Commish's headache...playoff seeding HELP ! (1 Viewer)

[ahill84006]

I need your guys help !!

In my league we have three teams with the same record fighting for the last two playoff spots.

The kicker here is the tie breaking system.

We use head to head match-ups as tie breakers. however, they way our league is set up, you do not play every team. There is always one team you do not play each year.

Here is how it breaks down:

All three teams are 7-6.

Team 1 beat Team 2, but lost to Team 3.

Team 2 beat Team 3 twice, but lost to Team 1.

Team 3 lost to Team 2 twice, but beat Team 1.

Any suggestions on who gets in?? I need some help !!

 

[Sarnoff]

Post the full rules as written.

 

[FavreCo]

With no H-to-H sweep, as is your case, we move on to the next tie-breaker. We use this one from the NFL.

http://www.nfl.com/standings/tiebreakingprocedures

3 teams for wild card spots.

Head-to-head sweep. (Applicable only if one club has defeated each of the others or if one club has lost to each of the others.)

 

[Doug B]

We use head to head match-ups as tie breakers. however, they way our league is set up, you do not play every team.

Simple and fair rule that you can adopt: only use head-to-head to separate two teams, but never three or more. With three or more, go straight to the next tie-breaker (highest total points, highest points allowed, or whatever).EDIT: :X to what FavreCo posted.

 

[ahill84006]

We really dont have any rules posted for playoff tie breakers. We have never had this problem before. It really never crossed my mind. I guess that is my fault.

Here is what we have in our league bylaws:

F. RESULTS & STANDINGS

o Each team's score is computed according to the point values above. The team in a given game which accumulates the most points wins.

o Wins, losses and ties are recorded in season standings and form the basis of determining which teams qualify for the playoffs (see playoffs, below).

o Teams will be ranked within their division based on the following criteria:

1. Overall Winning Percentage

2. Head-to-Head Games Played (2 teams only)

3. Division Winning Percentage

4. Most points for, season to date

5. Virtual Coin flip

G. PLAYOFFS

# Six (6) of the twelve (12) teams in the league make the playoffs.

# Each division leader (3) automatically makes the playoffs, regardless of record.

# Of the remaining teams, the three teams with the best records from the other divisions also make the playoffs. The 6 teams that do not make the playoffs, will enter what we will call the "Toilet Bowl". These teams will play for the right to have the No. 1 pick overall in the next years draft.

# See LIVE DRAFT section for draft positions for next year.

 

[ahill84006]

We use head to head match-ups as tie breakers. however, they way our league is set up, you do not play every team.

Simple and fair rule that you can adopt: only use head-to-head to separate two teams, but never three or more. With three or more, go straight to the next tie-breaker (highest total points, highest points allowed, or whatever).EDIT: :X to what FavreCo posted.

I agree....We are looking to use points scored or use the Power Rankings as a tie breaker NEXT year. But I really need a solution for this year....

 

[Doug B]

Teams will be ranked within their division based on the following criteria:

1. Overall Winning Percentage

2. Head-to-Head Games Played (2 teams only)

3. Division Winning Percentage

4. Most points for, season to date

5. Virtual Coin flip

This can suffice as your overall tie-breaker rules, too. There is precedent....

If you're really stuck, and you have owners threatening to quit and such, you CAN have a three-way playoff game in FFB. Whichever of these three teams scores the most in Week 14 advances.

 

[ahill84006]

Teams will be ranked within their division based on the following criteria:

1. Overall Winning Percentage

2. Head-to-Head Games Played (2 teams only)

3. Division Winning Percentage

4. Most points for, season to date

5. Virtual Coin flip

This can suffice as your overall tie-breaker rules, too. There is precedent....

If you're really stuck, and you have owners threatening to quit and such, you CAN have a three-way playoff game in FFB. Whichever of these three teams scores the most in Week 14 advances.

Our playoffs start next week. :X

 

[FavreCo]

We really dont have any rules posted for playoff tie breakers. We have never had this problem before. It really never crossed my mind. I guess that is my fault.

Here is what we have in our league bylaws:

F. RESULTS & STANDINGS

o Each team's score is computed according to the point values above. The team in a given game which accumulates the most points wins.

o Wins, losses and ties are recorded in season standings and form the basis of determining which teams qualify for the playoffs (see playoffs, below).

o Teams will be ranked within their division based on the following criteria:

1. Overall Winning Percentage

2. Head-to-Head Games Played (2 teams only)

3. Division Winning Percentage

4. Most points for, season to date

5. Virtual Coin flip

G. PLAYOFFS

# Six (6) of the twelve (12) teams in the league make the playoffs.

# Each division leader (3) automatically makes the playoffs, regardless of record.

# Of the remaining teams, the three teams with the best records from the other divisions also make the playoffs. The 6 teams that do not make the playoffs, will enter what we will call the "Toilet Bowl". These teams will play for the right to have the No. 1 pick overall in the next years draft.

# See LIVE DRAFT section for draft positions for next year.

In your scenario, I beleive this should be used. H-to-H is out and if they are all not in the same divison, that one is out, so the next tie-breaker is starter points.

 

[Doug B]

But I really need a solution for this year....

Three teams enter, one team leaves. Despite the smilie, the idea is not proposed in jest.

 

[FavreCo]

Teams will be ranked within their division based on the following criteria:

1. Overall Winning Percentage

2. Head-to-Head Games Played (2 teams only)

3. Division Winning Percentage

4. Most points for, season to date

5. Virtual Coin flip

This can suffice as your overall tie-breaker rules, too. There is precedent....

If you're really stuck, and you have owners threatening to quit and such, you CAN have a three-way playoff game in FFB. Whichever of these three teams scores the most in Week 14 advances.

This would be a fair solution also.

 

[Doug B]

Our playoffs start next week.

Is this coming weekend -- December 10-14, Week 14 of the NFL season -- the end of a 14-game regular season for your league? Is it a total "off" week for all teams? Or is it the first weekend of playoff competition?

 

[Koya]

Why leagues don't go to total points as the first (or at LEAST second) tie break, I dont know.

The chances of tying for total points after 13 weeks are so minor, and it is by far the best way to judge the "better team" - far better than if, say, I beat another team and get the H2H tiebreak because they had three guys on bye that one week.

 

[ahill84006]

Our playoffs start next week.

Is this coming weekend -- December 10-14, Week 14 of the NFL season -- the end of a 14-game regular season for your league? Is it a total "off" week for all teams? Or is it the first weekend of playoff competition?

We play a 13 week regular season, and start playoffs in Week 14. This usually insures our league that no NFL teams that have the playoffs locked up will be without their starters.

 

[Righetti]

Three teams enter, 1 team leaves.

I like this

 

[Doug B]

Our playoffs start next week.

OK, now I understand why you are unsure. Here's my response:So what? One of your league's first-round playoff games will be a three-way battle instead of a head-to-head tilt. But why not? It's unconventional, sure ... but totally fair, as all three teams have a shot at advancing.Keep in mind I proposed that if you're in a pickle due to lack of rule clarity, or due to troublesome owners who won't listen to reason, or something like that. Really, your divisional tiebreakers should just be applied globally.

 

[ahill84006]

I'm starting to like the 3-way battle. I would just need to figure out how to advance the teams to WK 15.

I guess the team who score the most points is the #5 seed in the regular playoffs, next highest 6th seed, and least points scored is # 1 in Toilet Bowl.

???

 

[Doug B]

I'm starting to like the 3-way battle. I would just need to figure out how to advance the teams to WK 15.I guess the team who score the most points is the #5 seed in the regular playoffs, next highest 6th seed, and least points scored is # 1 in Toilet Bowl.???

If you get agreement from your #3 and #4 seeded teams, you could even have a 5-way first round of the playoffs. Those teams didn't get byes, anyway.Seriously, how come you just don't employ the divisional tie-breakers? Are some of the owners being difficult about all this? Is huge money on the line, and it really is worth it for owners to raise a stink?

 

[ahill84006]

No one is raising a stink...................yet. Our first place gets $350, 2nd $125, and 3rd $50. So I guess, it depends on what you consider huge money.

I just want it to be the fairest way possible.

 

[Doug B]

I'm starting to like the 3-way battle. I would just need to figure out how to advance the teams to WK 15.

I guess the team who score the most points is the #5 seed in the regular playoffs, next highest 6th seed, and least points scored is # 1 in Toilet Bowl.

Here's how I was thinking your seeding would have to work:Seed 1 BYE

Seed 2 BYE

Seed 3 vs Seed 6 vs Seed 7 (highest points advances)

Seed 4 vs Seed 5 (Seed 5 determined by Total Points)

If that's unfair to Seed 3, then you might have to go with the 5-way first round:

Seed 3 vs Seed 4 vs Seed 5 vs Seed 6 vs Seed 7 (two highest point totals advance)

You could also see if Seeds 3 & 4 would agree to face each other in the first round:

Seed 3 vs Seed 4

Seed 5 vs Seed 6 vs Seed 7 (highest points advances)

 

[Doug B]

No one is raising a stink...................yet.

You're pretty sure employing the divisional tie-breakers will cause complaining and pouting? If not, why reject total points out of hand? That's totally fair, smoothing right over issues such as "weak divisions" or "bye-week influence on mid-season HTH matchups."

 

[DenverBuc]

Teams will be ranked within their division based on the following criteria:

1. Overall Winning Percentage

2. Head-to-Head Games Played (2 teams only)

3. Division Winning Percentage

4. Most points for, season to date

5. Virtual Coin flip

This can suffice as your overall tie-breaker rules, too. There is precedent....

If you're really stuck, and you have owners threatening to quit and such, you CAN have a three-way playoff game in FFB. Whichever of these three teams scores the most in Week 14 advances.

This would be a fair solution also.

Why is "total points for" not the right option here? Threatening to quit over such a fair measure seems asinine to me. What can they argue -- "If I KNEW total ponts scored was going to be a tie breaker then I would have started different people..."? Really?My league uses H2H (with a very specifically worded Head to Head unless more than two teams are tied and split H2H), Division (if they are in the same division only), total points for, coin flip.

 

[FavreCo]

Why leagues don't go to total points as the first (or at LEAST second) tie break, I dont know.The chances of tying for total points after 13 weeks are so minor, and it is by far the best way to judge the "better team" - far better than if, say, I beat another team and get the H2H tiebreak because they had three guys on bye that one week.

This is truly the best way. I too hate h-to-h as the 1st one because of bye weeks for that reason.

 

[Pickle Rody]

Teams will be ranked within their division based on the following criteria:

1. Overall Winning Percentage

2. Head-to-Head Games Played (2 teams only)

3. Division Winning Percentage

4. Most points for, season to date

5. Virtual Coin flip

This is your answer.In my league, the standings tiebreakers and the playoffs seeding tiebreakers are the same. Why have a separate set of criteria for the playoffs?

 

[FavreCo]

Why is "total points for" not the right option here? Threatening to quit over such a fair measure seems asinine to me. What can they argue -- "If I KNEW total ponts scored was going to be a tie breaker then I would have started different people..."? Really?My league uses H2H (with a very specifically worded Head to Head unless more than two teams are tied and split H2H), Division (if they are in the same division only), total points for, coin flip.

Only because they haven't written it in stone. Yes, the better team is the one with more points in my view but the fair way is all 3 duke it out.

 

[mike9289]

Are all the teams in different divisions? If 2 of the 3 tied teams are in the same division, then break the division tie as per your rules; same as the NFL does it.

 

[Dbbr]

The point of the playoffs obviously is to reward your best teams. If more than 2 teams are tied, the easiest tie breaker is to go to the highest total points for the season.

 

[Twilight]

The 3 way battle in the playoffs is IMMENSELY unfair to the teams already in the playofs. Instead of playing just one team they have to play 3 essentially. Doesn't work.

The best way was mentioned just above. Those 3 teams can't be in the same division. So first compare the teams in division, and the winner against the other team. Playoff spot 1. Then compare the 2 remaining teams. Playoff spot 2.

 

[Sam Quentin]

get rid of h2h tiebreakers

it's ridiculous

 

[Longhorn daddy]

This dude was totally right.

Ho hum. This guy tried to warn everyone, the haters owe this dude an apology.

 

[Crazy8s]

Are any of the 7-6 teams in the same division? If so, you need to break that tie first...then move onto the next team!

All three teams are 7-6.

Team 1 beat Team 2, but lost to Team 3.

Team 2 beat Team 3 twice, but lost to Team 1.

Team 3 lost to Team 2 twice, but beat Team 1.

My guess is that team 2 and 3 are in the same division...if so, than team 2 advances over team 3. So the last 2 spots go to teams 1 and 2

team 1 as the 5th seed

team 2 as the 6th seed

team 3, out of the playoffs.

 

[Crazy8s]

What was the outcome?

 

[PoolShark]

You go to division winning %, even if the teams arent in the same division.

I think thats a lousy decision, but thats what the rules say. PS... Make better rules for next year...

 

[Novice2]

2. Head-to-Head Games Played (2 teams only)

What seems to be the problem? Two teams only to any reasonable person would mean if 3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10 other teams are tied the h2h tiebreak is skipped.