Common Core Education Standards (1 Viewer)

[Hooper31]

So everyone in Dearborn should just know enough to work at Ford?

Of course not. No one is arguing that.

 

[RCon]

What if a particular locality decides that their children should all become farmers and therefore decides not to provide them with any education other than what they need for farming?

What if? Has this ever happened? Do you have a reasonable belief that it will happen given the opportunity? I don't think there's a reasonable chance that this is possible.

However, if a community was to provide opportunities to specialize in specific trades/occupations would this be a problem? I don't think so. I think it would be wonderful if public schools had the ability to offer curriculum designed around a local economy.

That strikes me as unfair to the kids who are deliberately being denied opportunities to make choices about how they want to live their lives. That seems far less likely to happen on a federal level than on a local level.

Again, I don't think this is even remotely possible, but I will play along... Unfair to kids? Is it unfair to a kid for a parent to dictate what religion they will be introduced to? What if the kid doesn't want to be a Buddhist?

Yeah, my hypo isn't completely far-fetched -- it was based on a Supreme Court case from the 1970s involving Amish people. The Amish said that their kids would be better off if they could quit school in the 8th grade, because by then they knew more than enough to live the Amish lifestyle. Here's a wiki link about the case: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wisconsin_v._Yoder I could see something similar happening in other close-knit religious or ethnic communities.

I've thought about the case a lot since reading about it in law school. I'm still not sure what the right outcome is. Every child is at least somewhat limited in his opportunities by the choices made by his parents and communities. There are no top-level violinists in the world that first started playing violin as an adult. With that said, I sorta feel like the state needs to step in if parents or a local community are denying children too many opportunities. I don't think we should sit idly by and let kids learn creationism in school just because that is what their parents want. I don't know, these are tough questions.

They are tough questions. That's a very good argument against the federal government attempting to answer them.

 

[Buckfast 1]

It has been days since I first asked which specific aspirational Common Core standards people were opposed to. The only answer I've received involves a basic geometric principle. That's pretty sad.

You are so far out of your element here its beyond discussion. You have no idea what "basic" is with regard to geometry.

EDIT to add the specific question:

For any Triangle ABC, prove that c^2 = a^2 + b^2 - 2abCos©

Look, I know that this particular standard is an aspirational goal for high school students. I took trig and learned the Law of Sines/Cosines while I was in 8th grade. We're not exactly talking about differential calculus here.

I have no doubt that there will be a certain subset of students who will never learn or understand the Law of Sines/Cosines. That will be true no matter how low or how high you set the educational standards. But that shouldn't stop our public schools from aspiring to teach our high school students basic principles of trigonometry. I don't care if only 1% or less of the local student population will ever go on to directly use trigonometry in college or during their careers, it would nonetheless be an injustice for educators to deny students the opportunity to learn trigonometry and, therefore, effectively limit the college/career path of its student population by catering to the lowest common denominator. Nationwide educational standards may be useful because they help ensure that, during the course of their compulsory education, most students are at least being exposed to a broad set of educational principles that were deemed to be important by a panel of educators across the nation. Sure, anyone can quibble with whether a particular standard is truly necessary in the curriculum, such as Law of Sines/Cosines, but you are really missing the bigger picture if that is one of your primary concerns about Common Core.

 

[Officer Pete Malloy]

You know what?

#### Trig.

 

[Lutherman2112]

Please note the (+) following the math standard. This denotes mathematical mastery of necessary skills prior to address this standard for the high school student. This standard is not for every student.

Hence the discussion. Should it be included? Where do we draw the line and who gets to decide? I'm of the opinion that we have the wrong groups of people making those decisions.

Who decides your school district's curriculum? That's your answer.

My state adopted Common Core in 2010. my school district's three public high schools all have multi-track education plans. My daughter selected post-secondary ed route, and she will be taking Trig in prep for CALC A/B.

Would a student prepping for a hospitality career need to prove the law of sines? Doubtful. The Vo-Tech student interested in CAD? Probably.

In the future, the most rigorous standards will not always apply to each student.

 

[fatguyinalittlecoat]

You know what?

#### Trig.

I'm expecting a very hostile Sarah Palin tweet any moment.

 

[Hooper31]

you are really missing the bigger picture if that is one of your primary concerns about Common Core.

Not at all. I don't have a problem with standards. I have a problem with determining responsibility.

Who should be responsible for determining what is or isn't a high school graduate?

Who should be responsible for assessing?

Who is bearing the cost of assessment?

Who should be responsible for holding schools accountable?

I'm of the opinion that all these should be the responsibility of local school districts.

 

[Hooper31]

You know what?

#### Trig.

Nobody like math. This was established long ago.

 

[msommer]

So everyone in Dearborn should just know enough to work at Ford?

Of course not. No one is arguing that.

But you would agree that such a course of action to be possible if standards are set at local level?

What is the downside of federally supported standards in your mind?

Who, other than the people who developed Common Core (who may or may not be federal employees), should set the standards for education and for how many pupils should they be set by any one group of standard setters?

 

[Slapdash]

Yeah, my hypo isn't completely far-fetched -- it was based on a Supreme Court case from the 1970s involving Amish people. The Amish said that their kids would be better off if they could quit school in the 8th grade, because by then they knew more than enough to live the Amish lifestyle. Here's a wiki link about the case: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wisconsin_v._Yoder I could see something similar happening in other close-knit religious or ethnic communities.

Why shouldn't this be addressed by making a requirment that kids go to school till a certain age instead of mandating the ciriculum?

 

[Hooper31]

But you would agree that such a course of action to be possible if standards are set at local level?

No. That situation has already existed and didn't happen.

What is the downside of federally supported standards in your mind?

It assumes that one size fits all for every community across the country. That just isn't the case.

Who, other than the people who developed Common Core (who may or may not be federal employees), should set the standards for education and for how many pupils should they be set by any one group of standard setters?

Elected school boards.

 

[fatguyinalittlecoat]

Yeah, my hypo isn't completely far-fetched -- it was based on a Supreme Court case from the 1970s involving Amish people. The Amish said that their kids would be better off if they could quit school in the 8th grade, because by then they knew more than enough to live the Amish lifestyle. Here's a wiki link about the case: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wisconsin_v._Yoder I could see something similar happening in other close-knit religious or ethnic communities.

Why shouldn't this be addressed by making a requirment that kids go to school till a certain age instead of mandating the ciriculum?

Hopefully analogies are part of the common core.

The Supreme Court case was about compulsory education. My hypo was about curriculum.

 

[msommer]

But you would agree that such a course of action to be possible if standards are set at local level?

No. That situation has already existed and didn't happen.

What is the downside of federally supported standards in your mind?

It assumes that one size fits all for every community across the country. That just isn't the case.

Who, other than the people who developed Common Core (who may or may not be federal employees), should set the standards for education and for how many pupils should they be set by any one group of standard setters?

Elected school boards.

Would you want to have any guidelines for these school boards or should they be left to set any standards they choose?

 

[Psychopav]

You know what?

#### Trig.

Nobody like math. This was established long ago.

Hey, pal. They don't speak ENGLISH in Cairo. But they do math. It's the universal language. It's the language with which God wrote the universe. If it weren't for math, we'd all be walking to work or riding domesticated boars.

 

[Psychopav]

It has been days since I first asked which specific aspirational Common Core standards people were opposed to. The only answer I've received involves a basic geometric principle. That's pretty sad.

You are so far out of your element here its beyond discussion. You have no idea what "basic" is with regard to geometry.

EDIT to add the specific question:

For any Triangle ABC, prove that c^2 = a^2 + b^2 - 2abCos©

Look, I know that this particular standard is an aspirational goal for high school students. I took trig and learned the Law of Sines/Cosines while I was in 8th grade. We're not exactly talking about differential calculus here.

You learned the law in 8th grade but did you master the proof?

 

[msommer]

You know what?

#### Trig.

Nobody like math. This was established long ago.

Hey, pal. They don't speak ENGLISH in Cairo. But they do math. It's the universal language. It's the language with which God wrote the universe. If it weren't for math, we'd all be walking to work or riding domesticated boars dinosaurs.

Fixed your post for you

 

[Buckfast 1]

you are really missing the bigger picture if that is one of your primary concerns about Common Core.

Not at all. I don't have a problem with standards. I have a problem with determining responsibility.Who should be responsible for determining what is or isn't a high school graduate?

Who should be responsible for assessing?

Who is bearing the cost of assessment?

Who should be responsible for holding schools accountable?

I'm of the opinion that all these should be the responsibility of local school districts.

Well then, you should rest easy knowing that all of those things are, in fact, the responsibility of state and/or local school districts under Common Core. The federal government did not play any role in developing the Common Core standards, nor do they play any role in their implementation.

 

[Hooper31]

Would you want to have any guidelines for these school boards or should they be left to set any standards they choose?

IMO local school boards should be left to set standards as they choose. I get where you're coming from. i'm guessing you think schools are failing and need to be held accountable. I disagree. I think schools have flourished. The popular thing is to yell, scream, and stress that schools are in complete collapse. IMO it isn't true.

I've spent a career witnessing great things. Students today have a wealth of opportunities that they didn't have when I started teaching. Here's more evidence that I'm not against standards. I've been teaching AP classes for most of my career. This year I'm teaching both AP Calculus and AP Statistics. The college board sets the standards. Students pay to take a test. The college board assesses students and rewards them with college credit. I don't think the college board is perfect, but I think they provide a fantastic opportunity to students. The locally elected board members in the district I teach fully support the AP program. We didn't need someone in Olympia (our state capital) or Washington DC to tell us to do this. We did it because we wanted to do it.

 

[RCon]

you are really missing the bigger picture if that is one of your primary concerns about Common Core.

Not at all. I don't have a problem with standards. I have a problem with determining responsibility.Who should be responsible for determining what is or isn't a high school graduate?

Who should be responsible for assessing?

Who is bearing the cost of assessment?

Who should be responsible for holding schools accountable?

I'm of the opinion that all these should be the responsibility of local school districts.

Well then, you should rest easy knowing that all of those things are, in fact, the responsibility of state and/or local school districts under Common Core. The federal government did not play any role in developing the Common Core standards, nor do they play any role in their implementation.

What role does the federal government play, then?

 

[Slapdash]

Yeah, my hypo isn't completely far-fetched -- it was based on a Supreme Court case from the 1970s involving Amish people. The Amish said that their kids would be better off if they could quit school in the 8th grade, because by then they knew more than enough to live the Amish lifestyle. Here's a wiki link about the case: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wisconsin_v._Yoder I could see something similar happening in other close-knit religious or ethnic communities.

Yeah, my hypo isn't completely far-fetched -- it was based on a Supreme Court case from the 1970s involving Amish people. The Amish said that their kids would be better off if they could quit school in the 8th grade, because by then they knew more than enough to live the Amish lifestyle. Here's a wiki link about the case: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wisconsin_v._Yoder I could see something similar happening in other close-knit religious or ethnic communities.

Why shouldn't this be addressed by making a requirment that kids go to school till a certain age instead of mandating the ciriculum?

Hopefully analogies are part of the common core.

The Supreme Court case was about compulsory education. My hypo was about curriculum.

Why shouldn't this be addressed by making a requirment that kids go to school till a certain age instead of mandating the ciriculum?

Hopefully analogies are part of the common core.

The Supreme Court case was about compulsory education. My hypo was about curriculum.

Didn't have a chance to click through earlier. I think the case about curriculum is much less stronger than compulsory.

 

[igbomb]

But you would agree that such a course of action to be possible if standards are set at local level?

No. That situation has already existed and didn't happen.

What is the downside of federally supported standards in your mind?

It assumes that one size fits all for every community across the country. That just isn't the case.

Who, other than the people who developed Common Core (who may or may not be federal employees), should set the standards for education and for how many pupils should they be set by any one group of standard setters?

Elected school boards.

I don't think this is demonstrably true when it comes to basic core standards. I think there is a far greater risk that a local community underserves their kids in terms of curriculum than there is that this standard somehow limits our ability to cater to community uniqueness, if left to their own devices.

I've yet to hear anything that suggests that we are better off setting curriculums at a local level other than a general distaste for federal oversight. I understand the position, but I just don't share it.

 

[Captain Quinoa]

But that shouldn't stop our public schools from aspiring to teach our high school students basic principles of trigonometry. I don't care if only 1% or less of the local student population will ever go on to directly use trigonometry in college or during their careers, it would nonetheless be an injustice for educators to deny students the opportunity to learn trigonometry and, therefore, effectively limit the college/career path of its student population by catering to the lowest common denominator. Nationwide educational standards may be useful because they help ensure that, during the course of their compulsory education, most students are at least being exposed to a broad set of educational principles that were deemed to be important by a panel of educators across the nation.

Are there places where students are being denied access to Trigonometry?

 

[Hooper31]

I don't think this is demonstrably true when it comes to basic core standards.

Basic is a completely subjective term. I get the feeling that people throw it around like its objective, but it isn't.

 

[Brony]

But you would agree that such a course of action to be possible if standards are set at local level?

No. That situation has already existed and didn't happen.

What is the downside of federally supported standards in your mind?

It assumes that one size fits all for every community across the country. That just isn't the case.

Who, other than the people who developed Common Core (who may or may not be federal employees), should set the standards for education and for how many pupils should they be set by any one group of standard setters?

Elected school boards.

I don't think this is demonstrably true when it comes to basic core standards. I think there is a far greater risk that a local community underserves their kids in terms of curriculum than there is that this standard somehow limits our ability to cater to community uniqueness, if left to their own devices.

I've yet to hear anything that suggests that we are better off setting curriculums at a local level other than a general distaste for federal oversight. I understand the position, but I just don't share it.

I also understand the pros/cons of the national vs. local argument, but allowing these insane debates happen at 22,000 high schools just seems like a much huger waste of resources than setting them at a national level. I don't know how college admissions boards or employers would begin to assess 20,000+ different curriculums and standards.

 

[dozer]

A carpenter can't do his or her job without understanding pythagorean theorem. Good luck pitching that roof or building that staircase with out it.

 

[Buckfast 1]

But that shouldn't stop our public schools from aspiring to teach our high school students basic principles of trigonometry. I don't care if only 1% or less of the local student population will ever go on to directly use trigonometry in college or during their careers, it would nonetheless be an injustice for educators to deny students the opportunity to learn trigonometry and, therefore, effectively limit the college/career path of its student population by catering to the lowest common denominator. Nationwide educational standards may be useful because they help ensure that, during the course of their compulsory education, most students are at least being exposed to a broad set of educational principles that were deemed to be important by a panel of educators across the nation.

Are there places where students are being denied access to Trigonometry?

I don't know the answer to that question with regard to trigonometry specifically. I just used that example since it was the particular Common Core standard we were discussing. However, I would think that it would be a pretty safe bet that there are public high schools in the country who were not aspiring to teach all of the topics outlined in the Common Core standards.

 

[Slapdash]

But that shouldn't stop our public schools from aspiring to teach our high school students basic principles of trigonometry. I don't care if only 1% or less of the local student population will ever go on to directly use trigonometry in college or during their careers, it would nonetheless be an injustice for educators to deny students the opportunity to learn trigonometry and, therefore, effectively limit the college/career path of its student population by catering to the lowest common denominator. Nationwide educational standards may be useful because they help ensure that, during the course of their compulsory education, most students are at least being exposed to a broad set of educational principles that were deemed to be important by a panel of educators across the nation.

Are there places where students are being denied access to Trigonometry?

I wish I had gotten to go to school there.

 

[Hooper31]

I also understand the pros/cons of the national vs. local argument, but allowing these insane debates happen at 22,000 high schools just seems like a much huger waste of resources than setting them at a national level. I don't know how college admissions boards or employers would begin to assess 20,000+ different curriculums and standards.

And yet somehow, they are currently doing it. Maybe because 20,000+ different curriculums and standards is a myth? Are you be surprised to learn that a geometry class in New York looks like a geometry class in Nevada?

 

[Hooper31]

However, I would think that it would be a pretty safe bet that there are public high schools in the country who were not aspiring to teach all of the topics outlined in the Common Core standards.

Good luck finding one.

 

[TheIronSheik]

Maybe we should add some trigonometry to the Pledge of Allegiance.

 

[Officer Pete Malloy]

Maybe we should add some trigonometry to the Pledge of Allegiance.

That would piss me off more than that "under God" thing.

 

[Ilov80s]

Here is a good read for those that want to better understand why there is a backlash beyond the "keep the Feds out of education." It is from Notre Dame:

http://whatiscommoncore.wordpress.com/2013/09/07/notre-dame-conference-address-of-dr-sandra-stotsky-common-cores-invalid-validation-committee/

Add to that these tests will be used to evaluate in teachers in most states despite the fact the basic fact that they are not designed to do such. There is no scientific research group out there that has shown any validation that student test scores can be used as a reliable measure of teacher quality. It is advised against. This is pseudo science.

 

[Captain Quinoa]

But that shouldn't stop our public schools from aspiring to teach our high school students basic principles of trigonometry. I don't care if only 1% or less of the local student population will ever go on to directly use trigonometry in college or during their careers, it would nonetheless be an injustice for educators to deny students the opportunity to learn trigonometry and, therefore, effectively limit the college/career path of its student population by catering to the lowest common denominator. Nationwide educational standards may be useful because they help ensure that, during the course of their compulsory education, most students are at least being exposed to a broad set of educational principles that were deemed to be important by a panel of educators across the nation.

Are there places where students are being denied access to Trigonometry?

I wish I had gotten to go to school there.

My daughter is a HS freshman. I don't know if trig is a requirement but I'm definitely advising her not to take it if she doesn't have to.

 

[Ilov80s]

But that shouldn't stop our public schools from aspiring to teach our high school students basic principles of trigonometry. I don't care if only 1% or less of the local student population will ever go on to directly use trigonometry in college or during their careers, it would nonetheless be an injustice for educators to deny students the opportunity to learn trigonometry and, therefore, effectively limit the college/career path of its student population by catering to the lowest common denominator. Nationwide educational standards may be useful because they help ensure that, during the course of their compulsory education, most students are at least being exposed to a broad set of educational principles that were deemed to be important by a panel of educators across the nation.

Are there places where students are being denied access to Trigonometry?

I wish I had gotten to go to school there.

My daughter is a HS freshman. I don't know if trig is a requirement but I'm definitely advising her not to take it if she doesn't have to.

Most schools in MI embed it into Alg 2 and if is required.

 

[Prince Myshkin]

The federal government is dumbing down the level of education, not raising it up.

This assumes all school districts across the country are they same. For some districts we're setting up a standard that will be impossible to meet. For others they're already operating at a level far above those standards.

As a teacher with 10+ years experience, I can assure you that the common core standards are not "dumbed down". I can't imagine that there are many districts across the country with more rigorous standards in place already. Maybe some of the standards, but across the board? If districts were performing at a higher level before common core, they have no reason to now come down to new standards. They can simply keep doing what they were doing and they will be just fine when it comes assessment time.

And again, common core standards were NOT developed by the federal government, nor were they forced upon any states to adopt.

If you're 10+ years add some form of weight to your opinion, what do my 20+ years add to mine?

I don't think they're dumbed down, and I didn't say that I thought so. I pointed out that in specific districts (Bellevue, Mercer Island, Issaquah in WA state) they are well above the curve. Students in these districts are almost all taking 100% AP courses during their senior years. I agree this is the exception, not the rule.

20+ years definitely add some weight to your opinion. I think there are MANY in here stating opinions with very little knowledge of what they are speaking.

For instance, the bunk about "teaching to the test" and "rote memorization"...I'll bet every extra cent I have that there is less rote memorization going on in schools today than at any point in last 100 years of public education (and I'm not saying that's necessarily a good thing).

 

[Prince Myshkin]

Here is a good read for those that want to better understand why there is a backlash beyond the "keep the Feds out of education." It is from Notre Dame:

http://whatiscommoncore.wordpress.com/2013/09/07/notre-dame-conference-address-of-dr-sandra-stotsky-common-cores-invalid-validation-committee/

Add to that these tests will be used to evaluate in teachers in most states despite the fact the basic fact that they are not designed to do such. There is no scientific research group out there that has shown any validation that student test scores can be used as a reliable measure of teacher quality. It is advised against. This is pseudo science.

That's not from Notre Dame...it's from one person giving a lecture at a conference at Notre Dame held by "The American Principles Project" (sounds like an unbiased source to me).

And her main cause for complaint is that the common core standards switch the focus from literature to non-fiction/informational text. Then the authors of common core had the audacity to ignore her particular feedback about that point, and so therefore the standards are invalid and ANY test measuring them would be invalid by default.

 

[Ilov80s]

Here is a good read for those that want to better understand why there is a backlash beyond the "keep the Feds out of education." It is from Notre Dame:

http://whatiscommoncore.wordpress.com/2013/09/07/notre-dame-conference-address-of-dr-sandra-stotsky-common-cores-invalid-validation-committee/

Add to that these tests will be used to evaluate in teachers in most states despite the fact the basic fact that they are not designed to do such. There is no scientific research group out there that has shown any validation that student test scores can be used as a reliable measure of teacher quality. It is advised against. This is pseudo science.

That's not from Notre Dame...it's from one person giving a lecture at a conference at Notre Dame held by "The American Principles Project" (sounds like an unbiased source to me). And her main cause for complaint is that the common core standards switch the focus from literature to non-fiction/informational text. Then the authors of common core had the audacity to ignore her particular feedback about that point, and so therefore the standards are invalid and ANY test measuring them would be invalid by default.

You are right, she is from U of Arkansas speaking at ND.However, I took more from her paper then people didnt listen to her. For example she claims the people that actually wrote the English standards had no experience teaching English at any level nor any notable research inb the area. Her point is that the educators involved weren't really actually allowed to fully contribute- they were mostly invited so that it could be said educators were involved. The group sponsoring the event certainly does seem to have a "right wing" affiliation. However, the speaker knows more about standards than any of us and was a part of the review process for Common Core. She was not just a random professor asking to have her input heard. Again, maybe just propaganda, but I found it informative. Like everything though, it is certainly not gospel.

 

[Prince Myshkin]

Here is a good read for those that want to better understand why there is a backlash beyond the "keep the Feds out of education." It is from Notre Dame:

http://whatiscommoncore.wordpress.com/2013/09/07/notre-dame-conference-address-of-dr-sandra-stotsky-common-cores-invalid-validation-committee/

Add to that these tests will be used to evaluate in teachers in most states despite the fact the basic fact that they are not designed to do such. There is no scientific research group out there that has shown any validation that student test scores can be used as a reliable measure of teacher quality. It is advised against. This is pseudo science.

That's not from Notre Dame...it's from one person giving a lecture at a conference at Notre Dame held by "The American Principles Project" (sounds like an unbiased source to me). And her main cause for complaint is that the common core standards switch the focus from literature to non-fiction/informational text. Then the authors of common core had the audacity to ignore her particular feedback about that point, and so therefore the standards are invalid and ANY test measuring them would be invalid by default.

You are right, she is from U of Arkansas speaking at ND.However, I took more from her paper then people didnt listen to her. For example she claims the people that actually wrote the English standards had no experience teaching English at any level nor any notable research inb the area. Her point is that the educators involved weren't really actually allowed to fully contribute- they were mostly invited so that it could be said educators were involved. The group sponsoring the event certainly does seem to have a "right wing" affiliation. However, the speaker knows more about standards than any of us and was a part of the review process for Common Core. She was not just a random professor asking to have her input heard. Again, maybe just propaganda, but I found it informative. Like everything though, it is certainly not gospel.

I was part of the review process as well, along with 1000's of teachers across the country. To say that classroom teachers were not allowed to contribute on the writing team is asinine.

 

[Ilov80s]

Here is a good read for those that want to better understand why there is a backlash beyond the "keep the Feds out of education." It is from Notre Dame:

http://whatiscommoncore.wordpress.com/2013/09/07/notre-dame-conference-address-of-dr-sandra-stotsky-common-cores-invalid-validation-committee/

Add to that these tests will be used to evaluate in teachers in most states despite the fact the basic fact that they are not designed to do such. There is no scientific research group out there that has shown any validation that student test scores can be used as a reliable measure of teacher quality. It is advised against. This is pseudo science.

That's not from Notre Dame...it's from one person giving a lecture at a conference at Notre Dame held by "The American Principles Project" (sounds like an unbiased source to me). And her main cause for complaint is that the common core standards switch the focus from literature to non-fiction/informational text. Then the authors of common core had the audacity to ignore her particular feedback about that point, and so therefore the standards are invalid and ANY test measuring them would be invalid by default.

You are right, she is from U of Arkansas speaking at ND.However, I took more from her paper then people didnt listen to her. For example she claims the people that actually wrote the English standards had no experience teaching English at any level nor any notable research inb the area. Her point is that the educators involved weren't really actually allowed to fully contribute- they were mostly invited so that it could be said educators were involved. The group sponsoring the event certainly does seem to have a "right wing" affiliation. However, the speaker knows more about standards than any of us and was a part of the review process for Common Core. She was not just a random professor asking to have her input heard. Again, maybe just propaganda, but I found it informative. Like everything though, it is certainly not gospel.

I was part of the review process as well, along with 1000's of teachers across the country. To say that classroom teachers were not allowed to contribute on the writing team is asinine.

I would love to hear more about the process.

 

[Officer Pete Malloy]

No state testing for California this year...probably, sorta.

After debating the relative merits and drawbacks of standardized testing, the Assembly on Wednesday sent Gov. Jerry Brown legislation allowing California schools to opt out of current statewide assessments.

California has been preparing to implement tests aligned to new national Common Core standards, but late bill amendments broadened the number of schools that can drop the current Standardized Testing and Reporting so teachers would not teach to new standards while old tests loom.

Brown has backed Assembly Bill 484 despite warnings from U.S. Secretary of Education Arne Duncan that the bill sidesteps California's obligations to gauge the performance of schools and educators through year-to-year test score comparisons. Critics of the bill articulated similar concerns on the Assembly floor.

"Is testing for teacher accountability, or is it for feedback?" asked Assemblywoman Kristin Olsen, R-Modesto, vice chair of the Assembly Education Committee.

"Californians want testing," she added, "but Assembly Bill 484 guts testing by eliminating it."

Lawmakers backing the bill said it would help California transition into a new framework for classroom instruction and testing.

"The train has left the station," said Assemblyman Rocky Chavez, R-Oceanside. "Common Core is here. The teachers are out there doing it."


Read more here: http://blogs.sacbee.com/capitolalertlatest/2013/09/california-legislature-sends-school-test-bill-to-jerry-brown.html#storylink=cpy

:stillers:

 

[The_Man]

You kind of snipped my point, which is that the very existence of standardized tests and the basing of funding on those tests is what dumbs down education. Instead of teaching actual thinking and thought processes, teachers are forced to teach rote memorization and "teach to the test".

The not so "unintended consequences" of the right's demand for "accountability" with education funding.

You and I both live in Maryland - which is a very Democratic state - so even though I'm a liberal, I don't fault the right alone for the terrible falloff in educational quality I've seen between my older son's experience and that of his 5-years-younger sister.

I live in a great school district. Parental involvement, 99% of kids passing the Maryland School Assessment annual standardized test, etc. And yet now school for my 5th grade daughter is about almost nothing but test prep. Double-length class periods in Math and Language Arts every day because those are the only two tested subjects; Science and Social Studies are held in alternating quarters, because there isn't enough time in the day to cover them both with the double-long periods in subjects being tested. Music and art also alternate by quarter.

Homework is worksheets drilling them in the techniques needed to pass the MSA. They hardly read at all in Language Arts, they break down words into prefixes and suffixes, and then write them multiple times. Teachers and principals alike are evaluated on pretty much nothing other than standardized test passage rates. As a result, they spend all day, every day, making sure their students will pass those tests. Once they know you can pass? Sit over there and do a worksheet, or read quietly, while we work with the kids who aren't yet able to pass.

I wish there were a way to measure if a kid is learning as much as he should be, not just whether they are now past some arbitrary point. Is the dumb kid catching up? Is the the smart kid learning more, or just stagnating? We moved our son to private school for high school last year; we'll be hitting the open house market in a few weeks to look at middle schools for our daughter. I want them to be in a school where they are challenged to think, and write, and analyze, not force-fed with standardized test taking practice.

 

[Ilov80s]

Interesting note I found at work today that relates to the concept of how can you judge schools beyond test scores. 40% of out our district parents don't have a high school diploma. 9% have a college degree. 80% of out students graduate, 91% of them are attending college. Our test scores are average, but the idea that we are really a part of this generational transformation in education in very positive IMO.

 

[Hooper31]

I don't fault the right alone for the terrible falloff in educational quality I've seen between my older son's experience and that of his 5-years-younger sister.

Schools have had a terrible falloff.

I live in a great school district.

Just not in your district.

This sounds a lot like people complaining about congress. Sure, we all know congress sucks, but its not my elected official.

 

[igbomb]

I don't fault the right alone for the terrible falloff in educational quality I've seen between my older son's experience and that of his 5-years-younger sister.

Schools have had a terrible falloff.

I live in a great school district.

Just not in your district.

This sounds a lot like people complaining about congress. Sure, we all know congress sucks, but its not my elected official.

His two comments aren't mutually exclusive. You can have a great school district that has degraded.

 

[Hooper31]

His two comments aren't mutually exclusive. You can have a great school district that has degraded.

He didn't say degraded. You did. He said it had a "terrible falloff", but is currently still a great school district. Those two phrases don't really mesh.

 

[igbomb]

His two comments aren't mutually exclusive. You can have a great school district that has degraded.

He didn't say degraded. You did. He said it had a "terrible falloff", but is currently still a great school district. Those two phrases don't really mesh.

Parse much?

Maybe he means that it is a great district by sites like greatschools.org. Maybe he means that it was great but is getting worse. Who cares? You're focusing on his usage of words when his broader point is that he has observed that their school is focusing on test prep at the expense of other subjects.

 

[The_Man]

I don't fault the right alone for the terrible falloff in educational quality I've seen between my older son's experience and that of his 5-years-younger sister.

Schools have had a terrible falloff.

I live in a great school district.

Just not in your district.

This sounds a lot like people complaining about congress. Sure, we all know congress sucks, but its not my elected official.

Maybe I can help with your "reading for context" scores.

Which of the following best describes the author's point?

1. I live in what is ostensibly considered a "great" school district based on measures like standardized test scores. My experience is that the education it offered was once very good, but now is borderline remedial because of its increasing focus on students' standardized test scores, instead of their learning.

2. Many schools have had a terrible falloff, but mine is still great.

 

[Hooper31]

Maybe I can help with your "reading for context" scores.

No problem. No need to be condescending. If my post was offensive I apologize.

Which of the following best describes the author's point?

1. I live in what is ostensibly considered a "great" school district based on measures like standardized test scores. My experience is that the education it offered was once very good, but now is borderline remedial because of its increasing focus on students' standardized test scores, instead of their learning.

2. Many schools have had a terrible falloff, but mine is still great.

Thanks for clarifying. I didn't understand. I speculated. Apparently I was wrong.

 

[shader]

Found out we have a meeting on Monday for parents regarding the implementation of Common Core next year. Happy to see a 5 page thread on FBG about it! Sad to see that the thread is basically 5 pages of garbage and little information on exactly what Common Core is going to mean for my child.

After the meeting, I'll report back with some basics. To me, it seems expensive for many school districts, as it appears they are going to totally change how they teach. Can't imagine teachers at happy with it either. But if it does a better job of teaching reading, writing and arithmetic, then I'm all for it.

 

[johnnycakes]

Found out we have a meeting on Monday for parents regarding the implementation of Common Core next year. Happy to see a 5 page thread on FBG about it! Sad to see that the thread is basically 5 pages of garbage and little information on exactly what Common Core is going to mean for my child.

After the meeting, I'll report back with some basics. To me, it seems expensive for many school districts, as it appears they are going to totally change how they teach. Can't imagine teachers at happy with it either. But if it does a better job of teaching reading, writing and arithmetic, then I'm all for it.

At the heart of the debate is the whole states rights issue, no getting around that.