commishing dillemma (1 Viewer)

[burd]

here's the situation:

An owner picked up the titans defense on saturday night and dropped his other defense. On sunday, his titans d was on the bench and he didn't have another defense. if the titans were in the starting lineup, this owner would have won. this guy just sent me an email saying that when he picked up the titans d and dropped other defense, the FF site automatically made the Titans his starting defense because he didn't have another defense. (im pretty sure that any addition: pickup, trade, etc goes to the bench until you activate the player). second, he didn't find out about the titans being on the bench until after the game started and says he sent me an email on Sunday at 4pm ... I didn't receive an email from him as he claims.

but here's the dillemma ... his opponent believes that he meant to start the titans defense (and i do too) and it seems like the opponent is ok w/ me crediting the losing team w/ the points that would've been earned from the titans d, eventhough it'll mean that he loses. i mean, i guess if the opponent is ok with it, i should allow the points, but i think it sends a bad precident and i worry about one team claiming this same type of thing latter in the year when teams are fighting for playoff spots and another team ok's it to help the other team make the playoffs.

Should i allow the points?

 

[compone]

here's the situation: An owner picked up the titans defense on saturday night and dropped his other defense. On sunday, his titans d was on the bench and he didn't have another defense. if the titans were in the starting lineup, this owner would have won. this guy just sent me an email saying that when he picked up the titans d and dropped other defense, the FF site automatically made the Titans his starting defense because he didn't have another defense. (im pretty sure that any addition: pickup, trade, etc goes to the bench until you activate the player). second, he didn't find out about the titans being on the bench until after the game started and says he sent me an email on Sunday at 4pm ... I didn't receive an email from him as he claims. but here's the dillemma ... his opponent believes that he meant to start the titans defense (and i do too) and it seems like the opponent is ok w/ me crediting the losing team w/ the points that would've been earned from the titans d, eventhough it'll mean that he loses. i mean, i guess if the opponent is ok with it, i should allow the points, but i think it sends a bad precident and i worry about one team claiming this same type of thing latter in the year when teams are fighting for playoff spots and another team ok's it to help the other team make the playoffs.Should i allow the points?

I say no you don't allow the points. It's not your job or the sites job to enter a starting lineup. Why does his oppenent suffer due to the lack of managing one's team? Regardless, of where the site places a newly acquired players, its' the responsibility of all owners to run their own team. Especially, when this happened on a Saturday and there was plenty of time. CBS sportsline places the player where the old player would have been. I would explain to him that it's his job to run his team. Not yours, the sites or anyone elses for that matter.

 

[TxBuckeye]

Very bad idea to credit him with the win. It's his job to set his own lineup. How much effort does it take to check your lineup???

 

[TommyGilmore]

Both owners agree that the Titans D should be in the starting lineup. What's the problem here? DO THE RIGHT THING.

 

[Nitty Ninjas]

Agree with compone, he does not deserve the points. He should manage his team and know the rules. Is he a rookie GM? If not, even more so he has no excuses. Plus, you have no record of the supposed email he sent you, so again, that feels fishy to me as well.

He just loses, and he needs to learn from his lesson...

Nitty

 

[thebestupsman]

Since he did the transaction on Saturday night and he only had one DEF, I would give him the points. Sometimes in my CBS league, if I drop a player that was active and pick up another it puts him in my starting lineup.

 

[burd]

here's the situation: An owner picked up the titans defense on saturday night and dropped his other defense. On sunday, his titans d was on the bench and he didn't have another defense. if the titans were in the starting lineup, this owner would have won. this guy just sent me an email saying that when he picked up the titans d and dropped other defense, the FF site automatically made the Titans his starting defense because he didn't have another defense. (im pretty sure that any addition: pickup, trade, etc goes to the bench until you activate the player). second, he didn't find out about the titans being on the bench until after the game started and says he sent me an email on Sunday at 4pm ... I didn't receive an email from him as he claims. but here's the dillemma ... his opponent believes that he meant to start the titans defense (and i do too) and it seems like the opponent is ok w/ me crediting the losing team w/ the points that would've been earned from the titans d, eventhough it'll mean that he loses. i mean, i guess if the opponent is ok with it, i should allow the points, but i think it sends a bad precident and i worry about one team claiming this same type of thing latter in the year when teams are fighting for playoff spots and another team ok's it to help the other team make the playoffs.Should i allow the points?

I say no you don't allow the points. It's not your job or the sites job to enter a starting lineup. Why does his oppenent suffer due to the lack of managing one's team? Regardless, of where the site places a newly acquired players, its' the responsibility of all owners to run their own team. Especially, when this happened on a Saturday and there was plenty of time. CBS sportsline places the player where the old player would have been. I would explain to him that it's his job to run his team. Not yours, the sites or anyone elses for that matter.

Ah ... that helps to explain his mix-up. My league is on AOL, which places players on the bench when they're picked up. This guy is also in a CBS sportsline league, which accoring to you puts the picked up player in the place of the old team. So i'm willing to bet that he assumed that AOL would put the defense in the place of his old defense and never bothered checking it out.

 

[Dirk Digler]

ask for proof of the alleged e-mail. If it was sent, give him the points. My bet is that it was never sent in which case, sorry charlie.

 

[JoeSteeler]

I would say no email=no points

 

[H.K.]

What do your league by-laws say? If this is covered, follow the letter of the law. If it isn't covered already, then explain the situation to the league and put it to a league vote. Majority rules. Owner who did not submit the line-up can not vote....he caused the problem and that should eliminate him from having any input because if he did the right thing to start with, there would not be an issue.

Make sure that you put something in by-laws that line-ups submitted by deadline will be what are used in the future. No exceptions.

Good luck.

 

[SuperJohn96]

It may sound like the right thing to do, but you will be opening up a can of worms by setting some precedents here:

1) Other owner has to agree to the change. It should be the rules or the commish that makes the hard decision, not the opposing owner. It puts it all on him, and some owners will think he's a doush for not allowing a change, and some will think he's a doush for allowing the change.

2) Allows other owners a window to make changes after the fact

Bottom line is, and it sucks in cases like this, but the owner is the one responsible to put in his lineup each week.

Years ago before I was using MFL, I had the guys email or call me with their lineups. Some guy claimed he emailed me his lineup before gametime but I never got his email, and I did before. He #####ed and moaned, but I had no choice but to keep in his lineup from the previous week (as per our rules). I couldn't leave it up to me to make a judgement call. He knew my phone number. He could have put in a preliminary lineup like I always do (just in case).

He could have done a lot of things other than wait till the last minute to get in his lineup (perpetual offender) and he could have saved us both the aggravation.

The thing is I believed him, but I just couldn't do it, and I wasn't going to ask the other owner to give up a win because I think the other owner is telling the truth about his lineup.

It sucks, but you can't set a bad precedent here.

 

[GregR_2]

If it were me, I think this is how I'd have handled it.

I'd have asked the opponent (without letting the owner in question know I was asking him) if he was ok with the guy getting the Titans D. Keep that fact a secret so you don't put the pressure on the other owner. If he is ok with the owner being given the Titans points, then do it. Since you already have his approval, I'd do.

Second is I'd set clearer guidelines as to how this kind of thing should be handled. Let the league know that, "Since we didn't have explicit rules handling it and since the opponent was ok with it, we're inserting the D on this occassion. Henceforth however this issue will be handled as follows..." And then I'd make the following clear.

1. The website does not automatically insert players for you. You are responsible for your lineup.

2. Any "important" communications like this should go out to the ENTIRE LEAGUE, or at the very least to both the commish and their opponent. This reduces the risk of the communication not going through, and also provides the opponent with verification it actually was sent on time, to remove any doubts he may have. Email works, as do league message boards.

3. It's up to the owner to verify the message got through in time. Send the email with delivery receipt enabled so you get a mail back when it is received. If the deadline is approaching and you haven't gotten the receipt back, call the commish and the opponent, and/or make a post on the league message board.

 

[BroadwayG]

I wouldn't allow the point. I don't reward stupidity.

 

[jagerbomb]

I think this could go either way.

If you do decide to give the titans owner the win, I would run it by the rest of the league first. The win or the points could could affect playoff seeding and potentially put someone out of the playoffs at the end of the year. It's best to get the buy-in now so that they can't complain at the end of the year.

One option is to say that the titans points won't count for playoff tiebreak purposes, but this complicates things even more and doesn't change the fact that the win could change playoff seeding.

Also keep in mind that you've set the precedent for one mulligan for everyone else.

 

[Paddy O'Seanessy]

here's the situation: An owner picked up the titans defense on saturday night and dropped his other defense. On sunday, his titans d was on the bench and he didn't have another defense. if the titans were in the starting lineup, this owner would have won. this guy just sent me an email saying that when he picked up the titans d and dropped other defense, the FF site automatically made the Titans his starting defense because he didn't have another defense. (im pretty sure that any addition: pickup, trade, etc goes to the bench until you activate the player). second, he didn't find out about the titans being on the bench until after the game started and says he sent me an email on Sunday at 4pm ... I didn't receive an email from him as he claims. but here's the dillemma ... his opponent believes that he meant to start the titans defense (and i do too) and it seems like the opponent is ok w/ me crediting the losing team w/ the points that would've been earned from the titans d, eventhough it'll mean that he loses. i mean, i guess if the opponent is ok with it, i should allow the points, but i think it sends a bad precident and i worry about one team claiming this same type of thing latter in the year when teams are fighting for playoff spots and another team ok's it to help the other team make the playoffs.Should i allow the points?

I, IMHO, think the bad precedent is being shackled by the automation. FF management systems are to make our lives easier not to take them over. We need to be clear and strict about our league rules but not slaves to software. Fix the lineup and realize that some management of the management software is part of your life as commissioner.

 

[Swampy]

I would say no email=no points

Exactly

 

[SayWhat?]

Not allowing points for the Titans D = dumb

There may very well be situations where you say "tough luck," but this isn't one of them IMO. Pretty obvious with only one defense what he intended to do, and his opponent is in agreement. Put the Titans in and move on.

 

[compone]

If it were me, I think this is how I'd have handled it.I'd have asked the opponent (without letting the owner in question know I was asking him) if he was ok with the guy getting the Titans D. Keep that fact a secret so you don't put the pressure on the other owner. If he is ok with the owner being given the Titans points, then do it. Since you already have his approval, I'd do.Second is I'd set clearer guidelines as to how this kind of thing should be handled. Let the league know that, "Since we didn't have explicit rules handling it and since the opponent was ok with it, we're inserting the D on this occassion. Henceforth however this issue will be handled as follows..." And then I'd make the following clear.1. The website does not automatically insert players for you. You are responsible for your lineup.2. Any "important" communications like this should go out to the ENTIRE LEAGUE, or at the very least to both the commish and their opponent. This reduces the risk of the communication not going through, and also provides the opponent with verification it actually was sent on time, to remove any doubts he may have. Email works, as do league message boards.3. It's up to the owner to verify the message got through in time. Send the email with delivery receipt enabled so you get a mail back when it is received. If the deadline is approaching and you haven't gotten the receipt back, call the commish and the opponent, and/or make a post on the league message board.

I disagree with allowing 1 owner (opposing owner) to decide the fate of this game. At this point nobody knows if this could effect the outcome of maybe the divisional standings, the playoff race or whatever. This owner may think he's morally doing the right thing, but who cares... Morally, owners should take care of their own team and I would consider this a deadbeat owner issue. IMO you can't award points to someone who didn't take care of THEIR OWN team. I don't care if the opponent agrees! You can't award someone points for laziness and I agree you're opening a can of worms by allowing someone to enter a starting lineup after the fact. Who's to say that this owner was going to pickup a new defense and enter that defense and leave the Titans on the bench. There's no proof of anything. I suppose with an email in YOUR 'in box' then I would make a change, but nothing short of that. Again, it's that owners responsibility to run the team.

 

[burd]

the more i learn about this, the more i think the losing owner is trying to scam his way into a win. sure, he meant to start the Titans Defense and im sure that he thought the Titans defense was starting for him.

But i have serious doubts about his claim that he saw that the site put the Titans as his starting defense, when in my experience, i've seen the site put the added player on the bench. Not only that, one of the other posters mentioned that CBS puts added players in the starting spot when the dropped player has vacated a starting spot. This guy has been in a CBS league for years and I'm 99% positive that he thought the Titans would go to the starting lineup just like it does on his CBS league.

I'm sure that the owner who is ok with losing isn't aware of the fact that the reason for this issue is probably that the losing owner didn't double check his lineup and probably believes the story about the website starting and then de-starting the Titans defense.

 

[SSOG]

Both owners agree that the Titans D should be in the starting lineup. What's the problem here? DO THE RIGHT THING.

I agree. It'd be one thing if he had another defense, but he only has one defense on his entire team, and he needs to start a defense to field a legal lineup. Call it the "no duh" rule, if it makes you feel better- if you only have one player at a position where you need to start one player, it's assumed that you're starting the only player you have rather than submitting an illegal lineup.

 

[smcindoe]

Go ahead and credit the points if both owners are OK with it.

BUT... take the opportunity to remind the league about taking responsibility for their own lineups and to clarify the rules. If you frame it as "I'm doing this once, but consider it a warning to everyone and I won't do it again" then you don't have to worry about abuse down the line.

 

[Carl Spackler]

Since he did the transaction on Saturday night and he only had one DEF, I would give him the points. Sometimes in my CBS league, if I drop a player that was active and pick up another it puts him in my starting lineup.

Sometimes cbs does and sometimes they don't. The intent was obvious.He should get the points, no question about it.

 

[Carl Spackler]

Not allowing points for the Titans D = dumbThere may very well be situations where you say "tough luck," but this isn't one of them IMO. Pretty obvious with only one defense what he intended to do, and his opponent is in agreement. Put the Titans in and move on.

Another Too many guys in here are making a mountain out of a mole hill here. The guy picked up a defense, he only HAS one Defense. He thought the website would automatically add it to his starting lineup. Give him the points, lesson learned, now move on.Man, some of you guys are something else. And yes I commish 2 leagues, and you have to be reasonable not a stupid hardliner in obvious situations.

 

[Krewe]

Go ahead and credit the points if both owners are OK with it.BUT... take the opportunity to remind the league about taking responsibility for their own lineups and to clarify the rules. If you frame it as "I'm doing this once, but consider it a warning to everyone and I won't do it again" then you don't have to worry about abuse down the line.

face it...crap happens in FFB but I have handled it similar as Commish in the ast and it's best to use this an example for the other teams.

 

[Resident A]

Give him the points.

Fantasy Football mirrors real football. No NFL team would forget to put it's Defense on the field due to a website. If he has a D on his roster, he starts it.

Your website is just a means to enter your lineups, not the end-all/be-all of your league. LOL at you dorks who play like this: "he had an illegal lineup because he didn't start enough players, I should win on a technicality..."

 

[428143]

Not allowing points for the Titans D = dumbThere may very well be situations where you say "tough luck," but this isn't one of them IMO. Pretty obvious with only one defense what he intended to do, and his opponent is in agreement. Put the Titans in and move on.

 

[Nemesis]

Not allowing points for the Titans D = dumb

There may very well be situations where you say "tough luck," but this isn't one of them IMO. Pretty obvious with only one defense what he intended to do, and his opponent is in agreement. Put the Titans in and move on.

Another Too many guys in here are making a mountain out of a mole hill here. The guy picked up a defense, he only HAS one Defense. He thought the website would automatically add it to his starting lineup.

Give him the points, lesson learned, now move on.

Man, some of you guys are something else. And yes I commish 2 leagues, and you have to be reasonable not a stupid hardliner in obvious situations.

Also, for those saying "produce the email"..................the email doesn't matter as ATL @ TEN was a Sun 1pm game and the email was supposedly sent at 4pm (which the game would have been in the 4th qtr). I'd give him the points and tell him why, but I'd also seriously doubt that email was ever sent and I'd let that owner know that I didn't appreciate him trying to give me some "story" to try to validate or improve his case.

Another suggestion: At every draft that I'm commissioner, I hold up my cell phone and say: THIS IS MY CELL PHONE #.......SAVE IT IN YOUR CELL PHONE AND USE IT IF YOU HAVE A PROBLEM..... the moment you know you have a problem. I can't help you as well if you sit on the problem and THEN try to contact me after the fact. I also tell them "the website is down" is not a valid excuse....you can always call me.

But in this particular case, I'd insert TEN def b/c that was the clear cut intention of what he was attempting to do.

 

[Phurfur]

here's the situation: An owner picked up the titans defense on saturday night and dropped his other defense. On sunday, his titans d was on the bench and he didn't have another defense. if the titans were in the starting lineup, this owner would have won. this guy just sent me an email saying that when he picked up the titans d and dropped other defense, the FF site automatically made the Titans his starting defense because he didn't have another defense. (im pretty sure that any addition: pickup, trade, etc goes to the bench until you activate the player). second, he didn't find out about the titans being on the bench until after the game started and says he sent me an email on Sunday at 4pm ... I didn't receive an email from him as he claims. but here's the dillemma ... his opponent believes that he meant to start the titans defense (and i do too) and it seems like the opponent is ok w/ me crediting the losing team w/ the points that would've been earned from the titans d, eventhough it'll mean that he loses. i mean, i guess if the opponent is ok with it, i should allow the points, but i think it sends a bad precident and i worry about one team claiming this same type of thing latter in the year when teams are fighting for playoff spots and another team ok's it to help the other team make the playoffs.Should i allow the points?

No way he gets the points! He screwed up and didn't check his lineup. Even if the other owner is OK with this, this game has an impact on the whole league. If you give him these points it will come back and haunt you. This guy is a baby for even bringing this up.

 

[ukshane]

I would say no email=no points

"....No Ticky....No Laundry."