Conceivably ... will we ever see a "perfect" pass-run QB? (1 Viewer)

[Doug B]

Athletically, could a single person possess or develop EXACTLY these traits?

1) the pocket passing acumen of a Peyton Manning

2) the defense-reading & game smarts of Chad Pennington

3) the escapability and pure running ability of Michael Vick in his prime

Or is it a case where being elite in one trait leads to over-reliance on that one trait, so that the other traits don't get sufficiently developed?

The closest I can think of in real life to this triple-threat ideal was Steve Young. So basically take Young, and amplify all his abilities.

 

[Breesisdaman]

Athletically, could a single person possess or develop EXACTLY these traits?1) the pocket passing acumen of a Peyton Manning2) the defense-reading & game smarts of Chad Pennington3) the escapability and pure running ability of Michael Vick in his primeOr is it a case where being elite in one trait leads to over-reliance on that one trait, so that the other traits don't get sufficiently developed?The closest I can think of in real life to this triple-threat ideal was Steve Young. So basically take Young, and amplify all his abilities.

Steve Young was pretty close IMO

 

[trader jake]

You already mentioned him in the OP. Steve Young was that guy already. Someone could be a bit better in each area but to expect Manning's pocket passing with Mike Vick's running ability doesn't seem realistic. If a young player has one of those traits they probably will not develop the other to that all-world level.

 

[finito]

Vince Young?

 

[pizzatyme]

Who's to say that combination is the "perfect" combo? I see no need to improve on Manning. There is risk in being a running QB IMO.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

Steve Young

Randall Cunningham?

 

[Doug B]

Someone could be a bit better in each area but to expect Manning's pocket passing with Mike Vick's running ability doesn't seem realistic. If a young player has one of those traits they probably will not develop the other to that all-world level.

One possible way it could play out is if a one-in-a-million athlete was just naturally gifted with quicks and escapability. Didn't really have to work on it at all, it just came naturally. However, this same player could potentially, with very rare Jordan-like discipline and drive, gradually develop elite pocket passing skills.Two more guys that are in the discussion, but did not approach the ideal as closely as Steve Young: young Randall Cunningham (only an OK passer back then) & young John Elway (not a great passer yet).

 

[travdogg]

Cunningham before he blew out his knee in 91'(or was it 92') was well on his way to being this player. If the Eagles had any other skill position talent whatsoever at the time, he would have been unstoppable.

Steve Young is a pretty accurate model for this type of QB.

Also, do we really need trait 2? Does Pennington really do that better than Manning? Doesn't pocket passing acumen and defense reading kinda go hand in hand?

 

[JMJ]

Athletically, could a single person possess or develop EXACTLY these traits?

1) the pocket passing acumen of a Peyton Manning

2) the defense-reading & game smarts of Chad Pennington

3) the escapability and pure running ability of Michael Vick in his prime

Or is it a case where being elite in one trait leads to over-reliance on that one trait, so that the other traits don't get sufficiently developed?

The closest I can think of in real life to this triple-threat ideal was Steve Young. So basically take Young, and amplify all his abilities.

 

[Doug B]

Who's to say that combination is the "perfect" combo? I see no need to improve on Manning. There is risk in being a running QB IMO.

True ... but the idea is to be so good at the escapability part that you're not getting blown up all the time. So a big NO to the Tim-Tebow skill set.

 

[Buffaloes]

Steve YoungRandall Cunningham?

Cunningham doesn't get near the respect he should IMO.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

Athletically, could a single person possess or develop EXACTLY these traits?

1) the pocket passing acumen of a Peyton Manning

2) the defense-reading & game smarts of Chad Pennington

3) the escapability and pure running ability of Michael Vick in his prime

Or is it a case where being elite in one trait leads to over-reliance on that one trait, so that the other traits don't get sufficiently developed?

The closest I can think of in real life to this triple-threat ideal was Steve Young. So basically take Young, and amplify all his abilities.

Yeah I know like Chad can read a defense better and has more game smarts than Peyton or Brady or even Brees LOL

 

[Doug B]

2) the defense-reading & game smarts of Chad Pennington

That's based on reputation ... it's been said a lot that Pennington has all the mental tools in spades, but doesn't have the physical tools (arm strength, health).

 

[ditka...mike ditka]

You guys are missing the obvious...This was Kordell Stewart...ha

 

[Wilbur Wood]

While the "raw ingredients" for such an uber-QB can exist, I doubt we'll ever see it. All of these raw skills must be honed (much less so Vick's skill) and developed in multiple reps and game situations. It becomes mutually exclusive to be able to garner the same level of pocket presence/awareness that Manning has evolved to if you've taken off an legged it with your Vick skills b/c there was an opening for the 1st down.

Should add a 4th ingredient for a QB - Toughness.

 

[Doug B]

Yeah I know like Chad can read a defense better and has more game smarts than Peyton or Brady or even Brees LOL

The idea was that Pennington has that one strength, but is deficient in the other two.I couldn't think of a great pocket passer who couldn't read a defense

 

[Chaka]

Yes.

But I don't want to show off.

 

[FavreCo]

Yes. But I don't want to show off.

Steve Young is as close as it gets but if you can do #1 & 2, then you don't need #3. Those excelling at #3 do so becasue they are incapable of mastering #1 and #2.

 

[drew726]

The problem with finding this QB is that if they can read defenses so well and have the arm to make every pass, than they never need to run. If I had to pick, I'd say Steve Young though.

 

[Doug B]

Steve Young is as close as it gets but if you can do #1 & 2, then you don't need #3. Those excelling at #3 do so becasue they are incapable of mastering #1 and #2.

Yes, but what about a "natural" at #3? Never worked on the running, just worked on the passing and film study ... relentlessly. Yet the high-level running abililty was always there.

 

[Weapon of Mass Instruction]

Perfect? No. But close, maybe. I think we are moving a little toward this combo type QB with some of the offensive evolution (Tebow, spread, wildcat, etc).

One day, one of these Tebow/LeFevour guys will do it all. I'm actually really interested to see what LeFevour actually does.

 

[TheDirtyWord]

Ben Roethlisberger?

Sounds odd, but his escapability is awfully impressive even if it lacks the excitability of Vick's. I think we're seeing a guy whose become an offensive centerpiece this year from a pure production standpoint (73% Completion Rate, 294 YPG) and as he continues to build up his resume, his game acumen will only improve.

The problem with Big Ben is that he takes such a pounding, will he last. But he IMO is awfully good.

 

[footballnerd]

McNabb on a good day.

 

[thatguy]

Yes. But I don't want to show off.

 

[Ray_T]

Athletically, could a single person possess or develop EXACTLY these traits?1) the pocket passing acumen of a Peyton Manning2) the defense-reading & game smarts of Chad Pennington3) the escapability and pure running ability of Michael Vick in his primeOr is it a case where being elite in one trait leads to over-reliance on that one trait, so that the other traits don't get sufficiently developed?The closest I can think of in real life to this triple-threat ideal was Steve Young. So basically take Young, and amplify all his abilities.

Steve Young was pretty close IMO

McNabb was close there for a year or two as well.problem with this type of player is that any QB who runs the ball a lot is prone to injury due to the extra wear & tear on the body.

 

[thatguy]

Who was it that was so high on Terrell Pryor coming into the season? He seemed to think that Pryor would eventually become "this guy".

 

[Biabreakable]

Ben Roethlisberger?Sounds odd, but his escapability is awfully impressive even if it lacks the excitability of Vick's. I think we're seeing a guy whose become an offensive centerpiece this year from a pure production standpoint (73% Completion Rate, 294 YPG) and as he continues to build up his resume, his game acumen will only improve.The problem with Big Ben is that he takes such a pounding, will he last. But he IMO is awfully good.

Agreed.And the Vikings had respect for Cunningham. He led one of our teams to a 15-1 season. Also Warren Moon but he was not a mobile QB.Steve McNair was very good when healthy. He just was not often fully healthy. So yeah toughness matters. Which brings me to another guy who has not yet been mentioned.Brett Favre.

 

[ATC1]

Yes.

But I don't want to show off.

Steve Young is as close as it gets but if you can do #1 & 2, then you don't need #3. Those excelling at #3 do so becasue they are incapable of mastering #1 and #2.

I guess the guys can do it all realize they can last longer with trait 1 and 2.
Then of course there is Jesus....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qKUABxhWGQA&feature=fvw

 

[Fodasme69]

Ben Roethlisberger?

Sounds odd, but his escapability is awfully impressive even if it lacks the excitability of Vick's. I think we're seeing a guy whose become an offensive centerpiece this year from a pure production standpoint (73% Completion Rate, 294 YPG) and as he continues to build up his resume, his game acumen will only improve.

The problem with Big Ben is that he takes such a pounding, will he last. But he IMO is awfully good.

Agreed.And the Vikings had respect for Cunningham. He led one of our teams to a 15-1 season. Also Warren Moon but he was not a mobile QB.

Steve McNair was very good when healthy. He just was not often fully healthy. So yeah toughness matters. Which brings me to another guy who has not yet been mentioned.

Brett Favre.

Was about to post the same name

 

[Ray_T]

Ben Roethlisberger?Sounds odd, but his escapability is awfully impressive even if it lacks the excitability of Vick's. I think we're seeing a guy whose become an offensive centerpiece this year from a pure production standpoint (73% Completion Rate, 294 YPG) and as he continues to build up his resume, his game acumen will only improve.The problem with Big Ben is that he takes such a pounding, will he last. But he IMO is awfully good.

Agreed.And the Vikings had respect for Cunningham. He led one of our teams to a 15-1 season. Also Warren Moon but he was not a mobile QB.Steve McNair was very good when healthy. He just was not often fully healthy. So yeah toughness matters. Which brings me to another guy who has not yet been mentioned.Brett Favre.

Actually Warren Moon was a very mobile QB. During his days in the CFL he was known more as a running QB than a passing QB, and in the last year or two in the CFL his game changed (somewhat similar to how McNabbs game changed since he got hurt a few times) by the time he was an NFL starter, he was a drop back passer who only ran when he had to.but make no mistake about it.... the guy could run.

 

[PatsFanCT]

Archie Manning and Fran Tarkenton have been there, done that.

 

[Biabreakable]

Francis Tarkenton is another guy who was a dual threat.

 

[Biabreakable]

Ben Roethlisberger?Sounds odd, but his escapability is awfully impressive even if it lacks the excitability of Vick's. I think we're seeing a guy whose become an offensive centerpiece this year from a pure production standpoint (73% Completion Rate, 294 YPG) and as he continues to build up his resume, his game acumen will only improve.The problem with Big Ben is that he takes such a pounding, will he last. But he IMO is awfully good.

Agreed.And the Vikings had respect for Cunningham. He led one of our teams to a 15-1 season. Also Warren Moon but he was not a mobile QB.Steve McNair was very good when healthy. He just was not often fully healthy. So yeah toughness matters. Which brings me to another guy who has not yet been mentioned.Brett Favre.

Actually Warren Moon was a very mobile QB. During his days in the CFL he was known more as a running QB than a passing QB, and in the last year or two in the CFL his game changed (somewhat similar to how McNabbs game changed since he got hurt a few times) by the time he was an NFL starter, he was a drop back passer who only ran when he had to.but make no mistake about it.... the guy could run.

Thanks for the info. I did not know that.Was always a fan of Moon when he was with the Oilers and then obviously when he came to the Vikings. He was like 40 years old starting for the Vikings. He did not run too much at such a ripe age.

 

[Da Guru]

McNabb does a pretty good job as a combo QB.

 

[MCguidance]

McNabb on a good day.

And only during regulation games.

 

[Buckfast 1]

Who was it that was so high on Terrell Pryor coming into the season? He seemed to think that Pryor would eventually become "this guy".

Tate Forcier has a much better chance of being "that guy" than Terrell Pryor.

 

[footballnerd]

Dante "Get Yo Roll On" Culpepper had a few good years runnin and gunnin.

 

[coolnerd]

Roger Staubach

 

[Arsenal of Doom]

Ben Roethlisberger?Sounds odd, but his escapability is awfully impressive even if it lacks the excitability of Vick's. I think we're seeing a guy whose become an offensive centerpiece this year from a pure production standpoint (73% Completion Rate, 294 YPG) and as he continues to build up his resume, his game acumen will only improve.The problem with Big Ben is that he takes such a pounding, will he last. But he IMO is awfully good.

Ben's running ability is more like Elway's IMO. He'll keep plays alive and can get you a big 5 or 10 yards at a key time, but both lacked the speed of a Young or Cunningham who could legitimately outrun DBs in their primes. FWIW, I think Young, Cunningham, and McNabb are the closest modern examples of this.

 

[Da Guru]

Who was it that was so high on Terrell Pryor coming into the season? He seemed to think that Pryor would eventually become "this guy".

Tate Forcier has a much better chance of being "that guy" than Terrell Pryor.

Neither one of those guys will play on Sunday..at least not at QB.

 

[ChrisCooleyFan]

Yes he's a freshman at MEEEEEEEECHIGAN

 

[Weapon of Mass Instruction]

Who was it that was so high on Terrell Pryor coming into the season? He seemed to think that Pryor would eventually become "this guy".

Tate Forcier has a much better chance of being "that guy" than Terrell Pryor.

Neither one of those guys will play on Sunday..at least not at QB.

LeFevour doesn't intrigue?

 

[ChrisCooleyFan]

Who was it that was so high on Terrell Pryor coming into the season? He seemed to think that Pryor would eventually become "this guy".

Tate Forcier has a much better chance of being "that guy" than Terrell Pryor.

Neither one of those guys will play on Sunday..at least not at QB.

LeFevour doesn't intrigue?

Colt Mccoy?

 

[lsutigers]

Two words, Ryan Perriloux.

For an added bonus, he also combines the off the field antics of PacMan Jones, Plaxico and Lawrence Phillips.

 

[ATC1]

Two words, Ryan Perriloux.For an added bonus, he also combines the off the field antics of PacMan Jones, Plaxico and Lawrence Phillips.

Reread trait #2.

 

[greggorymac]

Yes. You can currently watch him playing for the University of Washington. His name is Jake Locker.

 

[Doug B]

Two words, Ryan Perriloux.For an added bonus, he also combines the off the field antics of PacMan Jones, Plaxico and Lawrence Phillips.

Reread trait #2.

Yeah ... I was gonna say that Perriloux wasn't even close.

 

[theglorydays]

Athletically, could a single person possess or develop EXACTLY these traits?

1) the pocket passing acumen of a Peyton Manning

2) the defense-reading & game smarts of Chad Pennington

3) the escapability and pure running ability of Michael Vick in his prime

Or is it a case where being elite in one trait leads to over-reliance on that one trait, so that the other traits don't get sufficiently developed?

The closest I can think of in real life to this triple-threat ideal was Steve Young. So basically take Young, and amplify all his abilities.

Exactly, it will never happen not only because of the bolded reason you listed, but also because of the rarity of these type of players. Manning is a once in a generation type player and so is Vick when it comes to there respective strong suits. You will see guys like Mcnabb, Young, Tarkenton, Elway....but you will never see a guy that is as good as a running back in the open field and faster(Vick) and someone who is what every pocket passing quarterback should strive to be (Manning)

 

[ChrisCooleyFan]

Yes. You can currently watch him playing for the University of Washington. His name is Jake Locker.

He will follow Drew Henson

 

[eaglezzz]

Does Peyton have a son yet???? That kid will be taking snaps out of the womb