by far > Reggie

Murray miles ahead > Nicks

D Williams (sucks) but at least sees the field compared to > Starks

Why would he even want Starks?

If I was a participant in this league, I would want these questions answered bc this trade is extremely lopsided... Like does he have Dez Bryant as his 2 WR and Blackmon as his 3? Even so it's still a bad deal.

I wanted Mega and offered Reggie/Ty Hilton/Mike Wallace and was shot down.

Who are you to tell others how to run THEIR team? Is fantasy football now run by Nazis?

All the people who complain about trades in my leagues also "want questions answered." That's what I always find the funniest/most pathetic in these situations. Amused to Death's story is a perfect example. Why the hell should he divulge his strategy and sources?

Imagine an NFL team doing this...

"Hi Ted, how's it going." --- Rick Spielman

"Fine, Rick." ---Ted Thompson

"Look, about that trade you just pulled. I have some questions that needs answers. Now." - Rick Spielman

<click>

 

[shadyridr]

Werent you the same person #####ing about another trade in your league a few weeks ago? Good for you, you deserve it

 

[shadyridr]

I'd veto any trade involving calvin johnson too

I agree with this... Who trades Calvin?Especially when he packages in another top 10 back who has a minor knee sprain and will be returning shortly - then the cloak of James Starks to make it look less ridiculous, which completely backfires.

CJ by far > Reggie

Murray miles ahead > Nicks

D Williams (sucks) but at least sees the field compared to > Starks

Why would he even want Starks?

If I was a participant in this league, I would want these questions answered bc this trade is extremely lopsided... Like does he have Dez Bryant as his 2 WR and Blackmon as his 3? Even so it's still a bad deal.

I wanted Mega and offered Reggie/Ty Hilton/Mike Wallace and was shot down.

Who are you to tell others how to run THEIR team? Is fantasy football now run by Nazis?

http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=693957#entry16036656

 

[The Duff Man]

I still dont know how the commish let Boldin go to the 49ers for a 6th round pick.

The most blatant collusion EVER!

Frankly it almost tore the league apart because it was brothers involved in the deal.

Big money league too.

 

[Mr.Pack]

JFC. Play in a better league.

/thread

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