Contemplating Living Abroad for 2 Years with Wife and 2 Kids (1 Viewer)

[Gator Shawn]

Anyone have any experience picking up and moving to another country for a few years? Particularly where a spouse and kids are involved.

It's something I've always wanted to do and a recent health reality check is telling me that it will never get any easier to do it.

To be clear, I do not have an employer offering a position (and footing the bill), although I plan to explore that option with my current employer who maintains a gigantic global presence. I would likely be looking for a new job prior to going, but from what I've gathered it's not always required to have employment to get a residence visa.

Identified a few places based on my personal preferences and limited research on expat friendly nations. Principally Germany would be my target. I speak passable German and Germany's location in Europe makes it a nice home base for many of my bucket list items.

 

[T Bell]

So the point of this is ticking off as many of your bucket list items as possible?

 

[T Bell]

Also, I know this guy in Nicaragua who may know someone...

 

[None_More_Black]

Best friend did it at 30 but his employer paid for his housing in Ireland and lived in 1.2 million dollar townhouse. Doubt he would have done it without the subsidy, but if you are talking non-english countr,y without company support, and you are not rich, bad move.

 

[FattyVM]

black dot. (i thought of this for too long.)

 

[Maelstrom]

Since you work from home (still, right?) your current employer might actually be ok with it, the problem of course being the time difference, you'd have to figure out how to handle that. One of the guys I work with lives in Prague, and he works basically an afternoon shift for him so that he is available until about 3pm our time (which is about 11pm his time, I think).

Don't have any other advice, but I do encourage you to do it if you can work out the details. Seems like it would be extremely rewarding plus educational for your kids. Definitely give them a broader outlook on the world.

 

[DaVinci]

We're doing this right now. I got a job with the Marine Corps (as a civilian) on Okinawa. We've been here about 18 months, and it's been a good experience. The Marine Corps paid to fly us and ship our furniture & stuff over here. They also pay for our housing (which is $4,000-5,000 per month depending on the exchange rate). The Mrs and the kids got homesick after about 6 months, but they went back to the States for a month over the summer and that helped. The main downside here is that it's a small island. I'm trying to get a job with the Army Corps of Engineers in Germany, which like you said is a perfect home base for exploring Europe.

 

[DA RAIDERS]

if you can swing it, do it!

 

[Short Corner]

Employer moved us out on a three-year agreement to Germany (wife is German, son has dual citizenship.) Company went insolvent 18 months in. Will be 6 years at the end of March, we figure we are going to at least stick out until my son is done with school at this point.

Germany has become more strict with taking the language/integration requirements the last few years. I was lucky enough to fake my way thru it but they want the documentation now.

 

[DiStefano]

1. Cost of living will be much higher in Germany than in the US. That particularly refers to housing and transportation (gas at about $8 a gallon), but also food and clothing.

2. If your company doesn't offer tax equalization, taxes will be much higher.

Unless your company (or another) makes some adjustments in these areas, be prepared for a much lower standard of living; small apartment, pinching pennies.

 

[Hack022]

Hi,

I just relocated in early November to Dublin from Toronto with my wife and 2 girls as an expat. If I wasn't on an expat I doubt I would have considered this move as per the points DiStefano raises. That being said Dublin was near the top of my list of places I'd be willing to go(Almost ended up in Delhi India). Feel free to ask any questions you might have.

My personal opinion is that if you get the chance and enjoy new experiences then do it. Also don't sweat the little things as there will be many of them, keep the big picture in mind and it will help you through those early days.

Suggestions:

-Understand the schooling requirements and where you want to send the kids.

-If possible get a local(to where you're moving) company to help with the relo, specifically on school, government requirements/documents and real estate. I've talked to some expats who didn't have this and it seems like their moves were much more difficult than ours.

-Speak with your broker/FA and tax people in both countries. you need to understand the impacts of taxes in each locale and what it means. My move is for 2-3 years, which makes me a non-resident, this has significant impact on taxes I pay, old age pension calculations, capital gains(resident Vs non-resident) and other stuff, specifically as i do expect to return to Canada.

 

[El Floppo]

dot

 

[chet]

I moved to HK for 3 years when I was 10 for my dad's job. I loved it but my brother hated it.

Expat package made it doable.

 

[Gator Shawn]

So the point of this is ticking off as many of your bucket list items as possible?

I want to live outside the U.S. for a few years regardless, but my initial choice of destination is based on my bucket list.

 

[Gator Shawn]

Sounds like I need to exhaust every possibility of moving on a company dime. Not sure how much demands for US people there is in Germany. I doubt much. My uncle went over there for 3 years but that was an exchange type program with his German-based employer (Siemens).

 

[Gator Shawn]

It looks like I could very possibly arrange a 2-year assignment to a large technology center we have in Brno, Czech Republic. It's a pretty damn good location really. Decent city, low cost of living for Europe, tons of history.

 

[msommer]

I've lived in Hong Kong, the US and Brazil on expat contracts. Hack022 has a lot of good advice above.

Most places I know of won't give you a residency without a job. Crucial to think about your wife, because she will likely not have a job or a work permit to get one.

So if she is working today that might have a large impact on her self esteem (I say might, some expat wives love the hanging around doing the housewife thing, the shopping thing, then meet for tea and ##### about the locals). I've seen divorces happen on this account.

I've only been to the Czech republic once, and that was Prague so can't comment on Brno, except everything Prague has, it will likely have less of. Restaurants, cultural events, choices in the supermarket etc. As for lower cost base, that will be factored into your salary, don't worry.

Before signing know all there is to know about:

Housing budget, and availability (maybe you can look at Czech websites for rental flats/houses)

Transportation - company car? two cars needed? Public transportation an option?

Pension - implications

Tax

Schools: Is there an IB school in the place you live, failing that ANY English language school? Where is it located compared to your work and nice neighborhoods you can afford. Who pays for the school and can your kids get in?

Security: (Not that huge an issue, even in that part of Eastern Europe, if you were talking Africa or South America could be huge)

Cost of living

Be aware that there are many things you take for granted that you may not be able to get in where ever you go, so think about what you can live without

Networking is crucial, keeping your existing network going and expanding it

I am sure there are lots of things I have forgotten, anyway good luck!

 

[Henry Ford]

Shark move is definitely to leave the wife and kids at home.

 

[Gator Shawn]

It looks like I could very possibly arrange a 2-year assignment to a large technology center we have in Brno, Czech Republic. It's a pretty damn good location really. Decent city, low cost of living for Europe, tons of history.

The wimmenz are hotter there too.

Trust me, I am well aware of that. If I type "p" into chrome, the first site that comes up is Pornhub.

 

[Gator Shawn]

I've lived in Hong Kong, the US and Brazil on expat contracts. Hack022 has a lot of good advice above.

Most places I know of won't give you a residency without a job. Crucial to think about your wife, because she will likely not have a job or a work permit to get one.

So if she is working today that might have a large impact on her self esteem (I say might, some expat wives love the hanging around doing the housewife thing, the shopping thing, then meet for tea and ##### about the locals). I've seen divorces happen on this account.

I've only been to the Czech republic once, and that was Prague so can't comment on Brno, except everything Prague has, it will likely have less of. Restaurants, cultural events, choices in the supermarket etc. As for lower cost base, that will be factored into your salary, don't worry.

Before signing know all there is to know about:

Housing budget, and availability (maybe you can look at Czech websites for rental flats/houses)

Transportation - company car? two cars needed? Public transportation an option?

Pension - implications

Tax

Schools: Is there an IB school in the place you live, failing that ANY English language school? Where is it located compared to your work and nice neighborhoods you can afford. Who pays for the school and can your kids get in?

Security: (Not that huge an issue, even in that part of Eastern Europe, if you were talking Africa or South America could be huge)

Cost of living

Be aware that there are many things you take for granted that you may not be able to get in where ever you go, so think about what you can live without

Networking is crucial, keeping your existing network going and expanding it

I am sure there are lots of things I have forgotten, anyway good luck!

Thank you. We plan to do a lot of research before we go (if we go). I will keep all these points in mind.

 

[msommer]

Found this one as well http://thepraguething.wordpress.com/2012/11/08/33-things-ive-learnt-from-prague/

 

[Gator Shawn]

We're doing this right now. I got a job with the Marine Corps (as a civilian) on Okinawa. We've been here about 18 months, and it's been a good experience. The Marine Corps paid to fly us and ship our furniture & stuff over here. They also pay for our housing (which is $4,000-5,000 per month depending on the exchange rate). The Mrs and the kids got homesick after about 6 months, but they went back to the States for a month over the summer and that helped. The main downside here is that it's a small island. I'm trying to get a job with the Army Corps of Engineers in Germany, which like you said is a perfect home base for exploring Europe.

I lived on Camp Kinser for a year while I was in the Corps.

 

[Gator Shawn]

Found this one as well http://thepraguething.wordpress.com/2012/11/08/33-things-ive-learnt-from-prague/

Thanks. I've been reading through the forums here:

http://www.brnoexpats.com/

 

[Christo]

It's the best thing you could do for your kids.

 

[Texas Football]

I lived in Italy from 6-9 when my father was stationed there in the Army. Late '70's.

From my perspective I look back at it was an awesome experience. My brother and I spoke Italian better than English after a short time there. My sister was younger and doesn't really remember much. We lived off base and were in a rental next to a fully functional farming community.

I am trying to go back and see if I can find that same house and area again. Back then we were the only house in that hood that had indoor plumbing. We received a postcard maybe 5 years after my family were back in the states that our good neighbor friends had upgraded to indoor plumbing.

It really was a once in a life time thing.

Depending on the age of your kids I think they would be better people for spending some years outside of North America.

I am not sure I would go spend 3 years abroad at my age now(40) unless I had financial backing from an employer. But that is what vacation's are for.

 

[IC FBGCav]

So the point of this is ticking off as many of your bucket list items as possible?

I want to live outside the U.S. for a few years regardless, but my initial choice of destination is based on my bucket list.

Well, first thing is I hope this is not a you thing when you have a family.